Sunderland 1 Saints 0 Match Reaction

[Dark Munster]

The performance was woeful because the team selection was woeful.

 

Our established pattern of playing out from the back went down the toilet with the selection of two central defenders who struggle with passing and a goalkeeper whose distribution is pitiful.

 

But we might have got away with that if we hadn't also replaced the shield in front of them - and the conduit for moving the ball forward - by leaving out both Schneiderlin and Cork (IMO our best pairing at the moment), and if we hadn't replaced the highly-mobile Rodrigues with the languid, lazy, low-intensity Guly (along with his needless offsides and failure to present moving pass opportunities).

 

And we might even have got away with that if MP had seen the writing on the wall and made the two changes at half time, when they could almost have started afresh, instead of at the 62 minute mark, when they were trying to jump onto a moving train.

 

As others have said, those changes destroyed an established pattern of play which should have been easily good enough to see off the side that Poyet fielded.

This.

 

Excuses given so far:

 

- Some of the poor darlings were too tired to play Tuesday and today.

 

Fine, then play today's team against Hull (who cares if we lost) and play the strongest (and freshest) 11 today in the match that has any meaning. Many of us were arguing for this before Tuesday. I was concerned when I saw Tuesday's starting 11, and dismayed when I saw today's. It was all so predictable.

 

- The 11 selected today should have been strong enough to see off a weakened Sunderland.

 

They didn't did they? Yes, we had some of the first 11 in the team, but there were enough donkeys to drag the whole team down, from Kelvin who booted virtually every ball into touch, to a midfield without JC and MS that couldn't string 2 passes together. With this selection MP didn't guarantee a loss, but he did greatly increase the chances. Who can argue that Tuesdays team would've had a much greater chance of winning?

 

We're not going to win the Cup anyway.

Wigan won it last year. Citeh and Arse/Liverpool have bigger fish to fry. Looks who's in the last 8, Sunderland, some lower divisions teams ... including bloody Wigan.

 

- We should concentrate on finishing 7th instead of 8th. The league is more important than the Cup: we may even finish ahead of Manure!

 

F**k off.

Edited 16 February, 2014 by Dark Munster

[Dark Munster]

Told you so

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?49001-Hull-vs-Saints-Build-Up/page2&highlight=lambast#.Uv-z2WJ5OSo

 

post 88

 

Post 54:

[Dark Munster]

I bet if we stuff Wham, then 'resting' the players will be worth it in the minds of the fans.

 

Another thread mentions squad depth. Perhaps that is the problem, we haven't got the depth we need to risk a cup run ?

 

[Dark Munster]

Fonte was injured - our midfield has played 3 times in a week. Wanyama was starting every game over Cork before he got injured and JWP is a mongboard golden boy. Only Guly and Davis are genuine downgrades at least from the perspective of the armchair managers on here.

Fonte was injured - Debatable, but even if true he wouldn't be if he (along most of the others) had been rested in the meaningless Hull match.

 

Our midfield has played 3 times in a week - see above.

 

Wanyama was starting every game over Cork - Cork is currently playing brilliantly; big Vic is still finding form after a long lay-off (and was hauled off at half time after playing crap in his first game back).

 

There is no excuse for any downgrades for this match.

[Dark Munster]

Did Sunderland get what they deserved from resting 9 first choice players?

Sunderland had every reason to rest 9 players: they are fighting for their PL lives.

[Dark Munster]

Can we just get one thing straight and out of the way. The team selection was not disrespectful to the fans. Not only do you pay for a ticket, knowing full well that someone else is going to pick the team and therefore you might not agree with it but they have hardly disguised the fact that there would be changes have they? Every round of every competition has seen similar changes this season, and at any opportunity anyone at the club is asked about the cup they have talked about how it's a chance to "give the other players an opportunity".

 

If anyone paid and traveled to that game expecting to see a full strength team then it's their own fault.

 

The performance from the players picked on the other hand....

I beg to differ.

 

Mods, how about a poll? Should the starting 11 against Sunderland have started against Hull, and vice versa?

[Dark Munster]

I would hope, now that Cortese has gone, we may start to see the Cups as an opportunity rather than as a way of using squad players.

 

Terrible performance, but we did the same under NA, so it's not just down to Poch.

 

Someone should send the Leibhiers a DVD of 1976.

NA had promotion or PL survival to worry about. So yes, it's just down to Poch.

[Edmonton Saint]

I dare say if today had been a league game against Sunderland, then Fonte, Rodriguez etc would have been fit enough to start. Don't believe this nonsense that they were not 100%. Sibley trying to deflect criticism which is rightly due in this case.

[Dark Munster]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/fa-cup/10640607/Sunderland-v-Southampton-FA-Cup-fifth-round-live.html

 

"Everything that is wrong with the modern day FA Cup came together in one utterly dreadful encounter at the Stadium of Light.

 

"Sunderland made nine changes to their team, and Southampton five. You could perhaps forgive the Mackems, with a League Cup final coming up and a hellish Premier League fixture list over the next few weeks as they attempt to avoid relegation. But what exactly are Southampton protecting? Safe from relegation, unlikely to compete for European places in the league, and with a quality starting 11 capable of having a really good go at winning this competition. You know, winning a cup, winning a medal? Remember that?

 

"Weakened team, limp performance, Sunderland's keeper Ustari had one save to make in the first half, and Rickie Lambert missed from a yard with what will no doubt become a YouTube sensation, but that was it. Now, presumably, the Saints can fully focus on the really important business of finishing midtable in the Premier League. "

[brmbrm]

To those who think we should field weak teams and basically give up, why bother entering in the first place? Save the entry fee and rest the players. If the FA don't like it so what? You won't play in their silly ccompettion next year anyway. Same for the league cup. Best rested players not playing football

 

And how many extra league points do we get for this **** poor performance? None. Rather have a team playing well, playing inning football and playing with confidence than this shambles

[Professor]

The midfield was certainly one weak point with too many passes going astray. I need to see the vid of the game again to be sure, but I thought it was Wanyama who missed a tackle or lost the ball, that led to the Sunderland goal. Up front, we seemed to have our usual problem creating goal-scoring chances out of possession. Added to that were Rickie's misses and after missing two at Hull, this is a worry that suggests we need to fill the hole left by Osvaldo. My impression is that if Cork, Schneiderlin and Rodriguez had played from the start, we would still be in the competition.

[positivepete]

Whilst in the Man City Chelsea tie both managers agreed that City not playing midweek was the decisive factor........

[alehouseboys]

If nothing else, yesterday has sent out a clear message that cups are very low priority to this football club. The position we currently stand, mid-table with, realistically, only a chance to finish 1 or 2 places either way, there was never a better opportunity to push on and have a good go at winning the thing. Our first choice 11 or so players have been outstanding, playing in such a way you would have given us a chance in a one-off game against anyone. Sunderland fielding an under strength side, big sides going out, quarter finals on offer. What an opportunity, if the current set-up won’t go for it now, they never will.

 

So I think the club should make this clear next season (in case anyone is in any doubt!) before fans fork out their hard-earned and waste hours on the road and we can all have a “rest” on cup days.

[musesaint]

If we end up above Manure in the League I will forgive this debacle!

[Barry Sanchez]

Whilst in the Man City Chelsea tie both managers agreed that City not playing midweek was the decisive factor........

 

Their game has no reflection on ours, we should have played our best side as its our best chance to win a trophy, 6 changes and went out with a whimper, on talksport now.

[Georgie]

If we end up above Manure in the League I will forgive this debacle!

 

Why? That will achieve 7th. That could even achieve a Europa League place depending on who wins the cups, which is claimed we don't want. Would rather have a cup and Europa league place than no cup and a Europa league place.

[Georgie]

Gazzaniga apologised for something he put on twitter yesterday about tha game but it appears to have been deleted. Anyone know what it was?

[Window Cleaner]

Gazzaniga apologised for something he put on twitter yesterday about tha game but it appears to have been deleted. Anyone know what it was?

 

No I don't but it should have been something along the lines of wondering why he was on the bench and that old fool was in goal again. Probably wasn't though. We should have ditched Davis 2 years ago when he had some sort of status, why we might have even got a couple of quid for him. Poor keeper, just do not understand why he's still here with years yet on his contract.

[Sour Mash]

Gazzaniga apologised for something he put on twitter yesterday about tha game but it appears to have been deleted. Anyone know what it was?

think he just put something about being "back on the plane hone now" or something, guess those with the long trek back by car/coach/train took exception to his perceived smugness, unnecessary really as it's not like that was his intent, although probably a good idea for players such as him to lay-off twitter at such times!

[derry]

I agree with you on the misplaced frustration but I don't think the problem was in the players' heads. I think it was in the fact that some crucial cogs in a quick-thinking, fast-reacting, high-intensity machine were missing - and they were replaced by players who are slow readers and lack intensity. Guly's the biggest example but not the only one.

 

And, on top of that, Kelvin's distribution was almost obscene and the Maya/Jos duo struggles to play out from the back, which meant that we were constantly surrendering possession when we're used to winning it in those areas.

 

I am really ****ed off at Hooiveld. yesterday he passed across his own penalty area to an opponent because he had to turn right round so he could get his left foot on the ball. That's why he gives away own goals. For a professional he is so one footed it is a disgrace and a major weakness.

[Cabrone]

If the club aren't going to take cup competitions seriously then fans should not bother turning up. That is the message the club is sending out.

 

Really feel for those that made the difficult trek to the furthermost club from us just to watch a bit of a debacle. I'd feel ripped off.

 

What's even more galling is that we were in the fairly unusual position where the cup game was a lot more important than our league games and yet the club still did not want to go for it. Says everything you need to know about SFCs attitude to the cups.

 

Next season save your cash and don't bother with cup matches, if the club can't be arsed then neither should the fans.

[Griffo]

Didn't want to post when I got back from Sunderland late yesterday because I was so livid. Haven't read the thread so will probably be repeating things. 4 trips to Sunderland in the last 10 months for absolutely f*ck all. In the post match interview it was said that we played our best possible team after taking Tuesday's game into account. That game was meaningless, and yesterdays wasn't. So why the f*ck did we not rest a few key players on Tuesday night? I don't care what anyone says, if you're one of the players in that dressing room and you see that we're not at full strength then it's going to automatically make your head drop. Same for Perez doing the interviews. I said it on Thursday or Friday that I don't think it shows we're taking it seriously and some of you said that was b*llocks. Well what message does it send out? It shows that he's not really arsed about cup competitions. Pochettino barely got off the bench for the whole game. Luke Shaw seemed to be the only one who wanted it. Even Poyet came out and said they'd rather lose than draw, and their pathetic attendance yesterday showed their fans couldn't have cared less about it either. We should have seen that as an opportunity to put our first team out and smash them to pieces. As has been said 100s of times over the last few days, what are we going to remember in 50 years time? The season we finished 7th/8th in the Prem or us all having a day out at Wembley and winning something serious for only the 2nd time in our history? The only one claim that Pompey have to being a bigger club than us is the trophies they've won and for a club of our size, having only won one major trophy in our history is quite pathetic. My old man doesn't make many away games any more due to his age and I'd have loved to go to Wembley for a cup final with him, after hearing all his stories from the FA Cup run in 76, the final and day at Wembley and subsequently the week after and all the celebrations. Probably won't get the chance to now. What's the point in being in the Prem with all these good players if we're just going to bob along in mid-table every year? I'm quite glad that the couple of players who did have the b*llocks to come over and clap us at the end of the game got told to do one, that performance deserved it. Most of them just ambled straight off down the tunnel. The annoying thing is that I can't see any explanation or reason for why we played that team yesterday or why we just didn't seem to care. Anyway, a bit of a rant/ramble and might not make much sense but I'm still angry after yesterday.

Edited 16 February, 2014 by Griffo

[sentry]

If we were fighting relegation then a weakened team would be fine, but as it stands, we are not. I would not have minded one squad player in the team to give him a chance, but we should of taken the cup more seriously.

[derry]

To try and put some perspective on this. The fans at most clubs don't bother with the Cups unless it is SF and F and the attendances are poor. Only the top four seem to get the crowds. The fans by not bothering and the clubs by not bothering are really turning the cups into avoidable competitions.

 

As for the team. There can be little criticism in playing Clyne and giving Wanyama a full game. As for the other changes, Boruc's injured hand showed the desperate situation in the goalkeeping position. If Davis plays the team can't play out from the back. Finish the season with hopefully Boruc staying fit then get another compatible keeper in. He shouldn't have been picked. Hooiveld only if Fonte not fit. JWP needs to find a position, the way he plays is neither one thing or the other, certainly no attacker. Guly showed why at the best he is a last minute sub. Neither of these two should have started and it should have been Rodriguez and Schneiderlin plus either Cork or Davis in my opinion.

 

Any other day the ball would have hit Lambert on the shin and gone in. The ball bounced badly and he hit it too well as it bounced shanking it vertically.

[saintant]

The goalkeeper and back four yesterday were by no means great but they managed to restrict Sunderland to few chances until we had to go gung-ho in the last fifteen minutes. They were not the problem. It was the midfield and attack that was critically weakened. So, had we started the game with Cork, Morgan and J-Rod in their normal positions it seems to me we would likely have put the game to bed by half time or at worst within an hour because we'd have played our usual pressing/passing style and had far too much for a poor Sunderland team. That was the point at which players should have been taken off and rested not the start of the game. If MOPO seriously wanted to win this game it would not have taken much to achieve that and we'd be in the draw for the quarter finals. Instead we have a largely demoralised fanbase left wondering what on earth we were attempting to protect by playing a severely weakened team. Baffling for most of us.

[rick1976.4.38]

wow we might finish 7th,we can put that in our huge empty(one fa cup) cabinet and celebrate that for years to come.

luckily I didn't waste my money on this,that must be up there with one of saints worst performances of all time.

the high pressing game was non existant and apart from clyne and shaw,no one else seemed bothered.

to the sky generation fans,id take a cup final over 7th anyday,us who were there in 76 will have it to cherish forever.

sky have done great to bring football to the masses but have killed the cup because in days gone by it was the only live game and we all looked forward to it,now theres a game most nights,so it doesn't hold the same attraction.

fair play to all those who went,you should be reimbursed for that b***ocks

see ya all at west ham,they had four days in the sun of Dubai,we had sunderland,I wonder who will want it more

coys

[maxi_sopez]

still fuming

[Saint_Tony]

still fuming

 

Same here, I don't usually moan on here but still furious about yesterday, even 24 hours later. We can't do anything to change it by venting our frustrations on here, but it's difficult to keep calm. Funnily enough, the only other time this season I've felt like this was after the last Sunderland game that we somehow failed to win. What's worse is that we deserved nothing yesterday. Shocking misses by Lambert and Lallana, but Sunderland could have easily killed the game off if they weren't so hopeless in fron of goal too

[NewYorkSaint]

For me, the main problem wasn't the team selection (though that was certainly puzzling and troubling), it was that the players themselves lacked all their usual fire. But even at 60-70 minutes into the game, I wasn't that worried. it seemed obvious they would simply step it up, and at a minimum take an equalizer from a team they were clearly better than. What I think made everyone tear their hair out is that there was no increase in intensity as the game wore on. No captain chivvying his mates to get in and fight for victory. No manager urging on from the touchline. Just a bizarre lethargy ...and a growing number of inexplicable mistakes. I found myself wondering last night whether the whole team had been out drinking the night prior. They just weren't their usual selves. I would love to hear from some more of the senior players explaining what they think happened. And given the reaction here, and elsewhere, MoPo would be wise to consider acknowledging that the club let the fans down on this one.

[Chez]

I am really ****ed off at Hooiveld. yesterday he passed across his own penalty area to an opponent because he had to turn right round so he could get his left foot on the ball. That's why he gives away own goals. For a professional he is so one footed it is a disgrace and a major weakness.

 

Yeah, Jos not having much of a right foot is what ****ed me off most about yesterday too. Sigh.

[Whitey Grandad]

Yeah, Jos not having much of a right foot is what ****ed me off most about yesterday too. Sigh.

 

Is 'Hooiveld' dutch for 'wooden leg'?

[Chez]

Is 'Hooiveld' dutch for 'wooden leg'?

 

Meadow/hayfield

[kpturner]

Could have been Brighton or Hull away - sigh!

[Saints foreva]

Nice one Pochettino, you ****ing ****.

[nta786]

Wembley really would have been on the cards had we won...

[S-Clarke]

The rest of the draw is interesting too, if you get through to the Semi's you'd have a chance of facing a L1 or NPC team.

 

Such a wasted opportunity. But let's not forget, 8th is what it's all about. That trophy is bigger.

[Roger]

The rest of the draw is interesting too, if you get through to the Semi's you'd have a chance of facing a L1 or NPC team.

 

Such a wasted opportunity. But let's not forget, 8th is what it's all about. That trophy is bigger.

 

Couldn't agree with you more mate

[Ohio Saint]

This really puts a ****ing cap on it!!!

[stu0x]

It's not as simple as we would have got the same draw as Sunderland. Each team has a different numbered ball. The balls go into the bag numerically. So our ball would have been in a different place in the pot to Sunderland's.

[CB Fry]

It's not as simple as we would have got the same draw as Sunderland. Each team has a different numbered ball. The balls go into the bag numerically. So our ball would have been in a different place in the pot to Sunderland's.

 

Don't think it would. The number comes from the tie from the previous round. 99% sure we would have been the same ball in the ballbag.

 

LOL. I said ballbag.

[Window Cleaner]

It's not as simple as we would have got the same draw as Sunderland. Each team has a different numbered ball. The balls go into the bag numerically. So our ball would have been in a different place in the pot to Sunderland's.

 

 

Not so sure about that. Doesn't matter anyway, we lost because we couldn't score so what ifs and might have beens are totally irrelevant today. Team was too weak and that's it and all about it. You just cannot leave Lambert on his own in attack and hope to get a result, without a secondary attacker of quality (ie not Guly) he's just totally useless. When I see Osvaldo just playing bit parts for Juventus it makes me angry, someone needed to bang some heads together and get Osvaldo onto the pitch for us for the rest of the season, then again as we are a rudderless ship not much hope of that. I'd wager that if Cortese was still here Osvaldo would be as well.

[Window Cleaner]

I see that Everton dispatched Swansea with relative ease today then, so that's:

 

Clubs that had their midweek game postponed 3- Clubs that didn't 0.

 

Travesty of footballing justice really, still never mind "big clubs" always get their own way and do whatever they want.

 

Don't fancy your midweek game ? Never mind find a wobbly chimney or an icy puddle within 30 kilometres of the ground and call the health and safety brigade.

Edited 16 February, 2014 by Window Cleaner

[stknowle]

Don't think it would. The number comes from the tie from the previous round. 99% sure we would have been the same ball in the ballbag.

 

LOL. I said ballbag.

 

Yes LOL indeed Fry. That made me laugh. BTW what an utter load of ****** it is that the balls are retrieved from the bag before 2 ties have even been played (pedant blocker - 3 if you include the one that was postponed - but that one's understandable)

[Saint_clark]

I see that Everton dispatched Swansea with relative ease today then, so that's:

 

Clubs that had their midweek game postponed 3- Clubs that didn't 0.

 

Travesty of footballing justice really, still never mind "big clubs" always get their own way and do whatever they want.

 

Don't fancy your midweek game ? Never mind find a wobbly chimney or an icy puddle within 30 kilometres of the ground and call the health and safety brigade.

 

Mental, did you see the conditions at Man City? Definite danger there.

[RedArmy]

I see that Everton dispatched Swansea with relative ease today then, so that's:

 

Clubs that had their midweek game postponed 3- Clubs that didn't 0.

 

Travesty of footballing justice really, still never mind "big clubs" always get their own way and do whatever they want.

 

Don't fancy your midweek game ? Never mind find a wobbly chimney or an icy puddle within 30 kilometres of the ground and call the health and safety brigade.

Sunderland put out a weakened side with players that wouldn't have played in midweek. It makes zero difference to yesterday's result.

[Lets B Avenue]

It's not as simple as we would have got the same draw as Sunderland. Each team has a different numbered ball. The balls go into the bag numerically. So our ball would have been in a different place in the pot to Sunderland's.

 

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. The draw has followed the same pattern for the 50 years I've been supporting Saints and, I dare say, many years before that.

 

Rounds 4, 5, Q/F and S/F are drawn on the order your match came out in the previous round. We were 7th out of 8 for the 5th rd, so Sunderland were no.7.

 

Round 3 has the 2 top division clubs in alphabetical order. We are usually about no.35. Then all the sides that won rd.2, are numbered 45-64 depending on the order they were drawn in rd. 2.

[Window Cleaner]

Sunderland put out a weakened side with players that wouldn't have played in midweek. It makes zero difference to yesterday's result.

 

 

they didn't put out a weakened side, they put out a different side because they have made the signings to be able to do so. Look through it one by one, it's a side full of Argentine and Italian internationals.

 

Dossena,Borini,Giaccherini all Italian full internationals, Vergini and the keeper both Argentine internationals. Poyet has made some handy signings and their squad is far more homogenous than ours. He doesn't know who is better than whom yet, these lads have only just got there in some cases. Time they got the WPs and all it must be just about now that they're available.

 

They're in a crap league position because Di Canio got it all wrong but of late they won 7 out of their last 10 and will be away from relegation soon. Their side yesterday was better than ours if only because we had 3 absolute duffers who should be nowhere near a PL club.

 

I would have liked some of their signings actually, particularly the CB Vergini, Argentine full international for a 400K loan fee and we have to play Jos flipping Hooieveld...yeah right. We made no signings so what can you bloody well expect because we have to play donkeys against thouroughbreds.

Edited 16 February, 2014 by Window Cleaner

[Bearsy]

their squad is far more homogenous than ours.

 

That's prob why we brought on McQueen

[Lallana's Left Peg]

That's prob why we brought on McQueen

 

Well that is another thing that is a bit weird. Gallagher is given the weekend off of the Stoke game to deal with the passing of his Father and then comes straight back into the travelling squad for the Hull game. He doesn't get on (but is given a lot of running to do before the game) and then instead of taking him up to Sunderland to be the option of the bench for when we need a striker we decide to give him 90mins on the Friday for the U21 team and instead send McQueen up there.

 

Gallagher only missed a few days of training and two games and although he didn't play he wasn't injured and there is no doubt he could have contributed at Sunderland if we had decided we wanted him to do so.

 

Therefore whilst I could understand why we had to freshen things up a bit to deal with knocks etc. some of the other things we did just absolutely showed that the FA Cup is not a competition the club cared about anywhere near as much as the fans did.

[Window Cleaner]

Well that is another thing that is a bit weird. Gallagher is given the weekend off of the Stoke game to deal with the passing of his Father and then comes straight back into the travelling squad for the Hull game. He doesn't get on (but is given a lot of running to do before the game) and then instead of taking him up to Sunderland to be the option of the bench for when we need a striker we decide to give him 90mins on the Friday for the U21 team and instead send McQueen up there.

 

Gallagher only missed a few days of training and two games and although he didn't play he wasn't injured and there is no doubt he could have contributed at Sunderland if we had decided we wanted him to do so.

 

Therefore whilst I could understand why we had to freshen things up a bit to deal with knocks etc. some of the other things we did just absolutely showed that the FA Cup is not a competition the club cared about anywhere near as much as the fans did.

 

McQueen or Gallagher makes a great difference, we'd not deliberately hold back Gallagher just because we weren't particularly interested in the Cup, there must have been some other reason.

I am sure that if we knew more about the management of the young players by Reed we'd understand more easily. In the main these are not first team squad players and therefore they must fall under the command of Reed rather than Pochettino.