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Flooding in Somerset


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You do realise that giving money to people in Somerset/Surrey right now does nothing? He has also said compensation will be given and people will be helped when it is needed. What an odd quote?

 

Not sure why anyone should get compensation, isn't things like this why you get insurance?

 

I would rather my money went to people in the 3rd world who actually need it not to re-carpet the house of some ass-hole who thought it was clever to buy a house next to a river.

 

Actually, my back garden is a bit boggy, I fancy getting it paved - how do I apply for compo?

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Not sure why anyone should get compensation, isn't things like this why you get insurance?

 

I would rather my money went to people in the 3rd world who actually need it not to re-carpet the house of some ass-hole who thought it was clever to buy a house next to a river.

 

Actually, my back garden is a bit boggy, I fancy getting it paved - how do I apply for compo?

what a disgusting attitude

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what a disgusting attitude

 

I feel sorry for them on a personal level, it's not a great situation if you are effected. I just hate this blame/compensation culture, no one is to blame for the situation except mother nature and the people who choose to live on flood plains.

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I feel sorry for them on a personal level, it's not a great situation if you are effected. I just hate this blame/compensation culture, no one is to blame for the situation except mother nature and the people who choose to live on flood plains.

 

I agree. If a tree blew down on my house how much compensation would I get?

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I agree. If a tree blew down on my house how much compensation would I get?

 

It depends - there's no simple, glib answer to such a glib question. Speaking from my neighbour's recent experience, you'd get full compensation from the local council. Trees blow down for all kinds of reasons, including local authority neglect. Flooding is the same. Lots of rain is one thing; why a particular place floods and not another is not wholly explained by it though.

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Not sure why anyone should get compensation, isn't things like this why you get insurance?

 

I would rather my money went to people in the 3rd world who actually need it not to re-carpet the house of some ass-hole who thought it was clever to buy a house next to a river.

 

Actually, my back garden is a bit boggy, I fancy getting it paved - how do I apply for compo?

 

Most insurances have an excess you have to pay, which on house insurance can be thousands. This is what they may get compo for.

 

Disgraceful attitude though for your fellow countrymen, but not a surprise, that's how a lot of this country are now.

Edited by Unbelievable Jeff
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Most insurances have an excess you have to pay, which on house insurance can be thousands. This is what they may get compo for.

 

Disgraceful attitude though for your fellow countrymen, but not a surprise, that's how a lot of this country are now.

 

Most unlikely, unless there has been a history of high risk flooding, Bewdley or Upton on Severn for example. The scale in Somerset has been unprecedented there, so unlikely to be a £1000 or more (unless localised history).

 

Agree with you about the appalling attitude of aintforever, although I'd look at central costs dealing with clear up rather than just compensation for the sake of it. That might start an acceptable precedent. Can you imagine if the River Mersey breached its banks ?

 

That's not to say the excess for flood might not be increased come renewal.

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Joke received yesterday :

 

Farmer & his family have been living in the first floor of their house for three weeks due to the flooding in Somerset.

They see the Red Cross have hired a couple of amphibious landing crafts and as they approach the farmhouse they open the bedroom windows to lean out..

“… thank Christ, at last, are you here to help us ?”

“ no mate, we’re collecting for Syria..”

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If it was benefits street that was flooded and Fat Dee (or whatever her name is) had to wade through raw sewage to get up the offie for her booze and fags, people like aintforever would be demanding government action and compo. When its country folk whose homes have been flooded after a change of policy from the environment agency and EU rules , it appears to be their own fault for living there.

 

Lets keep sending aid to India, whilst they fund a space program and forget about our hard working Brits who deserve our help and support.

 

Typical.

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I can't help thinking that if the rivers were fully dredged and the ditches cleared that there would be lower water levels than now. Rivers 60% silted and I believe a law restricting what can be done to ditches must surely have resulted in higher water levels.

 

The lady that made the remark about blowing up the pumping stations, the same Baroness Young that was head of the RSPB before becoming head of the EA. Small wonder the conservationist view prevailed. As for the lack of money, enough for £32m on a bird sanctuary. For me people come first. Well now its going to cost a damn sight more than it ever would if it had been managed correctly. Give the levels their own drainage authority as per the Norfolk Broads.

 

Incidentally a builder in Moorland built his own defences. Initially stopped until he got permission otherwise would be 2 ft higher. Then needed a permit to bring in 30 ton loads of fill, eight weeks required say the EA. Eventually common sense prevailed and permit was issued (probably the publicity).

 

It's all very well having authorities for all sorts of things but putting failed politicians and place men at the top instead of specialists causes this sort of mess.

 

A few things not right with this I would say.

 

1. Yes dredging would probably have removed a little more water away from the area, but flooding would definitely have occurred still. The additional capacity would do very little given the volumes in question, particularly during high tides (the Parrett at Burrowbridge is tidally influenced). More and more experts are now being heard, and the media are beginning to realise that dredging is very much the band wagon. The Thames is the most managed river in the country, dredged for navigation on a yearly basis... And yet it's flooding.

 

2. The bird sanctuary story is misleading and is just how the local MP describes the managed realignment of sea defences at Steart, at the mouth of the Parrett. Instead of spending public money rebuilding shingle defences again and again and again, as happens elsewhere at great expense, the defences were stepped back from the coast, requiring much less maintenance, to make them affordable for generations to come.

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Most insurances have an excess you have to pay, which on house insurance can be thousands. This is what they may get compo for.

 

Disgraceful attitude though for your fellow countrymen, but not a surprise, that's how a lot of this country are now.

 

A friend of mine had their house flooded over Christmas, it wasn't a nice situation and they have my sympathy.

 

They have received a decent sum from their insurance company, enough to get a pre-existing damp problem sorted out and after getting a mate to do the work they will have some money left over. They accept the fact that a house near a river may flood, payed the relevant insurance and don't expect a government hand out on top.

 

I have had to pay £60 for a tile to be replaced on my house, I'm going to have to pay for a fence post to be re-erected - how much compo should I get off the tax payer?

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Reports that Winchester is close to flooding now

 

Don't worry, the government has said that money is no object but there's no blank cheque. Now that they've stopped blaming others they've resorted to talking gibberish as a means of dealing with the crisis. That should help.

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Yes it is a shame that places are flooded, I know it can happen very quickly but how many folk actually move their belonings upstairs etc?

 

I hear BQ in reading is somewhat flooded. I dont know if its the shop or the car park around it.

 

Dredging may help I dont know but some other factures have also had an impact. I was hearing one lady in berkshire saying that the problem was not the dredging of which ever river she is near to but because previously engineers whoever. diverted or drained land in another area, so that houses could be built on in that particular site, while that area is no loger a flood plane , the water still has to go somewhere. and as we now withness it is flooding areas that were not previously susceptable to floods.

 

So if you divert rivers elsewhere to avoid flooding the surely you are ultimately only moving the problem elsewhere

 

This weather phenomenen is not new , it will happen time and time again

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Lets keep sending aid to India, whilst they fund a space program and forget about our hard working Brits who deserve our help and support.

 

Typical.

 

Don't confuse foreign aid with actually helping people in need.

 

Foreign aid is about political influence.

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Lets not turn yet another genuine issue into a political exercise in 'black or white'.

 

The rain we have had is clearly extraordinary and a lot of people have suffered and will suffer as a result. Yes, some areas are clearly at higher risk than others, but no one predicted this much rain in this short a time period and so we have a fairly unprecedented scenario. For me, the response should simply start with trying to help as many people with genuine needs as possible to protect their homes and properties in the short term. Then, and only then, look at the longer term implications for our policies and planning to mitigate for this more in the future.

 

It's been well documented now that dredging doesn't really help in the long term (or even short and medium when we get this much rainfall), and what is needed (and what the EA have been trying to do for years, but no one really notices until something like this happens) is to put plans in place that provide longer-term, sustainable solutions that are cost-effective.

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Lets not turn yet another genuine issue into a political exercise in 'black or white'.

 

The rain we have had is clearly extraordinary and a lot of people have suffered and will suffer as a result. Yes, some areas are clearly at higher risk than others, but no one predicted this much rain in this short a time period and so we have a fairly unprecedented scenario. For me, the response should simply start with trying to help as many people with genuine needs as possible to protect their homes and properties in the short term. Then, and only then, look at the longer term implications for our policies and planning to mitigate for this more in the future.

 

It's been well documented now that dredging doesn't really help in the long term (or even short and medium when we get this much rainfall), and what is needed (and what the EA have been trying to do for years, but no one really notices until something like this happens) is to put plans in place that provide longer-term, sustainable solutions that are cost-effective.

 

Well said Minty. I did a quick check yesterday and over the last couple of months or so there has been over 30cm of rainfall in the West Country. Trying to hold that back for slow release later is only going to be effective in the short term and once the water table has been elevated there's nowhere for the excess to go.

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It's been well documented now that dredging doesn't really help in the long term (or even short and medium when we get this much rainfall)...

 

Minty, although I’ve been critical of the EA’s decision to stop dredging the rivers serving the Somerset Levels, I’m genuinely interested in all sides of the debate as to the best way forward; therefore, I would be grateful if you could supply details or references for this documentation.

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Once upon a time, when I was a kid living in a village, the fields were smaller, they had hedges and trees and stuff.

Every year we would get held up on the country lanes by diggers or Council workers digging out the ditches at the side of the roads.

Then I moved away but over the years read stuff that made the International news about the EU, Common Agricultural policy and farmers being more efficient and having bigger fields.

I noticed even then some people saying that leaving such huge tracts of land without the hedges and ditches would give problems and run off, but hey, you had years of Drought and nobody listened.

 

I never really noticed it until I went on vacation to France where all the fields are small, they have hedgerows (of course they are inefficient but they are Socialists so the Germans pay for it).

 

Now, I have been away a long time and watch mainly Sky News & CNN but somehow I must have missed these same storms causing such disaster and pain in Brittany? (Yes I saw that Cork had flooded so Ireland clearly has some issues).

 

No idea what the answer is, I live in a Desert without Politics. Just deep down when I fly across Europe on an EasyJet or Ryanair into Stansted or drive around the area south of Salisbury & north of Weymouth/Southampton, I don't see the same patchwork quilt I grew up with.

 

Interestingly, in those days, the only horrific flooding images I ever saw were from other places a long way away.

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Nice to see so many people ignoring my post about the EA whilst looking to slag them off...

 

I'm not saying they're perfect, but unless you actually work there or work closely with them, I think it's a bit unfair for some people to make such judgements.

 

It's to blame a scapegoat rather than accept that a Tory party that many on here voted for are rubbish in a crisis, and some of their misguided budget cuts are going to actually cost the country a small fortune.

 

We are being governed by a load of Tim Nice-But-Dims.

Edited by Wade Garrett
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Minty, although I’ve been critical of the EA’s decision to stop dredging the rivers serving the Somerset Levels, I’m genuinely interested in all sides of the debate as to the best way forward; therefore, I would be grateful if you could supply details or references for this documentation.

 

The basic problem is that water will only flow down hill so when you have land that is below or only slightly above sea level it's difficult to drain. Dredging the river bed will give a temporary respite but you need a gradient all the way to the estuary. Incoming tides deposit silt in the estuary so you have to maintain the dredging to keep this gradient. The Thames estuary is constantly dredged to maintain the shipping channel and there is regular dredging in Southampton Water and The Solent.

 

A solution that has worked in other areas is to slow down the flow of water off the hills by increased tree planting.

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I live in the village of Horton, ironically surrounded on all 3 sides by Wraysbury, Datchet and Colnbrook, all 3 of whom are in serious shyte with their flooding problems. Then there's me, standing outside my front door just now, enjoying the tranquility of a calm, quiet if slightly crisp evening with little more than a puddle in sight.

 

It doesn't seem fair when little more than a mile away each side people are suffering such hardship but I guess that's the luck of the draw. I'll take it. The nearest flood is a 3 minute walk away around the corner from my house, and with things scheduled to get worse with the weather, I can't take anything for granted. But for every second that passes that my house is OK, I'm thankful.

 

I'm doing my good deed act tomorrow, ferrying stranded friends around from affected areas.

 

My family home is in Old Windsor too, so my parents are worried too, but so far they remain dry.

 

Incidentally I was at work earlier (at Heathrow) and an Irish passenger came up to me looking white as a sheet. He told me his plane had tried to land 3 times and had to abort each one because of the wind. I recommended Whiskey. He already had a bottle.

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The basic problem is that water will only flow down hill so when you have land that is below or only slightly above sea level it's difficult to drain. Dredging the river bed will give a temporary respite but you need a gradient all the way to the estuary. Incoming tides deposit silt in the estuary so you have to maintain the dredging to keep this gradient. The Thames estuary is constantly dredged to maintain the shipping channel and there is regular dredging in Southampton Water and The Solent.

 

A solution that has worked in other areas is to slow down the flow of water off the hills by increased tree planting.

 

Cheers ecuk268, I understand that water will not flow uphill unaided, that zero or negative gradients pose problems, and that some rivers are tidal as they approach their estuaries; therefore, I understand that dredging by itself will never be the total solution to an area’s drainage problems, and that sea defences, sluice gates, ditches, pumps etc will also be required. I understand that the planting of trees, reed-beds etc can enhance an area’s drainage capabilities. In addition, I’m aware of evidence that sea-levels are rising, and I understand that, if predictions of continued sea-level rise prove to be correct, then the costs of maintaining low-lying land will rise in accordance.

 

What I still don’t understand is this: IF low-lying areas such as the Somerset Levels, the Fens, New Orleans, Holland etc are to be maintained largely in their present state, how is dredging not PART of the solution, or, as Minty said, ‘doesn’t really help in the long term’?

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It's to blame a scapegoat rather than accept that a Tory party that many on here voted for are rubbish in a crisis, and some of their misguided budget cuts are going to actually cost the country a small fortune.

 

We are being governed by a load of Tim Nice-But-Dims.

 

What an absolute load of arse !! What exactly would the Labour government do to handle the situation any better ?

 

I agree that EA/government possibly should have proactively done more to help this situation but its clearly an issue that hasnt been effectively dealt with for a significant amount of time snd over more then one term of office.

 

The problem is the sheer amount of rainfall, its just unheard of. Even places that dont naturally flood to my mind are at breaking point as the ground, area is completely saturated.

 

How would you expect the government to help right now ?

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Instead of blaming all in sundry just except that occasionally we have no control of weather .

The news regularly refer to thiis is the worse weather since x or for 60 years etc

These things happen . I don't believe it's anything to do with carbon footprints etc just something that happens etc

 

The fields in Orkney are well saturated and under water . We have had sustained high winds up here fior the past 2 months . This is just a normal weather pattern in these parts

 

It makes be laugh when the news reader scare the wits out of you guys about the winds being bad

 

Live up here and you will know what a real gale force wind is

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What I still don’t understand is this: IF low-lying areas such as the Somerset Levels, the Fens, New Orleans, Holland etc are to be maintained largely in their present state, how is dredging not PART of the solution, or, as Minty said, ‘doesn’t really help in the long term’?

 

Apologies, I didn't realise my words were going to be analysed quite so closely... I didn't mean that it would play no part at all, but I was countering the widely held belief by many (e.g. Facebook groups like this: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-the-Floods-Dredge-the-Somerset-Levels/412818108804401) that dredging was 'the answer'. I should've said 'It's been well documented now that dredging ALONE doesn't really help in the long term'.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

Looking beyond the mainstream media, articles like this are common: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25030-dredging-would-not-have-stopped-massive-uk-floods.html

 

And what is needed is more education, like this simple slideshow that explains about the effectiveness of dredging in simple terms: http://www.bidfordonavon-pc.gov.uk/pdfs/notices/dredgingpres.pdf - putting some of that in the newspapers would help educate the masses.

 

You clearly know more about all this than the average person - my concern is with those who either don't want to read for themselves, or who are easily led by those who shout loudest even if they're wrong.

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It makes be laugh when the news reader scare the wits out of you guys about the winds being bad

 

Live up here and you will know what a real gale force wind is

 

But when I bought my mother a bird-table for her birthday, an online reviewer from Orkney said it was so well made and sturdy, not once had it blown over in his garden. Yet, the bloody thing has blown over in my mother’s Isle of Wight garden at least a dozen times this winter! :x

 

 

Apologies, I didn't realise my words were going to be analysed quite so closely... I didn't mean that it would play no part at all, but I was countering the widely held belief by many (e.g. Facebook groups like this: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-the-Floods-Dredge-the-Somerset-Levels/412818108804401) that dredging was 'the answer'. I should've said 'It's been well documented now that dredging ALONE doesn't really help in the long term'.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

Looking beyond the mainstream media, articles like this are common: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25030-dredging-would-not-have-stopped-massive-uk-floods.html

 

And what is needed is more education, like this simple slideshow that explains about the effectiveness of dredging in simple terms: http://www.bidfordonavon-pc.gov.uk/pdfs/notices/dredgingpres.pdf - putting some of that in the newspapers would help educate the masses.

 

You clearly know more about all this than the average person - my concern is with those who either don't want to read for themselves, or who are easily led by those who shout loudest even if they're wrong.

 

Cheers for straightening out my confusion over your original post, Minty. I'll look through those links and get back to you if I have any further comments.

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Now, I have been away a long time and watch mainly Sky News & CNN but somehow I must have missed these same storms causing such disaster and pain in Brittany? (Yes I saw that Cork had flooded so Ireland clearly has some issues).

 

 

 

Interestingly, in those days, the only horrific flooding images I ever saw were from other places a long way away.

 

 

You haven't been paying attention then Phil, they've been up to their asses in floodwater in Morlaix since before Christmas. Finistere takes a battering about once a week at the moment but they're used to it and everything carries on as usual. My lad's car got washed away last week but he's out boating just now so I'll not tell him until he gets back.images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqUZRfuMTdLeYbzBV-G1KZprUUD8YH6TUZuUgKnGPYlh50ifS8

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Minty, those links are interesting in that they explain good reasons for dredging, or not dredging, whilst laying out alternative strategies – thanks for posting them.

 

My comments on this thread have been restricted to the flooding on the Somerset Levels – mainly because it’s an area for which I have some personal knowledge, not to mention, affection.

 

I think it’s important to acknowledge that serious flooding to properties (as opposed to the normal flooding of fields) began on the Levels 5 or 6 weeks ago, i.e. before the January deluge, during which SW England and S Wales received 182% of its average Jan rainfall – Met Office website.

 

The previous month’s rainfall percentages for this region were Dec -141%, Nov -76%, Oct -145%, Sep - 82%, and the annual percentage was 96%. So, whilst this area received less than its average annual rainfall, the 4 month period leading up to the start of the flooding were above average. January’s rainfall has, of course, exasperated the situation.

 

My gripe has always been with the EA’s decision, about 18 years ago, to stop dredging the main rivers on the SL. For me, the question is this: has this decision been responsible, or partly responsible, for the December flooding of properties in this area? I guess we will never really know for certain, but it’s my conviction that it almost definitely hasn’t helped the situation. The EA obviously knew the likely impact of their decision to stop dredging, therefore should they have made this clearer to residents?

 

Now, before anyone starts banging on about the lunacy of building on natural flood plains, let me say that they are pushing against an open door with me – I was dismayed to see on the news that large houses appear to have been recently built on the lower ground of the SL. I’m even more dismayed that the media seems to be focusing on these houses and their residents because in my opinion this detracts from the more pertinent situation of residents living on the higher ground in houses that have never previously flooded.

 

Finally, if governments and their agencies have neither the will nor the money to spend on maintaining low-lying areas such as the SL, then perhaps it’s time to broaden out the discussion, and ask what the future holds for people who have lived and worked in these places for generations.

Edited by Halo Stickman
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Halo

 

Basically unless the bird house was made of steel , wyou would not erect one in your garden . unless you are sourrounded by 8 to 10 feet walls

 

So who ever it was . then they do not know the orkney weather. Last thing I would do was stick out a bird table. during the winter months you have to lash everything down.

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Spot on Halo

 

My sentiments exactly

 

Now, before anyone starts banging on about the lunacy of building on natural flood plains, let me say that they are pushing against an open door with me – I was dismayed to see on the news that large houses appear to have been recently built on the lower ground of the SL. I’m even more dismayed that the media seems to be focusing on these houses and their residents because in my opinion this detracts from the more pertinent situation of residents living on the higher ground in houses that have never previously flooded.

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What an absolute load of arse !! What exactly would the Labour government do to handle the situation any better ?

 

I agree that EA/government possibly should have proactively done more to help this situation but its clearly an issue that hasnt been effectively dealt with for a significant amount of time snd over more then one term of office.

 

The problem is the sheer amount of rainfall, its just unheard of. Even places that dont naturally flood to my mind are at breaking point as the ground, area is completely saturated.

 

How would you expect the government to help right now ?

 

For a start they wouldn't gave cut the EA budget by nearly as much, and I'm pretty sure that anyone but the Tories would have acted sooner with meaningful support and a plan for the flooded areas.

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I don't think now is the right time for political arguments, but the one thing I do know is that the most significant cuts in staffing and budget at the EA have come since around 2007/8. My wife's contract was not extended and since she left, she has remained in contact with many people she knew at the EA. The team she was a part of has been MORE than HALVED in numbers since then. Projects have been shelved, priorities have massively changed so that short-termism prevails, those she knows who still work there have all, to a man, expressed their dismay at the way things have gone.

 

That may well have happened no matter who was in government, and I'm not going to sit here and start blaming the Tories specifically because I'm not confident Labour would've been that different. IMO, ALL the main parties MASSIVELY undervalue the EA and other Government agencies (not to mention the NHS) who need long-term thinking and support - the Govts seem only able to think in 4/5 year chunks, and flood defences and environmental policy as a whole needs to be much longer term than that.

 

It's just another consequence of the short-termism that will, IMO, ruin us in many ways.

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Not sure why anyone is to blame here. No one could have predicted the scale and length of this period of weather.

 

So you think that the cancellation of over 300 flood defence projects since 2010, as a result of the austerity, had NO effect at all?

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Not sure why anyone is to blame here. No one could have predicted the scale and length of this period of weather.

 

Blame doesn't help anything or anyone, I agree. Usually it is the result of people who can't resolve their feelings of anger and frustration, and needing to channel it somewhere, but it is always unhelpful and unproductive.

 

But that's not to say we could and should be better prepared and must learn the lessons from what has happened and put plans in place to deal with such extremes in the future. There is a strong economic case for it too in the medium- to long-term. Any perceived saving from cutting back at the EA (and other places) is soon wiped out by the cost of recovery and relief efforts when events such as this happen.

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Blame doesn't help anything or anyone, I agree. Usually it is the result of people who can't resolve their feelings of anger and frustration, and needing to channel it somewhere, but it is always unhelpful and unproductive.

 

But that's not to say we could and should be better prepared and must learn the lessons from what has happened and put plans in place to deal with such extremes in the future. There is a strong economic case for it too in the medium- to long-term. Any perceived saving from cutting back at the EA (and other places) is soon wiped out by the cost of recovery and relief efforts when events such as this happen.

 

 

And if those channels aren’t regularly dredged, I for one will blame the EA! :x

 

Seriously though, I agree with everything you’ve said there, but, IMO, it was your previous post that hit the nail on the head: short-term governments and long-term strategies rarely make compatible bed-fellows. The residents will be hung out to dry, and anyone hoping to hear sustainable long-term plans as to the best way forward for low-lying areas such as the Somerset levels will be left to whistle in the wind (to mix a metaphor or three).

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