Can we thank UKIP for one thing?

[pap]

Just because you don't remember or were not around for it, it doesn't mean you don't long for it...Lots of people do.

 

Also, I'm not enthralled by the global market but it's the situation we find ourselves in.

 

And one of the big reasons we're in a global market is the emergence of supra-national trading blocs, which you do seem to be supporting.

[Halo Stickman]

I remember the Empire – it was a very sad day when it was replaced by that bloody multiplex

[Lord Duckhunter]

Hockey saint

 

Bob Crowe is one of the biggest voices against immigrants

 

Is he a typical right winger?

 

That other swivel eyed right wing loon Tony Benn is very anti EU as well.

 

Its not about wanting to return to the empire, or sending johhny foreigner home , its about British people deciding levels of immigration. Something that can never happen until we leave the EU.

[Hockey_saint]

That other swivel eyed right wing loon Tony Benn is very anti EU as well.

 

Its not about wanting to return to the empire, or sending johhny foreigner home , its about British people deciding levels of immigration. Something that can never happen until we leave the EU.

 

We'll never leave the EU because it will not please the businesses that back both sides of the political spectrum. Besides, I would suggest that Tony Benn is a very old man who being anti-EU is acting against his own politcal beliefs....but then as Tony Blair said once, no one is completely left or completely right....I mean, even some right wingers have compassion and care about those less fortunate than themselves,

[Barry Sanchez]

There are some short memories at work here. Let's not forget that Michael Howard made immigration the central focus of his campaign against New Labour back in 2005. He talked about the issues and lost that campaign quite resoundingly.

 

Where our views don't diverge is your assertion that perception is everything. That's really the biggest issue, largely because most people are incapable of forming their own views leaving their perception of the situation f**ked.

 

Immigration is hardly alone in its status as a de facto ignored topic. There are a range of "untouchables" that'll never get addressed, from drug prohibition to the green economy. For this, I think the electoral system plays a huge part. Huge numbers of people vote for certain principles, only to have their wishes diluted by the first-past-the-post constituency-based system. Using the immigration question as an example, you might find that there are millions of concerned voices with no political representation, simply because those voices are not joined up and never can be. UKIP would have 20 Westminster seats based on a fair reflection of the 2010 General Election; BNP would have had 12. Some might argue that's not a bad thing; pointing out that FPTP keeps extremists out of Parliament.

 

I tend to see the other angle; we disenfranchise the electorate and feed the extremists within the parties that we'd seek to exclude. They'll always be able to correctly claim that the system is set up against them, because it is. That applies to any special interest party.

 

 

For once I agree with you.

[Barry Sanchez]

Hockey saint

 

Bob Crowe is one of the biggest voices against immigrants

 

Is he a typical right winger?

 

He is like many large Unions and their membership sceptical of the EU and the rights of the British worker regardless of origin.

[Barry Sanchez]

We'll never leave the EU because it will not please the businesses that back both sides of the political spectrum. Besides, I would suggest that Tony Benn is a very old man who being anti-EU is acting against his own politcal beliefs....but then as Tony Blair said once, no one is completely left or completely right....I mean, even some right wingers have compassion and care about those less fortunate than themselves,

 

We will only ever expand the EU as its cheap labour for the Nation and new markets for big business. The workers and residents of this Nation matter not, if they did they would have given us a vote, its a denial of democracy.

[Hockey_saint]

He is like many large Unions and their membership sceptical of the EU and the rights of the British worker regardless of origin.

 

Now that's probably a good example of what I mentioned actually, because that's certainly nationalism (although they'd say that's their remit) but it's certainly more right than left (in a global socialist kinda view). Actually Barry Sanchez, I think you're right, the EU was born out of a left ideal, but you could say it's been hijacked by those who traditionally back the right, those big businesses.

Edited 4 February, 2014 by Hockey_saint

[pap]

Seems like the press are really going after UKIP.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/04/ukip-mep-gerard-batten-muslims-sign-charter-rejecting-violence

 

Looks like a big story, but basically, they've just pulled an MEP to stand by what he said in 2006.

[Barry Sanchez]

Seems like the press are really going after UKIP.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/04/ukip-mep-gerard-batten-muslims-sign-charter-rejecting-violence

 

Looks like a big story, but basically, they've just pulled an MEP to stand by what he said in 2006.

 

 

Of course they are, its an agenda driven campaign as well, I wouldn't vote for them at all but its bullying as they have a point and it scares the big boys.

[pap]

Of course they are, its an agenda driven campaign as well, I wouldn't vote for them at all but its bullying as they have a point and it scares the big boys.

 

The other thing to remember was that this was 2006, a year after 7/7.

[buctootim]

Papers like the Guardian revile UKIP because of their politics and papers like the Mail and Telegraph subtly undermine them because at core their allegiance is the Conservatives and its an election year.

 

My problem with his views is they are very simplistic and assume Islam is some kind of unified theology. There are so many divisions of opinion between different branches of Islam, between cultures, countries and class. Different sections of Islam disagree with others probably more virulently than UKIP do.

[pap]

It's a very simple political trick though. I know this because the Conservatives did the same thing ("look what you said!") to the Lib Dems writ large after the election.