Four statistics that I think are significant and I'm surprised no-one has mentioned

[Rasiak-9-]

This season:

 

1) 9 of our 10 wins have involved us keeping a clean sheet.

 

2) Our record in matches in which our opponents have scored at least once: 1-8-6

 

3) Our record in matches in which we've conceded the first goal: 0-5-5.

 

4) Our record in matches in which we've been behind at some point during the game: 0-6-8.

 

So all in all, things don't look great in the 'facing adversity' department; we basically need everything to go swimmingly in order to win a match.

 

The last time we came from behind to win was at home to Villa 18 months ago.

 

Teams who score even once against us have always taken at least 2 points off us (with the completely un-threatening Hull consolation being the one and only exception). You might say this is pretty standard as obviously this stat basically gives our opponents an automatic one-goal head start, but when you consider that the bottom club, Fulham, have managed to win three matches this season despite conceding it does look pretty concerning.

 

This really is a pretty damning indictment of just how poor we are going forward against teams/defenses who have something to defend.

[whelk]

6 draws this season when we have been behind is better than some http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/ptsgain.html

[Barry Sanchez]

We seem a bit all or nothing sometimes. If it goes well, it goes very well, if not, we probably won't win. But that's the way for most teams without prolific scorers. We're like a lower version of Chelsea, dominate games but just don't make the most of it.

 

Be interesting to see where we'd be with the same team except a forward like Suarez or Aguero. Given the amount of the ball we've had I'm pretty sure we'd be very close if not in the CL places. That's why those players cost the silly money.

 

 

I thought thats where we were aiming with the current squad? In October certain posters we saying how good we were and even our manager was aiming for it, possibly someone could take responsibility for poor expensive signings and players simply not prepared to settle in?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I think also no club has lost more points from a winning position.

 

We need to work on our finishing to start earning the points our excellent football warrants.

[trousers]

This season:

 

1) 9 of our 10 wins have involved us keeping a clean sheet.

 

2) Our record in matches in which our opponents have scored at least once: 1-8-6

 

3) Our record in matches in which we've conceded the first goal: 0-5-5.

 

4) Our record in matches in which we've been behind at some point during the game: 0-6-8.

 

So all in all, things don't look great in the 'facing adversity' department; we basically need everything to go swimmingly in order to win a match.

 

The last time we came from behind to win was at home to Villa 18 months ago.

 

Teams who score even once against us have always taken at least 2 points off us (with the completely un-threatening Hull consolation being the one and only exception). You might say this is pretty standard as obviously this stat basically gives our opponents an automatic one-goal head start, but when you consider that the bottom club, Fulham, have managed to win three matches this season despite conceding it does look pretty concerning.

 

This really is a pretty damning indictment of just how poor we are going forward against teams/defenses who have something to defend.

 

Interesting stats posted in a rational and constructive manner - cheers for the research

 

(That wasn't meant to sound patronising if it did - just highlighting that there are ways of putting over negative stuff in a different way to some on here!)

[Faz]

I believe we are on a journey, and hopefully MP will be with us to see it through. We are really establishing our method of play, and I truly believe we are only two or three players away from a first team that can seriously challenge.

 

The issue is that this is only our 2nd year back so we haven't built the depth we need.

 

Already looking forward to next year!

[DuncanRG]

That is rather concerning. How does it compare to last season, I wonder? I can't remember coming from behind too often.

 

Managers and pundits are always lazily describing teams who come back from behind as having 'character' - we know we've got that, but it's clearly a different kind.

[trousers]

I believe we are on a journey, and hopefully MP will be with us to see it through. We are really establishing our method of play, and I truly believe we are only two or three players away from a first team that can seriously challenge.

 

The issue is that this is only our 2nd year back so we haven't built the depth we need.

 

Already looking forward to next year!

 

Agree with that Faz. The club often reiterate that we are part way through 'a project' and that we will always play the same way...regardless of who we are playing,where we are playing or what the score is at any moment in time. In other words, we don't have a "plan B" because we don't WANT a Plan B. It's a bit like the Tories' approach to dealing with the financial crisis.... They've got a Plan A and they're gonna see it through.... ( sorry, possibly not the best analogy...)

 

Some might view that as blinkered dogmatism.... Others might see it as a conviction of principles.

 

It doesn't surprise me that our results reflect an "all or nothing" approach to our club's philosophy. When it works it works rather well, when it doesn't we come unstuck.

 

Barcelona, whilst on a different planet success wise, have the same philosophy - they play their way regardless of the opposition and the circumstances of a given game. We're following the same philosophy. Yes, we're a million miles away from where Barcelona are but the theory is that if we persevere with this "Dogmatic" approach for a few years we'll start to see the fruits of out labour in time.

 

All of which requires patience....which, given the fickle nature of football fans, is where the philosophy struggles most to succeed...

Edited 23 February, 2014 by trousers

[stevegrant]

That is rather concerning. How does it compare to last season, I wonder? I can't remember coming from behind too often.

We dropped a horrendous number of points from winning positions last season, 6 points in our first three games (against the two Manchester clubs) and 29 in total

 

In terms of an arbitrary "points dropped from a winning position per games played" score, last season we dropped 0.76 points per game from winning positions, compared to this season where we've dropped 0.55 points per game.

 

Interesting figures: we led at some stage during 21 of our 38 games last season (55%), a surprisingly high number considering we were in the bottom 6 for most of the season, while we've led at some stage in 16 of our 27 games this season (59%). A surprisingly small improvement there considering how our overall performances and results have improved, although I guess our durability and ability to actually hold onto the leads we get is the main reason.

[Batman]

We dropped a horrendous number of points from winning positions last season, 6 points in our first three games (against the two Manchester clubs) and 29 in total

 

In terms of an arbitrary "points dropped from a winning position per games played" score, last season we dropped 0.76 points per game from winning positions, compared to this season where we've dropped 0.55 points per game.

 

Interesting figures: we led at some stage during 21 of our 38 games last season (55%), a surprisingly high number considering we were in the bottom 6 for most of the season, while we've led at some stage in 16 of our 27 games this season (59%). A surprisingly small improvement there considering how our overall performances and results have improved, although I guess our durability and ability to actually hold onto the leads we get is the main reason.

without looking too deep

seems the likes of lovren, vic and the possession game allows us to gain points when we only score 1

[Dig Dig]

Also need to consider how ****ing deep teams a lot teams play against us, especially if they manage to get ahead. Scoring against 9 players all defending is as tough as it comes and you need real quality up top.

[Ohio Saint]

So, If you score goals, and don't concede any, you win more games?

 

Hold on, I need a while to get a grip on this concept.

[trousers]

without looking too deep

seems the likes of lovren, vic and the possession game allows us to gain points when we only score 1

 

Yep - Adkins priority was to score more goals than the opponent whereas Pochettino's is to concede less than the opponent.

 

Yes, a different means to the same end but a significantly different philosophy IMO (which may of course be shot to pieces by the stats!)

[trousers]

Also need to consider how ****ing deep teams a lot teams play against us, especially if they manage to get ahead. Scoring against 9 players all defending is as tough as it comes and you need real quality up top.

 

I was thinking this yesterday whilst watching MotD. In several of the other games the defences seemed relatively fluid, whereas teams' defences seem to go very 'rigid' against us. I guess this is what is known in the trade as a backhanded compliment but it obviously puts us at a disadvantage if teams are tightening up their defence to combat our 'uniquely' dogmatic style of play.

 

(Some of the above observation/opinion may be me using Saints tinted glasses.)

[Wes Tender]

I thought thats where we were aiming with the current squad? In October certain posters we saying how good we were and even our manager was aiming for it, possibly someone could take responsibility for poor expensive signings and players simply not prepared to settle in?

 

It's not easy signing players from a different country, is it? How's that Wolf's Winkie bloke doing at Norwich? Somebody said that we ought to be making signings like him. I watched him today and he didn't impress me much.

[dubai_phil]

I think also no club has lost more points from a winning position.

 

We need to work on our finishing to start earning the points our excellent football warrants.

 

What we clearly could do with is someone who understands the Psychological side of sport, that can instil a winning mentality, get the players to take more ownership, more mental toughness (especially in front of goal).

 

Someone who really understands that Sport at an elite level is more than simply running around in little patterns and being skillful.

 

If only we knew where to find a World Class Expert in that type of stuff..........

 

 

Oh

[ottery st mary]

What we clearly could do with is someone who understands the Psychological side of sport, that can instil a winning mentality, get the players to take more ownership, more mental toughness (especially in front of goal).

 

Someone who really understands that Sport at an elite level is more than simply running around in little patterns and being skillful.

 

If only we knew where to find a World Class Expert in that type of stuff..........

 

 

Oh

 

 

Time to call for Ralphie....

 

Ms Liebherr knows a good man for said position:)

[Bobbyboy]

There was also that stat so much of the first part of the season about us having the best defence in Europe (statistically) for a few weeks. How did we do that? All down to Lovren and Wanyama??

 

This thread reminded me that the whole 'best defence' thing seems such a long time ago now.

[stevegrant]

There was also that stat so much of the first part of the season about us having the best defence in Europe (statistically) for a few weeks. How did we do that? All down to Lovren and Wanyama??

 

This thread reminded me that the whole 'best defence' thing seems such a long time ago now.

Not entirely down to Lovren and Wanyama, it's been a team effort, but they certainly had an effect. The problem with the high pressing game that we've been employing where possible this season is that it's physically demanding (even more so than most other teams) - as a result, I think we've seen a natural drop-off in the intensity of that gameplan as the season has progressed, and "lesser" teams have started employing more defensive methods against us to combat the fact that we like to have people running in behind the opposition - if they sit deep with 9 or 10 behind the ball, we don't move the ball or players quickly enough at the moment to be able to break them down.

 

I think a lot of that is due to fatigue, and we still have a relatively small first-team squad so we find it difficult to rotate. For example, Jay Rodriguez has played in every single game this season, and he in particular has looked jaded in the last few games, but we don't have another player who offers the same type of attributes as he does, and he's important to the way we play, so he's played every game as a result. Osvaldo was brought in as a succession plan for Lambert, but that obviously hasn't worked out, so Lambert's had to play more games than we probably would have anticipated in the summer.

 

We haven't got worse at defending as the season has progressed, but we've not been so relentless on our opponents (because we've been physically unable to do so) as the season has progressed which means our defence has come under more pressure in recent months. It obviously doesn't help when the opposition seem to have a remarkably high shot-on-target conversion rate (I don't have stats to back that up, by the way, just a gut feeling based on yesterday and the Stoke game).

[trousers]

Not entirely down to Lovren and Wanyama, it's been a team effort, but they certainly had an effect. The problem with the high pressing game that we've been employing where possible this season is that it's physically demanding (even more so than most other teams) - as a result, I think we've seen a natural drop-off in the intensity of that gameplan as the season has progressed, and "lesser" teams have started employing more defensive methods against us to combat the fact that we like to have people running in behind the opposition - if they sit deep with 9 or 10 behind the ball, we don't move the ball or players quickly enough at the moment to be able to break them down.

 

I think a lot of that is due to fatigue, and we still have a relatively small first-team squad so we find it difficult to rotate. For example, Jay Rodriguez has played in every single game this season, and he in particular has looked jaded in the last few games, but we don't have another player who offers the same type of attributes as he does, and he's important to the way we play, so he's played every game as a result. Osvaldo was brought in as a succession plan for Lambert, but that obviously hasn't worked out, so Lambert's had to play more games than we probably would have anticipated in the summer.

 

We haven't got worse at defending as the season has progressed, but we've not been so relentless on our opponents (because we've been physically unable to do so) as the season has progressed which means our defence has come under more pressure in recent months. It obviously doesn't help when the opposition seem to have a remarkably high shot-on-target conversion rate (I don't have stats to back that up, by the way, just a gut feeling based on yesterday and the Stoke game).

 

Agree with that analysis Steve. Sums things up nicely.

[captainchris]

Not entirely down to Lovren and Wanyama, it's been a team effort, but they certainly had an effect. The problem with the high pressing game that we've been employing where possible this season is that it's physically demanding (even more so than most other teams) - as a result, I think we've seen a natural drop-off in the intensity of that gameplan as the season has progressed, and "lesser" teams have started employing more defensive methods against us to combat the fact that we like to have people running in behind the opposition - if they sit deep with 9 or 10 behind the ball, we don't move the ball or players quickly enough at the moment to be able to break them down.

 

I think a lot of that is due to fatigue, and we still have a relatively small first-team squad so we find it difficult to rotate. For example, Jay Rodriguez has played in every single game this season, and he in particular has looked jaded in the last few games, but we don't have another player who offers the same type of attributes as he does, and he's important to the way we play, so he's played every game as a result. Osvaldo was brought in as a succession plan for Lambert, but that obviously hasn't worked out, so Lambert's had to play more games than we probably would have anticipated in the summer.

 

We haven't got worse at defending as the season has progressed, but we've not been so relentless on our opponents (because we've been physically unable to do so) as the season has progressed which means our defence has come under more pressure in recent months. It obviously doesn't help when the opposition seem to have a remarkably high shot-on-target conversion rate (I don't have stats to back that up, by the way, just a gut feeling based on yesterday and the Stoke game).

Lmao - Jay is Jaded !!!

[saintbletch]

Not entirely down to Lovren and Wanyama, it's been a team effort, but they certainly had an effect. The problem with the high pressing game that we've been employing where possible this season is that it's physically demanding (even more so than most other teams) - as a result, I think we've seen a natural drop-off in the intensity of that gameplan as the season has progressed, and "lesser" teams have started employing more defensive methods against us to combat the fact that we like to have people running in behind the opposition - if they sit deep with 9 or 10 behind the ball, we don't move the ball or players quickly enough at the moment to be able to break them down.

 

I think a lot of that is due to fatigue, and we still have a relatively small first-team squad so we find it difficult to rotate. For example, Jay Rodriguez has played in every single game this season, and he in particular has looked jaded in the last few games, but we don't have another player who offers the same type of attributes as he does, and he's important to the way we play, so he's played every game as a result. Osvaldo was brought in as a succession plan for Lambert, but that obviously hasn't worked out, so Lambert's had to play more games than we probably would have anticipated in the summer.

 

We haven't got worse at defending as the season has progressed, but we've not been so relentless on our opponents (because we've been physically unable to do so) as the season has progressed which means our defence has come under more pressure in recent months. It obviously doesn't help when the opposition seem to have a remarkably high shot-on-target conversion rate (I don't have stats to back that up, by the way, just a gut feeling based on yesterday and the Stoke game).

 

I think can add the Villa game to the impressive opposition shot-to-goal ratio too.

[diggers]

So, If you score goals, and don't concede any, you win more games?

 

Hold on, I need a while to get a grip on this concept.

 

"LIKE"

[david in sweden]

This season:

 

1) 9 of our 10 wins have involved us keeping a clean sheet.

 

2) Our record in matches in which our opponents have scored at least once: 1-8-6

 

3) Our record in matches in which we've conceded the first goal: 0-5-5.

 

4) Our record in matches in which we've been behind at some point during the game: 0-6-8.

 

So all in all, things don't look great in the 'facing adversity' department; we basically need everything to go swimmingly in order to win a match.

 

The last time we came from behind to win was at home to Villa 18 months ago.

 

Teams who score even once against us have always taken at least 2 points off us (with the completely un-threatening Hull consolation being the one and only exception). You might say this is pretty standard as obviously this stat basically gives our opponents an automatic one-goal head start, but when you consider that the bottom club, Fulham, have managed to win three matches this season despite conceding it does look pretty concerning.

 

This really is a pretty damning indictment of just how poor we are going forward against teams/defenses who have something to defend.

 

 

As someone who appreciates the value of studying a few stats. I compliment you Rasiak-9 .

It's pretty clear that we are capable of lots of possession, AND creating lots of chances but without necessarily scoring lots of goals. and so I've looked at a few stats. myself.

 

Those 10 games (clean sheet wins)..we scored 19 goals from a total of 132 shots. (roughly speaking) only 1 goal every 7 shots. Whilst the majority were scored by RL, Jay Rod or AL...it's still a low %.

 

our AVERAGE possession in those games was 57% - 43% and our defence restricted the opposition to only 91 shots. (Also noted that Artur Boruc was goalie in 9 of those 10 games).

 

I looked at those 8 games we lost...where 3 of the lost games were at home.

...we had even more than (AVERAGE) possession. 59%-41%.....yet managed only 7 goals (from 114 shots), whilst conceding 20 goals from only 83 shots by opponents.

 

Anyone who saw the Villa game at SMS will have suffered the worst...... we had 77% possession during the game and managed 21 shots against their 6 efforts, but still lost 2-3

 

Boruc was goalie in 4 lost games and we conceded 9 goals, and whilst he was out injured .....Gazzaniga and KD let in 11 between them in 4 lost games.

If you're looking to blame defenders.......? Both Fonte and Lovren featured in 6 games each either partnered together or with Yoshida and /or Hooiveld (2 games each).

 

So we might conclude that our excellent full backs.....all look great going forward, but haven't learned all the finer points of defending yet.

It does seem that despite the attacking fervour, we tend to go to pieces after conceding - Saturday at WHam was a perfect example. 69-31 possession, 25 shots against their 10 ...lost 1-3.

 

What we do lack is the " extra " goal tally that should be coming from our midfielders.

so far in 27 games Steve Davis has scored 2, Schneiderlin 1 but neither Wanyama or Cork has scored at all. Our centrebacks are much better, with Fonte having scored 3, Lovren 2 and Yoshida 1.

 

CONCLUSION : lots of possession - even in losing games, .....more shots (in some cases many more) than the opposition but very poor with on-target shooting. SO TELL ME SOMETHING NEW

 

Perhaps they really do need Ralph Kreuger to help out in the " confidence department."

Edited 24 February, 2014 by david in sweden

[positivepete]

So, If you score goals, and don't concede any, you win more games?

 

Hold on, I need a while to get a grip on this concept.

 

Over the history of the premier league conceding no goals has been worth more points than scoring two goals.

[corky morris]

I don't think we know what to do when teams sit deep. We lack pace & width in my opinion. Look at the team on Saturday. It did not include our 3 most expensive players. Creativity & goal scoring is the most expensive assets to buy. Hopefully we will solve that in the summer.

[studentsaint]

That just tells me that we don't have goals in us. That was ok early on when we had a superhuman defence. But the fact that hull are the only team that we've beaten without keeping a clean sheet is astonishing.

[Sour Mash]

That just tells me that we don't have goals in us. That was ok early on when we had a superhuman defence. But the fact that hull are the only team that we've beaten without keeping a clean sheet is astonishing.

How does that tell you "we don't have goals in us". We've scored goals this year, we've also conceded, both pretty much proportionately.

[stevegrant]

How does that tell you "we don't have goals in us". We've scored goals this year, we've also conceded, both pretty much proportionately.

Compared to the corresponding fixtures last season, we've scored the same number of goals away from home (17) and three more at home (21 compared to 18 ).

 

Defensively, we're one goal better off at home (16 compared to 17) but a massive 15 away from home (16 compared to 31).

[Mystic Force]

Watching us play seems that we have to work a lot harder for each goal we score than the opposition, plus when they score we seem to give them an extra one straight away on many occasions. As if letting in one shatters their confidence. We looked great until west ham got a lucky break and then after that I knew we were in for a difficult afternoon and maybe the players have fallen in to that mentality too. We dont seem to have a game changer in our pocket either, as when we are chasing a game we often seem to shoot ourselves in the foot and let them double their lead.

[AK]

In my opinion by far our most disappointing statistic this season is the fact we have only won 5 out of 13 home games in the league.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I'm not sure I agree with the "Wanyama must be in the side for us to win" brigade. His game is arguably best suited to being a destroyer breaking up opposition (has not really shown that as well since returning from injury TBF), whereas Cork is more able to hold the ball and pass well, so you would think Cork is more suited to our style of play given that Morgan is a good disruptor too. Perhaps it would be better to put Cork with Wanyama?

[david in sweden]

I'm not sure I agree with the "Wanyama must be in the side for us to win" brigade. His game is arguably best suited to being a destroyer breaking up opposition (has not really shown that as well since returning from injury TBF), whereas Cork is more able to hold the ball and pass well, so you would think Cork is more suited to our style of play given that Morgan is a good disruptor too. Perhaps it would be better to put Cork with Wanyama?

 

I'm inclined to agree with you on that on.

 

Whilst it was good to see his very physical style of play, and good tackling skills....I was a little disappointed in that several times he was slow to pass and got caught in possession ....and his final passes were often a very poor standard, and as a midfielder I was expecting a few goals from him.

 

I hope he doesn't come into the category of players who score one or two really outstanding goals (his was. v Barcelona) and then fail to produce anything afterwards.

 

Don't get me wrong; I like his style, but I hope he's been able to improve in other ways since his recent injury lay-off.

[Rasiak-9-]

Glad that people appreciated my research and that it provoked some constructive discussion in the wake of the last two very disappointing matches.

 

I must admit however, that I am a little surprised at the focus on the defensive side of our game; surely the fact that we have literally never won if our opponent scores a goal (of any meaning) against us this season ought to hint that the problem is up top? Or if not simply with our forwards per se, then in the way we attack teams that get behind the ball?

 

People have mentioned that its extremely difficult to break teams down who just get 11 men behind the ball, but is that really true? Sometimes getting 11 men behind the ball and in doing so, completely surrendering the midfield, is the worst thing you can possibly do.

 

Take the Man City 7-0 Norwich from earlier this season. Norwich attempted to do precisely that, but in doing so, sat off City completely, so that when they did win the ball or get a block in and clear it, City were able to recover the ball quickly, reload the cannon so to speak, and just try the hell again!

 

It ended up with Norwich being mauled. Had they tried to at least contest the game as a football match they might have come away with a semblance of respectability after a 4-1, 4-2, 5-2 or something.

 

Anyway, the point is that no, not everyone finds it that difficult to break teams down that sit behind the ball, protecting either their lead or their point. We do. Us. Specifically.

 

As I say; we haven't been able to come from behind to win in over 18 months now! and as (I hope) my OP shows, its not an isolated statistic.

[Rasiak-9-]

Also need to consider how ****ing deep teams a lot teams play against us, especially if they manage to get ahead. Scoring against 9 players all defending is as tough as it comes and you need real quality up top.

 

Is it really? For everyone?

 

Again, I re-iterate my point of the largest winning margin between two teams this season, the Manchester City 7-0 Norwich and the way the two teams played there.

 

Furthermore look at Manchester United under Fergie. I don't remember them getting held by teams that went backs-to-the-wall. When teams were able to beat United it was because they played them with neither fear or respect. When teams played against them with two much of both and sat behind the ball, United would gleefully take advantage of that and duly beat them out of sight 2, 3 or 4-0 with ease.

 

I'm not one to moan or complain, I think its been a brilliant season for Saints regardless of the way we went out of the cups. 8th, if we make it, would be an incredible achievement four years after League 1 on a -10. But on this issue, I think our team does have a major weakness. As has been said on the West Ham response thread. We've drawn or lost against them in our last 5 meetings with them, so they must be doing something right.

[Rasiak-9-]

Thats another match we couldn't win after conceding a meaningful goal (an equaliser or an opponent taking the lead).

 

Unless it happens in the remaining four matches of this season or the opening our of next, it will be fully two calendar years since we came from behind to win a Premiership match.

 

This is is a stat I've told fans of teams up and down the league, all of whom are flabbergasted it could apply to any club let alone a side in the top-half of the table.

 

It is really, really, really easy to defend against us once you've got a result you're looking to hang on to.

[Appy]

Thats another match we couldn't win after conceding a meaningful goal (an equaliser or an opponent taking the lead).

 

Unless it happens in the remaining four matches of this season or the opening our of next, it will be fully two calendar years since we came from behind to win a Premiership match.

 

This is is a stat I've told fans of teams up and down the league, all of whom are flabbergasted it could apply to any club let alone a side in the top-half of the table.

 

It is really, really, really easy to defend against us once you've got a result you're looking to hang on to.

 

We weren't in the Premier League 2 calender years ago.

[Turkish]

Good stats those and riveting stuff. Especially the ones about tending to win games when we keep a clean sheet and lose ones when we don't.

[norwaysaint]

I thought thats where we were aiming with the current squad? In October certain posters we saying how good we were and even our manager was aiming for it, possibly someone could take responsibility for poor expensive signings and players simply not prepared to settle in?

Seldom right and wrong again Barry!

 

remember that the link you posted to back this up last time actually had MP saying that it was unrealistic to expect CL football any time in the near future? The only reason he even mentioned it was because the journalist asked him directly.

 

Certain posters, well, on the famous thread that gets mentioned time and again, there was a grand total of...TWO posters who thought we should be able to crack the top 6 with about thirty saying we shouldn't. So yes, certain posters as long as you're the type to obsess over the view of a tiny minority.

 

get back to over-hyping Norwich Barry, it's your level.

[Rasiak-9-]

Good stats those and riveting stuff. Especially the ones about tending to win games when we keep a clean sheet and lose ones when we don't.

 

You aren't surprised at this stat? You don't think it betrays any sort of weakness in the team? It doesn't concern you at all that we haven't managed to gain a single win when conceding an equaliser or going behind?

 

Give me an honest answer instead of a sarcastic, predictable response that already been posted anyway.

 

Guess how many teams in the league have a similar stat? None. Zero. Zilch. Cardiff, Fulham, West Ham, West Brom, Hull and Norwich have all come from behind to win games whilst Sunderland and Swansea are able to win games after re-taking the lead.

 

We haven't. We are the only team in the league that has this revolting stat hanging over our head.

 

The last time we won a Premiership game having conceded gone behind or conceding an equaliser was the 2-1 against Chelsea 30th March 2013. Over a year ago.

 

We weren't in the Premier League 2 calender years ago.

 

"Unless it happens in the remaining four matches of this season or the opening four of next, it will be fully two calendar years since we came from behind to win a Premiership match."

 

We beat Villa in our fifth game of 12/13. I make that 8 more Premiership matches until it will be two seasons since our last victory after conceding the opening goal.

[John Boy Saint]

Rather bizarrely when we have conceded a goal to put us behind I have noticed the players body language, seems to take on a collective air of forgetting how to play football, almost "I don't like this I want to go home".

Very strange when we have all seen how very comfortable they are with the ball.

[Big Ron fan]

The problem is the midfield. We regularly play with 3 non-creative midfielders (take your pick from Cork, Vic, Morgan, Davis, JWP) who create few chances and score few goals. We have 3 good quality attacking players (indeed, all are in the England squad), but don't create anything like enough good chances for them.

 

The lack of pace in the side, especially without JRod, clearly is a handicap too, which makes it very surprising that Clyne was left on the bench until the last 20 minutes v Cardiff.

 

Personally, I think the stats quoted are symptomatic of MoPo's limitations as a coach and that he is very overrated, but I realise that will be a minority view on here.

[Dig Dig]

The problem is the midfield. We regularly play with 3 non-creative midfielders (take your pick from Cork, Vic, Morgan, Davis, JWP) who create few chances and score few goals. We have 3 good quality attacking players (indeed, all are in the England squad), but don't create anything like enough good chances for them.

 

The lack of pace in the side, especially without JRod, clearly is a handicap too, which makes it very surprising that Clyne was left on the bench until the last 20 minutes v Cardiff.

 

Personally, I think the stats quoted are symptomatic of MoPo's limitations as a coach and that he is very overrated, but I realise that will be a minority view on here.

 

If Pochettino is limited and over rated, presumably you think we should be top 6 with the squad we have?

[Crazy Diamond]

I posted a few weeks ago that we had dropped more points than anyone else and could be second in the league had we held on. I was trolling apparently. Amazing how people's minds change so quickly.

[Window Cleaner]

The problem is the midfield. We regularly play with 3 non-creative midfielders (take your pick from Cork, Vic, Morgan, Davis, JWP) who create few chances and score few goals. We have 3 good quality attacking players (indeed, all are in the England squad), but don't create anything like enough good chances for them.

 

The lack of pace in the side, especially without JRod, clearly is a handicap too, which makes it very surprising that Clyne was left on the bench until the last 20 minutes v Cardiff.

 

Personally, I think the stats quoted are symptomatic of MoPo's limitations as a coach and that he is very overrated, but I realise that will be a minority view on here.

 

 

People need to get over this "it's the midfield" fixation, 2 of them aren't there to score goals, they're basically defenders.

Where we err is in attack, we are not clinical in our finishing. I think we had 15 shots on goal on Saturday and failed to score, Liverpool had 10 and scored 3 times. Lambert drops too deep and gets under the feet of the creative midfielders so they drop deeper and deeper. Gallagher isn't up to the job of leading the line and Lallana is hit and miss with his shooting.

We needed to sign a keeper and a striker in January but the place was in a mess and we did absolutely feck all so we are now paying the price for that.

Edited 14 April, 2014 by Window Cleaner

[NewYorkSaint]

There's another interpretation of these stats. You can make the case that Saints have this season deliberately adopted a blitzkrieg approach. We enter games at full pelt. Does anyone have stats on how many goals scored in first 30 mins compared to other teams? I suspect across the season it's pretty high. We terrify teams in opening part of the game. Lallana, Schneiderlin and others flying at full pace. It's incredible to watch, and it's often seen us take the lead when others had no expectation that we would. Then in 2nd half we pay the price.

 

Overall, I think the strategy has worked - hence equal highest ever league position - though I also think there's a case for more nuanced version of it that saves a little more energy for later in the game.

 

I don't think you can argue that we're weak psychologically. In games where we've gone a goal down against top teams we've often come flying back impressively. I think it's more about energy management.

[Gemmel]

If you looked at those stats without knowing anything about the team or having seen them play, it would be reasonable conclusion to think that it was a young and inexperienced squad, which ultimately is what we are.

 

There is a conflict between Poch's (And the clubs - certainly in the Cortese era) ambitions and the strategy of blooding the younger players, but personally I think Poch has done a fantastic job of balancing that conflict.

 

Where the stats become encouraging, is that it shows a clear way to improvement. That doesn't mean it will be easy or just happen overnight, but clear and defined areas to address, plus the fact that they will a years experience under their belts for next season, it starts to feel pretty exciting.

 

That of course is on the assumption that key personnel stay and I don't under estimate the importance of that, but if Poch stays and core of the team stay (I am resigned to losing one or two players) then we have a real platform to build on and address the areas that the stats highlight.

[Lighthouse]

Cardiff was only the 4th time we've lost to a team currently below us in the table, in 22 games. That's a pretty good record, especially when 2 of them were smash and grab raids by Cardiff and Villa, who have been otherwise hopeless.

[Rasiak-9-]

Good stats those and riveting stuff. Especially the ones about tending to win games when we keep a clean sheet and lose ones when we don't.

 

You aren't surprised at this stat? You don't think it betrays any sort of weakness in the team? It doesn't concern you at all that we haven't managed to gain a single win when conceding an equaliser or going behind?

 

Give me an honest answer instead of a sarcastic, predictable response that already been posted anyway.

 

Still waiting pal.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Still waiting pal.

 

Don't hold your breath....this is so typical of Turkish and others on here derailing decent threads. It's ruined what was an informative and entertaining site.

 

Your OP is an excellent one. For me the simple answer lies in the maturity of the squad in the Prem in relation to the type of football Mopo wants. Thats why this summer is critical to the development of the squad and the clubs on-going success. To really shift the balance in our favour we need to bring in a GK, CB, AM, ST all of which must be of better quality than the players we now have. Unfortunately, I do not believe we will see more than 1 new face. From what I've heard Osvaldo will be coming back with nowhere to go which will hardly help with the mentality of the team.