Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 what reasons are there for us having an academy? In all probability we shall lose our best players this summer and will be forced to buy weaker ones there by weakening our position and breaking all continuity the team has built up. So my question is is it wise to rely and produce footballers for other larger clubs? What incentive as fans is it for us when we know all our best players willaways end up playing elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Basic maths? Academy costs was less than it costs for someone to buy the players from us? From a business sense - profit. From a footballing sense, proud to see these players come through at OUR club. If we get 2/3/4 years out of them as well then they've given us a good service as well. Would you rather we signed a 28 year old for 5m who is average (thats how much it costs to buy a very average prem player these days), or bring a 18 yr old through who basically costs the club nothing who is a great talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Other than possibly Real Madrid pretty much every club in the world is a feeder club to some degree dune. It also brings significant revenue so the club(s) can survive. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out it's a fairly decent strategy. We also aren't 'relying' on it. See Lovren, Ramirez, Fonte, Boruc, Yoshida, Wanyama............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Basic maths? Academy costs was less than it costs for someone to buy the players from us? From a business sense - profit. From a footballing sense, proud to see these players come through at OUR club. If we get 2/3/4 years out of them as well then they've given us a good service as well. Would you rather we signed a 28 year old for 5m who is average (thats how much it costs to buy a very average prem player these days), or bring a 18 yr old through who basically costs the club nothing who is a great talent. If that 28 year for £5 Million gave us 5 years of service why not? If it gave us continuity and helped us further ini our efforts to win a Cup yes of course, I point to Wigan and Swansea, the academy costs a fortune to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 hopefully in the future we can get players no-one else wants. I would prob still keep the academy but if we have a youth player who looks like they might have potential to play champions league, i would release them immediately. It would save us all this heartache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Other than possibly Real Madrid pretty much every club in the world is a feeder club to some degree dune. It also brings significant revenue so the club(s) can survive. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out it's a fairly decent strategy. We also aren't 'relying' on it. See Lovren, Ramirez, Fonte, Boruc, Yoshida, Wanyama............. So you wont be a tad angry to see Shaw Lallana Schneiderlin Ramirez (I will be happy) Osvaldo (Also) And others possibly go as they have better opportunities elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 We have a fantastic squad here - probably the best in my lifetime. The future is bright........ but only if we keep our best players. Hope we can, not sure we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 So you wont be a tad angry to see Shaw Lallana Schneiderlin Ramirez (I will be happy) Osvaldo (Also) And others possibly go as they have better opportunities elsewhere. But Ramirez, Osvaldo and Schneiderlin aren´t from our academy so where do they fit into the picture of this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 They fit in as we shall sell them, Schneiderlin is to all intents and purposes is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 what are you actually on about tho barry, it don't seem to make sense! You seem to want us to have no good players cos they might get linked to chelsea in the Daily Mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 So even if we buy players, the possibility is that they during their time at us will find better offers elsewhere? So whats the difference then in terms of continuity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 what are you actually on about tho barry, it don't seem to make sense! You seem to want us to have no good players cos they might get linked to chelsea in the Daily Mirror. A pointless task of having an academy as if its a success you sell them anyway, a glorified meat market. Why not buy ready made players who are at our standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 So even if we buy players, the possibility is that they during their time at us will find better offers elsewhere? So whats the difference then in terms of continuity? You dont agree that if we sell 3/4 of our best players it wont affect the continuity of the side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 So you wont be a tad angry to see Shaw Lallana Schneiderlin Ramirez (I will be happy) Osvaldo (Also) And others possibly go as they have better opportunities elsewhere. Would I be angry? No. Would I be a tad disappointed? Yes. Would I understand that this is the reality of modern day football? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 A pointless task of having an academy as if its a success you sell them anyway, a glorified meat market. Why not buy ready made players who are at our standard. Either way you'd complain about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Would I be angry? No. Would I be a tad disappointed? Yes. Would I understand that this is the reality of modern day football? Absolutely. So then you have to ask yourself, if we dont take Cups seriously and we sell our best players what direction is this club going? Champions League? You're having a laugh, how could we do that flogging our best players? How could we progress selling the cream of the crop? Humble pie for the ones spouting the rise of Southampton, we are more like breeders for the market show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Top two threads on the board are that it's inevitable that MP is leaving and that we're apparently going to sell our academy players. Got to love this place and it's calm, balanced posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Top two threads on the board are that it's inevitable that MP is leaving and that we're apparently going to sell our academy players. Got to love this place and it's calm, balanced posters. As balanced as the threads in October and this by our manager http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2444164/Mauricio-Pochettino-Forget-Europa-League-Southampton-want-Champions-League.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 A pointless task of having an academy as if its a success you sell them anyway, a glorified meat market. Why not buy ready made players who are at our standard. As seen at Pompey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 A pointless task of having an academy as if its a success you sell them anyway, a glorified meat market. Why not buy ready made players who are at our standard. I bet Mr Tesco is Kicking himself. He bought far too many groceries and now he has to sell them all. He doesn't even shop at Tesco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 As seen at Pompey? As what seen at pom*ey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 As balanced as the threads in October and this by our manager http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2444164/Mauricio-Pochettino-Forget-Europa-League-Southampton-want-Champions-League.html You've just linked to an article that quotes Poccetino saying there are problems with the Europa League and that he refuses to contemplate getting into the Champions' League any time soon. I'd agree with him there, you're right, his comments are very balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 You've just linked to an article that quotes Poccetino saying there are problems with the Europa League and that he refuses to contemplate getting into the Champions' League any time soon. I'd agree with him there, you're right, his comments are very balanced. Even him talking about it as its attainable makes me blush, how can we progress if we sell our best players? If we do that surely it means we are going backwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Even him talking about it as its attainable makes me blush, how can we progress if we sell our best players? If we do that surely it means we are going backwards? full steam backwards after we sold chamberlain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 As what seen at pom*ey? Getting rid of the academy and buying in players of 'our standard' as you suggest. Great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 full steam backwards after we sold chamberlain. We were not in the Premiership though and had dreams of Champions League football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 If you really need this answering then you're more special than I'd anticipated. Poor old dune, he does seem to make himself look a bit of a plonker some times. Anyway he's had plenty of bites so I guess he's happy. It takes all sorts and this should be recognised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrensup Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 I get what Barry is saying I think. The problem is what's the point of having a good academy if you had to sell your best plays all the time, yes it brings in money to the club but from a footballing point well never progress? Just stay a middling club forever. Unless you're already a big club/rich club then your youth will always be poached. Unless you're the size of Barcelona or Munich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 what reasons are there for us having an academy? In all probability we shall lose our best players this summer and will be forced to buy weaker ones there by weakening our position and breaking all continuity the team has built up. So my question is is it wise to rely and produce footballers for other larger clubs? What incentive as fans is it for us when we know all our best players willaways end up playing elsewhere. Still fighting the cold war are you? Saints have moved on and so must you. If players want to leave there's not a great deal the club can do about it or so you seem to think but Liverpool dug in and refused to let Suarez go or even consider offers because they had him on a long contract and insisted he honoured that contract. Obviously the PL and the lawyers agreed with the club that contracts do have meaning. So contracts matter and Luke Shaw (if that's who you are worried about) is on a long contract and so is Adam and anyway neither shows any interest in leaving. So why keep harping on and on about nothing. Our problems such as they are, are to kick on next year and after three defeats on the trot evidentially we are not the finished article. Focus your attention on the key players we should bring in as striker and centre-back. If any contracts are running down and with no sign of their renewal it will likely be because the Club no longer needs their services. otherwise they'll all go off to Switzerland, climb mountains, nude swim in freezing lakes, wrestle with crocodiles to overcome their worst fears a d come back ready to storm the PL. 2015 will take care of itself when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Have I missed something? How many of our good young players have we sold since the we've been in the Premiership? As Mr Sanchez is so confident that these players are off in the summer, he should get down to Ladbrokes and do a nice accumulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Even him talking about it as its attainable makes me blush, how can we progress if we sell our best players? If we do that surely it means we are going backwards? Seeing as you like to go on about people presenting speculation as it's fact. What on earth are you waffling on about? We havn't exactly been in the habit of selling our best players of late, quite the opposite. Whilst I could not say with absolute certainty - I'd be surprised if no offers for Morgan/Lallana/Lambert/Shaw/Cork etc had been made in the last few windows. A player may go, yes - but you are making up situations that are yet to occur, and there is nothing to suggest that all our best players are about to leave. Yes, if a club (any club, not just Saints) sells their best players it will affect the continuity of their side. That is about as obvious as saying if we take oxygen away from our players they will die. No one is disputing this. What is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 I am more confident that we will sell our best players this summer than us qualifying for the Champions League next season, disagree I shall give you 3/1, cant say fairer than that can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Seeing as you like to go on about people presenting speculation as it's fact. What on earth are you waffling on about? We havn't exactly been in the habit of selling our best players of late, quite the opposite. Whilst I could not say with absolute certainty - I'd be surprised if no offers for Morgan/Lallana/Lambert/Shaw/Cork etc had been made in the last few windows. A player may go, yes - but you are making up situations that are yet to occur, and there is nothing to suggest that all our best players are about to leave. Yes, if a club (any club, not just Saints) sells their best players it will affect the continuity of their side. That is about as obvious as saying if we take oxygen away from our players they will die. No one is disputing this. What is your point? So if we sell our best players how can it be seen as strengthening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 I am more confident that we will sell our best players this summer than us qualifying for the Champions League next season, disagree I shall give you 3/1, cant say fairer than that can you? So who do you think we will sell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 So who do you think we will sell? Lallana, Shaw from the academy and then possibly Schneiderlin, Ramirez, Osvaldo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horley CTFC Saint Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 what reasons are there for us having an academy? In all probability we shall lose our best players this summer and will be forced to buy weaker ones there by weakening our position and breaking all continuity the team has built up. So my question is is it wise to rely and produce footballers for other larger clubs? What incentive as fans is it for us when we know all our best players willaways end up playing elsewhere. Are you really being serious?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 I am more confident that we will sell our best players this summer than us qualifying for the Champions League next season, disagree I shall give you 3/1, cant say fairer than that can you? I'm more confident of waking up next to Katy Perry tomorrow morning than scoring the winning goal in the World Cup Final this summer. So if we sell our best players how can it be seen as strengthening? Well no, obviously not. No one is saying that. Is this how you rack up your Barry 15 - Others 0 scores? You start arguments with yourself so you are right? That said, teams like Everton and Arsenal have done well by selling players (sometimes their best/better Cesc/RVP/Song) and reinvesting that money on the squad. Remember that link you sent to me about Everton being massive spenders, or spending less than they had received on transfers? In Arsenals case that often includes investing in young players and bringing them through. Does that mean it would absolutely happen at Saints? No of course not. We would have to improve on getting the right recruits in (though we are better at this than you give us credit for). But this is always a gamble. Further more, I love how you cite Wigan as an example of how to do things. I'd love for us to follow their model, and get relegated. Or QPR, as you suggested we follow them last season - "at least they went for it". But yeah Barry 18 - Board 0, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 I would rather we were relegated and won a Cup, memories are what it is all about for me, staying in the middle of the park stagnating is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMEONYOUREDS Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 I agree with Barry. Scrap the academy and sign a team of hasbeens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 I would rather we were relegated and won a Cup, memories are what it is all about for me, staying in the middle of the park stagnating is not. We are more likely to win things with a better team. We are more likely to have a better team if we are in a better league. The cups happen every season Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 We are more likely to win things with a better team. We are more likely to have a better team if we are in a better league. The cups happen every season Barry. So does the attempt to get promoted, those seasons were amazing as well, trophies not finishing in 10th please, or raising players for other clubs if we are too progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfield Saint Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 I agree with Barry. Scrap the academy and sign a team of hasbeens It worked when we sold Shearer and bought Dixon/Speedie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Surely the point of a promotion is to play in the higher league? Out of interest, as I don't have the answer. When was the last time a team outside the top division won a cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Lallana, Shaw from the academy and then possibly Schneiderlin, Ramirez, Osvaldo. Who do you think is going to pay the 25 million+ we will ask for Lallana? Who will pay 20 million for Morgan? Ramirez can't get in the side at the moment and Osvaldo was awful and won't be missed one bit The only one I can see us losing is Shaw, and if we do sell him we will have 30 million or so to go and bring 3 or 4 top class players in. We would be a stronger team overall. That's assuming Shaw wants to leave, something we can't be certain about either way. The academy is our identity. Without it we lose everything good and unique about this club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Lallana, Shaw from the academy and then possibly Schneiderlin, Ramirez, Osvaldo. So hang on, are Ramirez and Osvaldo crap or our best players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 I'd be a lot more confident in keeping our youngsters if we still had a man around that could arrange to have a horses head placed in their beds... Seriously, this summer, keeping Pochettino is the key IMO. I believe that whoever is owner of the club, Kat or whomever she sells it to, must keep some cohesion around the place, and keeping Pochettino may meaning keeping, and building upon, our best players. If the rumours that we're looking at Javi Gracia as his replacement, that needs to be done as soon as the season finishes, to give the players a chance to know him. My fear though is if we lose Pochettino, the key players could be sold on. (Although granted we'd be well compensated for them.) However it was encouraging to hear Shaw gush after his England appearance, saying that he couldn't believe that at the age of 18 he'd played for England AND had over 50 Premier League appearances to his name. Regular football may be our biggest bargaining chip in keeping the likes of Shaw, over losing him to Chelsea or the Manchesters where he may only be 2nd choice. As a Saints fan, as for the academy, I have a sense of pride in seeing the players it produces. Granted it's not massively consistant in the players it churns out, it's only as good as the personnel within it, and as we saw from our relegation season in the CCC you don't always find a diamond like the few we have in our current team (or an un cut diamond in Lallana). How we could've used Shaw back then when we were relying on Molyneux, how we could've used Lallana when we were relying on Ryan Smith, or Chambers in lieu of Lloyd James. Seeing our youngsters sold on is sad, but I still have a sense of pride when I see Oxlade-Chamberlain. The benefit now we're in the Premier League is that we can demand more for our youngsters than when we were in the lower leagues, which I guess is the biggest plus of all. I'm sure we'd all love to see the same set of players start next season, but with one or two additions, but it will be a struggle, especially as so many of them are now in the limelight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 I would rather we were relegated and won a Cup, memories are what it is all about for me, staying in the middle of the park stagnating is not. Relegation is pretty memorable in itself Bazza, do you need a cup win in addition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 7 March, 2014 Share Posted 7 March, 2014 So hang on, are Ramirez and Osvaldo crap or our best players? Depends which thread is being ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 It worked when we sold Shearer and bought Dixon/Speedie And Perry Groves on the right......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 7 March, 2014 Relegation is pretty memorable in itself Bazza, do you need a cup win in addition? No it helps ease the pain though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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