Will we ever see the top level...

[SNSUN]

Of St Mary's built? The bit where we heighten it at the top on all 3 sides but the Itchen? Ground expansion was mentioned if we increased in stature, we seem to be making steady progress with that.

 

I wonder if Kat and Ralph have talked about it. Would you rather see current stadium expansion or a new stadium built elsewhere if push came to shove?

 

(I ask because I ended up in the Forecourt of The Dell flats by taking a wrong turn on Saturday.)

[Batman]

stadium extension have all gone quiet....no megadome for saints

[Matthew Le God]

Of St Mary's built? The bit where we heighten it at the top on all 3 sides but the Itchen? Ground expansion was mentioned if we increased in stature, we seem to be making steady progress with that.

 

I wonder if Kat and Ralph have talked about it. Would you rather see current stadium expansion or a new stadium built elsewhere if push came to shove?

 

stadium extension have all gone quiet....no megadome for saints

Simon Peach ‏@SimonPeach 5m

Krueger told me finishing training ground was "priority one" & looking at expanding/improving St Mary's second behind that.

 

Simon Peach ‏@SimonPeach 6m

Being reassessed & he seemed keen to look at ways of monetizing area.

 

 

Perhaps this isn't dead after all...

 

 

[Batman]

Krugar is a champions league quote away from being another cortese

 

ffs

[Goatboy]

Krugar is a champions league quote away from being another cortese

 

ffs

 

Built up shoes to fill.

[Saints foreva]

We don't need a ground expansion.

[SNSUN]

We don't need a ground expansion.

 

At what point does that change? Consistent European Football?

[CB Fry]

At what point does that change? Consistent European Football?

 

 

Selling out pretty much every match. Significant waiting list for season tickets.

 

Consistent European football might bring that about but that's unlikely anyway.

[Saints foreva]

At what point does that change? Consistent European Football?

 

When we actually sell out 99% of our home games.

 

Norwich, Villa, Swansea, Sunderland, Fulham, West Ham, WBA and Stoke have all been below 30,000. Can't see Cardiff or Everton home games getting above 30,000 either.

[CB Fry]

Actually, entirely possible that three seasons of Europa football might depress average attendances - loads of Sunday kick offs, plenty more games for the casual fan to spread about.

 

Anyhow, we won't be in the Europa League campaign for several seasons in a row.

[The Kraken]

Simon Peach ‏@SimonPeach 5m

Krueger told me finishing training ground was "priority one" & looking at expanding/improving St Mary's second behind that.

 

Simon Peach ‏@SimonPeach 6m

Being reassessed & he seemed keen to look at ways of monetizing area.

 

That sounds to me as if increasing the stadium size is very much not on the agenda right now. Could be interpreted either way, of course; but "being reassessed" to me means deciding if it's worth actually bothering. I'll start getting interested when the signs out of St. Mary's are a bit more committed. Absolutely no way a stadium increase could be financially justified yet IMO.

[Dig Dig]

Our capacity seems perfect for us.

[The Kraken]

Our capacity seems perfect for us.

It is for all but the games against the top 4 or 5 sides; against those we could get many more fans in. Though, judging by the Liverpool game at least, how many of those would be away fans in the home end is up for debate.

 

The question is, is it worth a capacity increase when you would have 10K or so empty seats against some teams? Not really IMO. Especially if the club have to finance it, rather than rely upon a benevolent benefactor, I can't see a decent financial case to be made for it that way.

[Batman]

It is for all but the games against the top 4 or 5 sides; against those we could get many more fans in. Though, judging by the Liverpool game at least, how many of those would be away fans in the home end is up for debate.

 

The question is, is it worth a capacity increase when you would have 10K or so empty seats against some teams? Not really IMO. Especially if the club have to finance it, rather than rely upon a benevolent benefactor, I can't see a decent financial case to be made for it that way.

well, it appears Kurger puts stadium expansion (or the feasibility of it) as 'Priority' No.2 if the tweet is anything to go by

(not saying it is)

[Dig Dig]

It is for all but the games against the top 4 or 5 sides; against those we could get many more fans in. Though, judging by the Liverpool game at least, how many of those would be away fans in the home end is up for debate.

 

The question is, is it worth a capacity increase when you would have 10K or so empty seats against some teams? Not really IMO. Especially if the club have to finance it, rather than rely upon a benevolent benefactor, I can't see a decent financial case to be made for it that way.

 

Yea I'm not sure there is a financial case and it would also be pretty **** to have even more empty seats against the less attractive games.

[The Kraken]

well, it appears Kurger puts stadium expansion (or the feasibility of it) as 'Priority' No.2 if the tweet is anything to go by

(not saying it is)

He's also said he "reassessing" the whole issue. That could mean anything.

[Matthew Le God]

Our capacity seems perfect for us.

 

Perfect for us for what? Forever, regardless of an improvement in league position? If that logic was followed through we wouldn't need a stadium bigger than 22k based on League One attendances or 26k based on Championship attendances, unless you believe we really have reached an unbreakable glass ceiling at 8th int he Premier League.

 

In any case 32k is too small when Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea come to play even with us as a mid table team. As we sell out those games and people that want a seat can't get one. Other home games will also sell out regardless of opposition on Boxing Day and the last game of the season.

 

If we really do have ambitions of competing at the top then it is too small. Not saying we should increase all sides in one go, but the club has commissioned designs to develop the surrounding land and put another tier onto the Kinglsand Stand. A capacity of 38k to 40k wouldn't be unreasonable along with hotel, apartments, restaurants, shops etc to provide new revenue streams.

 

We wouldn't sellout a 40k stadium for games against some of the smaller sides, but we likely would for the big sides and that would boost the average attendance. Clearly not completely pie in the sky from me, as Cortese commissioned AFL to come up with some designs and Krueger said on his first day..."training ground is priority one" & looking at expanding/improving St Mary's second behind that".

Edited 17 March, 2014 by Matthew Le God

[richardc]

'Build it and they will come'

[Dig Dig]

But you don't know what how many fans actually miss out for the bigger games MLG. Is it 1000, 2000, 5000? And as kraken said, if the club are financing the expansion, how long before they would see a healthy return?

 

Based on where we are now and based on how our attendance has averaged since the return of the prem, I would say that St Marys isn't too far off our max capacity

[Matthew Le God]

'Build it and they will come'

 

The West Ham philosophy for their 20k jump in capacity to 54,000!

[The Kraken]

But you don't know what how many fans actually miss out for the bigger games MLG. Is it 1000, 2000, 5000? And as kraken said, if the club are financing the expansion, how long before they would see a healthy return?

 

Based on where we are now and based on how our attendance has averaged since the return of the prem, I would say that St Marys isn't too far off our max capacity

Our average attendance is also a bit down on last season. Last season's average was 30,800. This season it is below 30,000. Even if we sell out every home game for the rest of the season the average will be around 400-500 down on last season. Not a brilliant trend to justify a capacity increase.

 

Krueger mentions monetising the surrounding area; that and a capacity increase can be mutually exclusive ambitions.

Edited 17 March, 2014 by The Kraken

[moonraker]

'Build it and they will come'

 

This

[Matthew Le God]

But you don't know what how many fans actually miss out for the bigger games MLG. Is it 1000, 2000, 5000? And as kraken said, if the club are financing the expansion, how long before they would see a healthy return?

 

Based on where we are now and based on how our attendance has averaged since the return of the prem, I would say that St Marys isn't too far off our max capacity

 

We've never finished higher than 8th in the Premier League and this is only our 6th season in the top tier with a modern stadium that allows circa 30k of our fan base to attend a match. A bigger stadium over time allows you to grow the fan base as more people can goto games. What if Krueger and Liebherr believe we can compete higher than 8th?

Edited 17 March, 2014 by Matthew Le God

[Tokyo-Saint]

Can you wait till Turkish gets here before you start posting the really mental stuff plse mlg?

[Sour Mash]

We've never finished higher than 8th in the Premier League and this is only our 6th season with a modern stadium that allows circa 30k of our fan base to attend a match. A bigger stadium over time allows you to grow the fan base as more people can goto games. What if Krueger and Liebherr believe we can compete higher than 8th?

I would actually like us to expand the ground. Why haven't we started work yet?

[Matthew Le God]

I would actually like us to expand the ground. Why haven't we started work yet?

 

Because we have a chairman that has only been in a job for a under a week? Previous chairman wanted to expand and commissioned designs, new chairman said on his first day they will be looking at options. It isn't unreasonable to think given Cortese's actions and Krueger's quotes that the club are considering it quite seriously, so not just me dreaming. It may not happen, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out once Krueger has found his feet in his new role.

Edited 17 March, 2014 by Matthew Le God

[Barry Sanchez]

We've never finished higher than 8th in the Premier League and this is only our 6th season in the top tier with a modern stadium that allows circa 30k of our fan base to attend a match. A bigger stadium over time allows you to grow the fan base as more people can goto games. What if Krueger and Liebherr believe we can compete higher than 8th?

 

I would rather they back it up by spending the same amount as the top 4 as opposed to another tier we would only fill 4 times a season.

[Griffo]

I think our capacity is about right for us. Don't want away fans in the home ends when they've sold out, although this is self policed to a certain extent. It was when there was a Scouser in the Itchen North against Liverpool the other week anyway. On the other hand I'd love for us to expect because our stadium is a boring bowl and if adding a second tier to some of the other stands makes St Mary's look a bit more unique then I'm all for it.

[Sour Mash]

Because we have a chairman that has only been in a job for a under a week? Previous chairman wanted to expand and commissioned designs, new chairman said on his first day they will be looking at options.

Why didn't the previous chairman start work?

[Matthew Le God]

Why didn't the previous chairman start work?

 

We can only guess at that, possibly because Liebherr didn't want to work with him long term but still wants to do the stadium project. Now Cortese has gone perhaps things can progress, the new chairman talking about it on day 1 of his new job is a sign its under consideration regardless of Cortese leaving.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Why didn't the previous chairman start work?

 

Lazy.

[The Kraken]

We can only guess at that....

Indeed.

[pap]

It's difficult to argue for increased capacity when you see the empty seats. I like the corner of Itchen North better than the Northam, and a big part of that is because of the regular chasm between the Northam lot and the away fans.

 

The city's glory hunter percentage needs to go down if the club is going to really build on the attendances. We'll get a bit of that from turncoats who realise that maybe we don't have such a sh!t team after all (seen it already), but most of it will involve making sure the next generation of potential Saints fans don't end up supporting Big Team United. We've done ourselves a huge service by getting back to the Premier League so quickly and an even better one by making ourselves the darling underdogs of the media. The "ha! Saints are sh!t!" argument (top one, that) is a lot harder to peddle in the current football climate.

 

On that basis, we've never really been in a better position to expand. The club looks sound in terms of ownership, management and playing philosophy. Southampton players are allowed to play for England now - and not just as some part of an elaborate sick joke. There are reasons to be hopeful for the future - just no clear need now.

[Sour Mash]

We can only guess at that, possibly because Liebherr didn't want to work with him long term but still wants to do the stadium project. Now Cortese has gone perhaps things can progress, the new chairman talking about it on day 1 of his new job is a sign its under consideration regardless of Cortese leaving.

Didn't the new chairman just answer a question that was put to him?

[Sour Mash]

Lazy.

Resources focused on finding his spoon and building his personal lavatory.

[CB Fry]

We've never finished higher than 8th in the Premier League and this is only our 6th season in the top tier with a modern stadium that allows circa 30k of our fan base to attend a match. A bigger stadium over time allows you to grow the fan base as more people can goto games. What if Krueger and Liebherr believe we can compete higher than 8th?

 

But you don't need to build more seats to "grow the fanbase".

 

You need to attract more fans through clever marketing/pricing and, crucially, success on the pitch.

 

I know all you ever do is this cart - before - the - horse routine but as ever you are wrong.

 

Once we have "grown the fanbase" to, say, 26 thousand season ticket holders, a waiting list and a sell out of every single game then we have a case.

 

Over - supply doesn't in itself create demand. Especially when stadium expansion is a gigantic capital commitment.

[DuncanRG]

You can improve the ground and 'monetise the area', as Simon Peach put it, without doing a thing to capacity. I expect that's what Krueger will be looking at first and foremost. Maybe a few thousand seats so we can get more in for the big games without making the place look empty on other matchdays.

 

I'd love to see a nicer exterior built around St Mary's to improve on the bland grey and brick.

Edited 17 March, 2014 by DuncanRG

[Sad Sam]

Before you start to wish for a second tier for St Mary's visit the "Stadium of Light" (Or Newcastle as well I understand)as an away fan.

 

The atmosphere for the two cup games was dire with hardly any home fans and if you were unlucky enough to have a season ticket up in "the gods" you may as well stay at home and watch the game on the telly.

 

It could be my age but I honestly struggled to tell who we had on the pitch (o.k. not helped by MoPo selections)

 

I get the point about expanding as I can't justify a season ticket and getting one or two tickets takes a lot of planning and manipulation (I've only managed West Ham, Fulham and Albion this season and the rest look like selling out) but how often would we be treated to an experience like some of the Tuesday evening League one or Championship games (one of the Sheffield clubs in the snow springs to mind as it was horrible and not just because of the result) - God knows we can be quiet enough as it is.

 

On the other hand a 40,000 seat St Mary's bursting at the seems For Barcelona.....

[Whitey Grandad]

What does it matter if there are a few thousand empty seats? As far as the club is concerned all that matters is revenue, not appearance.

[Sour Mash]

How much would it cost to add 8,000 seats to our capacity?

[CB Fry]

What does it matter if there are a few thousand empty seats? As far as the club is concerned all that matters is revenue, not appearance.

 

This is a reference to our current ticketing policy, not expansion, right?

[Whitey Grandad]

This is a reference to our current ticketing policy, not expansion, right?

 

I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right.

[AussieDog]

I would imagine the key benefit in expanding St Mary's would be to add more corporate boxes and attract more corporate interest.

First, they have to revisit ways in which to make it more appealing and that could be achieved by price reductions and better facilities (inside and outside the stadium). Once you've filled them all and actually got a waiting list, you can start to think about increasing prices again.

 

The same principles would apply for all us other plebs too - if the package is more appealing you are more likely to get more people to come. Of course the prime way is to have a successful team, but you need to get the pricing, facilities and accessibility right too.

 

None of this happens overnight, but it's still great to hear that it's being looked at

[Delmary]

How much would it cost to add 8,000 seats to our capacity?

 

£12M approx. Not much in terms of the TV money we receive nowadays.

[Delmary]

From a business perspective it makes perfect sense to expand now. Even with a modest increase of 8000, we would only need to sellout 6 games per season for 5-6 years to see a pay back.

[paulwantsapint]

The online select your seat option dosn't help with getting sell outs as there are often lots of times when only single seats are available

Also a Norwich supporting friend was told that they had sold out 3 weeks ago but on sat I could see loads of empty seats in the away end I always thought the idea of covered seats was segragtion but instead there are rows of seats kept empty on each side

[Sour Mash]

£12M approx. Not much in terms of the TV money we receive nowadays.

£1,500 per seat? Is that just a guess?

[Sour Mash]

From a business perspective it makes perfect sense to expand now. Even with a modest increase of 8000, we would only need to sellout 6 games per season for 5-6 years to see a pay back.

Why haven't we expanded so far then?

[Turkish]

Is it soon yet?

 

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?37346-St-Mary-s-What-we-might-expect-to-see-happen-(and-possibly-announced-soon)

[Turkish]

From a business perspective it makes perfect sense to expand now. Even with a modest increase of 8000, we would only need to sellout 6 games per season for 5-6 years to see a pay back.

 

Please explain.