The true housing benefit scroungers

[Barry Sanchez]

Good back tracking Barry. So to answer the question, if you make any money on the sale of your house, you will be donating the profit to those less fortunate right?

 

There is no backtracking there at all, this is not unique to London either, Jeff is suggesting everybody move to the poorer areas in London which is a very simplistic notion and one from someone who has not thought it through, there are far too many people for these places to accommodate.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Write it out then as I presumed from that you meant housing costs, what about bills? Internet, phone and food, I suggest you need to think.

 

I did write it. If you look at the ad, Internet is included. Bills does not include food, you classed it seperately so I did. Phone can be what, tenner a month?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Good for you, you did it to make a profit and not from the goodness of your heart, should you? Yes you should but there should be a limit, you are not doing this for social justice are you, bully for you renovating a house and making a profit from it.

 

And there is a limit, I will pay capital gains on it when sold.

Edited 26 February, 2014 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Unbelievable Jeff]

There is no backtracking there at all, this is not unique to London either, Jeff is suggesting everybody move to the poorer areas in London which is a very simplistic notion and one from someone who has not thought it through, there are far too many people for these places to accommodate.

 

No I'm not, I'm suggesting those that can't afford it move to the poorer areas or out of London full stop.

[Tokyo-Saint]

There is no backtracking there at all, this is not unique to London either, Jeff is suggesting everybody move to the poorer areas in London which is a very simplistic notion and one from someone who has not thought it through, there are far too many people for these places to accommodate.

 

So come on Barry, stop dodging the question. Can the residents of Norris Green expect a nice windfall when you sell up and go steal a poor Singaporean's job.

[Tokyo-Saint]

if she is one of the attractive big breasted renters that i sometimes see in certain movies then i would prob let her keep her tv and we would try to find some other arrangement agreeable to both parties

 

What you got in mind bear?

[Bearsy]

What you got in mind bear?

 

i dunno on exact legality of what i was gonna ask for, we should prob ask some genuine slum lords. Sarb, what is you do in this situation?

[Barry Sanchez]

So come on Barry, stop dodging the question. Can the residents of Norris Green expect a nice windfall when you sell up and go steal a poor Singaporean's job.

 

Of course they cant my house will make minimal profit when we hopefully sell this year as we bought in the peak and we are upsizing, it does not stop me wanting to question why this Country values in more than one way housing so much over other Countries, if we had secure social housing that all could access we would not be in this mess.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Of course they cant

 

Ah ok, so it is just others that shouldn't make money from property? Gocha

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Baz is really struggling here, starting to feel a bit sorry for him as Pap has left the argument so he has no-one to copy, and he's confusing himself.

[Special K]

There is a massive difference between a house builder and a house speculator, Jesus wept.

 

What are house builders if not "speculators"? They certainly don't start building only after they've sold all their properties off plan, what a bizarre notion. They take a chance on the market and when the market dries up, as it did in 2008 with a cut in the supply of funding, they take a bath - witness all those developers who went out of, or very nearly went out of, business during the last 6 years.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Of course they cant my house will make minimal profit when we hopefully sell this year as we bought in the peak and we are upsizing, it does not stop me wanting to question why this Country values in more than one way housing so much over other Countries, if we had secure social housing that all could access we would not be in this mess.

 

Hahaha, brilliant.

 

****ing NIMBY.

[pap]

Baz is really struggling here, starting to feel a bit sorry for him as Pap has left the argument so he has no-one to copy, and he's confusing himself.

 

Nope, I've left it at land tax and rent controls.

 

What's your next move? Workhouses? A glorious return to serfdom? The f**kers can't afford sh!t, after all.

[Barry Sanchez]

What are house builders if not "speculators"? They certainly don't start building only after they've sold all their properties off plan, what a bizarre notion. They take a chance on the market and when the market dries up, as it did in 2008 with a cut in the supply of funding, they take a bath - witness all those developers who went out of, or very nearly went out of, business during the last 6 years.

 

Land prices in this Country is a given to make money.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Tell that to property developers in Sumerset.

[buctootim]

Is this the Cluedo thread? I think Sarb made the big eyed children homeless, in the home counties, using cheap borrowed money.

[Barry Sanchez]

Hahaha, brilliant.

 

****ing NIMBY.

 

A nimby what are you on about? Why am I a nimby?

[Barry Sanchez]

Tell that to property developers in Sumerset.

 

Building on a flood plain and then paying £100's for houses when the Government has not invested in flood defences adequately along global warming is not the brightest idea is it?

[Tokyo-Saint]

Doesn't matter though as land prices going up is a given right?

[buctootim]

Tbf to Bazza, even though this isnt what he meant - farm land and woodland prices have been going up relentlessly, localised natural disasters apart, .

 

[Tokyo-Saint]

It's a bubble Tim!

[bridge too far]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26352995

[Unbelievable Jeff]

A nimby what are you on about? Why am I a nimby?

 

You're saying that people shouldn't make a profit on property...unless it's you.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Nope, I've left it at land tax and rent controls.

 

What's your next move? Workhouses? A glorious return to serfdom? The f**kers can't afford sh!t, after all.

 

Go on, show me where I have even got close to this hyperbole? All I am saying is that if you can't afford to live somewhere when you earn the minimum wage, you shouldn't live there.

 

You're the one that crusades for the common man, whist admitting you'd never want to live around them...you sound like a Labour MP.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Is this the Cluedo thread? I think Sarb made the big eyed children homeless, in the home counties, using cheap borrowed money.

 

Nope.

 

I made the big eyed children move, to a place they could afford, using the minimum wage.

[Barry Sanchez]

You're saying that people shouldn't make a profit on property...unless it's you.

 

No I am not, where have I said that? Buy to let is a different kettle of fish as well, there should be limits, housing should not go up as much as it does, why does it? A lack of homes being built obviously drives up the prices, its unfair but I do not blame people as its human nature to take advantage but that should not stop the Government making limits on how many homes people own and let.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

No I am not, where have I said that? Buy to let is a different kettle of fish as well, there should be limits, housing should not go up as much as it does, why does it? A lack of homes being built obviously drives up the prices, its unfair but I do not blame people as its human nature to take advantage but that should not stop the Government making limits on how many homes people own and let.

 

Here you go...

 

Housing shouldn't be used as a profit board, its housing we all need it, to profit from it due to a lack of supply is well fair enough as you can not blame the person but it is morally wrong and the Government should do something about it.

 

Good back tracking Barry. So to answer the question, if you make any money on the sale of your house, you will be donating the profit to those less fortunate right?

 

So come on Barry, stop dodging the question. Can the residents of Norris Green expect a nice windfall when you sell up and go steal a poor Singaporean's job.

 

Of course they cant my house will make minimal profit when we hopefully sell this year as we bought in the peak and we are upsizing, it does not stop me wanting to question why this Country values in more than one way housing so much over other Countries, if we had secure social housing that all could access we would not be in this mess.

[pap]

Go on, show me where I have even got close to this hyperbole? All I am saying is that if you can't afford to live somewhere when you earn the minimum wage, you shouldn't live there.

 

You're the one that crusades for the common man, whist admitting you'd never want to live around them...you sound like a Labour MP.

 

You weren't close, but that's where your road leads; the poor spirited away into workhouse and ghettoes because of market conditions. We're already living in food bank Britain, yet you're telling people to move somewhere affordable. Newsflash, mate. If people are getting housing benefit handouts and still have to visit food banks, life's not affordable.

 

I lived in Kensington Liverpool for ten years, mucker - and only really moved away because of the missus and girls badgering me.

 

Apart from the space, my new place really isn't that different. You can pick up beer in the off licence (as opposed to being served through a hatch in a perspex prison), but that's about it. There was a gang murder in the pub next door a decade ago. I s'pose that happened next door to your gaff too

[bridge too far]

An interesting debate on the pros and cons of rent controls (and longer tenancies)

 

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2013/aug/05/rent-control-debate

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You weren't close, but that's where your road leads; the poor spirited away into workhouse and ghettoes because of market conditions. We're already living in food bank Britain, yet you're telling people to move somewhere affordable. Newsflash, mate. If people are getting housing benefit handouts and still have to visit food banks, life's not affordable.

 

I lived in Kensington Liverpool for ten years, mucker - and only really moved away because of the missus and girls badgering me.

 

Apart from the space, my new place really isn't that different. You can pick up beer in the off licence (as opposed to being served through a hatch in a perspex prison), but that's about it. There was a gang murder in the pub next door a decade ago. I s'pose that happened next door to your gaff too

 

The point is though Pap, it doesn't lead there for normal members of society.

 

I will guarantee that quite a few of these people using foodbanks also smoke, drink, have Sky etc, and they are not people who are living to their means. I dorect you to the program Skint, where they used food banks, yet still managed to find money to smoke etc.

 

We have already discussed, and I have shown examples (can show examples) of places that:

 

- 1 person earning minimum wage can live (house share in London (and I wasn't even using the minimum wage for London which we all know is higher)), house in Liverpool, and you know it can be shown elsewhere).

- 2 person family where both parties earn the minimum wage.

(I agree for 1 parent families/those with disabilities it is not possible, and this is where benefits come into play to help those.)

 

Agreed, it may not be where people want to live, but the freedom of choice comes with earning a higher wage. That's the way the world works, and is the main driver of capitalist states. However, when you live by the rules, do not make excessive amounts of money out of people on benefits I find it frustrating to be likened to the worst of society, as if I am morally corrupt.

[pap]

The point is though Pap, it doesn't lead there for normal members of society.

 

I will guarantee that quite a few of these people using foodbanks also smoke, drink, have Sky etc, and they are not people who are living to their means. I dorect you to the program Skint, where they used food banks, yet still managed to find money to smoke etc.

 

We have already discussed, and I have shown examples (can show examples) of places that:

 

- 1 person earning minimum wage can live (house share in London (and I wasn't even using the minimum wage for London which we all know is higher)), house in Liverpool, and you know it can be shown elsewhere).

- 2 person family where both parties earn the minimum wage.

(I agree for 1 parent families/those with disabilities it is not possible, and this is where benefits come into play to help those.)

 

Agreed, it may not be where people want to live, but the freedom of choice comes with earning a higher wage. That's the way the world works, and is the main driver of capitalist states. However, when you live by the rules, do not make excessive amounts of money out of people on benefits I find it frustrating to be likened to the worst of society, as if I am morally corrupt.

 

Sorry mucker, but we are unlikely to be reconciled on this issue. You're as bad as the MP. Moaning about the habits of the poor, but wanting to make money from them (or us, more specifically).

 

You made your bed. Lie in it.

[bridge too far]

Within the Guardian link I just posted there is another link http://www.londonrents.org.uk/ that gives you options as to what you need, what you earn etc. Worth a look

[Tokyo-Saint]

The good news is, everyone can afford to live in East London or Essex.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Sorry mucker, but we are unlikely to be reconciled on this issue. You're as bad as the MP. Moaning about the habits of the poor, but wanting to make money from them (or us, more specifically).

 

You made your bed. Lie in it.

 

I'll lie in mine, and you can lie in yours, safe in the knowledge that you don't have to live with the people that you defend, yet seem to despise. You use a capitalist society to work your way out of the places that you say you wouldn't want to live again, yet complain when it doesn't follow the misguided rules that you mistakenly believe you live by.

[pap]

I'll lie in mine, and you can lie in yours, safe in the knowledge that you don't have to live with the people that you defend, yet seem to despise. You use a capitalist society to work your way out of the places that you say you wouldn't want to live again, yet complain when it doesn't follow the misguided rules that you mistakenly believe you live by.

 

Where exactly do you think I live, Jeff?

 

How does not liking having your daughter see smack addicts shoot up on the street equate with your laughable charge that I despise the common man?

 

I reserve my enmity for scroungers like yourself, mate.

[Sour Mash]

Food banks are great bits of left-wing propaganda - hand out free food and plenty of people, unsurprisingly, will accept it.

[Sour Mash]

Within the Guardian link I just posted there is another link http://www.londonrents.org.uk/ that gives you options as to what you need, what you earn etc. Worth a look

It is market forces though - half the world wants to live and work in London.

[pap]

Food banks are great bits of left-wing propaganda - hand out free food and plenty of people, unsurprisingly, will accept it.

 

Is it the Communists, Sour Mash?

 

Is the Aurora rolling up the Thames firing salvos of sarnies at hungry people?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Where exactly do you think I live, Jeff?

 

How does not liking having your daughter see smack addicts shoot up on the street equate with your laughable charge that I despise the common man?

 

I reserve my enmity for scroungers like yourself, mate.

 

And I agree, I wouldn't want my daughter to see that either. We are both cut from the same cloth, we both want the best for our families, but I accept I do it through the capitalist state, yet you hold yourself as some sort of martyr/moral superior because you haven't bought a second house (yet).

 

[bridge too far]

It is market forces though - half the world wants to live and work in London.

 

Going round in circles here - if market forces drive rents up so very high then people like shop workers, hospital staff, bus drivers and even teachers can't afford to live there and, if they all follow UJ's suggestion, they'll all move out to cheaper areas. Who will then run the essential services in London (or even other big UK cities like Oxford)?

 

Not sure that 'half the world' wants to live in London (I did live there once and I wouldn't go back there for all the tea in China) - it's interesting to see how other capital cities manage the situation so much better than the UK does.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Not really, I looked into moving to Amsterdam a few years ago and you have to pay a letting agent just to view the flat over there.

[buctootim]

Not really, I looked into moving to Amsterdam a few years ago and you have to pay a letting agent just to view the flat over there.

 

I think they use the term 'madam' or 'maid' for those letting agents.

[Tokyo-Saint]

I was only looking for a very short stay let Tim.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Going round in circles here - if market forces drive rents up so very high then people like shop workers, hospital staff, bus drivers and even teachers can't afford to live there and, if they all follow UJ's suggestion, they'll all move out to cheaper areas. Who will then run the essential services in London (or even other big UK cities like Oxford)?

 

Not sure that 'half the world' wants to live in London (I did live there once and I wouldn't go back there for all the tea in China) - it's interesting to see how other capital cities manage the situation so much better than the UK does.

 

I suggested they move out, but to commutable distances. And the people you mention aren't likely on minimum wage, so won't need to move so far out.

[pap]

And I agree, I wouldn't want my daughter to see that either. We are both cut from the same cloth, we both want the best for our families, but I accept I do it through the capitalist state, yet you hold yourself as some sort of martyr/moral superior because you haven't bought a second house (yet).

 

 

Arf.

 

At least be consistent. What am I? Martyr or despiser of the poor.

 

What I actually am is an exporter. We receive no benefits, and 100% of my income comes from overseas, not the pockets of my fellow taxpayers.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Arf.

 

At least be consistent. What am I? Martyr or despiser of the poor.

 

What I actually am is an exporter. We receive no benefits, and 100% of my income comes from overseas, not the pockets of my fellow taxpayers.

 

And this is the problem, you sir are a juxtaposition. You say you don't want toblive around crack addicts, and neither should those on the minimum wage. So who do you want to live there? Can't be other crack addicts, cos then you are segregating society...which isn't a good thing.

[pap]

And this is the problem, you sir are a juxtaposition. You say you don't want toblive around crack addicts, and neither should those on the minimum wage. So who do you want to live there? Can't be other crack addicts, cos then you are segregating society...which isn't a good thing.

 

Nah, I just think about things a bit more.

 

Like them crack addicts. You're treating them as if they're part of the furniture (I've never mentioned them, btw - was talking heroin before, Hounslow-street-cred boy). I wonder why we have them in the first place.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Nah, I just think about things a bit more.

 

Like them crack addicts. You're treating them as if they're part of the furniture (I've never mentioned them, btw - was talking heroin before, Hounslow-street-cred boy). I wonder why we have them in the first place.

 

Answer the question...

[pap]

Answer the question...

 

What question? Oh, the one that requires me to subscribe to your world view in order to answer it?

 

I don't think we should have heavy substance abusers at all, and I wonder how the f**k they got there in the first place, or why they would get involved knowing the risks. Everyone has seen the before and after pictures; why would someone put themselves through that the first time, let alone time after time? Ultimately, that sort of self-destructive behaviour is a big f**k you to yourself, your family and society in general.

 

So yeah, I'd probably spend time and effort preventing it from happening in the first place, get treatment for those that were on it and while that was all being sorted out, house young families in new social housing build that's tied to the same sort of responsible behaviour you need to get a mortgage.

[Sour Mash]

Going round in circles here - if market forces drive rents up so very high then people like shop workers, hospital staff, bus drivers and even teachers can't afford to live there and, if they all follow UJ's suggestion, they'll all move out to cheaper areas. Who will then run the essential services in London (or even other big UK cities like Oxford)?

 

Not sure that 'half the world' wants to live in London (I did live there once and I wouldn't go back there for all the tea in China) - it's interesting to see how other capital cities manage the situation so much better than the UK does.

Then market forces will increase their wage to attract the staff needed, instead of being subsidised by tax payers.