Matthew Le God Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Is this a David Icke theory ? - David Icke proposes lizards are ruling the world. - I (and every major university in the world) can see that seemingly small and trivial events can have big knock on effects. Big difference between the two! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 - I (and every major university in the world) can see that seemingly small and trivial events can have big knock on effects. Only for systems which are inherently unstable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 (edited) Only for systems which are inherently unstable. Why aren't the lottery numbers the same every week? If you stir a bowl full of balls without being able to see them will you position them in exactly the same position and then pick the same balls in the same order even if the 24 hours prior to that moment have been different for you? Edited 16 February, 2014 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Why aren't the lottery numbers the same every week? Will us losing / beating sunderland effect this weeks lottery draw? No, so why would it effect the cup draw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Why aren't the lottery numbers the same every week? If you stir a bowl full of balls without being able to see them will you position them in exactly the same position and then pick the same balls in the same order even if the 24 hours prior to that moment have been different for you? That has nothing to do with chaos theory. People have a tendency to be predictable, ask Derren Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Will us losing / beating sunderland effect this weeks lottery draw? No, so why would it effect the cup draw Because different factors change the placement of the lottery balls meaning you get a different outcome even if the situation looks the same each week. The same applies to a cup draw, the person putting the balls in the bowl, stirring them and picking them out would use different hand movements if they have experienced different things in the previous 24 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Will us losing / beating sunderland effect this weeks lottery draw? No, so why would it effect the cup draw No, it didn't affect the draw in any way, but we were eliminated yesterday so we shall never know who we might have drawn in the next round because we're not in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 That has nothing to do with chaos theory. People have a tendency to be predictable, ask Derren Brown. You didn't answer the two questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Because different factors change the placement of the lottery balls meaning you get a different outcome even if the situation looks the same each week. The same applies to a cup draw, the person putting the balls in the bowl, stirring them and picking them out would use different hand movements if they have experienced different things in the previous 24 hours. Try this: http://www.lottery.co.uk/statistics/ Are these results significant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 No, it didn't affect the draw in any way, but we were eliminated yesterday so we shall never know who we might have drawn in the next round because we're not in it. You do realise that is what my point is, and it is explained by the butterfly effect. So why were you arguing against me when you've said to Glasgow you agree with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 You didn't answer the two questions. They weren't related to my post and I thought we had dealt with them earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Try this: http://www.lottery.co.uk/statistics/ Are these results significant? Not to answering either of the questions I asked you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 You do realise that is what my point is, and it is explained by the butterfly effect. So why were you arguing against me when you've said to Glasgow you agree with me? No, it's nothing to do with the butterfly effect, more a philosophical consideration, maybe Determinism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 They weren't related to my post and I thought we had dealt with them earlier. Yes they are, and no you hadn't. The lottery ball all start in seemingly the same location, yet it is human influence that positions them and starts the draw. The lives of those that have an influence on the balls in the draw will influence how the balls are positioned and which are drawn. Similar applies to a football cup draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Not to answering either of the questions I asked you. I was using 'significant' in the statistical sense, that is whether the spread of results shows a bias to any particular number or set of numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Yes they are, and no you hadn't. The lottery ball all start in seemingly the same location, yet it is human influence that positions them and starts the draw. The lives of those that have an influence on the balls in the draw will influence how the balls are positioned and which are drawn. Similar applies to a football cup draw. The lottery balls are selected by machine, there is only a very slight human input which could equally be performed by machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 (edited) No, it's nothing to do with the butterfly effect, more a philosophical consideration, maybe Determinism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism This is a far more extreme versions than actually events, but is to explain a concept and why you are fundamentally wrong to say these things are predetermined. Lets say former Newcastle player Rob Lee really wanted Sunderland to lose. When Lallana hit in the winning goal he celebrated wildly and trapped his finger and broke it. He went to hospital and had two fingers strapped together. That is clearly going to effect how he puts the balls in the bag and selects them compared to if Sunderland won and his hand was okay. He would pick different balls in each scenario. A lesser version of that actually happened, but the broken finger tale was to illustrate the point more clearly. Edited 16 February, 2014 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 This is a far more extreme versions than actually events, but is to explain a concept and why you are fundamentally wrong to say these things are predetermined. Lets say former Newcastle player Rob Lee really wanted Sunderland to lose. When Lallana hit in the winning goal he celebrated wildly and trapped his finger and broke it. He went to hospital and had two fingers strapped together. That is clearly going to effect how he puts the balls in the bag and selects them compared to if Sunderland won and his hand was okay. He would pick different balls in each scenario. For the simplistic amongst us, me included, can you please confirm MLG, would we have been the same numbered ball in the draw today as Sunderland were ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 This is a far more extreme versions than actually events, but is to explain a concept and why you are fundamentally wrong to say these things are predetermined. Lets say former Newcastle player Rob Lee really wanted Sunderland to lose. When Lallana hit in the winning goal he celebrated wildly and trapped his finger and broke it. He went to hospital and had two fingers strapped together. That is clearly going to effect how he puts the balls in the bag and selects them compared to if Sunderland won and his hand was okay. He would pick different balls in each scenario. I'm not saying they were predetermined, just that the outcome of the match and the outcome of the draw are two totally unconnected events. The outcome of the draw (sequence of balls) was just as likely no matter who won or drew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 (edited) This is a far more extreme versions than actually events, but is to explain a concept and why you are fundamentally wrong to say these things are predetermined. Lets say former Newcastle player Rob Lee really wanted Sunderland to lose. When Lallana hit in the winning goal he celebrated wildly and trapped his finger and broke it. He went to hospital and had two fingers strapped together. That is clearly going to effect how he puts the balls in the bag and selects them compared to if Sunderland won and his hand was okay. He would pick different balls in each scenario. A lesser version of that actually happened, but the broken finger tale was to illustrate the point more clearly. How come when I used to play FM and forgot to save after a cup draw, I used to get drawn against the same team when I restarted from the last saved point? Edited 16 February, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 I'm not saying they were predetermined, just that the outcome of the match and the outcome of the draw are two totally unconnected events. The outcome of the draw (sequence of balls) was just as likely no matter who won or drew. The are connected because the people that put the balls in the bag, put the balls in the bowl, stir the balls and picked out the balls had a different 24 hours prior to the draw in the two scenarios of Sunderland winning or Saints winning. Do you not agree that in my extreme broken example the outcome would have been different if Rob Lee couldn't grasp the balls in the same way had his figure been okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Classic thread. And some people accuse Barry Sanchez and Glasgow of ruining the forum. Wasn't difficult to ruin though was it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 For the simplistic amongst us, me included, can you please confirm MLG, would we have been the same numbered ball in the draw today as Sunderland were ? Even if they were that wouldn't mean the draw would automatically happen the same way. The events of the previous 24 hours would be different in both scenarios so the balls would be in different places after stirring each time and would lead to people taking out different balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 It doesn't need to be anything major. Rob Lee on seeing Sunderland out of the cup would have even slightly altered his behaviour yesterday, that in turn would mean everything he did afterwards would have been slightly different. Not just Rob Lee, but it would have a knock effect to everyone on the planet even though it seems trivial. Don't you just mean that hindsight is a beautiful thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stug76 Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Are people being deliberately obtuse or genuinely not understanding this? What with the massive over reaction to yesterday's result, the proliferation of the forum ass holes derailing every thread, and my favorite - a facebook page detailing the contract details of people at the club! This place has reached a new low. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 (edited) I'm not saying they were predetermined, just that the outcome of the match and the outcome of the draw are two totally unconnected events. The outcome of the draw (sequence of balls) was just as likely no matter who won or drew. MLG is never going to get that level of nuance. Hilarious that he is rambling about Chaos theory while at the same time forces a link two events that are utterly unconnected. A football match and a random drawing of eight balls a day later. Utterly unconnected unless, like MLG you force a connection. Of the multi million events that have impacted how that draw played out - from the person bringing the balls out of storage, the atmospheric pressure in Wembley, Rob Lee's nerves, the level of moistueriser on Olly Lee's hands - the result of a match hundreds of miles and many hours ago becomes utterly irrelevent. As relevent to that moment as, say, the colour of some shoes bought by an old woman in Lincoln last Monday. Well done MLG. Edited 16 February, 2014 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Interestingly (yes, really) you can influence the choice of ball by something such as temperature or surface finish. A warmer ball is more likely to be chosen than a cold one, say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 This is all getting a bit deep and intellectual. I'm quite interested in how a football result affects a person's hand movements, I've never noticed any major changes win, lose or draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 (edited) At least we have the League and West Ham and Crystal Palace away to look forward to. Edited 16 February, 2014 by Barry Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Are people being deliberately obtuse or genuinely not understanding this? What with the massive over reaction to yesterday's result, the proliferation of the forum ass holes derailing every thread, and my favorite - a facebook page detailing the contract details of people at the club! This place has reached a new low. Shame. Good job you're online now to raise the level then isn't it. Oh no wait, just whinging as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Bet you it ends up a Sunderland - sheff utd semi too! Definitely looks ops like saints could have had a couple of trips to wembley. Would have capped off a good season. Be honest, will anyone bother going to saints cup games next season? What's the point? Not with MP in charge no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Interestingly (yes, really) you can influence the choice of ball by something such as temperature or surface finish. A warmer ball is more likely to be chosen than a cold one, say. I think Rob Lee behaved differently knowing Sunderland was in the hat. God bless MLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stug76 Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Good job you're online now to raise the level then isn't it. Oh no wait, just whinging as usual It's just that tiny glimmer of hope, however small, that something might change if you speak up if you don't like something. If i don't comment, I can't complain when this place eventually disappears up its own arse. It's like the butterfly effect, one person might read my post and think, yeah that's about right and they might challenge one of the clowns and so it carrys on and before we know it the mods realise that the £5s are drying up and the curry night is cancelled. Who knows where it will go? Thanks for your input though. Good to keep the issue on the table so to speak. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints boy in Leeds Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 **** sake. We would end up playing one of the big boys in the semis or final anyway, rather loose to Sunderland in the 5th round than get beat by Brighton or Hull in the 1/4s or one of the big boys in the semis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 We would end up playing one of the big boys in the semis or final anyway, rather loose to Sunderland in the 5th round than get beat by Brighton or Hull in the 1/4s or one of the big boys in the semis. Southampton FC has a long and proud history of ambition.......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Crab Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 This thread is evidence, if ever it were needed, that most of the posters on this are entirely stupid. And I'm not talking about Matthew Le God or trousers, who I happen to think are complete arses, but are entirely correct on this matter. I mean, the level to which people are prepared to dismiss a very sound scientific theory on the grounds that it doesn't sit with their angry view that "Saints would have won the cup if we hadn't lost yesterday" is impressive to say the least. And the fact that some are actually taking the p*ss out of MLG is frankly embarrassing for them, their families and anyone who happens to count them as friends. On the plus side, it's f*cking entertaining to watch such stupidity in action. A bit like visiting the zoo and watching monkeys flicking their own faeces around and eating it whilst still thinking that they are the apex of evolution. Carry on, guys. You are doing a sterling job. And MLG/trousers: don't mistake this as me thinking that you aren't complete c*ckles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 This thread is evidence, if ever it were needed, that most of the posters on this are entirely stupid. And I'm not talking about Matthew Le God or trousers, who I happen to think are complete arses, but are entirely correct on this matter. I mean, the level to which people are prepared to dismiss a very sound scientific theory on the grounds that it doesn't sit with their angry view that "Saints would have won the cup if we hadn't lost yesterday" is impressive to say the least. And the fact that some are actually taking the p*ss out of MLG is frankly embarrassing for them, their families and anyone who happens to count them as friends. On the plus side, it's f*cking entertaining to watch such stupidity in action. A bit like visiting the zoo and watching monkeys flicking their own faeces around and eating it whilst still thinking that they are the apex of evolution. Carry on, guys. You are doing a sterling job. And MLG/trousers: don't mistake this as me thinking that you aren't complete c*ckles. Fret ye not. I'm never mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 This thread is evidence, if ever it were needed, that most of the posters on this are entirely stupid. And I'm not talking about Matthew Le God or trousers, who I happen to think are complete arses, but are entirely correct on this matter. I mean, the level to which people are prepared to dismiss a very sound scientific theory on the grounds that it doesn't sit with their angry view that "Saints would have won the cup if we hadn't lost yesterday" is impressive to say the least. And the fact that some are actually taking the p*ss out of MLG is frankly embarrassing for them, their families and anyone who happens to count them as friends. On the plus side, it's f*cking entertaining to watch such stupidity in action. A bit like visiting the zoo and watching monkeys flicking their own faeces around and eating it whilst still thinking that they are the apex of evolution. Carry on, guys. You are doing a sterling job. And MLG/trousers: don't mistake this as me thinking that you aren't complete c*ckles. Now look: The Butterfly Effect is a very limited theory that had no place in FA Cup draws. When Lorenz developed it in connection with his efforts at weather prediction it was an interesting intellectual exercise to try to explain the sensitivity of his model to small changes in its initial parameters instead of trying to find out why his model was so touchy in the first place. It, and Chaos Theory, have their place in certain fields but balls in a bag is not one of them. I am certainly not dismissing the theory nor the views of any other poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 I think Rob Lee behaved differently knowing Sunderland was in the hat. God bless MLG Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Are people being deliberately obtuse or genuinely not understanding this? What with the massive over reaction to yesterday's result, the proliferation of the forum ass holes derailing every thread, and my favorite - a facebook page detailing the contract details of people at the club! This place has reached a new low. Shame. This. As disappointed as I am with the management and team for yesterday's non performance, this forum has reached new depths. I'm so glad that I am now just a lurker (and laugher) on here, but I also feel sorry for the people who own and run the site. What was once a quite interesting, welcoming and entertaining place to spend time and debate sensibly has degenerated into a quite juvenile and intimidating site dominated by a few posters who it appears will stop at nothing to make thier mark on the www. You can all knock yourselves out giving me grief now, but don't expect me to waste time replying - as I said before, I'm now only a '3 a day' member, best move I made in a long time. Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockportsaint Posted 17 February, 2014 Share Posted 17 February, 2014 This. As disappointed as I am with the management and team for yesterday's non performance, this forum has reached new depths. I'm so glad that I am now just a lurker (and laugher) on here, but I also feel sorry for the people who own and run the site. What was once a quite interesting, welcoming and entertaining place to spend time and debate sensibly has degenerated into a quite juvenile and intimidating site dominated by a few posters who it appears will stop at nothing to make thier mark on the www. You can all knock yourselves out giving me grief now, but don't expect me to waste time replying - as I said before, I'm now only a '3 a day' member, best move I made in a long time. Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk Agree with every word of the above. The sane and rational people get shouted down by the idiots. As the saying goes: don't bother arguing with an idiot, they've had far more practice than you and will just shout you down. Having said that, to go from wishing saints had got through to the draw v Brighton or Hull to a detailed argument on chaos theory takes some doing. I think Chris Donald must have met Matthew le God at some point in the past, and was inspired to come up with the character Mr Logic: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 17 February, 2014 Share Posted 17 February, 2014 Tough draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 17 February, 2014 Share Posted 17 February, 2014 One thing I do agree with MLG on... If Lambert had scored a hatrick, then I'm sure Rob Lee's wife would have asked him to get a pint of milk and insist he slept on the sofa. Hard to argue with, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 17 February, 2014 Share Posted 17 February, 2014 I wondered how the thread topic had generated 144 posts and what people could possibly be discussing. Hard to comment but hasn't eased my guilt that I think I caused 9/11 by holding a fart in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 17 February, 2014 Share Posted 17 February, 2014 This thread is amazing! What are people banging on about the good old days for? This is the good old days. Rob Lee vigorously fingering someone after the lama scored the winner. Baby Jesus shooting whitey grandad's grandad and then bringing him back to life. MLG claiming just cause something is thought, it is real (they used to teach that the world was flat MLG). This is a golden thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 17 February, 2014 Share Posted 17 February, 2014 As the saying goes: don't bother arguing with an idiot, they've had far more practice than you and will just shout you down. that's not how the saying goes ffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 17 February, 2014 Share Posted 17 February, 2014 Just to clarify then , because MP picked a team of butterflies rather than professional footballers, Somerset flooded , Sunderland get a free FA cup and Glasgow remains unaffected ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 17 February, 2014 Share Posted 17 February, 2014 that's not how the saying goes ffs! It does some days bear, it depends on how long Rob Lee takes to brush his teeth and his recovery from fingering injury. I'm with MLG, doesn't anyone watch Ashton Kitcher movies ffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 17 February, 2014 Share Posted 17 February, 2014 It does some days bear, it depends on how long Rob Lee takes to brush his teeth and his recovery from fingering injury. I'm with MLG, doesn't anyone watch Ashton Kitcher movies ffs? dunno if that movie proved his point, no matter how many times he went back he never got to bang amy smart. Sounds like predetermination. I spose he did stop that old man fiddling with his junk tho. Still as the saying goes, be careful of what ur wishing because people will shout you down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 17 February, 2014 Share Posted 17 February, 2014 A bird in the hand is worth fighting for. Fool me twice shame on you in the Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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