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Malaysia Airlines plane missing

melmacian_saint

By melmacian_saint,
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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted

On PPRuNe some one reckons one of the rebel leaders posted something on their site claiming they had shot down a cargo plane, then quickly changed it after news of the airliner came through.

 

There is also a photo, supposedly of a BUK SAM launcher taken in a town 75k East of Donetsk.

 

Looks like the Russians have been handing out hardware to a bunch of f*ckwit rebels and the poor souls on that flight have paid the price.

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
If this is proved the arms are from Russia there is going to be a massive kicking on Putin. This could be a game changer in Ukraine

 

arms from russia and russia being involved are probably two very different things in the big old world

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Fowllyd

Fowllyd

Posted
Posted
Didn't the US shoot down a Korean passenger plane a while ago ?

 

No, the Soviet Union shot down a Korean airliner over Sakhalinsk nearly thirty years ago. US forces in the Persian Gulf did shoot down an airliner (Iranian I think) a few years later.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Would seem odd for Ukraine to do it, given that it had already passed through most of their airspace. If it is proved Russia was behind this, there are going to be some massive turds hitting the fan.

 

If the Forum had someone like a Pap around, they could find a good reason, such as this would then bring pressure onto Putin to force the Rebels to STFU and go home.

 

The ACTUAL question is, why the Fark was a Civilian Aircraft flying over Ukraine when Notams existed and 2 planes have recently been shot down. I would NOT want to be a VP at Malaysian right now IF it was in order to keep costs down

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pap

pap

Posted
Posted
18 years ago to the day that TWA 800 fell out of the sky.

 

Pap, thoughts?

 

Never really looked at TWA 800 before, so anything I'd have to say here would be hastily Google'd regurgitation. Let me have a proper nose and I'll get back to you.

 

If the Forum had someone like a Pap around, they could find a good reason, such as this would then bring pressure onto Putin to force the Rebels to STFU and go home.

 

The ACTUAL question is, why the Fark was a Civilian Aircraft flying over Ukraine when Notams existed and 2 planes have recently been shot down. I would NOT want to be a VP at Malaysian right now IF it was in order to keep costs down

 

I was engaged in family matters tonight, so haven't been as readily available to respond.

 

Let me address your last point first. I completely agree. Anyone with a lick of sense would have figured out that flying commercial airliners over a virtual war zone where planes have been shot down was an incredibly bad idea. I do wonder at what sort of level international flight paths are decided though; is something inherently international the sort of thing a VP of an airline could sort? Regardless, you're right - I wouldn't want to be a VP of Malaysian Airlines right now. Two aircraft lost in the space of five months, one of which is completely unexplained. It's not good for them, and it's not good for the aviation industry.

 

If this goes beyond mere crash, and there's something more to it, then I think it's going to be very difficult to prove which side did it. Any evidence that is presented is going to be widely contested. I've often said on the mainboard that 99% of all speculation is just talking bóllocks in advance; same applies here. Too early and too few facts on the ground. It'll be interesting to see if we "do a Syria", and insist that we engage in some sort of action despite not having any evidence to do so.

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Minty

Minty

Posted
Posted

A good article about it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-why-was-a-passenger-plane-flying-over-a-conflict-zone-in-ukraine-9613412.html

 

Nothing was flying over the area below 32,000 feet. That was assessed to be a safe altitude such that commercial aviation would not be affected by what has, largely, been ground based conflict. No one in their right mind would knowingly put commercial aircraft in danger, not least Ukrainian aviation authorities who are responsible for that section of airspace as they know that international support for their efforts could be compromised if they weren't seen to be doing the right thing.

 

Worth pointing out that it's still down to the airlines themselves if they wish to use certain routes, so clearly all the airlines using this very well-used route from Europe to Asia also felt there was no risk until this point also - but bear in mind their decision is taking with commercial interests in mind, and it is risk assessed accordingly. Easy for us to say it should be safety first, and that *any* risk is too much risk, but in todays world that isn't 'commercially viable'. I personally don't agree with that, but it is undeniably the case.

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted

This was a terrorist attack. The plane was flying in open international airspace deemed safe by the authorities. Plenty of flights were also using it.

 

It is the terrorist's Russian puppet masters that are trying to create a debate that the plane was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Don't get sucked in.

 

Neither the pilots nor the airline did anything wrong.

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Saint137

Saint137

Posted
Posted

Over 100 AIDS researchers on the plane flying to a conference in Melbourne. The guy who developed the original AIDS drugs back in the 80s died on the Lockerbie Pan Am plane, and a number of other researchers also died on SwissAir 111

 

Not one for conspiracy theories and I'm sure renowned AIDS researchers are always flying around the world but its a tragic coincidence.

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
This was a terrorist attack. The plane was flying in open international airspace deemed safe by the authorities. Plenty of flights were also using it.

 

It is the terrorist's Russian puppet masters that are trying to create a debate that the plane was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Don't get sucked in.

 

Neither the pilots nor the airline did anything wrong.

depends if the people that did were aware that it was the Malaysian plane

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Minty

Minty

Posted
Posted
depends if the people that did were aware that it was the Malaysian plane

 

Literally speaking you're probably correct, I sincerely doubt that there was any intention to bring down a civilian airliner, but I'd suggest that we're splitting hairs about how to describe this and that if, as all evidence seems to suggest so far, it was the rebels who brought it down with a SAM, then it has come about as a result of terrorist activity.

 

Debating that point loses sight of the bigger issues here IMO. Some serious work is needed in that area, and any pursuit of violence to try and achieve anything is only going to result in more needless loss of life.

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St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted
http://mashable.com/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-russia-cossacks-leaked-audio/

 

Bit of context to the video, not sure how accurate it is.

 

If that is actually true than it shows just how crazy these people are and are nothing more then terrorists.

 

When told it was an airliner the commander guy said "Did you find any weapons, any documents?" which the guy replied it was a civilian plane and they only found civilian items. How anybody's first thoughts could go towards finding weapons when you just realised you killed 300 people is beyond comprehension to normal people. Then at the end he says they shouldn't have been flying in Ukraine and the fact they were meant they were spies.

 

Pretty disgusting behaviour.

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JoeShmoe

JoeShmoe

Posted
Posted

Sadly no one in the west, can and will do anything about Russia, they will make noises about sanctions etc but with China already having come out warning against blaming Moscow it will only be a load of empty rhetoric as usual

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted (edited)
If that is actually true than it shows just how crazy these people are and are nothing more then terrorists.

 

When told it was an airliner the commander guy said "Did you find any weapons, any documents?" which the guy replied it was a civilian plane and they only found civilian items. How anybody's first thoughts could go towards finding weapons when you just realised you killed 300 people is beyond comprehension to normal people. Then at the end he says they shouldn't have been flying in Ukraine and the fact they were meant they were spies.

 

Pretty disgusting behaviour.

 

I dont think they are terrorists.

I think they are a bunch of nasty ****s that have fooked up in a monumental way

 

on another note, why on earth are civilian planes flying over that region.

I wonder how many of us would happily board a plane that would say, be flying directly over an ISIS controlled area or down town Helmand...probably not many of us. I suspect very few (if at all) civilian planes will be using that route. Especially as before this, aircraft have been shot out of the sky anyway

Edited by Batman
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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
Sadly no one in the west, can and will do anything about Russia, they will make noises about sanctions etc but with China already having come out warning against blaming Moscow it will only be a load of empty rhetoric as usual
If anyone had said 20-30years ago that China would be anyway supportive of Russia you would have not believed it. I do wonder if the 2 have decided to use their combined power to thwart the west longterm. Odd bedfellows
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Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior

Posted
Posted
How can someone firing a bomb into the air be classified as an "accident"?

 

Even if it does turn out to be the Ruskies nobody has the balls to do anything about it.

 

My thoughts exactly . It wasn't an accident . It was shot down . . Poor people .

Oh we have a family in Scotland who have told the BBC news they were planning to be on that flight but due to a lack of seats they didn't get on it .

 

Sorry but have they not forgotten about the 298 passengers who died and their relatives who are grieving not them .

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
I dont think they are terrorists.

I think they are a bunch of nasty ****s that have fooked up in a monumental way

 

on another note, why on earth are civilian planes flying over that region.

I wonder how many of us would happily board a plane that would say, be flying directly over an ISIS controlled area or down town Helmand...probably not many of us. I suspect very few (if at all) civilian planes will be using that route. Especially as before this, aircraft have been shot out of the sky anyway

 

"In a world in which global airspace is connected by more than 58,000 flight routes, commercial airliners travel through conflict regions every day, bringing people whose lives are confined to the relative peace of London, New York, Frankfurt and Tokyo directly over Libya, Afghanistan, Sudan and Ukraine".

http://www.ibtimes.com/mh17-flying-over-conflict-region-common-practice-commercial-airlines-1632066

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
"In a world in which global airspace is connected by more than 58,000 flight routes, commercial airliners travel through conflict regions every day, bringing people whose lives are confined to the relative peace of London, New York, Frankfurt and Tokyo directly over Libya, Afghanistan, Sudan and Ukraine".

http://www.ibtimes.com/mh17-flying-over-conflict-region-common-practice-commercial-airlines-1632066

 

then maybe. in areas where aircraft have recently been blown out of the sky. Flying commercial flights over there whilst the unrest/war/conflict is still ongoing, seriously needs to be looked at

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Minty

Minty

Posted
Posted
then maybe. in areas where aircraft have recently been blown out of the sky. Flying commercial flights over there whilst the unrest/war/conflict is still ongoing, seriously needs to be looked at

 

It was mentioned higher up the thread, ICAO work with governments and local aviation authorities on these things all the time.

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mightysaints

mightysaints

Posted
Posted

would be nice but would never happen as a massive , we stop buying Russian fuel and Chinese goods. They hate the West but without our money their fooked.

Sadly no one in the west, can and will do anything about Russia, they will make noises about sanctions etc but with China already having come out warning against blaming Moscow it will only be a load of empty rhetoric as usual
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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted (edited)
There are hundreds of flights every day flying right over the middle of Baghdad. That includes all flights between Western Europe and any of the Gulf states.

 

maybe, there shouldnt be

the area that this one was shot down has had aircraft shot down recently.

 

not something I would be comfortable flying over. If you would be, fantastic

 

 

if it does come out that russia are somewhat invovlved, then what? a strongly worded statement and a few sanctions imposed?

someone lower down goes to prison??

Edited by Batman
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