kwsaint Posted 20 March, 2014 Share Posted 20 March, 2014 I know this comes up a lot but I'd quite like to see both sides of the debate. I get the idea that it will improve atmospheres at football stadia but also the counter argument that it will inevitably cause more unrest in the stands which is something I don't think anyone wants. So what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 20 March, 2014 Share Posted 20 March, 2014 I know this comes up a lot but I'd quite like to see both sides of the debate. I get the idea that it will improve atmospheres at football stadia but also the counter argument that it will inevitably cause more unrest in the stands which is something I don't think anyone wants. So what do you think? Most of the people I sit with couldn't stand for 90 minutes but can run like buggery when there is 5 minutes left to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon Saint Posted 20 March, 2014 Share Posted 20 March, 2014 Would love it if we could raise one tier and have a standing only section there. Sadly, I think it is a long way off from happening - especially when you get prats like Dion Dublin spouting absolute rubbish about it on Match of the Day. The very idea of it seems to reduce some to hysterics, so much so that it precludes any meaningful conversation about it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26098424 Clubs like Bristol City and Villa are obviously pushing quite hard for safe-standing, so there would need to be some sort of trial period before a 'family-friendly' club like ours considers installing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 20 March, 2014 Share Posted 20 March, 2014 It should be there for those who want it, terracing can be safe if managed correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 20 March, 2014 Share Posted 20 March, 2014 Would love it if we could raise one tier and have a standing only section there. Sadly, I think it is a long way off from happening - especially when you get prats like Dion Dublin spouting absolute rubbish about it on Match of the Day. The very idea of it seems to reduce some to hysterics, so much so that it precludes any meaningful conversation about it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26098424 Clubs like Bristol City and Villa are obviously pushing quite hard for safe-standing, so there would need to be some sort of trial period before a 'family-friendly' club like ours considers installing. That's because morons can't understand the difference between large, swaying crowds in huge open terraces, badly policed and stewarded to designated areas with your own space. Safe standing would effectively be exactly as it is now, without the seat. In fact in the areas like the Northam and the away end for certain visiting teams it'll probably be safer as there won't be any just below knee height seat to fall over during a celebration. Sadly whilst the police hold all the cards and football fans are treated like second class citizens you'll never be able to do inside a football stadium what 1000s do at rugby, cricket and concerts every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 20 March, 2014 Share Posted 20 March, 2014 A large section of the ground spends the whole game stood up anyway, myself included, so I really can't see any merit in the counter-arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 20 March, 2014 Share Posted 20 March, 2014 It is much safer than standing in seated areas which happens whether people like it or not. The arguments against safe standing are emotional - not logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 I haven't sat down all season and nothing unsafe has happened yet........................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 I would say Safe Standing is actually the safest way to watch football. Unless you can get people to remain seated at all times throughout the match then you have the potential for it to become unsafe. When everyone jumps up as a goal is scored or something controversial happens on the pitch, or if a fight was to breakout, then you have the potential for fans falling forwards over the people in front. You'll never get fans to remain seated when a goal goes in. If you have a designated standing space with a chest high barrier this can't happen. As someone said, the argument against is purely emotive, not logical. Everyone should have the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 Presumably Dion Dublin doesn't like leaving his house in the mornings. OMG, how do you know if today is going to be the day you get hit by lightning!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 That's because morons can't understand the difference between large, swaying crowds in huge open terraces, badly policed and stewarded to designated areas with your own space. Safe standing would effectively be exactly as it is now, without the seat. In fact in the areas like the Northam and the away end for certain visiting teams it'll probably be safer as there won't be any just below knee height seat to fall over during a celebration. Sadly whilst the police hold all the cards and football fans are treated like second class citizens you'll never be able to do inside a football stadium what 1000s do at rugby, cricket and concerts every week. Yep - making matches all-ticket with an allocated place has done far more to contribute to safety than the actual act of requiring people to sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 If they introduce barriers, how am i going to **** off the people two rown in front by landing on them when we score a massive goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 It is much safer than standing in seated areas which happens whether people like it or not. The arguments against safe standing are emotional - not logical. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 Seeing as the Taylor report which demanded the introduction of all-seater stadiums was based on what we now know to be a massive lie from South Yorkshire police, I fail to see how the regulation is still deemed lawful. Has anybody actually challenged this with the EU supreme court yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 There are areas of grounds where people are currently standing all game in seated areas which is unsafe. Therefore a limited introduction of safe standing areas would provide an area for these people to stand safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 Not for me as I like comfort. However, if clubs wish to put a section aside for those who wish to stand up all the time-fair enough. I remember ging to QPR a few years ago to watch the Saints in the away end. There were tall people in front of me and the view was terrible, despite standing all the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 I am all for it myself, but sadly I suspect there won't be any difference to the atmosphere as only one stand will be turned over to safe standing and we already have a stand (Northam) that stands the whole game. The only difference will be that a few less shins will be grazed and bruised by the backs of seats during goal celebrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 I have been in the safe standing area in Dortmund and it was a great experience ! Personally I prefer being a 'Kingsland Codger' but if I were to stand I'd rather it was not like these days where you are up and down like a yoyo with some stroppy steward marching up and down the aisles telling you to sit ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 I think I am with the prevailing opinion, it would be great to have a dedicated standing area - the rail seating that makes it fully convertible back and forth seems to suit all. The obvious is the cost implication, I think part of the hope for safe standing is a reduction in ticket pricing but, with general trends and the costs of converting current stadia needing to be met, for a lot of clubs (ourselves included) I doubt we would see any such reductions for a long time if at all. People do seem to be stuck in the 80's with knee-jerk responses as soon the standing and football is brought up (of course it is understandable from those affected by tragedy but this does not make them correct). First of all ground safety has moved on dramatically and, perhaps more pertinently, we all now know standing was not the problem but shocking policing and management of the standing area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 Interesting point - if the cost of the ticket remained the same - would people sit or stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 Anti Safe Standing advocates look increasing like luddites, Jesus I just watched Dion Dublin make a complete fool of himself on that clip (cheers for posting that btw) what a moron, how is he even on the BBC, saw him pitchside recently where he looked equally clueless. Hate to say it, but I smell a whiff of positive discrimination him even getting that gig. Anyone that has been to Germany will know it's a complete no brainer, allows fans to choose between sitting and standing, gets more paying people in at (hopefully) lower costs. I like Dan Walker as well, hearding cats in that piece though. The Hillsborough analogy is an insult to the victims, their families and the investigation that proved the reasons for that disaster were South Yorks OB, fencing and a ground without a safety certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 There should be a choice, safe standing all the way for me, the atmosphere nowadays is woeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 Not for me at my age but I can't see the problem with designated areas for those who want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 As was proved tragically in the seventies and eighties safe standing is a contradiction in terms. As always with Health & Safety Issues, quite a lot of idiots need to be saved form their own follies. You should all accept this is one decision that will never be reversed. Far too risky for the FA & the Clubs in our modern day legal climate. Anyway, I am against standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 It should be there for those who want it, terracing can be safe if managed correctly. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 I haven't sat down all season and nothing unsafe has happened yet........................ only 89 years to go for you to beat hillsborough's record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 Hate to say it, but I smell a whiff of positive discrimination him even getting that gig. or the casting couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 I haven't sat down all season and nothing unsafe has happened yet........................ +1...apart from large drunken yoof over-celebrating 4th goal at home to Hull landing on my foot....that's all part of the package though, not many bigger people around me but this one..... I loved the two Peterborough games on the real old style terracing but accept that if it is to return it has to be similar to the German model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint137 Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 Currently 20% or so of most crowds are standing throughout the match in areas which weren't designed for it, seems a perfectly logical idea to make those areas safer by introducing rail seating or similar. I remember Hillsborough and its had a lasting impression on me - to the point I stopped going to games and gigs for a while after it as I got a bit phobic about large crowds. But at the The Dell (Archers) and St Marys (Northam) I've always stood and wouldn't want it any other way. We seem to have given up on getting people to sit down but it would be good to change the ground regs to make it official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 (edited) I stood ...together with 20-odd thousand others..... on the Dell terraces watching games for nearly 30 years, whilst those with deeper pockets and thicker wallets were able to sit " in the stands". Yes it was cramped, people pushed and shoved a bit, and if you were too near the touchline, you got rain down the back of your neck in inclement weather, but I don't recall a single fatality in all that time. The Hillsborough tragedy was terrible, but the circumstances around it were most unusual and made it a one-off incident. A terrible case of human error. The Football authorities (perhaps rightly so) had to be seen to do something positive, but in all honesty there was little need for the drastic action they took then, and it surely is time that it was reviewed. Ground stewards are better trained, very much more aware of safety factors and crowd disturbances are very few nowadays. We know the permitted ground capacity and tickets are now required for all games, if standing is permitted again, and an adjustment to the number of paying customers can be agreed with Health and Safety Dept. We should never forget Hillsborough, but was the standing ban really the right action? As a " senior ".... I enjoy sitting through a game nowadays, but it is obvious there are many thousands who would prefer to stand and shout, cheer and clap, as I used tothen.So I say ....why not ? Edited 21 March, 2014 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 As long as the rail seats are properly stewarded, so everyone has their allocated space to themselves, I don't see the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 As long as the rail seats are properly stewarded, so everyone has their allocated space to themselves, I don't see the problem. in that case i don't much see the point. The main benefit of terraces is so you can go congregate with ur bros, or to quietly move away if you find urself stood next to barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 When people talk about the German model, what exactly are they referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 Ha ha, should have known you'd respond to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 i did wonder if was genuine question, or if you was just trolling on me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 I haven't sat down all season and nothing unsafe has happened yet........................ I HAVE sat down all season, and the only time I couldn't see was when idiots stand up to go get a beer, leave or go for a wee. Sit down, shut up and watch the game. From A Grumpy Middle Aged Man. I don't stand up at the theatre, I don't want to stand up at the footie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 (edited) As was proved tragically in the seventies and eighties safe standing is a contradiction in terms. As always with Health & Safety Issues, quite a lot of idiots need to be saved form their own follies. You should all accept this is one decision that will never be reversed. Far too risky for the FA & the Clubs in our modern day legal climate. Anyway, I am against standing. So standing in seated areas is much safer is it? Do us favour. Take a look at the safe standing arrangement then explain to us in detail just how it is more dangerous than sitting. PS I prefer to sit but there should be a choice. Edited 21 March, 2014 by St_Tel49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Crab Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 WE ARE TREATED LIKE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS AT THE FOOTBALL (except for the seat, the available catering, toilet facilities, programmes, half time entertainment, video screens and announcer, etc.) WHEN WILL THEY TREAT US LIKE HUMAN BEINGS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 As was proved tragically in the seventies and eighties safe standing is a contradiction in terms. As always with Health & Safety Issues, quite a lot of idiots need to be saved form their own follies. You should all accept this is one decision that will never be reversed. Far too risky for the FA & the Clubs in our modern day legal climate. Anyway, I am against standing. Whilst walking around town today i saw hundreds if not thousands of people standing up. How reckless of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 21 March, 2014 Share Posted 21 March, 2014 I spent many years at The Dell standing, well being moved around the terracing - downwards when we scored, and otherwise sideways one way or another, and survived. The German standing / seating idea seems safe to me and would increase the attendance with little outlay. I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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