Saint_clark Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Jwp not good enough because he's too small and lightweight? Do people still honestly believe that you can't be a good footballer if you're not over 6'2 and well built? Unbelievable. The kid is going to be a massive player for us for years to come. I'm done with this place, too many utter morons, reading some of the tripe on here will give me brain cancer.
Batman Posted 25 February, 2014 Author Posted 25 February, 2014 Jwp not good enough because he's too small and lightweight? Do people still honestly believe that you can't be a good footballer if you're not over 6'2 and well built? Unbelievable. The kid is going to be a massive player for us for years to come. I'm done with this place, too many utter morons, reading some of the tripe on here will give me brain cancer. we've all said that before chat later, mate
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 (edited) Which stats are these? trousers provided some earlier... What Ward-Prowse does better than almost anyone else is cross the ball. Despite only starting half of his club's league games (and coming off the bench in all the others bar one), he has delivered more crosses than any other Premier League player this season. It is certainly not the only thing he does – he has made more tackles than midfielders as tigerish as Arsenal's Jack Wilshere, for example, despite starting fewer matches - but crossing is what makes him stand out most. He has such fizz and accuracy with his right foot that it is difficult to avoid comparison with his chief idol, David Beckham http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/feb/04/southampton-james-ward-prowse-england-world-cup Here are some more... http://www.bsports.com/extratime/premier-league-best-crossers Impressive for someone that hasn't started every game and is still only 19 year old. Edited 25 February, 2014 by Matthew Le God
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 trousers provided some earlier... However anyone pretending that JWP might be in England's WC squad this summer is just a dreamer and anything that they may write can be instantly cast aside. He's not even in our starting XI, he's a 20 minute max bit part player because we have better players at our disposal. He was absolutely woeful at Sunderland so why anyone would think he's an England player at this time is totally incomprehensible.
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 However anyone pretending that JWP might be in England's WC squad this summer is just a dreamer and anything that they may write can be instantly cast aside. He's not even in our starting XI, he's a 20 minute max bit part player because we have better players at our disposal. He was absolutely woeful at Sunderland so why anyone would think he's an England player at this time is totally incomprehensible. Who said that?
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Who said that? FFS see post 95, apparently some Guardian article or other, bunch of dreamers that they are. It's just all hype.
Deano6 Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Who said that? It was Window Cleaner mate. His name is shown at the top of the post.
Sour Mash Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 trousers provided some earlier... Here are some more... http://www.bsports.com/extratime/premier-league-best-crossers Impressive for someone that hasn't started every game and is still only 19 year old. So that tells us that despite crossing the ball so much, he's only been able to assist two goals this season?
Bearsy Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 reading some of the tripe on here will give me brain cancer. i wonder if we can sue stevegrant when we get brain cancer, or if we would have to pursue windows directly?
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 FFS see post 95, apparently some Guardian article or other, bunch of dreamers that they are. It's just all hype. Direct quote from Hodgson... "Ward-Prowse and Shaw are outstanding individuals". Yet you've written him off at 19 years old.
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 So that tells us that despite crossing the ball so much, he's only been able to assist two goals this season? Is looking merely at assists a good thing to do? What if it is a superb cross and though no fault of the crosser the attacker misses? Or what if its a superb cross which isn't the final pass in a move but still leads to a goal? That then wouldn't count as an assist even though it played a key role in the goal.
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 So that tells us that despite crossing the ball so much, he's only been able to assist two goals this season? What do you expect he hardly ever plays and when he does he's found wanting, perhaps he needs to go back to Havant + Waterlooville to toughen up a bit more eh. We need to do like other clubs, loan out our nearly players and see what real football does for them, why Beckham went on loan to Preston at one stage I think, so did Welbeck who also had a spell at Sunderland.
Sour Mash Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Is looking merely at assists a good thing to do? Good point, should also look at goals scored to be fair.
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 What do you expect he hardly ever plays and when he does he's found wanting, perhaps he needs to go back to Havant + Waterlooville to toughen up a bit more eh. We need to do like other clubs, loan out our nearly players and see what real football does for them, why Beckham went on loan to Preston at one stage I think, so did Welbeck who also had a spell at Sunderland. Ward-Prowse has had 30 appearance (by late February) for a top half Premier League team (3rd highest number in the entire 1st team squad). Isn't that better than going on loan to Preston or a lower Premier League team? I think it is.
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Is looking merely at assists a good thing to do? What if it is a superb cross and though no fault of the crosser the attacker misses? Or what if its a superb cross which isn't the final pass in a move but still leads to a goal? That then wouldn't count as an assist even though it played a key role in the goal. There's a stat for that, usually called Key Passes, I'll leave it to you to look that up.
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Good point, should also look at goals scored to be fair. Ignoring the rest of my post and taking that one part out of context then?
Sour Mash Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Ignoring the rest of my post and taking that one part out of context then? Yes, it was the bit I was referring to with my question.
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 There's a stat for that, usually called Key Passes, I'll leave it to you to look that up. Like this...? http://www.statsbomb.com/2013/11/assessing-key-passes/
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Ward-Prowse has had 30 appearance (by late February) for a top half Premier League team (3rd highest number in the entire 1st team squad). Isn't that better than going on loan to Preston or a lower Premier League team? I think it is. No it isn't because JWP is a bit part player, 30 appearances is misleading. He's started 12 PL games and has had 13 sub appearances, the rest is Cup stuff. Thing is even 1 minute counts as a sub appearance although any contribution is minimal and JWP has had 8 sub appearances which have been fairly brief. He started the season as a starter and has become a bit part sub when the first XI are fit.
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 No it isn't because JWP is a bit part player, 30 appearances is misleading. He's started 12 PL games and has had 13 sub appearances, the rest is Cup stuff. Thing is even 1 minute counts as a sub appearance although any contribution is minimal and JWP has had 8 sub appearances which have been fairly brief. He started the season as a starter and has become a bit part sub when the first XI are fit. Well you cited David Beckham at Preston as an example of what we should be doing. Beckham played 5 games for Preston North End in the 4th tier! ffs Isn't Ward-Prowse playing 40 games and training with Saints 1st team players with Pochettino in the Premier League better than a 5 game spell at 4th tier Preston?
Batman Posted 25 February, 2014 Author Posted 25 February, 2014 Well you cited David Beckham at Preston as an example. Beckham play 5 games for Preston North End in the 4th tier! ffs Isn't Ward-Prowse playing 40 games and training with Pochettino in the Premier League better than a 5 game spell at 4th tier Preston? What are you saying. Being a bit part player at saints and never being a regular is better for his progression right now than a whole year at say, reading?
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Well you cited David Beckham at Preston as an example. Beckham play 5 games for Preston North End in the 4th tier! ffs Isn't Ward-Prowse playing 40 games and training with Pochettino in the Premier League better than a 5 game spell at 4th tier Preston? Preston were probably in a higher league in 1995 though. A loan would do JWP some good, Bournemouth or somewhere like that because he's not first choice at SFC and won't be for a while yet. He was and now isn't, that means that he's regressed because Davis hasn't got much better.
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 What are you saying. Being a bit part player at saints and never being a regular is better for his progression right now than a whole year at say, reading? He is good enough to get enough game time at Saints to aid his progression. I don't think a loan to the Championship would help him more. Plus if we did loan him out it'll leave a place in our first team squad that we'd need to fill. What would you then suggest we do with Ward-Prowse no longer an option for the bench?
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 What are you saying. Being a bit part player at saints and never being a regular is better for his progression right now than a whole year at say, reading? Well I think that's what he's saying, seems to be totally obsessed with defending a position that's undefendable.
Batman Posted 25 February, 2014 Author Posted 25 February, 2014 He is good enough to get enough game time at Saints to aid his progression. I don't think a loan to the Championship would help him more. Plus if we did loan him out it'll leave a place in our first team squad that we'd need to fill. What would you then suggest we do with Ward-Prowse no longer an option for the bench? Do you ever have an opinion other than what is currently going on at the club there and then?
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Preston were probably in a higher league in 1995 though. A loan would do JWP some good, Bournemouth or somewhere like that because he's not first choice at SFC and won't be for a while yet. He was and now isn't, that means that he's regressed because Davis hasn't got much better. As I said... Preston when Beckham played for them were in the 4th tier. Beckham played 5 games for them. Yet you cited that as something Saints should do with players like Ward-Prowse. If we loaned him to Bournemouth as you suggest, what do we then do with the gap it leaves in the squad? Ward-Prowse is in the match day 18 each week, loaning him out weakens our squad. He gets enough game time here for him to develop. He is 19 years old, he is getting far more game time than most Premier League 19 years olds and at a higher level.
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 He is good enough to get enough game time at Saints to aid his progression. I don't think a loan to the Championship would help him more. Plus if we did loan him out it'll leave a place in our first team squad that we'd need to fill. What would you then suggest we do with Ward-Prowse no longer an option for the bench? Buy a player with some actual current value who can be drafted in for games like Sunderland in the Cups and actually produce a performance worthy of the manager's trust. For me this Academy nonsense has gone too far and it leads to dire events like the Cup games against Sunderland. Fans want to win now as we saw recently, that means that if there's nothing in reserve the first XI have to play every game.
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Do you ever have an opinion other than what is currently going on at the club there and then? Not sure why you are going down this route. I've disagreed with lots of things the club and management have done. I was annoyed for example we didn't put out our strongest side vs Sunderland in both cups for example.
Sanjay Sanchez Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Think the thread title should be changed.
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 (edited) Buy a player with some actual current value who can be drafted in for games like Sunderland in the Cups and actually produce a performance worthy of the manager's trust. For me this Academy nonsense has gone too far and it leads to dire events like the Cup games against Sunderland. Fans want to win now as we saw recently, that means that if there's nothing in reserve the first XI have to play every game. So would you have preferred Saints to have bought an established international left back in the summer of 2012 and stopped Shaw progressing? To call it "academy nonsense" is bizarre. Saints are getting plaudits for good reason, our academy is superb and producing a lot of high quality players. We've spent a lot on players, but what makes our squad stronger than it would have otherwise been is those quality signings are supplemented with high quality youth products. Think how much more we'd had to spend to bring in a left back of Shaw's quality, right back Chambers' quality or midfielder of Lallana's quality? Edited 25 February, 2014 by Matthew Le God
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 (edited) . Think how much more we'd had to spend to bring in a left back of Shaw's quality or Chambers' quality? Less than you'd think, we are obsessed with English players, don't know who's doing that is, I'd still put Kurzawa in a league way beyond Shaw's we could probably have got him last summer for about 2 million. Azpilicueta is probably a better LB than Shaw will ever be, about 6 million I think and he's a 2 footer, can play left and right. FWIW I thought that Shaw and Chambers both looked very poor last saturday when faced with real wingers, looked totally out of their depth defensively. Edited 25 February, 2014 by Window Cleaner
trousers Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?39887-James-Ward-Prowse&p=1469027&highlight=prowse#post1469027 He reminds me of a young Iniesta! The three in midfield yesterday were outstanding. Agreed, all three were very good. Really hadn't expected Ward-Prowse to step up to quite the way he has. Can't judge the other young players against him as he is ridiculously developed and composed for someone of that age, especially in a position like centre mid.
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?39887-James-Ward-Prowse&p=1469027&highlight=prowse#post1469027 so are we saying here that he hasn't lived up to the promise shown 18 months ago then?
trousers Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 so are we saying here that he hasn't lived up to the promise shown 18 months ago then? Damn, you got me there....
Batman Posted 25 February, 2014 Author Posted 25 February, 2014 If toure plays, we simply have to press him when he has the ball. awful with it can see us press, press, press in this one. reckon we are going to have to score to get even a point in this one. sterling, suarez and sturridge are on fire where as lambert is not.
Sour Mash Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?39887-James-Ward-Prowse&p=1469027&highlight=prowse#post1469027 Yet,he's gone backwards over the last 6 months and not lived up to that potential.
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 If toure plays, we simply have to press him when he has the ball. awful with it can see us press, press, press in this one. reckon we are going to have to score to get even a point in this one. sterling, suarez and sturridge are on fire where as lambert is not. Their defence looked very poor against Swansea, then again so did ours at West Ham, the only difference being that they can score just now and we can't. Don't know what to predict, want to be optimistic but I'm just afraid that Sterling will take us apart because West Ham's wingers certainly did. Now I'd play Clyne at RB and put Chambers in front of him, don't know why Mauricio doesn't do that or even try it anyway, I'm sure Chambers has more to offer in a forward role because every time he comes up against a really quick wide man the result isn't pretty to watch.,
Saint_Tony Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 JWP doesn't really contribute a lot for me. We get told about his great free kicks and dead ball delivery, how many goals and assists has he contributed? Think we need to accept he is Championship level and not good enough for where we want to get to.
trousers Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Yet,he's gone backwards over the last 6 months and not lived up to that potential. And conversely, there's still time for him to recapture and grow that potential...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 JWP doesn't really contribute a lot for me. We get told about his great free kicks and dead ball delivery, how many goals and assists has he contributed? Think we need to accept he is Championship level and not good enough for where we want to get to. Which is why he's been relegated to a sub role I suppose.
trousers Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Which is why he's been relegated to a sub role I suppose. Or... Davis upped his game and became preferred starter which has dented JWP's confidence a bit
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 Or... Davis upped his game and became preferred starter which has dented JWP's confidence a bit Who knows, he isn't good enough to be a PL starter just now. Personally I just can't wait for all this academy nonsense to end and that our player needs are filled when they arise and not in 10 years time perhaps maybe. If you want to be top level you have to use what you've got and buy whatever else you need, if you don't do that you will eventually struggle if only because you just can't keep your best players because of lack of ambition or success.
Sour Mash Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 And conversely, there's still time for him to recapture and grow that potential... Yeah, that's what I've said, he has potential, but I don't think he's offering a massive amount to us in games at the moment.
trousers Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 How did we get onto the JWP topic in the first place? Anyway, back to the match build up.... JWP to start...one goal and 2 assists... 3-2 to Saints
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 How did we get onto the JWP topic in the first place? Anyway, back to the match build up.... JWP to start...one goal and 2 assists... 3-2 to Saints Bold predictions then, I shall reserve judgement until I have seen the international squad lists which are out on thursday, I can't help feeling that they are having an effect on our performances.
igsey Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 ----------------Boruc------------- Chambers--JWP--JWP--Shaw-- ---------JWP--------JWP--------- ---JWP--------JWP--------JWP-- --------------Gallagher---------- Should do the trick.
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 ----------------Boruc------------- Chambers--JWP--JWP--Shaw-- ---------JWP--------JWP--------- ---JWP--------JWP--------JWP-- --------------Gallagher---------- Should do the trick. Well I hope JWP doesn't get sent off, we'd be down to 4 men.
Matthew Le God Posted 25 February, 2014 Posted 25 February, 2014 He isn't good enough to be a PL starter just now. Not for Saints in mid table, but he could easily be a starter for a number of other clubs in the league.
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