Sour Mash Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 Jesus chirst sour mash, put a sock in it. You are wrong and Alpine is right, seriously deal with it. If you want to criticise NC for the job he did you're a total numpty. So you can't give an example either. "Numpty" "deal with it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 Cortese didnt have ANY business experience. He was a banker who invested rich peoples money. Not the same thing at all. So to be clear, being a swiss banker supporting a wide range of sporting clubs including a catalogue of top european club clients is not a business? Or are you just jumping on the Alpine has spoken there fore must be shouted down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 put a sock in it. seriously deal with it. you're a total numpty. there fore must be shouted down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 So you can't give an example either. "Numpty" "deal with it" Exhibit A... NC guides saints from 20th in league 1 to 3rd in the premier league in 3 years and achieves back to back promotions with Adkins who has a net spend of £3m in that time. Exhibit B... Sour mash manages to not hold his fork like plank when eating his cereal, still, its baby steps as he works his way up to the spoon. As for your deligtful trolling and point you are trying to make. I don't have a life objective to prove you wrong on a football forum (hmm maybe that is what my life is missing afterall )... Most saints fans with a basic grasp know Cortese was excellent at negotiating for the club, the oxlade chamberlain deal that Alpine proffered is a great example. But also just signing players like lambert and fonte (who he persuaded to step down a division) and keeping Morgan, lallana together etc was fantastic management. I doubt we'd have done so well if we didn't have a squad of premier league and england internationals on the way up. You also have to look at how all our key players are on long term key contracts giving us financial sercurity when bids start coming in. You may not like people who are successful, personally I'm quite glad Nicola was around when we went bust, we could have had the shower at coventry, leeds, portsmouth etc etc etc.. Instead we got back to back promotions, plaudits for our style of play, 4 england call ups, and the best acadamey in england, with the actual prospect of keeping them all for once. Not only that but he got saints fans signing and dreaming again. All under his stewardship. Any examples for the prosecution per chance? Or shall I bring up relative agent fees vs other clubs for another example of what his negotiating skills gave the club? If not, then do jog on you miserable wind up, are you able to run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 (edited) Cortese the great businessman who Ran the club at a loss every year except one during his tenure failed to deliver the training ground in budget and on time Squandered tens of millions in the transfer market oversaw commerical revenues and sponsorship at an all time low since moving to SMS Had several law suits filed against the club for unpaid bills incuring unnessasary legal expenses oversaw a huge turnover of staff Lumbers us with a large debt with an offshore company despite claiming we 'don't do debt' Great businessman Edited 14 March, 2014 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 So you can't give an example either. "Numpty" "deal with it" Have you got some examples of poor "inter-club negotiations" to share with us all? I'm sure most on this forum would be unable to answer your questions with specifics but you already know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 Another thing that strikes me from some of the comments made is that some people are expecting Ralph to have all the attributes himself, whereas it seems clear to me that he will provide some of the guidance and leadership for the organisation, but with Katharina, Gareth Rogers and the Hoff, we have a well defined Board, with a variety of skills and knowledge. We have effectively replaced Cortese with a Board, rather than like-for-like. And as a result returned to a more conventional corporate structure with governance built-in. That's precisely the point. I've commented on Ralph before because I've seen him at work. He's a communicator, conciliator, outside-the-box thinker and motivator. He is excellent at building a team approach that embraces all key parties, and his warmth and positivity are cornerstones of his personal style - a very likeable man who values honesty and integrity very highly. Therein rests the major culture shift from the days of Cortese - keep the attributes but ditch the failings. I think Katharina knows exactly what she's doing, and is perhaps even more committed to her Father's dream than Cortese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 (edited) Cortese the great businessman who Ran the club at a loss every year except one during his tenure failed to deliver the training ground in budget and on time Squandered tens of millions in the transfer market oversaw commerical revenues and sponsorship at an all time low since moving to SMS Had several law suits filed against the club for unpaid bills incuring unnessasary legal expenses oversaw a huge turnover of staff Great businessman Mistakes have been made. But if the club was sold tomorrow, it would be sold for considerably more than what it was bought for. Money has been spent on investing for the future (e.g. Staplewood), so looking at short-terms costs is equally misguided. In business terms, Cortese has overseen a significant increase in the value of the club. Don't similar principles apply in the printer and cartridge biz, T*rkish? Or maybe you're not a very good businessman. Edited 14 March, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 Have you got some examples of poor "inter-club negotiations" to share with us all? No, why would I? I've never suggested that it's something he's particularly poor at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 (edited) As regards transfers in and out.....evaluation of Academy players in and out... Contracts etc.......NC had Les Reed alongside him for his experience and guidance... Les Reed will continue in his role.....Mr Kreuger and others will carry out their roles on behalf of Ms Liebherr and SFC. The same few posters jump on every little scrap too run Saints/Saints staff down... I really wish Glasgow Saint and Alpine would get on the Saints bus:rolleyes: I suppose those norty boyz call it debate/opinions:mcinnes: Ps Always glad that Les Reed fullfills the role he does......never rated him when he temporarily took the Managers job at Charlton.. At Saints he allows Poch to get on with it ...thank goodness. Always worried me when a CEO , Chairman or Football Director interferes with the Manager/Coach of the team.. It is called doing a RUPERT in football circles:D Hope we win 4-0 on Saturday.......PLEEEEEEESE you mighty Saints.:) Edited 14 March, 2014 by ottery st mary Reed or Read...Not a clue ottery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 (edited) Mistakes have been made. But if the club was sold tomorrow, it would be sold for considerably more than what it was bought for. Money has been spent on investing for the future (e.g. Staplewood), so looking at short-terms costs is equally misguided. In business terms, Cortese has overseen a significant increase in the value of the club. Don't similar principles apply in the printer and cartridge biz, T*rkish. Or maybe you're not a very good businessman, T*rkish. I'd sell a lot more printer cartridges of I had access to the company owners credit card, didn't have to make a profit and threw my toys in the air everytime they demand I show the statements. Edited 14 March, 2014 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 I'd sell a lot more printer cartridges of I had access to the company owners credit card and threw my toys in the air everytime they demand I show the statements. this is like a fergie situation....anyone can do it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 Exhibit A... NC guides saints from 20th in league 1 to 3rd in the premier league in 3 years and achieves back to back promotions with Adkins who has a net spend of £3m in that time. Exhibit B... Sour mash manages to not hold his fork like plank when eating his cereal, still, its baby steps as he works his way up to the spoon. As for your deligtful trolling and point you are trying to make. I don't have a life objective to prove you wrong on a football forum (hmm maybe that is what my life is missing afterall )... Most saints fans with a basic grasp know Cortese was excellent at negotiating for the club, the oxlade chamberlain deal that Alpine proffered is a great example. But also just signing players like lambert and fonte (who he persuaded to step down a division) and keeping Morgan, lallana together etc was fantastic management. I doubt we'd have done so well if we didn't have a squad of premier league and england internationals on the way up. You also have to look at how all our key players are on long term key contracts giving us financial sercurity when bids start coming in. You may not like people who are successful, personally I'm quite glad Nicola was around when we went bust, we could have had the shower at coventry, leeds, portsmouth etc etc etc.. Instead we got back to back promotions, plaudits for our style of play, 4 england call ups, and the best acadamey in england, with the actual prospect of keeping them all for once. Not only that but he got saints fans signing and dreaming again. All under his stewardship. Any examples for the prosecution per chance? Or shall I bring up relative agent fees vs other clubs for another example of what his negotiating skills gave the club? If not, then do jog on you miserable wind up, are you able to run? So that's still a "no" for any examples then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 this is like a fergie situation....anyone can do it!!! Not quite saying that am I. It was our resident mongboard vigilante who likened it to the fake career I'm meant to have. Is it true or not though that it's a lot easier to be successful in the role when you have free reign and access to a billionaires credit card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 No, why would I? I've never suggested that it's something he's particularly poor at. Why be so bothered about people suggesting that it's something he had been good at then? We built a good team during his tenure and didn't have anyone leave who we didn't want to leave except for AOC which was widely regarded to be a good deal for the club. If people want to speculate that he probably was quite good at club negotiations with clubs, the evidence would point towards that being the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 But if the club was sold tomorrow, it would be sold for considerably more than what it was bought for Yep. NC has added massive value to the club. Story has it is ML paid ca. 15m, and the press talk about the club value being ca. 150m. That represents a ten-fold increase in club value, and no way has the club spent that much, even including Osvaldo and Gashy (whom we we will get a fair chunk back on during the summer. Hopefully.) That makes NC a good businessman, in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 Why be so bothered about people suggesting that it's something he had been good at then? We built a good team during his tenure and didn't have anyone leave who we didn't want to leave except for AOC which was widely regarded to be a good deal for the club. If people want to speculate that he probably was quite good at club negotiations with clubs, the evidence would point towards that being the case. I'm not that bothered, just asked what evidence he was impressive in terms of inter-club negotiations and got all sorts of random chapter and verse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 14 March, 2014 first thing to do is short out the red & white shirts for next season! now you're talking........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 Future scenario: Stripes come back and are heralded as club considering fanbase. Days afterwards fanbase moves onto the next futile bee in the bonnet complaint moaning that the club doesn't listen. Club cannot win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 I'd sell a lot more printer cartridges of I had access to the company owners credit card, didn't have to make a profit and threw my toys in the air everytime they demand I show the statements. I am sorry, the annual profit and all your other issues are not the key measurements of a successful business the real value as any businessman knows is in the increased value of the asset base as well as a growing customer base, on both these essential measurements Cortese can not be faulted. If you managed to increase the asset value of your printer cartridge business by anything near the percentage increase in the value of the club, your equity holders would probably allow you unfettered access to their credit cards as a reward too! Your argument is like saying it is not worth spending the money to cut and polish a diamond as you will make an annual loss if you don't intend to sell it till the following year, even though the process has undoubtedly quadrupled its value on the open market! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 I am sorry, the annual profit and all your other issues are not the key measurements of a successful business the real value as any businessman knows is in the increased value of the asset base as well as a growing customer base, on both these essential measurements Cortese can not be faulted. If you managed to increase the asset value of your printer cartridge business by anything near the percentage increase in the value of the club, your equity holders would probably allow you unfettered access to their credit cards as a reward too! Your argument is like saying it is not worth spending the money to cut and polish a diamond as you will make an annual loss if you don't intend to sell it till the following year, even though the process has undoubtedly quadrupled its value on the open market! How exactly did he grow the customer base? Attendances and corporate sponsorship are down on last time we were in the premier league. Yes he increased the value of the business but saints were an absolute steal when we were brought, £15m for a premier league sized club with a premier league stadium already built and fanbase. When you add up the year on year losses, the debt turned into equity, the money squandered in the transfer market, the over budget training ground which was late and funded by the Liebherrs, the poor income from sponsorship compared to what it could have been and the loans taken out the ROI is not a rosy as some of you would like believe it to be. By the way I don't have anything to do with printer cartridges, its a hilarious 'gag' from some of our comedians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 By the way I don't have anything to do with printer cartridges, its a hilarious 'gag' from some of our comedians. no where near as funny as me being a chef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 Cortese the great businessman who Ran the club at a loss every year except one during his tenure failed to deliver the training ground in budget and on time Squandered tens of millions in the transfer market oversaw commerical revenues and sponsorship at an all time low since moving to SMS Had several law suits filed against the club for unpaid bills incuring unnessasary legal expenses oversaw a huge turnover of staff Lumbers us with a large debt with an offshore company despite claiming we 'don't do debt' Great businessman Loss or agreed 7mil per annual investment that has seen the value of the club go from 13 mil to most likely 130 mil in 5 years... Would say that is not a bad return for 30 odd mil outlay training ground... Well do you know the budget and time for project completion? The truth mind, not what you have heard,.... transfer mistake that everyone/club makes... But we also had Lovren,, Wanyama, Rodrigues who ain't been so bad... Well given we were in L1 for 2 years and NPC, were sponsorship is generally lower! not surprising! return to prem was with sponsor already signed up in NPC.... Law suits - , carpet gate and a builder, now I don't know the full story.... And nor do you turnover of staff , not surprising given he had a Swiss work ethic and was demanding.... Shape up or ship out is another way of looking at it. My boss is also a complete nightmare... But fricken good at what they do - they deliver and demand sacrifice from staff... Some leave, some thrive, but we are successful.... offshore 'huge' debt - so tell us how much, over how many years and on what terms... Do you not Know? Well just as likely to to be short term cash flow needs to cover upfront transfer fees before sky revenues are paid... But then you probably know all this but like nothing more than to post your 'controversial' 'insight'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 Yep. NC has added massive value to the club. Story has it is ML paid ca. 15m, and the press talk about the club value being ca. 150m. That represents a ten-fold increase in club value, and no way has the club spent that much, even including Osvaldo and Gashy (whom we we will get a fair chunk back on during the summer. Hopefully.) That makes NC a good businessman, in my book. indeed, but some let their obvious dislike for the mans baffling need to remove Franny's bathroom carpet, cloud their judgement. But wanted to pick up on what you posted earlier on whether he is qualified or not. I think looking at his background, his experience etc in the world of sport and the transferable skills he will have, I think he will do a good job as a chairman. If KL is a chip off the old block, then she will be a decent honest and likeable owner. Both seem decent people and wise enough to listen ad learn and thus do a good job. ...but, it's the parameters or objectives of their job that is open right now. Will the strategy continue as before, or will we see what some say is a 'realistic expectation' - an acceptance that we have plateaued and this is the best we can hope for... My belief is that it is. Selling a Shaw for 30 mil... Will always weaken the side, unless you spend 30 mil on a replacement. Buying 2 or 3 19 mil players ever happens as all this does is double or even triple the wage cost.... So most likely if we sell a 30 mil asset, we will get two 7-8 mil rated players , neither of which improve the first team... The road to the bloated squad. It is also about the statement it makes, one goes, more will want to, and we are back to where we were under Lowe. If we start losing players in the summer, I suspect we will be back in 12-15th place before too long. Shaw aw signed a new contract not long ago under Cortese's direction. Sure contracts mean little these days apart from symbolism, but I do think that whilst he was here, there was a genuine belief that we could do more than many think is probable - and that younger talent would stick around to see what happens... Sadly I don't think we have the same desire now... Just my opinion based on the language and comments made... Hopefully i am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 Loss or agreed 7mil per annual investment that has seen the value of the club go from 13 mil to most likely 130 mil in 5 years... Would say that is not a bad return for 30 odd mil outlay training ground... Well do you know the budget and time for project completion? The truth mind, not what you have heard,.... transfer mistake that everyone/club makes... But we also had Lovren,, Wanyama, Rodrigues who ain't been so bad... Well given we were in L1 for 2 years and NPC, were sponsorship is generally lower! not surprising! return to prem was with sponsor already signed up in NPC.... Law suits - , carpet gate and a builder, now I don't know the full story.... And nor do you turnover of staff , not surprising given he had a Swiss work ethic and was demanding.... Shape up or ship out is another way of looking at it. My boss is also a complete nightmare... But fricken good at what they do - they deliver and demand sacrifice from staff... Some leave, some thrive, but we are successful.... offshore 'huge' debt - so tell us how much, over how many years and on what terms... Do you not Know? Well just as likely to to be short term cash flow needs to cover upfront transfer fees before sky revenues are paid... But then you probably know all this but like nothing more than to post your 'controversial' 'insight'.... It's all true though. You can make all the excuses for like for your hero but when you put it all together it doesn't paint a pretty picture. If the owners were happy with him then he'd still be here wouldn't it. It was 'his baby' after all and you don't walk out on your baby on a whim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 no where near as funny as me being a chef. You are though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 You are though. ok, david brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 indeed, but some let their obvious dislike for the mans baffling need to remove Franny's bathroom carpet, cloud their judgement. But wanted to pick up on what you posted earlier on whether he is qualified or not. I think looking at his background, his experience etc in the world of sport and the transferable skills he will have, I think he will do a good job as a chairman. If KL is a chip off the old block, then she will be a decent honest and likeable owner. Both seem decent people and wise enough to listen ad learn and thus do a good job. ...but, it's the parameters or objectives of their job that is open right now. Will the strategy continue as before, or will we see what some say is a 'realistic expectation' - an acceptance that we have plateaued and this is the best we can hope for... My belief is that it is. Selling a Shaw for 30 mil... Will always weaken the side, unless you spend 30 mil on a replacement. Buying 2 or 3 19 mil players ever happens as all this does is double or even triple the wage cost.... So most likely if we sell a 30 mil asset, we will get two 7-8 mil rated players , neither of which improve the first team... The road to the bloated squad. It is also about the statement it makes, one goes, more will want to, and we are back to where we were under Lowe. If we start losing players in the summer, I suspect we will be back in 12-15th place before too long. Shaw aw signed a new contract not long ago under Cortese's direction. Sure contracts mean little these days apart from symbolism, but I do think that whilst he was here, there was a genuine belief that we could do more than many think is probable - and that younger talent would stick around to see what happens... Sadly I don't think we have the same desire now... Just my opinion based on the language and comments made... Hopefully i am wrong. Hi FC, serious question: did you ever meet/have any dealings with NC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 ok, david brent Thanks Casey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 It's all true though. You can make all the excuses for like for your hero but when you put it all together it doesn't paint a pretty picture. If the owners were happy with him then he'd still be here wouldn't it. It was 'his baby' after all and you don't walk out on your baby on a whim. "With great regret we have accepted the resignation of Mr Cortese," said Katharina in a statement. "He has done a wonderful job at the club and we very much wanted him to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 (edited) Selling a Shaw for 30 mil... Will always weaken the side, unless you spend 30 mil on a replacement. Buying 2 or 3 19 mil players ever happens as all this does is double or even triple the wage cost.... So most likely if we sell a 30 mil asset, we will get two 7-8 mil rated players , neither of which improve the first team... The road to the bloated squad. It is also about the statement it makes, one goes, more will want to, and we are back to where we were under Lowe. If we start losing players in the summer, I suspect we will be back in 12-15th place before too long. Shaw aw signed a new contract not long ago under Cortese's direction. Sure contracts mean little these days apart from symbolism, but I do think that whilst he was here, there was a genuine belief that we could do more than many think is probable - and that younger talent would stick around to see what happens... Sadly I don't think we have the same desire now... Just my opinion based on the language and comments made... Hopefully i am wrong. We buy two seven or eight million pound rated players and neither of which will improve the first team? Are you serious? On planet earth, Nathaniel Clyne cost us £2m and improved the first team, Lovren cost us £8.5 - £500k over, granted - and he improved the first team. Boruc cost us significantly less than seven million. Seven million less in fact. And we all know how much the likes of Fonte and Lambert cost and they are established Prem players. And you are now turning your nose up at 12-15th place finishes in the Premier League, like that is somehow beneath us? And sneering at us spending paltry eight million pounds on players? What club do you think you support? Seriously - who do you think we are? Difficult to come to any other conclusion other than you are mental. It's all jolly sweet that you swallowed all the fairy tales our little sharp suited Italian Wizard of Oz spoonfed to his media chums in the Daily Mail and Sky Sports News. But we know now that was all just emotional blackmail to maintain control and get his hands on more of the dead guy's cash. You fell for it. More fool you. Your hero with all of his "vision" of the "possible" was to arrogant to have the "vision" that it was perfectly "possible" that his employers wouldn't let him just do what the hell he liked, with attendances, corporate income and sponsorships falling all around him. He did an exceptional job with managerial/coaching choices, player recruitment and the academy. But the rest left a lot to be desired. Anyway, he's gone, gone, gone. You're going to have to support a different club to satisfy your desperate need for Champions League football and to rise above the pitiful situation of Saints scrimping to buy players for meagre amounts like eight million pounds. Oh, the shame of it. Edited 14 March, 2014 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 "With great regret we have accepted the resignation of Mr Cortese," said Katharina in a statement. "He has done a wonderful job at the club and we very much wanted him to stay. Seriously, What else did you expect them to say? Although a more fitting tribute would be not to mention him at all, completely airbrushing him from our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 14 March, 2014 Share Posted 14 March, 2014 Surely the most likely explanation as to why Katharina publically said she regrets his departure, wanted him to stay & thinks he has done a wonderful job is because its what she thinks? There maybe some bizarre conspiracy theory as to why she felt the need to say that but think its unlikely. A standard response could have confirmed his departure and thanked him - she clearly thought his performance warranted more. His performance was better than any of us foresaw - in terms of improving football performance, turnover and value. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Saint Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 Cortese, whatever you think of him, did a really good job. Obviously this was done with the significant input of others - Pardew, Adkins, Reed and now MP. But it was Cortese that saw their potential and employed them. Of course the Don didn't use parlance straight of the middle manger's guide to success, he was too single minded, stubborn even, to bother with placating/reassuring others. He knew what he was doing was right and that's all that mattered to him. This new guy is obviously not all fur coat and no panties - he's had success wherever he has been it seems. But not, as yet, in football. I will reserve my judgement on him for now because he has to walk the walk (like Cortese) and not just talk the talk. We should support him of course, even though it's quite clear the club is planning to 'live within its means.' This will inevitably mean changes, perhaps in playing staff as they look to forward their careers at the very top, or the Manager, as MP obviously has ambition. It really is just a case of wait and see and enjoy the next match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 Rather interesting on here; Nicola is receiving far too much praise from a number of you and not enough from the other half. He did an ok job. I mean if we all had a short back and sides, custom tailored suits , somebody else's £50m debit card and enough testosterone to fuel a Golds Gym we all would of done a decent job. He came from a banking & investments background, no previous in sport commercial deals. The fact he was abrupt, direct and wanted the best for this club, people took to him especially after other clubs tried to exploit our previous financial surroundings & he ****ed them off. He genuinely wanted us/him to be the best, pioneers in everything we do but clearly failed with empathy and man management of staff (admin,H.R) yet excelled when dealing with players? The reason Cortese won't go down as a great chairman is simple, his own personal drive and defiance combined with inconsistency across the spectrum. The reason Cortese won't go down as a **** chairman is simple, his own personal drive for us to be the best was genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 Rather interesting on here; Nicola is receiving far too much praise from a number of you and not enough from the other half. He did an ok job. I mean if we all had a short back and sides, custom tailored suits , somebody else's £50m debit card and enough testosterone to fuel a Golds Gym we all would of done a decent job. He came from a banking & investments background, no previous in sport commercial deals. The fact he was abrupt, direct and wanted the best for this club, people took to him especially after other clubs tried to exploit our previous financial surroundings & he ****ed them off. He genuinely wanted us/him to be the best, pioneers in everything we do but clearly failed with empathy and man management of staff (admin,H.R) yet excelled when dealing with players? The reason Cortese won't go down as a great chairman is simple, his own personal drive and defiance combined with inconsistency across the spectrum. The reason Cortese won't go down as a **** chairman is simple, his own personal drive for us to be the best was genuine. lets be honest. he did more than an OK job here. if it was so easy, how come so many fail He has gone. If Krugar can have the impact and eye for manager that NC had then we are in for some great years ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 Rather interesting on here; Nicola is receiving far too much praise from a number of you and not enough from the other half. He did an ok job. I mean if we all had a short back and sides, custom tailored suits , somebody else's £50m debit card and enough testosterone to fuel a Golds Gym we all would of done a decent job. He came from a banking & investments background, no previous in sport commercial deals. The fact he was abrupt, direct and wanted the best for this club, people took to him especially after other clubs tried to exploit our previous financial surroundings & he ****ed them off. He genuinely wanted us/him to be the best, pioneers in everything we do but clearly failed with empathy and man management of staff (admin,H.R) yet excelled when dealing with players? The reason Cortese won't go down as a great chairman is simple, his own personal drive and defiance combined with inconsistency across the spectrum. The reason Cortese won't go down as a **** chairman is simple, his own personal drive for us to be the best was genuine. Top post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 Rather interesting on here; Nicola is receiving far too much praise from a number of you and not enough from the other half. He did an ok job. I mean if we all had a short back and sides, custom tailored suits , somebody else's £50m debit card and enough testosterone to fuel a Golds Gym we all would of done a decent job. He came from a banking & investments background, no previous in sport commercial deals. The fact he was abrupt, direct and wanted the best for this club, people took to him especially after other clubs tried to exploit our previous financial surroundings & he ****ed them off. He genuinely wanted us/him to be the best, pioneers in everything we do but clearly failed with empathy and man management of staff (admin,H.R) yet excelled when dealing with players? The reason Cortese won't go down as a great chairman is simple, his own personal drive and defiance combined with inconsistency across the spectrum. The reason Cortese won't go down as a **** chairman is simple, his own personal drive for us to be the best was genuine. He headed up the Sports division at Credit Suisse, and others, for 10 years before he came to Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 "With great regret we have accepted the resignation of Mr Cortese," said Katharina in a statement. "He has done a wonderful job at the club and we very much wanted him to stay. Glad you quoted this NickG. It confirms the facts: he quit and the club wanted him stay. In other words, rather than a man with a vision and determination to take his beloved club into the Champions League regardless of the obstacles put in his way, Nicola Cortese ran for the hills the minute he faced a little adversity. Basically he did a great job taking the club out of the lower leagues but he didn't have the skills to cope at the highest level. A quitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 Glad you quoted this NickG. It confirms the facts: he quit and the club wanted him stay. In other words, rather than a man with a vision and determination to take his beloved club into the Champions League regardless of the obstacles put in his way, Nicola Cortese ran for the hills the minute he faced a little adversity. Basically he did a great job taking the club out of the lower leagues but he didn't have the skills to cope at the highest level. A quitter. I'm glad that you acknowledge it as a fact, that the club wanted Cortese to stay and that they thought he had done a wonderful job. Beyond that, it is ludicrous to label him as lacking the skills to progress the club further towards the Champions League and to conclude that he was a quitter. He had taken us this far, so there is no particular reason to assume he couldn't take us further. It seems to me that the more likely conclusion that could be reached, is that he was such a single-minded control freak that he wanted to have total control over everything, including the finances he would require to achieve that goal and when Katharina told him, not unaturally, that she needed to have some control over the expenditure of her money, he left on a matter of principle. Stubborn, pig-headed, a control freak, single-minded, driven, extremely ambitious, maybe one or all of those things, but a quitter is the last thing I would accuse him of. But it doesn't surprise me at all that you would reach that conclusion, as you can always be relied on to grasp the wrong end of the stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 How exactly did he grow the customer base? Attendances and corporate sponsorship are down on last time we were in the premier league. Yes he increased the value of the business but saints were an absolute steal when we were brought, £15m for a premier league sized club with a premier league stadium already built and fanbase. When you add up the year on year losses, the debt turned into equity, the money squandered in the transfer market, the over budget training ground which was late and funded by the Liebherrs, the poor income from sponsorship compared to what it could have been and the loans taken out the ROI is not a rosy as some of you would like believe it to be. By the way I don't have anything to do with printer cartridges, its a hilarious 'gag' from some of our comedians. All depends on where you measure from! the customer base in league 1 was a hell of a lot lower than in the premier and if he hadn't got us there it wouldn't have increased. Also despite the spend and I agree not all of it was beneficial surely this is just splitting hairs in the greater scheme of things! As he has given the owners a 10 times and more return on investment in just three years not bad when bank interest rates are 0.5% so even if he squandered half of the 150m sterling or so he has made for them, the owners are still 75m plus up in three years! not a bad return on investment in any ones books these days is it! Also if we were such a great buy 4 years ago why were buyers not queuing up for us I seem to recollect just three bidders and two of them were gash. Lucky fot us NC saw the potential others didn't and sold it to ML so well! Apologies re the cartridges stories and thanks for putting me straight on that! Will be good to get the respect for the clubs history back though, that is certainly something NC was not good at! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 "With great regret we have accepted the resignation of Mr Cortese," said Katharina in a statement. "He has done a wonderful job at the club and we very much wanted him to stay. The reason Cortese "quit" was simply Accountability Markus had given him "free reign" Katharina was not against "free reign" but wanted Cortese to advise her of his spendings, ie submit an expenses balance sheet periodically. Perfectly reasonable, it is Her Club, and Her money Cortese wouldn't agree to this and walked. End of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 The reason Cortese "quit" was simply Accountability Markus had given him "free reign" Katharina was not against "free reign" but wanted Cortese to advise her of his spendings, ie submit an expenses balance sheet periodically. Perfectly reasonable, it is Her Club, and Her money Cortese wouldn't agree to this and walked. End of That is my interpretation of events as well.For all his good points as a CEO, he left because of personal flaws, an unwillingness to work with others, and in particular be answerable to an employer (for whatever reason best known to him). Good luck to NC in finding employment in ANY profession, trade or industry where he does not have to answer to shareholders, or individuals who are putting their own money up. I'm damn sure Abramovitch, or the Arabs owning Man City would want to keep a close check on their CEO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 I'm glad that you acknowledge it as a fact, that the club wanted Cortese to stay and that they thought he had done a wonderful job. Beyond that, it is ludicrous to label him as lacking the skills to progress the club further towards the Champions League and to conclude that he was a quitter. He had taken us this far, so there is no particular reason to assume he couldn't take us further. It seems to me that the more likely conclusion that could be reached, is that he was such a single-minded control freak that he wanted to have total control over everything, including the finances he would require to achieve that goal and when Katharina told him, not unaturally, that she needed to have some control over the expenditure of her money, he left on a matter of principle. Stubborn, pig-headed, a control freak, single-minded, driven, extremely ambitious, maybe one or all of those things, but a quitter is the last thing I would accuse him of. But it doesn't surprise me at all that you would reach that conclusion, as you can always be relied on to grasp the wrong end of the stick. Hilarious you accuse me of grasping the wrong end of the stick. He does lack the skills to take the club into the Champions League because the key skills he needed was to "manage upwards" to give him the room to achieve that goal. Being pig - headed/single minded etc is plenty to haul the club out of the lower divisions but in the billionaires row of the top six you need to have a little more in your kit bag. He couldn't cut it. So he quit. Grasp that stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 I'd sell a lot more printer cartridges of I had access to the company owners credit card, didn't have to make a profit and threw my toys in the air everytime they demand I show the statements. The miracle that Nicola delivered is given immediate perspective with one word. . . NORWICH Norwich went from bottom of league 1 to the prem in succesive seasons (sound familiar?) there 2nd season as we are now, they finished 11th. The parallels are frightening.... One MAIN difference, Norwich did it by spending alot LOT less than us In addition Norwich didnt have the youth setup or star quality like Adam, Chambers, Shaw, Morgan, Kelvin etc already at the club Some people think Nicola did the impossible and its a script straight from Disney You shouldnt "stamp on there dreams" and just let them keep the memories of the chosen one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 The reason Cortese "quit" was simply Accountability Markus had given him "free reign" Katharina was not against "free reign" but wanted Cortese to advise her of his spendings, ie submit an expenses balance sheet periodically. Perfectly reasonable, it is Her Club, and Her money Cortese wouldn't agree to this and walked. End of That is exactly how I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 Hilarious you accuse me of grasping the wrong end of the stick. He does lack the skills to take the club into the Champions League because the key skills he needed was to "manage upwards" to give him the room to achieve that goal. Being pig - headed/single minded etc is plenty to haul the club out of the lower divisions but in the billionaires row of the top six you need to have a little more in your kit bag. He couldn't cut it. So he quit. Grasp that stick. I don't see anybody agreeing with your suppostion, (although I suspect that the other two members of your little gang are your fellow yes men) whereas apart from Nick G and me, there are two other posters after me reaching pretty well the same conclusion as to the reasons for Cortese's departure. I'm sorry to disappoint you and I will not grasp that stick, as I don't agree with your conclusions which are based on nothing in particular except your flawed judgement. It is plain that your opinion is based on some prejudice against Cortese, demonstrated by your infantile reference not to his lack of stature, but to his lack of height. Could you please explain whether it is your opinion that height has anything to do with success. Bernie Ecclestone is shorter than Cortese, but seems to have done a pretty good job at running Formula 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 (edited) That is my interpretation of events as well.For all his good points as a CEO, he left because of personal flaws, an unwillingness to work with others, and in particular be answerable to an employer (for whatever reason best known to him). Good luck to NC in finding employment in ANY profession, trade or industry where he does not have to answer to shareholders, or individuals who are putting their own money up. I'm damn sure Abramovitch, or the Arabs owning Man City would want to keep a close check on their CEO's. Ye olde boyz...so wise:D You are very similar in many ways to my grandfather.. Off to the game in half an hour.......hoping for a 4-0 win pleeeese:) OK then 5-0 Saints.....Some end product please. COYS Edited 15 March, 2014 by ottery st mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 I don't see anybody agreeing with your suppostion, (although I suspect that the other two members of your little gang are your fellow yes men) whereas apart from Nick G and me, there are two other posters after me reaching pretty well the same conclusion as to the reasons for Cortese's departure. I'm sorry to disappoint you and I will not grasp that stick, as I don't agree with your conclusions which are based on nothing in particular except your flawed judgement. It is plain that your opinion is based on some prejudice against Cortese, demonstrated by your infantile reference not to his lack of stature, but to his lack of height. Could you please explain whether it is your opinion that height has anything to do with success. Bernie Ecclestone is shorter than Cortese, but seems to have done a pretty good job at running Formula 1. You don't see anyone agreeing with me? Apart from Badger, Saint Richmond (about as far from one of my "yes men" as you can get) and, I think, Ottery too (difficult to tell with his posting style). So two posters with the same theories as me posting within the last half hour or so. But yeah, no one shares my view. Grasp that stick, or have we all got "flawed judgement"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 March, 2014 Share Posted 15 March, 2014 The miracle that Nicola delivered is given immediate perspective with one word. . . NORWICH Norwich went from bottom of league 1 to the prem in succesive seasons (sound familiar?) there 2nd season as we are now, they finished 11th. The parallels are frightening.... One MAIN difference, Norwich did it by spending alot LOT less than us In addition Norwich didnt have the youth setup or star quality like Adam, Chambers, Shaw, Morgan, Kelvin etc already at the club Some people think Nicola did the impossible and its a script straight from Disney You shouldnt "stamp on there dreams" and just let them keep the memories of the chosen one I think you need to check your facts. Norwich got there a year earlier than us, so are in their third year, with an additional year's income from Sky and the league over us. And comparisons between the players are also laughable too. Lallana is compared by pundits against Snodgrass and even Hoolahan, our kids Shaw and Chambers have only come to prominence this season and you mention Kelvin why? Isn't Ruddy the better keeper than him? And your fellow WUM Barry thought that they had spent much more wisely than us last summer and they were going to set the league on fire with the likes of Wolf's Winkie. What became of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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