Maya Yoshida

[shurlock]

You're talking about one instance - and yes, it was a lousy pass by Yoshida.

 

I was talking about a trend.

 

After the way he's played this season and much of last, and the impact that his slowness and poor reading and positioning have on others, you're not seriously suggesting that Jos is a scapegoat, are you?

 

He is when Maya is Chez's scapegoat.

 

The game wasn't lost by the defense today.

[Graffito]

Assuming the club continues on its current path of continuos improvement, I believe that neither of today's CBs will be at the club next season.

[Whitey Grandad]

 

The game wasn't lost by the defense today.

 

Er...

[Matthew Le God]

The game wasn't lost by the defense today.

 

Yes it was, they were at fault for the goal. Plus Saints' style is to play out from the back, K.Davis, Yoshida and Hooiveld's distribution is so terrible it has a knock on effect to the whole team's style of play. Kelvin Davis kept kicking and throwing the ball out of play or to Sunderland, Hooiveld and Yoshida's short range passing is erratic and they keep using aimless hoofs. The three of them had a knock on effect as the rest of the team were unable to play its normal style if Boruc was in goal and Lovren and Fonte at centre back.

[shurlock]

Yes it was, they were at fault for the goal. Plus Saints' style is to play out from the back, K.Davis, Yoshida and Hooiveld's distribution is so terrible it has a knock on effect to the whole team's style of play. Kelvin Davis kept kicking and throwing the ball out of play or to Sunderland, Hooiveld and Yoshida's short range passing is erratic and they keep using aimless hoofs. The three of them had a knock on effect as the rest of the team were unable to play its normal style if Boruc was in goal and Lovren and Fonte at centre back.

 

Woods from the trees, pal.

 

Minute differences -Boruc's distribution vs. Kelvin's?

 

The defense didn't make much of a difference. End of.

 

Our pressing in all areas of the pitch lacked its usual intensity. If there was one part of the pitch that was guilty, it was midfield. Without Cork or Schneiderlin we didn't have the same poise and more frequently than not they drop back to take the ball off the CBs. More importantly Guly and JWP were virtually anonymous, leaving Lambert and Lallana isolated.

[Chez]

I don't rate Maya. I openly admit it. He has been Chris Perry mark II in my eyes. That said, I am very happy to say he has played well in the last few games and I particularly like the fact he is getting stuck in more. I hope that continues as it improves his game tenfold. A nasty Maya is worth having in the squad. But his passing at times is terrible. Not just wayward, but dangerous. He is an accident waiting to happen, just as you will no doubt say Jos is too. I guess every player makes mistakes, so all defenders are accidents waiting to happen to some extent, but Maya creates problems for us out of nothing.

 

As for Jos, he, like Fox will always struggle at this level due to his lack of pace. He does compensate to a degree by his strength in the air as he showed against Carroll at West ham! where he had him in his pocket. What I have always said about Jos and Maya is that they will do a job when called upon. As reserve centre backs they are not too bad. There are worse 3rd and 4th choice centre backs.Neither are starters. Neither has been a starter.

 

Maya has, as I said, been good recently and Jos was good towards the end of last season. That is of course is forgotten after a clumsy own goal or two, but that's understandable. He has looked very slow this season. He never was quick and maybe we can do better once his contract expires, but I obviously have a blind spot for him. I just can't make myself slate him after getting us promoted. In my eyes his signing changed our season and without him we would never have got promoted, so I'll continue to cut him far far far too much slack knowing full well that a bad own goal might be just around the corner.

 

Back to this thread, Yoshida passing straight to a Sunderland player 30 yards from goal leaving us wide open has absolutely nothing to do with Jos failings. Yoshida ****ed us and he, not Jos should be getting it in the neck, just as Jos did when he last made a mistake. But unsurprisingly Maya seems to have got a pass and the attention is diverted to Jos, despite him doing absolutely nothing wrong in the game. Slate Jos when he plays badly not when he plays well.

Edited 15 February, 2014 by Chez

[Matthew Le God]

Woods from the trees, pal.

 

They didn't make much of a difference. End of.

 

It made a huge difference, Saints are a side that play out from the back. K.Davis, Yoshida and Hooiveld kept giving the ball away which meant the team couldn't build a move as they would normally.

[Matthew Le God]

But unsurprisingly Maya seems to have got a pass and the attention is diverted to Jos despite him doing absolutely nothing wrong in the game.

 

They both did a lot wrong throughout the game, short passing was sloppy and both as usual resorted to aimless long balls to no-one in particular. It meant the team wasn't able to build from the back as it would normally. Both Yoshida and Hooiveld simply aren't good enough, even as cover for a top half Premier League side. They are liabilities whenever they are on the pitch. Yoshida less so, and he does do some good things but he is lacking in critical areas which still make him a liability in every game.

[shurlock]

It made a huge difference, Saints are a side that play out from the back. K.Davis, Yoshida and Hooiveld kept giving the ball away which meant the team couldn't build a move as they would normally.

 

I know how we play - I go to matches instead of playing computer games.

 

There were plenty of situations where the midfield had the ball and simply gave it away. In diagnosing our defeat, the defense would not be the no.1 cause. End of.

[Batman]

I know how we play - I go to matches instead of playing computer games.

 

There were plenty of situations where the midfield had the ball and simply gave it away. In diagnosing our defeat, the defense would not be the no.1 cause. End of.

 

you rude can you be?

[Chez]

They both did a lot wrong throughout the game, short passing was sloppy and both as usual resorted to aimless long balls to no-one in particular. It meant the team wasn't able to build from the back as it would normally. Both Yoshida and Hooiveld simply aren't good enough, even as cover for a top half Premier League side. They are liabilities whenever they are on the pitch. Yoshida less so, and he does do some good things but he is lacking in critical areas which still make him a liability in every game.

 

Jos wasn't sloppy and didn't play aimless long balls to no one in particular at all in this match. Preach your preconceived opinions and stereotypical descriptions to someone else thanks.

[Matthew Le God]

I know how we play - I go to matches instead of playing computer games.

 

There were plenty of situations where the midfield had the ball and simply gave it away. In diagnosing our defeat, the defense would not be the no.1 cause. End of.

 

Petty, personal and factually wrong insults, top stuff.

 

Goes against your location doesn't it?

 

Join Date Aug 2008

Location Playing the post not the poster

I have a season ticket and know how we play. Had we put out a stronger keeper and centre back pairing capable of retaining the ball better Saints would have built more attacks, controlled the game better and not given the ball away to the opposition so cheaply allowing them to attack us. That was key to the poor performance, we didn't have a solid base to work from and it restricted the midfielders, fullbacks and attackers from playing their normal game and were often on the back foot due to distribution mistakes from K.Davis, Hooiveld and Yoshida.

Edited 15 February, 2014 by Matthew Le God

[shurlock]

Petty, personal and factually wrong insults, top stuff.

 

Goes against your location doesn't it?

 

 

I have a season ticket and know how we play. Had we put out a stronger keeper and centre back pairing capable of retaining the ball better Saints would have built more attacks, controlled the game better and not given the ball away to the opposition so cheaply allowing them to attack us. That was key to the poor performance, we didn't have a solid base to work from and it restricted the midfielders, fullbacks and attackers from playing their normal game and were often on the back foot due to distribution mistakes from K.Davis, Hooiveld and Yoshida.

 

 

Maybe this makes more sense to you.

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/803993/LiveStatistics/England-FA-Cup-2013-2014-Sunderland-Southampton

 

Neither CB comes out particularly badly both in terms of pass completion and more importantly match rating - indeed they stand out compared to other areas of the pitch.

 

Davis distribution was poor but Boruc hardly covers himself in glory either.

 

To recount, the defense didn't lose us the game.

Edited 15 February, 2014 by shurlock

[Badger]

Goal is here to dissect.

 

It does look a rather feeble pass from the back that sets it all in motion, think it is Yoshida., and a half hearted tackle from Wanyama that gives him a chance to hit it. Good strike, but clearly needlessly gifted to them and then preventable:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvY7qCNEw90

 

 

Yes, Yoshida has improved etc but he remains a mistake a game player. Even last Saturday he slipped on his arse at one point in the second half, but nothing came of it. Today's was more costly.

[Matthew Le God]

Maybe this makes more sense to you.

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/803993/LiveStatistics/England-FA-Cup-2013-2014-Sunderland-Southampton

 

Neither CB comes out particularly badly both in terms of pass completion and more importantly match rating - indeed they stand out compared to other areas of the pitch.

 

Pass completion is a nonsense stat to use and it is easily twisted. It doesn't differentiate between a simple to make pass with one that is high risk but creative or a major error and a pass that shouldn't have been attempted in the first place. You could spend the whole game making backwards and sideways passes and rack up close to 100% pass completion rate but does it really mean by default yo have done well?

Edited 15 February, 2014 by Matthew Le God

[Chez]

Petty, personal and factually wrong insults, top stuff.

 

Goes against your location doesn't it?

 

 

I have a season ticket and know how we play. Had we put out a stronger keeper and centre back pairing capable of retaining the ball better Saints would have built more attacks, controlled the game better and not given the ball away to the opposition so cheaply allowing them to attack us. That was key to the poor performance, we didn't have a solid base to work from and it restricted the midfielders, fullbacks and attackers from playing their normal game and were often on the back foot due to distribution mistakes from K.Davis, Hooiveld and Yoshida.

that is one opinion, but not one I agree with. Our failings were throughout the side not just in goal and at centre back. Boruc kicking has been poor in recent times, just like Davis. I didn't think Jos distribution was that bad at all. Maya overall passed OK, obviously the goal was his partly his fault and down to a bad pass, but I didn't see the two giving the ball away time after time.

 

I would look the number of poor passes from midfielders, Davis was especially poor in the first half, the lack of movement from midfielders, Wanyama doesn't make himself available anywhere near enough and the lack of penetration from the like of Clyne and Guly. Lallana was poor in the second half and Prowse never dominates a game and this was no different.

 

Far too easy to blame Davis, Jos and Maya.

Edited 15 February, 2014 by Chez

[shurlock]

Pass completion is a nonsense stat to use and it is easily twisted. It doesn't differentiate between a simple to make pass with one that is high risk but creative or a major error and a pass that shouldn't have been attempted in the first place. You could spend the whole game making backwards and sideways passes and rack up close to 100% pass completion rate but does it really mean by default yo have done well?

 

Most of our CB passes are simple - they usually lay it off to a midfielder who drops back to collect, so not sure what youre claiming.

 

I also said match ratings -statswise- are a better indicator, so I don't need a lesson from you.

 

More important I know what I saw with my own eyes.

 

You seem to be alone on this thread in attributing responsibility for the defeat to the CBs and GK.

Edited 15 February, 2014 by shurlock

[alpine_saint]

I am a strong believer in looking at the back 5 as a unit.

 

I remember how pants Niemi looked having to play behind Klaus at Krap Notarf in April 2005.

 

Pochettino today elected to play Jos and Kelvin (not so sure Clyne vs. Chambers had a real impact). You can argue he changed 2 or 3 of the back 5. Not forgetting VW played for Morgan (utter insanity..)

 

And we wonder why today unfolded as it did.

[Smirking_Saint]

Yes it was, they were at fault for the goal. Plus Saints' style is to play out from the back, K.Davis, Yoshida and Hooiveld's distribution is so terrible it has a knock on effect to the whole team's style of play. Kelvin Davis kept kicking and throwing the ball out of play or to Sunderland, Hooiveld and Yoshida's short range passing is erratic and they keep using aimless hoofs. The three of them had a knock on effect as the rest of the team were unable to play its normal style if Boruc was in goal and Lovren and Fonte at centre back.

 

In any game of football if you lose the midfield battle you will make life very hard on ourselves

 

We lost the midfield battle.

 

Defensively we were not terrible, Mayas distribution was arguably better then Jos and davis TBH, the whole team was dire, nothing stuck upfront, we didnt control the midfield and mistakes were made at the back

[Deano6]

Petty, personal and factually wrong insults, top stuff.

 

Goes against your location doesn't it?

 

 

I have a season ticket and know how we play. Had we put out a stronger keeper and centre back pairing capable of retaining the ball better Saints would have built more attacks, controlled the game better and not given the ball away to the opposition so cheaply allowing them to attack us. That was key to the poor performance, we didn't have a solid base to work from and it restricted the midfielders, fullbacks and attackers from playing their normal game and were often on the back foot due to distribution mistakes from K.Davis, Hooiveld and Yoshida.

 

I usually agree with a lot of what you say MLG, but you are being overly generous on our midfield / attackers today and letting them off incredibly lightly. We all know Jos / Kelv and maybe Maya are limited, but its all too easy to say everything was their fault. We let in one goal from a long range strike, while on the other hand we didn't create any goalscoring opportunities of note, other than one great chance that was spooned over from 2 yards out.

 

I do hear what you're saying, but agree with the other poster who says the defence is not what lost us the game today. The attacking unit need to do better than cry foul that they didn't get good enough passes from the centre backs.