Clegg vs Farage

[pap]

Yet another EU thread, but things seem to be developing at quite a pace. Nick Clegg invited Nigel Farage to have a public debate on Britain's membership of the EU. This video gives a decent overview.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uyXXlLt54w

 

Clegg gave a good performance in the 2010 leadership debates (remember Cleggmania? ), but he'll be entering the April debate as damaged goods, right before the European elections. Farage is a decent orator on the way up, addressing an issue on which he'll have a lot of popular support; the debate itself will attract a lot of viewers and generate headlines. As the video points out, it will almost certainly increase calls for Farage to be amongst the speakers in next year's leadership debates.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I think this is a potential huge own goal for Clegg; he stands every chance of being eviscerated by Farage and won't be able to hide behind the "that's nice, dear" safety-in-numbers response that works so well when Farage is spouting off in the European Parliament. The timing of other events such as EU elections could give UKIP real momentum heading into next year's general election.

 

What do we reckon? Is this debate going to be pivotal or irrelevant?

[Saint_clark]

Anyone else reminded of when kids in school used to challenge each other to fights outside the school gates?

 

Anyway...Clegg wouldn't have suggested this unless he was confident, he'll know about how he and Farage are viewed by the majority of the population. I reckon he'll have something up his sleeve, there'll be a policy announcement in this f'sure.

 

Just watched the video, had to laugh at:

No chance of any other party getting involved?

No, the Prime Minister we're told is far too busy running the country

Edited 25 February, 2014 by Saint_clark

[Saintandy666]

It isn't a huge own goal at all. Clegg and Farage and polar opposites and I can not see either of them losing votes because of this. Clegg will appeal to his own base and solidify that as well as having hope of snatching some europhiles from labour/green etc whereas Farage will appeal to his own base and solidify that as well as having hope of snatching some europhobes from conservatives etc

[pap]

I'm not sure that Clegg is especially confident. This move could just as easily be a last throw of the dice, both for him and his party. Government has not been kind to the Lib Dems. The Tories have been excellent in diverting rivers of sh!t their way, mostly because the Lib Dems said such lovely things before the election. Returns at elections have diminished to the point where the Lib Dems are increasingly becoming the fourth party, behind UKIP. Is it confidence that underpins this decision, or desperation?

 

Onto Saintandy666's points. What is Clegg's base now? We've discussed the wider impact the Lib Dems haven't had in elections, but I'm not a party member; I don't know how well he is regarded in a party that historically, hasn't shown any compunction in throwing its leaders under the metaphorical bus. Indeed, I think one of the reasons that Clegg hasn't been chucked already is the bizarre set of circumstances the party is in. e.g. Being in government and all that.

 

These debates are still a new concept in the UK. Difficult to know what the long term impact is. Is Clegg sharing power now because of his performance in those 2010 debates? Difficult to say, but one thing I think you can say is that he'll enter this debate on much dodgier ground, sporting a much dodgier reputation and will be up against someone who has obsessed over EU policy for over a decade, and is pretty cool at ripping it apart.

 

Big ask for Clegg, I reckon.

[Batman]

debate with farage on the EU

 

good luck with that one cleggy

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ryf3uX78so

Edited 25 February, 2014 by Batman

[hypochondriac]

Farage will most likely tear him a new one. The only chance clegg has is if he absolutely knows his stuff and tries to back farage into a corner. Almost impossible Imo.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Milliband , we are told has a 35% strategy. That is , the electrol maths mean that labour will form a majority with 35%. Clegg is attempting a 10% strategy here, he's trying to appeal to the 10% of the population that are euro federal loons, who won't vote labour. Cleggy has nothing to lose, as he's lost it all anyway.

 

Nigel needs to do two things in this debate. Appeal to blue collar labour voters and smash Cameron's referendum con.Taking cleggy apart is the easiest part, the blokes a busted flush. The lib dumbs had election leaflets calling for a straight in/out vote, and then there's the tuition fees farce.

 

I think labour have missed a trick here, if milliband takes part it leaves Cameron looking really bad, and it'll be two onto one, cleggys finished and milli band could hoover up some lib/dumb votes.

[Wes Tender]

I think Pap has hit it about right with everything he has said.

 

Parallels between Clegg's performance in the last General Election and how he might fare against Farage cannot realistically be drawn. In the General Election debate, it was a three way event and Clegg, not really expecting that the Lib Dems would be elected, was able to spout his Party's usual shallow platitudes, trying to be all things to all people, hoping to be seen as the viable alternative to the two main Parties.

 

This will be a head to head debate primarily on a single issue, Clegg having to face a politician whose rise to prominence has been on the back of this single policy issue, which has given him a firm grasp of all of the arguments. Really, I can't see why Clegg has thrown down this challenge as it is likely to backfire badly on him and potentially could be the biggest misjudgement of his career. He is on a hiding to nothing following the Lib Dems stance on our EU membership, when the voters have swung towards the biggest Euro-scepticism since we joined.

 

The voters are fed-up with the constant election promises that they will have an opportunity to vote on our continued membership of the EU and certainly they are completely cynical at Cameron's promise that if we elect the Conservatives they will guarantee a referendum in 2017. The referendum should have been held during this Parliament. Farage offers the electorate the opportunity during the European Parliamentary Elections to have their say on Europe and effectively the European Election itself will be seen as the referendum. I predict that not only will Clegg do his Party no good with this debate, but that UKIP will register massive gains in these elections. It will start a bandwagon rolling in the run up to the General Election that will have the other three Parties looking nervously over their shoulders. It wouldn't surprise me if the Lib Dems are overtaken as the third party.

 

Personally, I believe that the majority of the electorate do not actually wish to leave the EU, but they would only be happy to remain in on the basis that it was solely a trading block and nothing else. This is what was originally agreed by the Treaty of Rome, that we became members of a Common Market. Despite the massive changes which have transformed the European organisation beyond recognition via several subsequent treaties, the British Electorate has never been afforded the right to vote on whether they were happy with them. The cowardly Westminster politicians thought that by achieving a majority in an election on a basket of diverse policies, that gave them a mandate to go with these sweeping European changes.

[Barry Sanchez]

Farage is a far too smooth operator for Clegg, would smash him with populist rhetoric whilst Clegg would cling onto the right to live and work in Europe, the vast majority of Brits overseas are skilled migrants where the Country have always welcomed them in anway or retired pensioners buying or renting homes spending money in the Country they are in, completely different to an unskilled migrant sending money home undermining the low skilled worker and local economy of this Country.

 

Farage 10 - Clegg a big leather sandal

[solentstars]

Without farage ukip would not register has a party.it don't matter what clegg says on Europe even if he wins the debates.most of farages rhetoric weather true or not he will play to the gut feeling of a lot of Brits we can cut ourselves of europe and rule ourselves and it will be like a land of milk and honey.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Barry Sanchez]

I think most people want concering Europe is our most admirable attribute, fairness, so we can set our own rules, our own workers are protected from cheap unskilled labour, a vote on Europe which is denying the vast majority of having their say (70% want a vote I will add).

 

Fairness, Clegg is not fair and Farage would hammer him for a denial of democracy.

[solentstars]

That will only happen if we leave the EU and then we will still have to implement EU rules to trade in the single market without any say has countries outside will tell you.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Edited 25 February, 2014 by solentstars

[solentstars]

I think most people want concering Europe is our most admirable attribute, fairness, so we can set our own rules, our own workers are protected from cheap unskilled labour, a vote on Europe which is denying the vast majority of having their say (70% want a vote I will add).

 

Fairness, Clegg is not fair and Farage would hammer him for a denial of democracy.

 

That will only happen if we leave the EU and then we will still have to implement EU rules to trade in the EU block with no say has countries outside the block will tell you.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Barry Sanchez]

That will only happen if we leave the EU and then we will still have to implement EU rules to trade in the single market without any say has countries outside will tell you.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

Others have managed this task with far smaller trading power then we have, Denmark and Switzerland for example, I am an idealist in the fact I am more bothered about a denial of a vote as the politicians are afraid of the result and dont want it as big business wants high amounts of low skilled workersto slowly erode the Unions and workers here.

The impact on our infrastruture is another matter as surely the Government wanting a free and liberal Europe should be paying for all the people that come here, surely?

[solentstars]

To be fair as are not a small player like Denmark and Switzerland. We are the worlds 6 the biggest country in terms of wealth . I think that its a global economy now days and we can not hide from it.we need to export and deal with trading block s and we have more influence by being a member of EU.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Barry Sanchez]

To be fair as are not a small player like Denmark and Switzerland. We are the worlds 6 the biggest country in terms of wealth . I think that its a global economy now days and we can not hide from it.we need to export and deal with trading block s and we have more influence by being a member of EU.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

I think I wrote that, they are smaller than we are and yet still managed to have a near same trade agreement as we currently do now, no one is hiding from anything bar the politicians and their apologists, whether you are pro or anti European being totally intergrated nobody should be against a vote given to the people.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Not sure it is only big business Barry. My business does about 60% of our trade with the EU. Without it and with the old visa/trading tariffs we would not be in the position we are in now. Trading internationally is a big part of most companies large or small these days.

[Barry Sanchez]

I have never known a company to not want to trade with another and tariffs? Lets talk about that if and when, Denmark still trade as does Switzerland, Norway and many others, a free trade agreement and not being dictated to from Brussels is cetainly attainable.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Aren't you an immigrant from NZ Barry?

[solentstars]

Not sure it is only big business Barry. My business does about 60% of our trade with the EU. Without it and with the old visa/trading tariffs we would not be in the position we are in now. Trading internationally is a big part of most companies large or small these days.

 

I agree I remember pre EU days when we put up to 25 ℅ tariffs on cars entering the UK has we could not compete and try to protect inefficient industries and poor quality products at higher prices .

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Barry Sanchez]

No I lived there, what does that have to do with a trade agreement? Why is the pro European camp always trying use a stick to beat the ones merely questioning whether we should have a vote on Europe with immigration? There are many others issues, you can be pro European and yet want to protect the interests of your own Country you know.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If you listen to the EU federal nutters (the same ones that urged us to take up the Euro), if we left, not one Brit would be allowed to live in the EU and all our companies would cease trading with the EU. It is clearly nonsense designed to frighten the population and to try and paint the opponents of "ever closer union" as Little Englanders.

 

Will they get away with it? Maybe, they did last time. Even if they don't their standard response, as the French and Irish found out ,will be "vote again".

[Barry Sanchez]

Do you think that would happen again Solent? Really do you?

[Barry Sanchez]

Ah the old Irish vote again, it makes me laugh, like a rigged game in a casino, the pro European camp can never answer that one and yet they deny us one vote on it, its as corrupt a system as you will find anywhere.

[Tokyo-Saint]

No I lived there, what does that have to do with a trade agreement? Why is the pro European camp always trying use a stick to beat the ones merely questioning whether we should have a vote on Europe with immigration? There are many others issues, you can be pro European and yet want to protect the interests of your own Country you know.

 

No sticks Barry, you are doing a fine yourself with all that rope. I was just wondering why someone who spent a large part of his life somewhere else, stealing someone else's job (and may well do the same again in Singapore) seems to be so against the concept of migration.

 

Edited 25 February, 2014 by Tokyo-Saint

[Barry Sanchez]

No sticks Barry, you are doing fine yourself with all that rope. I was just wondering why that someone who spent a large part of his life somewhere else stealing someone else's job (and may well do the same again in Singapore) seems to be so against the concept of migration.

 

The job I did was actually in short supply hence me doing it otherwise I would havenot been allowed to stay, quite correct and simple really, I dont know why you are going down this alley when it has nothing to do with a vote on Europe.

Nice try though, simple and flawed arguement that a vote on Europe always has to come down to immigration by the Pro European camp, I am undecided but would like a say, wouldn't you?

[Tokyo-Saint]

I am undecided but would like a say, wouldn't you?

 

The answer to this would obviously usually be yes. However, there are so many sensationalist scaremongers out there ("The Bulgarian's are coming!") and so many dim wits that believe them, I am worried that a large number people would vote without making an informed decision. They might as well open the lines on Xfactor and let people vote at the same time as voting on that.

[solentstars]

Do you think that would happen again Solent? Really do you?

 

I understand you are following your heart but I d rather deal with reality until some one can explain how we will be better off leaving the EU rather than rhetoric .I prefer listening to our business community about our interests has they pay our bills at the end of the day .

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Barry Sanchez]

I understand you are following your heart but I d rather deal with reality until some one can explain how we will be better off leaving the EU rather than rhetoric .I prefer listening to our business community about our interests has they pay our bills at the end of the day .

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

You mean the business community that gives nothing back to the working person? They want the status quo for a number or reasons but cheap labour and the weakening of the Union movement is a high factor, why do a few new Countries become members every few years? Ukraine next?

Edited 25 February, 2014 by Barry Sanchez

[Tokyo-Saint]

You mean the business community that gives nothing back to the working person?

 

How do you work that out Barry? I am part of the business community, at present employ 100% British staff (not by design), pay national insurance, pension contributions etc etc. Not to mention the huge taxes we have to pay, business rates, tax on profits, VAT, tax on any dividends.

 

95% of the money we bring in is from other countries, many in the EU. How is that "doing nothing for the working person"?

[pap]

How do you work that out Barry? I am part of the business community, at present employ 100% British staff (not by design), pay national insurance, pension contributions etc etc. Not to mention the huge taxes we have to pay, business rates, tax on profits, VAT, tax on any dividends.

 

95% of the money we bring in is from other countries, many in the EU. How is that "doing nothing for the working person"?

 

By the same token, Amazon is "part of the business community", but is just a "delivery business" in the UK and pays its corporation tax to Luxembourg.

 

That's a huge p!ss-take. This is a mature market that generates strong demand for consumer products. Any company benefiting from the infrastructure the country has should be pitching in. I wonder how well Amazon's "delivery business" would work if we didn't have roads, hospitals or coppers keeping their vans from being robbed.

[Barry Sanchez]

How do you work that out Barry? I am part of the business community, at present employ 100% British staff (not by design), pay national insurance, pension contributions etc etc. Not to mention the huge taxes we have to pay, business rates, tax on profits, VAT, tax on any dividends.

 

95% of the money we bring in is from other countries, many in the EU. How is that "doing nothing for the working person"?

 

What does the working man now get from Europe that he never used to? How much tax is paid by these companies? How many are based here? Paying tax is evil we have to do for a better society, I have no issues with tax at all, I have issues with the amounts some pay over others though, again fairness.

[Tokyo-Saint]

In that case are you both proposing that the level of tax companies pay should be the same throughout Europe?

 

This would stop or at least discourage companies like Google basing the operations out of Ireland or Amazon out of Luxembourg.

 

Isn't the EU in general trying to make things more uniformed across member states? Banana straightening and all that.

[Barry Sanchez]

In that case are you both proposing that the level of tax companies pay should be the same throughout Europe?

 

This would stop or at least discourage companies like Google basing the operations out of Ireland or Amazon out of Luxembourg.

 

Isn't the EU in general trying to make things more uniformed across member states? Banana straightening and all that.

 

I was in Ireland when IBM were expanding, what this meant in real terms was cheap labour paid for by the Government and IBM paying low taxes to be there, if and when they completely pull out you have a low skilled workforce that have no jobs, I'm talking about production, how many does Google employ in Ireland? How many Europeans and how much tax does it pay?

[Tokyo-Saint]

So should it all be level Barry? Also do you admit that at least some of the business community is doing something for the working man? Large multinationals aside of course.

 

Stop answering questions with questions*, you could be a politician.

 

 

I know I have just done that but otherwise there is no chance of getting an answer.

[Barry Sanchez]

So should it all be level Barry? Also do you admit that at least some of the business community is doing something for the working man? Large multinationals aside of course.

 

Stop answering questions with questions*, you could be a politician.

 

 

I know I have just done that but otherwise there is no chance of getting an answer.

 

You are further strengthening European intergration with that, why would I want that if I dont know enough infomation about it and they wont give us a vote on whether we should be in or out of it? We are different Countries, businesss and corporations should not hold Countries to ransom over where they base their industry, it leads to collabaration between the two, there should possibly be a minimum.

[solentstars]

I think Barrie forgets that the working man has benefited from a lot from things like the social chapter and other rules.the fact is that its a single market and freedom of movement is one of the corner stones of the EU.we get alot of skilled labour and investment in our industry's from France Germany and India and I would think if we left they would move over to mainland EU over the longer term which would lose working people jobs here.the worlds moved on from 1950s type rhetoric.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[pap]

In that case are you both proposing that the level of tax companies pay should be the same throughout Europe?

 

This would stop or at least discourage companies like Google basing the operations out of Ireland or Amazon out of Luxembourg.

 

Isn't the EU in general trying to make things more uniformed across member states? Banana straightening and all that.

 

There are better ways to discourage the likes of Google and Amazon than tax harmonisation, but even if that was the option taken, it doesn't make it something that only the EU can do.

 

Individual governments managed to impose corporate sanctions easily enough for national security reasons (e.g. you can't deal with company X because they're dealing with Iran, etc). I don't see why the principle can't be extended to cover large corporations that don't pay their share, or a law enacted to ensure that money derived from UK has to go through a UK cost centre and attract the appropriate corporation tax.

[Barry Sanchez]

I think Barrie forgets that the working man has benefited from a lot from things like the social chapter and other rules.the fact is that its a single market and freedom of movement is one of the corner stones of the EU.we get alot of skilled labour and investment in our industry's from France Germany and India and I would think if we left they would move over to mainland EU over the longer term which would lose working people jobs here.the worlds moved on from 1950s type rhetoric.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

The single market has done exactly what for the working man?

The freedom of movement equates to what exactly as people for over 50 years have gone on holiday abroad in huge numbers and so have skillied migrants.

We do get an awful lot of skilled labour from France and Germany, do you think they would ever or have ever been turned away?

Skilled migrants should and will always be welcomed into any Country let alone ours.

 

Scare mongering with no foundation.

Edited 25 February, 2014 by Barry Sanchez

[Barry Sanchez]

There are better ways to discourage the likes of Google and Amazon than tax harmonisation, but even if that was the option taken, it doesn't make it something that only the EU can do.

 

Individual governments managed to impose corporate sanctions easily enough for national security reasons (e.g. you can't deal with company X because they're dealing with Iran, etc). I don't see why the principle can't be extended to cover large corporations that don't pay their share, or a law enacted to ensure that money derived from UK has to go through a UK cost centre and attract the appropriate corporation tax.

 

Some of my inlaws are very very wealthy, when Hollande brought in this new tax laws that made the business liable for high earners they employ they simply moved their headquarters to Geneva and Tirana and issues no more, there is probably more to it than that but basically they dont pay as much tax as they should do, its not fair and not right.

[solentstars]

The single market has done exactly what for the working man?

The freedom of movement equates to what exactly as people for over 50 years have gone on holiday abroad in huge numbers and so have skillied migrants.

We do get an awful lot of skilled labour from France and Germany, do you think they would ever or have ever been turned away?

Skilled migrants should and will always be welcomed into any Country let alone ours.

 

Scare mongering with no foundation.

i think i rather deal with the reallity of the eu rather than what joe bloggs thinks will be aland of milk and honey with nothing to support that assumption.i don,t see the point of leaving unless we can benifit and seen no evidence to support that yet.

[Barry Sanchez]

i think i rather deal with the reallity of the eu rather than what joe bloggs thinks will be aland of milk and honey with nothing to support that assumption.i don,t see the point of leaving unless we can benifit and seen no evidence to support that yet.

 

Who thinks it will be a land of milk and honey? I dont know but would like some facts on it, why did Scotland get the vote on independence? I take it you disagree with that?

[Lord Duckhunter]

I think Barrie forgets that the working man has benefited from a lot from things like the social chapter and other rules.the fact is that its a single market and freedom of movement is one of the corner stones of the EU.we get alot of skilled labour and investment in our industry's from France Germany and India and I would think if we left they would move over to mainland EU over the longer term which would lose working people jobs here.the worlds moved on from 1950s type rhetoric.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

What a load of nonsense. We had 13 years of a Labour Government , which one of the "social chapter and other rules " would they not have brought in? If the EU is so great for the British working man and has done so much for him in the work place why is Bob Crow so anti EU? Its the normal nonsense we get from pro EU nutters, which ranks alongside "British people wouldn't be able to live in the UK", and my favourite how the EU has ensured years and years of peace in western Europe(hello, Nato anyone).

 

The simple fact of the matter is for every Pole, Bulgarian and Romania who gets a minimum wage unskilled job, that's one less job for the British working man. It also seems rather bizarre and a touch racist that we have open door "anyone can come" immigration from Germany France and Holland , but limit African, Asian and Caribbean citizens.

 

And it really is insulting to lefties everywhere to think that a Labour government wouldn't have brought all the social chapter protections in regardless of the EU.

Edited 25 February, 2014 by Lord Duckhunter

[solentstars]

Who thinks it will be a land of milk and honey? I dont know but would like some facts on it, why did Scotland get the vote on independence? I take it you disagree with that?

i dont know anything about the ins or out and its up to the scots to decide but i do know that they still want to be a member of the eu and i think will vote to stay with us.and we will be stronger has a country with the scots beside us.we are in a global world now and need global solutions to sort out problems climate change ,trade tariffs etc.like i said what are the benefits to us outside our largest tradeing block and what influence would we have business deals and breaking down tariffs in asia,usa etc on our own ....reminds me of the old film the mouse that roared. i,m not prepared to throw away my job on a fantasy world view.

[Lord Duckhunter]

i dont know anything about the ins or out and its up to the scots to decide but i do know that they still want to be a member of the eu and i think will vote to stay with us.and we will be stronger has a country with the scots beside us.we are in a global world now and need global solutions to sort out problems climate change ,trade tariffs etc.like i said what are the benefits to us outside our largest tradeing block and what influence would we have business deals and breaking down tariffs in asia,usa etc on our own ....reminds me of the old film the mouse that roared. i,m not prepared to throw away my job on a fantasy world view.

 

The thought that the worlds 6th largest economy couldn't stand on it's on two feet is complete and utter nonsense. But then the people peddling this nonsense supported the Euro.

[Deano6]

The thought that the worlds 6th largest economy couldn't stand on it's on two feet is complete and utter nonsense. But then the people peddling this nonsense supported the Euro.

 

Interesting you say that, as I see the world's 8th largest economy can't and is itself trying to split. Won't happen though as ultimately Washington won't let them California have 12 Senators where everyone else gets 2.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-to-split-into-six-states-plan-may-get-on-ballot/

[solentstars]

The thought that the worlds 6th largest economy couldn't stand on it's on two feet is complete and utter nonsense. But then the people peddling this nonsense supported the Euro.[/quote what all of them.to my knowledge a lot of those who want to stay in EU were not fans of the euro and that is a separate issue but then I've seen no evidence we would be better outside on our own.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Barry Sanchez]

Deflector shields fully up for the ones stopping democracy.

[Wes Tender]

If you listen to the EU federal nutters (the same ones that urged us to take up the Euro), if we left, not one Brit would be allowed to live in the EU and all our companies would cease trading with the EU. It is clearly nonsense designed to frighten the population and to try and paint the opponents of "ever closer union" as Little Englanders.

 

Will they get away with it? Maybe, they did last time. Even if they don't their standard response, as the French and Irish found out ,will be "vote again".

 

Quite.

 

It really does beggar belief that if we left the EU, the member states would suddenly cease buying our goods, but expect us to continue buying theirs. But all this talk about either leaving the EU or staying in is so very black and white. If continuing trade with Europe is such a good thing, presumably for both parties, then there should be the possibility of maintaining the trade, but dropping all of the other guff that has been landed on us subsequent to the Treaty of Rome by the Treaties of Maastricht and Lisbon.

 

The best way to ensure a strong bargaining position towards that end? A strong majority for the Euro-sceptics in a Referendum. If the Government had any sense, they would have three options in the Referendum; Stay in, leave, stay in solely on a trade basis.

 

Undoubtedly there will be those who say that the other member states will not allow us to be "part of the club" without following the membership rules. In that case, we should call their bluff and leave. In that event, it might ensue that other member states follow our example and form separate trade agreements with us as a separate grouping.

[solentstars]

Quite.

 

It really does beggar belief that if we left the EU, the member states would suddenly cease buying our goods, but expect us to continue buying theirs. But all this talk about either leaving the EU or staying in is so very black and white. If continuing trade with Europe is such a good thing, presumably for both parties, then there should be the possibility of maintaining the trade, but dropping all of the other guff that has been landed on us subsequent to the Treaty of Rome by the Treaties of Maastricht and Lisbon.

 

The best way to ensure a strong bargaining position towards that end? A strong majority for the Euro-sceptics in a Referendum. If the Government had any sense, they would have three options in the Referendum; Stay in, leave, stay in solely on a trade basis.

 

Undoubtedly there will be those who say that the other member states will not allow us to be "part of the club" without following the membership rules. In that case, we should call their bluff and leave. In that event, it might ensue that other member states follow our example and form separate trade agreements with us as a separate grouping.

 

Call there bluff unbelievable. So we want to have full rights for trading but nothing else so what's the point of being in a club if everyone does there own thing. get real let's have a real plan from those who want us out on how they achieve this and timescale and how they will entice investors to a country outside its main market.

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk