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Gaston Ramirez...


Unbelievable Jeff

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I agree Ramirez might have added a spark in the latter stages today, but what we were really lacking was someone up top with some clever movement or some out and out width. It was a shame Clyne went off as he looked like he could have been the key. All too often we got in promising positions and yet tried to play impossible passes through the centre. The Stoke defence was well-drilled and didn't really break sweat dealing with our play in the final third.

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The club said that both Gaston and Dejan would be out 6-8 weeks, announced the last week of the transfer window.

Now it looks like they could be back a lot earlier......

 

Could it be that the club wanted to keep Gaston and fought off possible clubs that wanted him on loan until the summer by saying that he would be out for so long, while they actually knew he might be back earlier..?

 

Just a thought since he showed progression in the right way the last month and from MP´s comments about him being an important part of the team...

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Say what you like about Ramirez, he WILL take the responsibility to at least TRY and create something rather than the passengers in many teams across the Premiership (at least 6 of them start for Manchester United each week) who hide in big games, repeatedly passing the ball backwards rather than taking on the challenge of trying to find that killer pass or take players on.

 

That fantastic assist for the Lallana goal vs West Brom? Had he not pulled that very difficult pass off he'd have got a massive groan from the crowd and people on here would be rolling their eyes and *****ing about how he always gives the ball away.

 

On the other side of the coin, he could have avoided that situation by taking a touch, and rolling it back to our defenders. Someone else's responsibility now. Not my problem.

 

...but he didn't. He attempted the very, very difficult pass despite the risk of looking like a fool, pulled it off. We won 1-0.

 

Look at how long it took Lallana to even be remotely effective in the Champo and League friggin' 1! And this wasn't as a teenager! This was as a 22-year old! Precisely the same age Gaston is now!

 

Clearly some of us supported the team in the lower leagues, and some of us were armchair supporters. Because Lallana was in team of the year in both League 1 and Championship... Also, I am slightly confused by "look at how long it took lallana to be even remotley effective in the championship" - 1 season, 1 team of the year?

 

Its like the myth pedalled about It being obvious we needed a new goalkeeper for years before we were promoted. Kelvin was in 3 consecutive team of the years :lol: But we needed better!!!! Obviously!!! He just wasn't good enough for us, even then!

 

That said, your point about ramirez and having the balls and abilty to take risks is exactly sport on... The fans that knock him would probably like a team of 11 Carricks to pass the ball in horizontal lines for 90min :mcinnes:

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Clearly some of us supported the team in the lower leagues, and some of us were armchair supporters. Because Lallana was in team of the year in both League 1 and Championship... Also, I am slightly confused by "look at how long it took lallana to be even remotley effective in the championship" - 1 season, 1 team of the year?

 

Its like the myth pedalled about It being obvious we needed a new goalkeeper for years before we were promoted. Kelvin was in 3 consecutive team of the years :lol: But we needed better!!!! Obviously!!! He just wasn't good enough for us, even then!

 

That said, your point about ramirez and having the balls and abilty to take risks is exactly sport on... The fans that knock him would probably like a team of 11 Carricks to pass the ball in horizontal lines for 90min :mcinnes:

 

You give a player bought for £12 Million a four year contract, how long do you let him settle in for? 50% of that contract? 30%?

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You give a player bought for £12 Million a four year contract, how long do you let him settle in for? 50% of that contract? 30%?

 

what's my alternative barry? Can i get my money back or do i have to give him free transfer? I'm thinking if someone's playing less good than i hoped i pretty much have to take it, until they either get better or get sold. What do you want from me?

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Clearly some of us supported the team in the lower leagues, and some of us were armchair supporters. Because Lallana was in team of the year in both League 1 and Championship... Also, I am slightly confused by "look at how long it took lallana to be even remotley effective in the championship" - 1 season, 1 team of the year?

What about Lallana in the Championship in 08-09? He played 40 league games that season. He played a handful in each of the previous 2 seasons as well (well 6 to be precise). So 2 full seasons in the Championship and 2 in League One. He was not in the League One team of the season in 09-10, though to be fair he did score 15 league goals. So he was not actually selected for any team of the year until May 2011 when he was 22, nearly 23 (and that in League One), remarkably similar age to Senor Ramirez (who is struggling to be totally effective in the Premier League, not League Friggin 1).

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transfer window is closed, barry :( I will sell him in summer, I reckon there's fair chance we can palm him off on Arry. £20m+ prob, mates rates.

 

With his contributions, I would rather we bring white dee in on the right and flog him, would be more difficult to knock off the ball..........................

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  • 1 month later...

@alex_crook: The agent of #saintsfc midfielder Gaston Ramirez is again touting the Uruguayan for a return to Italy this summer.

 

@alex_crook: Agent Pablo Betancourt says Ramirez has had a 'season to forget' after scoring one goal in 17 #epl games for #saintsfc

 

@alex_crook: Betancourt: 'Ramirez played very well in Italy and Serie A clubs still remember him positively.' #saintsfc #transfers

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Clearly some of us supported the team in the lower leagues, and some of us were armchair supporters. Because Lallana was in team of the year in both League 1 and Championship... Also, I am slightly confused by "look at how long it took lallana to be even remotley effective in the championship" - 1 season, 1 team of the year?

 

Its like the myth pedalled about It being obvious we needed a new goalkeeper for years before we were promoted. Kelvin was in 3 consecutive team of the years :lol: But we needed better!!!! Obviously!!! He just wasn't good enough for us, even then!

 

That said, your point about ramirez and having the balls and abilty to take risks is exactly sport on... The fans that knock him would probably like a team of 11 Carricks to pass the ball in horizontal lines for 90min :mcinnes:

 

I've been a season ticket holder throughout our time in the Champo and League One and clearly you're not thinking back as far as I am.

 

In the season we were relegated from the Championship, 08/09, Lallana scored one goal. One single goal. Lallana and Schneiderlin were (and actually Cork for half a season) were all part of the team relegated from the Championship.

 

The next season, it took him a good 10 matches to really become effective. So thats about 1 and a quarter seasons to get into his stride, and this is being a fixture in the team with his place never under threat.

 

How many starts and 90-minute appearances has Gaston had? and in an established role to settle into? Almost certainly nowhere near what Lallana had in the 08/09 season alone.

 

Saints have once again tried to have their cake and eat it when it comes to Ramirez. Very early on any fan could tell you that he's a player you're either all in with and you're going to build your team around him in the number 10 role etc. OR you abandon ship and sell him.

 

Bringing him on as a sub rarely changes the game even when he himself actually has a stormer (West Ham away for example). Give him 90 minutes and he has the potential to tear teams apart (Villa at home, first ever win in the Premiership, best individual performance I've seen in my life for Saints by far; you simply had to be there.)

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@alex_crook: The agent of #saintsfc midfielder Gaston Ramirez is again touting the Uruguayan for a return to Italy this summer.

 

@alex_crook: Agent Pablo Betancourt says Ramirez has had a 'season to forget' after scoring one goal in 17 #epl games for #saintsfc

 

@alex_crook: Betancourt: 'Ramirez played very well in Italy and Serie A clubs still remember him positively.' #saintsfc #transfers

 

Excellent news. Hopefully we'll get most of his transfer fee back to spend on someone who actually wants to be here and is interested in the cause.

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However much " potential " we could see in buying in expensive foreign internationals has been brought into question TWICE now.

 

Clearly Gaston isn't happy NOT playing games, but if he wants a move then reluctantly I'd say - let him go. He costs a lot of money and the salary would be better spent keeping / encouraging our best players.

 

There has already been TOO much press about the Osvaldo fiasco, and he admitted in an interview (in Italy) that the English game was a lot tougher than he had expected.

 

The South-American talent is obviously used to the open football and clever footwork , but Prem.defenders won't let them get away with that too often.

 

It's unlikely that we could field a total British line-up, but when we sign "big-fee" foreigners - let's be sure they're good enough to be first on the team sheet and not an occasional name of the bench.

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I've been a season ticket holder throughout our time in the Champo and League One and clearly you're not thinking back as far as I am.

 

In the season we were relegated from the Championship, 08/09, Lallana scored one goal. One single goal. Lallana and Schneiderlin were (and actually Cork for half a season) were all part of the team relegated from the Championship.

 

The next season, it took him a good 10 matches to really become effective. So thats about 1 and a quarter seasons to get into his stride, and this is being a fixture in the team with his place never under threat.

 

How many starts and 90-minute appearances has Gaston had? and in an established role to settle into? Almost certainly nowhere near what Lallana had in the 08/09 season alone.

 

Saints have once again tried to have their cake and eat it when it comes to Ramirez. Very early on any fan could tell you that he's a player you're either all in with and you're going to build your team around him in the number 10 role etc. OR you abandon ship and sell him.

 

Bringing him on as a sub rarely changes the game even when he himself actually has a stormer (West Ham away for example). Give him 90 minutes and he has the potential to tear teams apart (Villa at home, first ever win in the Premiership, best individual performance I've seen in my life for Saints by far; you simply had to be there.)

Give him 90mins? When has he ever managed to complete that for us? He'll be off in the summer, best decision for all parties.
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Excellent news. Hopefully we'll get most of his transfer fee back to spend on someone who actually wants to be here and is interested in the cause.

 

If we could get our money back for ramirez and half what we payed for Osvaldo I would give a huge sigh of relief. We can then go about strengthening in areas that we know are weak.

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I've been a season ticket holder throughout our time in the Champo and League One and clearly you're not thinking back as far as I am.

 

In the season we were relegated from the Championship, 08/09, Lallana scored one goal. One single goal. Lallana and Schneiderlin were (and actually Cork for half a season) were all part of the team relegated from the Championship.

 

The next season, it took him a good 10 matches to really become effective. So thats about 1 and a quarter seasons to get into his stride, and this is being a fixture in the team with his place never under threat.

 

How many starts and 90-minute appearances has Gaston had? and in an established role to settle into? Almost certainly nowhere near what Lallana had in the 08/09 season alone.

 

Saints have once again tried to have their cake and eat it when it comes to Ramirez. Very early on any fan could tell you that he's a player you're either all in with and you're going to build your team around him in the number 10 role etc. OR you abandon ship and sell him.

 

Bringing him on as a sub rarely changes the game even when he himself actually has a stormer (West Ham away for example). Give him 90 minutes and he has the potential to tear teams apart (Villa at home, first ever win in the Premiership, best individual performance I've seen in my life for Saints by far; you simply had to be there.)

 

Whilst a very valid argument for the chap, when you look at Lallana in isolation whilst he might not have been banging them in for fun which seems to raise the point of the greater chances he has had compared to Gaston, the bottom line is attitude. Lallana in the eyes of the fans through all our troubles has alway been a positive one, whereas Gaston like Osvaldo have come in with big price tags and shown a Billy Big ****** attitude yet have failed to deliver or shown over a full 90 minutes how good they really are. Positive attitude, the team that rolls out most weeks is full of the same ordinary players who show the right attitude, if Gaston showed the right attitude he would be asking questions of the manager everytime he took to the field or in training, but then when you look at international games Yoshida back from Japan quick smart Ramirez by comparison ambles back.

If his attitude in application was right MoPo would be forced to pick him, Rickie Lambert off the bench is a man on a mission, Gaston Ramirez off the bench, loose the ball more often than not in the space of a few minutes, v Newcastle Morgan replacing Steven in midfield a Jack Russell chasing everything past his gate replaced by a Ninja straight off the bench.

 

Its all down to attitude and application who makes the line up on a Saturday, 18-19 year old Academy lads opportunity given, opportunity taken, Gaston Ramirez opportunity given and treated as his god given right. MoPo's style of play requires workers and fair play to him if one of our most expensive players is not showing the right attitude he is not going to upset the balance of the side just by putting him in the team because of price tag and supposed ability, he is going to put players into the side because of their application and attitude.

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Whilst a very valid argument for the chap, when you look at Lallana in isolation whilst he might not have been banging them in for fun which seems to raise the point of the greater chances he has had compared to Gaston, the bottom line is attitude. Lallana in the eyes of the fans through all our troubles has alway been a positive one, whereas Gaston like Osvaldo have come in with big price tags and shown a Billy Big ****** attitude yet have failed to deliver or shown over a full 90 minutes how good they really are. Positive attitude, the team that rolls out most weeks is full of the same ordinary players who show the right attitude, if Gaston showed the right attitude he would be asking questions of the manager everytime he took to the field or in training, but then when you look at international games Yoshida back from Japan quick smart Ramirez by comparison ambles back.

If his attitude in application was right MoPo would be forced to pick him, Rickie Lambert off the bench is a man on a mission, Gaston Ramirez off the bench, loose the ball more often than not in the space of a few minutes, v Newcastle Morgan replacing Steven in midfield a Jack Russell chasing everything past his gate replaced by a Ninja straight off the bench.

 

Its all down to attitude and application who makes the line up on a Saturday, 18-19 year old Academy lads opportunity given, opportunity taken, Gaston Ramirez opportunity given and treated as his god given right. MoPo's style of play requires workers and fair play to him if one of our most expensive players is not showing the right attitude he is not going to upset the balance of the side just by putting him in the team because of price tag and supposed ability, he is going to put players into the side because of their application and attitude.

 

Excellent post!

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Whilst a very valid argument for the chap, when you look at Lallana in isolation whilst he might not have been banging them in for fun which seems to raise the point of the greater chances he has had compared to Gaston, the bottom line is attitude. Lallana in the eyes of the fans through all our troubles has alway been a positive one, whereas Gaston like Osvaldo have come in with big price tags and shown a Billy Big ****** attitude yet have failed to deliver or shown over a full 90 minutes how good they really are. Positive attitude, the team that rolls out most weeks is full of the same ordinary players who show the right attitude, if Gaston showed the right attitude he would be asking questions of the manager everytime he took to the field or in training, but then when you look at international games Yoshida back from Japan quick smart Ramirez by comparison ambles back.

If his attitude in application was right MoPo would be forced to pick him, Rickie Lambert off the bench is a man on a mission, Gaston Ramirez off the bench, loose the ball more often than not in the space of a few minutes, v Newcastle Morgan replacing Steven in midfield a Jack Russell chasing everything past his gate replaced by a Ninja straight off the bench.

 

Its all down to attitude and application who makes the line up on a Saturday, 18-19 year old Academy lads opportunity given, opportunity taken, Gaston Ramirez opportunity given and treated as his god given right. MoPo's style of play requires workers and fair play to him if one of our most expensive players is not showing the right attitude he is not going to upset the balance of the side just by putting him in the team because of price tag and supposed ability, he is going to put players into the side because of their application and attitude.

Bit unfair that. Don't think there has been a huge problem with Ramirez's attitude here, certainly not fair putting him in the same bracket as Osvaldo.

 

If we could get £10m for Ramirez and £8m for Osvaldo, I'd take that, still a load of cash to reinvest and big wages off the books.

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Whilst a very valid argument for the chap, when you look at Lallana in isolation whilst he might not have been banging them in for fun which seems to raise the point of the greater chances he has had compared to Gaston, the bottom line is attitude. Lallana in the eyes of the fans through all our troubles has alway been a positive one, whereas Gaston like Osvaldo have come in with big price tags and shown a Billy Big ****** attitude yet have failed to deliver or shown over a full 90 minutes how good they really are. Positive attitude, the team that rolls out most weeks is full of the same ordinary players who show the right attitude, if Gaston showed the right attitude he would be asking questions of the manager everytime he took to the field or in training, but then when you look at international games Yoshida back from Japan quick smart Ramirez by comparison ambles back.

If his attitude in application was right MoPo would be forced to pick him, Rickie Lambert off the bench is a man on a mission, Gaston Ramirez off the bench, loose the ball more often than not in the space of a few minutes, v Newcastle Morgan replacing Steven in midfield a Jack Russell chasing everything past his gate replaced by a Ninja straight off the bench.

 

Its all down to attitude and application who makes the line up on a Saturday, 18-19 year old Academy lads opportunity given, opportunity taken, Gaston Ramirez opportunity given and treated as his god given right. MoPo's style of play requires workers and fair play to him if one of our most expensive players is not showing the right attitude he is not going to upset the balance of the side just by putting him in the team because of price tag and supposed ability, he is going to put players into the side because of their application and attitude.

 

Spot on.

 

The comparison of Yoshi back in the squad a week after an international call-up compared to Gashy taking a month especially strikes a chord.

 

The bloke's taken us for a ride. I am guessing we were a stepping stone into a big English club for him, like Berkovic, but it didnt work out so he wants to tuck his tail between his legs (hopefully it wont get injured...) and bog off back to Italy.

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To be fair, Gaston's attitude seems to have been good overall. Yes, he's moaned to MP about not getting first team football but you'd want him to unhappy at not playing enough. He just doesn't seem to fit our system so these next 6 games are crucial in him getting a run of form and gaining those understandings of the team's pattern of play.

 

If he can't get a run now and MP stays (which I hope he does), I can see Gaston being sold to fund new additions. However, if MP leaves Gaston might want to see who comes in next.

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Whilst a very valid argument for the chap, when you look at Lallana in isolation whilst he might not have been banging them in for fun which seems to raise the point of the greater chances he has had compared to Gaston, the bottom line is attitude. Lallana in the eyes of the fans through all our troubles has alway been a positive one, whereas Gaston like Osvaldo have come in with big price tags and shown a Billy Big ****** attitude yet have failed to deliver or shown over a full 90 minutes how good they really are. Positive attitude, the team that rolls out most weeks is full of the same ordinary players who show the right attitude, if Gaston showed the right attitude he would be asking questions of the manager everytime he took to the field or in training, but then when you look at international games Yoshida back from Japan quick smart Ramirez by comparison ambles back.

If his attitude in application was right MoPo would be forced to pick him, Rickie Lambert off the bench is a man on a mission, Gaston Ramirez off the bench, loose the ball more often than not in the space of a few minutes, v Newcastle Morgan replacing Steven in midfield a Jack Russell chasing everything past his gate replaced by a Ninja straight off the bench.

 

Its all down to attitude and application who makes the line up on a Saturday, 18-19 year old Academy lads opportunity given, opportunity taken, Gaston Ramirez opportunity given and treated as his god given right. MoPo's style of play requires workers and fair play to him if one of our most expensive players is not showing the right attitude he is not going to upset the balance of the side just by putting him in the team because of price tag and supposed ability, he is going to put players into the side because of their application and attitude.

 

Same reason Mata's no longer at Chelsea. Seems nobody is too talented to be left out if they don't work hard enough for the team.

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Think the attitude towards him is disgusting. Wouldn't happen if he was English and had come through the academy. A lot of people seemingly can't handle the big transfer fees and wages and just start raging without any facts. Although certain posters do that in every aspect of life.

 

He wouldn't get the abuse if he was the technically limited headless chicken type player either, which sums up the problem with the international game. A side supported by endless moronic fans who prefer the David Battys to the creative players. Thank fck forums like this weren't around when Le Tissier was playing. Would have been truly gutted to see our resident dicks belittle his efforts every other week.

 

Still, maybe Ramirez will make his mark at a smaller club like Inter or AC Milan.

Apart from a couple of posts on here, what abuse does Ramirez get? Do you really think his transfer fee is completely irrelvant to the assessment of him? His style of play will be better suited to Italy, it's where he'll most likely be playing next year.
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Think the attitude towards him is disgusting. Wouldn't happen if he was English and had come through the academy. A lot of people seemingly can't handle the big transfer fees and wages and just start raging without any facts. Although certain posters do that in every aspect of life.

 

 

If he had come through the academy, yes you are right; he wouldnt have cost us 12m in transfer fee and an estimated 5m in wages. The point about his nationality is complete b*ll*cks, apart from the fact that his call-ups for Uruguay give him all the excuse he needs for swinging the lead for us because it is so far away (is it further than Japan?)

 

As a fan of a club that has always had to count its pennies in the past (and perhaps it still does...), yes, monstrous transfer fees and wages for f**k-all return bothers me intensely.

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Apart from a couple of posts on here, what abuse does Ramirez get? Do you really think his transfer fee is completely irrelvant to the assessment of him? His style of play will be better suited to Italy, it's where he'll most likely be playing next year.

 

Totally unconvinced by the "ill-fitting style-of-play" argument. Good players can adapt (if they want to). Maybe hes not as good as the hype....

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Totally unconvinced by the "ill-fitting style-of-play" argument. Good players can adapt (if they want to). Maybe hes not as good as the hype....

 

 

It's not about hype, good players don't always adapt, Gaston is just the latest in a long line of players particularly from the Italian league who've not adapted to the PL. English football is different from most other kinds, particularly in it's intensity.

Some great players have failed to make the grade in the PL and then gone on to show real class elsewhere again.

We saw this last night in the Chelsea PSG game, not one of PSG's half a billion £ side could handle the intensity of the Chelsea onslaught once they'd take the lead, the second goal was bound to come. In many countries a game lasts for about 30 minutes in real time and only 1 game in 3 or 4 is a toughy because of the poor quality of many sides in the league. In the UK every PL game is hard and relentless, there's no hiding place for wishy washy part timers,whatever their talents might be.

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It's not about hype, good players don't always adapt, Gaston is just the latest in a long line of players particularly from the Italian league who've not adapted to the PL. English football is different from most other kinds, particularly in it's intensity.

Some great players have failed to make the grade in the PL and then gone on to show real class elsewhere again.

We saw this last night in the Chelsea PSG game, not one of PSG's half a billion £ side could handle the intensity of the Chelsea onslaught once they'd take the lead, the second goal was bound to come. In many countries a game lasts for about 30 minutes in real time and only 1 game in 3 or 4 is a toughy because of the poor quality of many sides in the league. In the UK every PL game is hard and relentless, there's no hiding place for wishy washy part timers,whatever their talents might be.

 

So why do so many teams spend so much money on players from Italy if it is so high-risk ?

 

And it still doesnt discount the possibility that he simply has never "been in to us".

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So why do so many teams spend so much money on players from Italy if it is so high-risk ?

 

And it still doesnt discount the possibility that he simply has never "been in to us".

 

 

Because they're easy to sign due to the fluid nature of the Italian transfer system, you never know who's going to adapt and who isn't. I must say that I feel that our "recruiting department" whatever that may comprise is pretty useless in the majority of cases. A new sporting director may be just what we need because whoever has been filling the role these last 2 years is pretty poor (IMO of course). Now you may attribute that to Cortese or whoever on the board but the guy in charge of recruiting (Mitchell is it ?) and the scouts need a real overhaul because,Lee, Gazza,Foren,Mayuka,Gaston and Osvaldo have cost us a lot for absolutely no return whatsoever.

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Think the attitude towards him is disgusting. Wouldn't happen if he was English and had come through the academy. A lot of people seemingly can't handle the big transfer fees and wages and just start raging without any facts. Although certain posters do that in every aspect of life.

 

He wouldn't get the abuse if he was the technically limited headless chicken type player either, which sums up the problem with the international game. A side supported by endless moronic fans who prefer the David Battys to the creative players. Thank fck forums like this weren't around when Le Tissier was playing. Would have been truly gutted to see our resident dicks belittle his efforts every other week.

 

Still, maybe Ramirez will make his mark at a smaller club like Inter or AC Milan.

 

Amen!

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Totally unconvinced by the "ill-fitting style-of-play" argument. Good players can adapt (if they want to). Maybe hes not as good as the hype....

 

Yes, Juan Sebastian Veron was a very bad player indeed, and the list can go on as long as you would like....

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So why do so many teams spend so much money on players from Italy if it is so high-risk ?

 

And it still doesnt discount the possibility that he simply has never "been in to us".

 

Is it a possibility now?

 

I thought that was a dead certain thing just an hour or so ago in your posts...??

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