The Kraken Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 Kraken I always thought the. Administrators were a bunch of chancres re SFC lots of spin but no substance . I don't disagree with that in the slightest. Its why Leon Crouch got rinsed for an exclusivity fee to prop up a bunch of chancers who clearly never had the wherewithall to takeover. Its also the same reason why Leon et al, including derry, got taken in by yet more spin convincing them that liquidation was the only viable option. It clearly wasn't, as countless other clubs in administration down the years have shown us. The Liebherr bid was there all along as a safety net for Mark Fry. There were also other serious bids throughout the whole process. How Pinnacle got their foot in the door is a remarkable mystery. But the point remain. Clubs like Saints simply do not go out of business due to such a relatively minimal debt. It hasn't happened before, it wouldn't have happened with us. Something needed to happen of course, and that something happened to be the Liebherr bid. But you will simply never convince me that liquidation would have happened prior to any significant asset stripping and long payment deferral had been introduced, or other emergency measures taken to bring in cash to pay the bills. we hadn't even started selling season tickets to bring in funds; other clubs in the past have done that to get by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 I know what was said, to keep going we needed the club in administration. Administration could not be funded. The man who was paying bills agreed that. Whatever you may think might have happened, that was the situation as seen by the people involved. I believe them. I believe them and you. Just don't think for a nano second we were in any danger of going out of business. We were in admin for only a few weeks and were bought by a billionaire. We were one of the least basket case football administrations there has ever been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 I don't disagree with that in the slightest. Its why Leon Crouch got rinsed for an exclusivity fee to prop up a bunch of chancers who clearly never had the wherewithall to takeover. Its also the same reason why Leon et al, including derry, got taken in by yet more spin convincing them that liquidation was the only viable option. It clearly wasn't, as countless other clubs in administration down the years have shown us. The Liebherr bid was there all along as a safety net for Mark Fry. There were also other serious bids throughout the whole process. How Pinnacle got their foot in the door is a remarkable mystery. But the point remain. Clubs like Saints simply do not go out of business due to such a relatively minimal debt. It hasn't happened before, it wouldn't have happened with us. Something needed to happen of course, and that something happened to be the Liebherr bid. But you will simply never convince me that liquidation would have happened prior to any significant asset stripping and long payment deferral had been introduced, or other emergency measures taken to bring in cash to pay the bills. we hadn't even started selling season tickets to bring in funds; other clubs in the past have done that to get by. What were those serious bids? At the time, it was said that there was only one other to ML/NC. One singular -and frankly after Pinnacle, who's to know how serious it was. And then later on, Fry said that there was an additional one, though he didn't suggest it was serious. Keep drumming away that there was plenty of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 What were those serious bids? At the time, it was said that there was only one other to ML/NC. And then later on, Fry said that there was an additional one, though he didn't suggest it was serious. Keep drumming away that there was plenty of interest. I've already shown you Fry's statement that there were three serious bidders AFTER Pinnacle pulled out. But still you offer nothing of any note to refute that. Nothing at all. Making it up as you go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 I've already shown you Fry's statement that there were three serious bidders AFTER Pinnacle pulled out. But still you offer nothing of any note to refute that. Nothing at all. Making it up as you go along. Three including ML/NC and only one other with whom Fry had serious discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 Three including ML/NC and only one other with whom Fry had serious discussions. Yes, that certainly backs up your original assertion that there was no other interest, doesn't it? Making it up as you go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 So bored of hearing about it now. Wish MLT would just stop and go back to being the legend he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 So bored of hearing about it now. Wish MLT would just stop and go back to being the legend he is. What gets me about MLT (and I have nothing but respect for the guy) is his failure to admit any culpability in his role. Even in his book he phrases it as something like "I was involved with a bid to take over the club, but in the end just couldn't quite make it over the line". That bid was a farce from start to finish especially given what else was on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 Yes, that certainly backs up your original assertion that there was no other interest, doesn't it? Making it up as you go along. No I said throughout that there was one other party whose identity and resources are still unknown. I would dispute that qualifies as plenty of interest. What the facts don't show is that when it came to the crunch there were half a dozen or so suitors as you originally suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 (edited) No I said throughout that there was one other party whose identity and resources are still unknown. I would dispute that qualifies as plenty of interest. What the facts don't show is that when it came to the crunch there were half a dozen or so suitors as you originally suggested. That's not what I said though, was it? I said within a few days of the admin it was reported that there were at least half a dozen expressions of interest. Fry went on to confirm later that there were many more than that, some suitable some not. And as I also said, with the Liebherr bid still on the table as the best potential of any, why the need to redo the whole vetting process, that part was already done and the Liebherrs were in the front seat. anyway this has been lovely but I'm off out. Edited 25 January, 2014 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 To me CB Fry and Kraken don't seem to understand the fact that a company in administration legally can not trade in debt...Basically the day the cash runs out is the day it goes into liquidation......The number of 'interested' parties waiting in the wings or other fund raising options were irrelevant. The money and consequently 'time' had been drained during the Tissier/Pinnical exclusivity period, there was nothing left...Had Marcus not put some cash on the table that week, we would have been Liquidated end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 To me CB Fry and Kraken don't seem to understand the fact that a company in administration legally can not trade in debt...Basically the day the cash runs out is the day it goes into liquidation......The number of 'interested' parties waiting in the wings or other fund raising options were irrelevant. The money and consequently 'time' had been drained during the Tissier/Pinnical exclusivity period, there was nothing left...Had Marcus not put some cash on the table that week, we would have been Liquidated end of. Rubbish. We wouldn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 Rubbish. We wouldn't have.we would have. As for the council buying the stadium, by the time it had gone to committee and voted on,time would have elapsed and Fry would have closed us down. I wish Dubai Phil would add his bit on this as well as Clapham . I think one of the overseas bids actively involved right to the end was Mark Jackson, with money coming from the Middle East....or not. The other bid I assume were the Salz group but I don't think they had the right amount of funds to ever get the club from Fry. The difference between ML and the others was that we were his playing and he could write a cheque and put it on the table,wheras the others had more hurdles to jump before they could put money down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 Also did you go to the fans day where we looking t raise money? All the so called fan interest was not evident then, it was a shameful turnout and it was depressing to see how few people turned up to try and raise money to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 we would have. As for the council buying the stadium, by the time it had gone to committee and voted on,time would have elapsed and Fry would have closed us down. I wish Dubai Phil would add his bit on this as well as Clapham . I think one of the overseas bids actively involved right to the end was Mark Jackson, with money coming from the Middle East....or not. The other bid I assume were the Salz group but I don't think they had the right amount of funds to ever get the club from Fry. The difference between ML and the others was that we were his playing and he could write a cheque and put it on the table,wheras the others had more hurdles to jump before they could put money down. Nope. You have been banging this drum for years and it simply isn't rooted in reality. It's a fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 Also did you go to the fans day where we looking t raise money? All the so called fan interest was not evident then, it was a shameful turnout and it was depressing to see how few people turned up to try and raise money to help. Nope. No one turned up because they knew some silly Mickey mouse effort was ultimately pointless and throwing good money after bad. They were proven right and those who went to the fan day were wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 To me CB Fry and Kraken don't seem to understand the fact that a company in administration legally can not trade in debt...Basically the day the cash runs out is the day it goes into liquidation......The number of 'interested' parties waiting in the wings or other fund raising options were irrelevant. The money and consequently 'time' had been drained during the Tissier/Pinnical exclusivity period, there was nothing left...Had Marcus not put some cash on the table that week, we would have been Liquidated end of. True. But this is a football club we're talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 To me CB Fry and Kraken don't seem to understand the fact that a company in administration legally can not trade in debt...Basically the day the cash runs out is the day it goes into liquidation......The number of 'interested' parties waiting in the wings or other fund raising options were irrelevant. The money and consequently 'time' had been drained during the Tissier/Pinnical exclusivity period, there was nothing left...Had Marcus not put some cash on the table that week, we would have been Liquidated end of. You couldn't be more wrong in one post. it is not illegal to trade in debt, and nor is it illegal to trade whilst insolvent. Many companies have quite rightly continued to trade after the cash has run out, and I suggest you read up on this area (and the Blue Sky defence) before you start typing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 One thing I do know Pinnacle were nothing but a sham and one fact I have recently learned is they tried to tap Liebherr up for a few bob by offering to drop out of contention. Could explain why NC was so anti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 we would have. As for the council buying the stadium, by the time it had gone to committee and voted on,time would have elapsed and Fry would have closed us down. I wish Dubai Phil would add his bit on this as well as Clapham . I think one of the overseas bids actively involved right to the end was Mark Jackson, with money coming from the Middle East....or not. The other bid I assume were the Salz group but I don't think they had the right amount of funds to ever get the club from Fry. The difference between ML and the others was that we were his playing and he could write a cheque and put it on the table,wheras the others had more hurdles to jump before they could put money down. That's just nonsense. Liquidate the football club and the banks would have got next to nothing. The players would all walk away for nothing, St Marys would be worthless. The very worst case scenario would be the club sold for a nominal amount and the banks repossess the ground and rent it back. It would never have made any sense to anyone to liquidate the football club, especially weeks after receiving a firm offer of £15mill+ from a billionaire. Only Fry knows what offers were on the table. In my opinion the Pinnacle thing was just a no lose gamble because he knew he already had Liebherr in the bag and there were others lined up. I expect Pinnacle offered a bit more than Marcus so Fry chanced his arm,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 One thing I do know Pinnacle were nothing but a sham and one fact I have recently learned is they tried to tap Liebherr up for a few bob by offering to drop out of contention. Could explain why NC was so anti. Seriously? Anyway kind of gone a little off topic... I am just a little saddened how so many are in some respects following in Matt's footsteps... Wallowing in the schadenfreude of NCs departure, conveniently forgetting where we came from during his tenure. It's always the case that in football, most fans have double standards at best and completely two faced at worst... Lowe gets any credit for staple wood and SMS diluted to almost nothing .... NCs impact is downgraded to anone could have achieved that with MLs money... Yet in both cases the events happened under their watch.... We are quick to want rid of managers even when they are known to be good, decent and full of potential, with the cliche that it's a results driven business and they are accountable.... Ultimately, LOwe and NC were in charge and good things happened... But are conveniently forgotten by those who do not like em and seemingly can shout the loudest... in the wonderful utopian ideal that some fans seem to live in, all this would have been achieved by lovingly kind and open individuals, that are close to sainthood... I fact would give mother Theresa a run for her money in the speed towards their beatification ... But seriously, does anyone really expect that? Is anyone really that naive that it's easy to find such folk, especially given the type of industry football is and what attracts? I am am not surprised that Matt was a bit daft enough to be taken in by those chancers, I am more surprised though that he can't let the NC thing pass his lips without at least mentioning what has been achieved - money or not, there the NPC is full of clubs who have spent a lot and never made it - ours success was based on a great combination, the chairmanship drive and vision, the money to support it, managers who bought into it and players who believed in it... Matt needs to recognise that if he wants to be taken seriously for anything beyond the genius he displayed on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 Saint George and Old Nick yet again proving they know nothing about anything, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 Cortese not accountable says Matt. Not accountable to him, and a good job too. Why can't MLT just say NC did a brilliant job for the Club, I know Lawrie Mc and a few others lost their freebies but look how the Club rose from the dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 Saint George and Old Nick yet again proving they know nothing about anything, as usual. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 Saint George and Old Nick yet again proving they know nothing about anything, as usual. Laughable stuff, especially from Oldnick who has spent many years grizzling about Pompey's perpetual survival through countless near-death experiences but remains convinced that St Marys would have been boarded up and the club shut down at the first sniff of insolvency. Gawd bless em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 January, 2014 Share Posted 25 January, 2014 Agreed. George's insistence that a company in administration cannot trade in debt is a new blown adventure into utter stupidity, even for him. And that's saying something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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