Cortese wasn't accountable - Le Tissier

[alpine_saint]

EDIT: MLT kept us up for years MARCUS LIEBERR got us up from the bottom to the top, didn't they both do well, our two saviours

 

Totally disingenuous summary.

 

MLT kept us up for years - check

NC got us from the bottom of League 1 to one match away from the very top of the English game (and what would have happened if Lovren had been fit ???) in 4 years

Markus made it happen, but we were still in League 1 when he was sadly taken from us.

[Dig Dig]

Totally disingenuous summary.

 

MLT kept us up for years - check

NC got us from the bottom of League 1 to one match away from the very top of the English game (and what would have happened if Lovren had been fit ???) in 4 years

Markus made it happen, but we were still in League 1 when he was sadly taken from us.

 

Agree, obviously nothing would have happened without his money but it's what you do with it which counts. Yes we spent big in relative terms in League 1, not so much in the Championship but everything we have done has been with a linger term view. NC didn't have to worry about our identity, infrastructure and culture but he did. It has never been as case of chucking money at the project and seeing what stuck.

[DuncanRG]

NC didn't have to worry about our identity, infrastructure and culture but he did. It has never been as case of chucking money at the project and seeing what stuck.

 

Two good sentences.

[derry]

Four years ago the club was a basket case. Crouch was putting in his own money to keep us going. Fry was backing Pinnacle who turned out to be a joke and put us on the brink of liquidation ignoring Markus Liebherr and Cortese. The £500k deposit was borrowed from Crouch and Fialka appearing on tv was the last straw. MLT had been suckered in by Pinnacle and bloody near did for the club in the process. At that time I was at a meeting, present were McMenemy, Crouch and Mary Corbett who said at that moment the Football Club were right out of money. There was not enough even to fund administration and Liquidation of SFC was the next step. At that meeting were MPs and Southampton Councillors who said they could buy SMS to help but the FC would have gone before anything could be done, time had run out.

 

Without Cortese and ML waiting out the Pinnacle farce lent false credibility by the MLT connection, we were gone. I'm not even sure Crouch got any of his £500k back. Cortese's influence saved the FC and his ambition and ML's money got us to the unbelievable position we are today. Only Markus Liebherr's ability to write a cheque immediately saved us.

 

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. MLT was brilliant as a player and the club owe him a debt of gratitude for that. but does anybody really think the Pinnacle bid would have wasted so much time if his name wasn't part of it.

 

I thought Cortese was an arrogant ***** but for all that he did a marvellous job as far as results go and I think that's his legacy and MLT should leave it there.

[shurlock]

Four years ago the club was a basket case. Crouch was putting in his own money to keep us going. Fry was backing Pinnacle who turned out to be a joke and put us on the brink of liquidation ignoring Markus Liebherr and Cortese. The £500k deposit was borrowed from Crouch and Fialka appearing on tv was the last straw. MLT had been suckered in by Pinnacle and bloody near did for the club in the process. At that time I was at a meeting, present were McMenemy, Crouch and Mary Corbett who said at that moment the Football Club were right out of money. There was not enough even to fund administration and Liquidation of SFC was the next step. At that meeting were MPs and Southampton Councillors who said they could buy SMS to help but the FC would have gone before anything could be done, time had run out.

 

Without Cortese and ML waiting out the Pinnacle farce lent false credibility by the MLT connection, we were gone. I'm not even sure Crouch got any of his £500k back. Cortese's influence saved the FC and his ambition and ML's money got us to the unbelievable position we are today. Only Markus Liebherr's ability to write a cheque immediately saved us.

 

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. MLT was brilliant as a player and the club owe him a debt of gratitude for that. but does anybody really think the Pinnacle bid would have wasted so much time if his name wasn't part of it.

 

I thought Cortese was an arrogant ***** but for all that he did a marvellous job as far as results go and I think that's his legacy and MLT should leave it there.

 

Excellent post

[Dig Dig]

Four years ago the club was a basket case. Crouch was putting in his own money to keep us going. Fry was backing Pinnacle who turned out to be a joke and put us on the brink of liquidation ignoring Markus Liebherr and Cortese. The £500k deposit was borrowed from Crouch and Fialka appearing on tv was the last straw. MLT had been suckered in by Pinnacle and bloody near did for the club in the process. At that time I was at a meeting, present were McMenemy, Crouch and Mary Corbett who said at that moment the Football Club were right out of money. There was not enough even to fund administration and Liquidation of SFC was the next step. At that meeting were MPs and Southampton Councillors who said they could buy SMS to help but the FC would have gone before anything could be done, time had run out.

 

Without Cortese and ML waiting out the Pinnacle farce lent false credibility by the MLT connection, we were gone. I'm not even sure Crouch got any of his £500k back. Cortese's influence saved the FC and his ambition and ML's money got us to the unbelievable position we are today. Only Markus Liebherr's ability to write a cheque immediately saved us.

 

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. MLT was brilliant as a player and the club owe him a debt of gratitude for that. but does anybody really think the Pinnacle bid would have wasted so much time if his name wasn't part of it.

 

I thought Cortese was an arrogant ***** but for all that he did a marvellous job as far as results go and I think that's his legacy and MLT should leave it there.

 

Top post

[alpine_saint]

Four years ago the club was a basket case. Crouch was putting in his own money to keep us going. Fry was backing Pinnacle who turned out to be a joke and put us on the brink of liquidation ignoring Markus Liebherr and Cortese. The £500k deposit was borrowed from Crouch and Fialka appearing on tv was the last straw. MLT had been suckered in by Pinnacle and bloody near did for the club in the process. At that time I was at a meeting, present were McMenemy, Crouch and Mary Corbett who said at that moment the Football Club were right out of money. There was not enough even to fund administration and Liquidation of SFC was the next step. At that meeting were MPs and Southampton Councillors who said they could buy SMS to help but the FC would have gone before anything could be done, time had run out.

 

Without Cortese and ML waiting out the Pinnacle farce lent false credibility by the MLT connection, we were gone. I'm not even sure Crouch got any of his £500k back. Cortese's influence saved the FC and his ambition and ML's money got us to the unbelievable position we are today. Only Markus Liebherr's ability to write a cheque immediately saved us.

 

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. MLT was brilliant as a player and the club owe him a debt of gratitude for that. but does anybody really think the Pinnacle bid would have wasted so much time if his name wasn't part of it.

 

I thought Cortese was an arrogant ***** but for all that he did a marvellous job as far as results go and I think that's his legacy and MLT should leave it there.

 

Usual high quality contribution from you.

[aintforever]

Four years ago the club was a basket case. Crouch was putting in his own money to keep us going. Fry was backing Pinnacle who turned out to be a joke and put us on the brink of liquidation ignoring Markus Liebherr and Cortese.

 

It would be interesting to hear from Fry as to why he ignored the Leibherr's offer to buy the club in the first place. How could he possibly think Fialka would be a better prospect than one of Europe's richest families?

[Dig Dig]

It would be interesting to hear from Fry as to why he ignored the Leibherr's offer to buy the club in the first place. How could he possibly think Fialka would be a better prospect than one of Europe's richest families?

 

Caught up in the hype and populist view of a MLT lead takeover. Probably.

[Smirking_Saint]

It would be interesting to hear from Fry as to why he ignored the Leibherr's offer to buy the club in the first place. How could he possibly think Fialka would be a better prospect than one of Europe's richest families?

 

To an administrator I assume it was down to the Pinnacle bid showing real and definate intent and probably a lot of posturing towards proof that they had the money to pay for what they wanted. Was it crouches money that secured them the 2 week period ?

[aintforever]

Caught up in the hype and populist view of a MLT lead takeover. Probably.

 

Seriously? I'm Le Tiss' biggest fan but given the option of his Fialka's bid and a multi billionaire it wouldn't even be a choice. I'm not sure why an administrator would choose them.

 

I wonder if Fry told Crouch about Leibherr's interest before he got him to chuck a few hundred grand of his own cash in the bucket?

 

It appears to me that the future of the club was never ever in doubt and Fry just conned Crouch out of his money because he knew he had billionaires to fall back on if it collapsed.

[OldNick]

Four years ago the club was a basket case. Crouch was putting in his own money to keep us going. Fry was backing Pinnacle who turned out to be a joke and put us on the brink of liquidation ignoring Markus Liebherr and Cortese. The £500k deposit was borrowed from Crouch and Fialka appearing on tv was the last straw. MLT had been suckered in by Pinnacle and bloody near did for the club in the process. At that time I was at a meeting, present were McMenemy, Crouch and Mary Corbett who said at that moment the Football Club were right out of money. There was not enough even to fund administration and Liquidation of SFC was the next step. At that meeting were MPs and Southampton Councillors who said they could buy SMS to help but the FC would have gone before anything could be done, time had run out.

 

Without Cortese and ML waiting out the Pinnacle farce lent false credibility by the MLT connection, we were gone. I'm not even sure Crouch got any of his £500k back. Cortese's influence saved the FC and his ambition and ML's money got us to the unbelievable position we are today. Only Markus Liebherr's ability to write a cheque immediately saved us.

 

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. MLT was brilliant as a player and the club owe him a debt of gratitude for that. but does anybody really think the Pinnacle bid would have wasted so much time if his name wasn't part of it.

 

I thought Cortese was an arrogant ***** but for all that he did a marvellous job as far as results go and I think that's his legacy and MLT should leave it there.

superb post of truth. So many still think that the club would have been saved if ML had not been there. Total madness. MLT probably the best player I have seen play for Saints, although he would be a fraction behind Big Ron and Mick Channon as my real favourite. i suspect that is because they were my boyhood heroes

[Bearsy]

Letissier seems to have changed his tune on this cos i spoke to him while back and he definitely said Cortese was account

[derry]

Seriously? I'm Le Tiss' biggest fan but given the option of his Fialka's bid and a multi billionaire it wouldn't even be a choice. I'm not sure why an administrator would choose them.

 

I wonder if Fry told Crouch about Leibherr's interest before he got him to chuck a few hundred grand of his own cash in the bucket?

 

It appears to me that the future of the club was never ever in doubt and Fry just conned Crouch out of his money because he knew he had billionaires to fall back on if it collapsed.

 

The money for exclusivity was loaned to Pinnacle. SFC was on the point of liquidation when Pinnacle collapsed. If ML had not followed through or gone somewhere else the club was going to be liquidated within days. Crouch knew the precise situation at the club and didn't disagree with Mary Corbett's statement. I think he was misled by the grandiose claims by Pinnacle and desperately wanted to be involved in SFC so I believe loaned the money that kept the bid from collapsing earlier. I knew at that time about the blue chip Swiss company but not who it was. The person who told me is a friend of MLT and couldn't understand why Pinnacle were continuing despite having no money. At that time it was thought that the Swiss had walked away after Pinnacle had been awarded Exclusivity.

[ottery st mary]

Four years ago the club was a basket case. Crouch was putting in his own money to keep us going. Fry was backing Pinnacle who turned out to be a joke and put us on the brink of liquidation ignoring Markus Liebherr and Cortese. The £500k deposit was borrowed from Crouch and Fialka appearing on tv was the last straw. MLT had been suckered in by Pinnacle and bloody near did for the club in the process. At that time I was at a meeting, present were McMenemy, Crouch and Mary Corbett who said at that moment the Football Club were right out of money. There was not enough even to fund administration and Liquidation of SFC was the next step. At that meeting were MPs and Southampton Councillors who said they could buy SMS to help but the FC would have gone before anything could be done, time had run out.

 

Without Cortese and ML waiting out the Pinnacle farce lent false credibility by the MLT connection, we were gone. I'm not even sure Crouch got any of his £500k back. Cortese's influence saved the FC and his ambition and ML's money got us to the unbelievable position we are today. Only Markus Liebherr's ability to write a cheque immediately saved us.

 

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. MLT was brilliant as a player and the club owe him a debt of gratitude for that. but does anybody really think the Pinnacle bid would have wasted so much time if his name wasn't part of it.

 

I thought Cortese was an arrogant ***** but for all that he did a marvellous job as far as results go and I think that's his legacy and MLT should leave it there.

 

 

Excellent Post..totally agree.

 

Big fan of MLT...

 

He meant well but thank God for NC and God bless Mr Liebherr.....and thank you Ms Liebherr.

[trousers]

And to think Fry picked up an industry award for the SFC/SLH administration...

[trousers]

It would be interesting to hear from Fry as to why he ignored the Leibherr's offer to buy the club in the first place.

I'd also be interested in hearing the other Mr Fry's story too...

[aintforever]

The money for exclusivity was loaned to Pinnacle. SFC was on the point of liquidation when Pinnacle collapsed. If ML had not followed through or gone somewhere else the club was going to be liquidated within days.

 

How do you know there were not other potential buyers lined up? If someone of Liebherr's calibre describes the purchase as "the deal of the century" there must have been other people willing to put an offer in. When you look at the lot down the road I can't believe for one minute we were anywhere near liquidation.

 

I expect Fry fed Crouch n co a bunch of porkies just to get his hands on their cash.

[Window Cleaner]

How do you know there were not other potential buyers lined up? If someone of Liebherr's calibre describes the purchase as "the deal of the century" there must have been other people willing to put an offer in. When you look at the lot down the road I can't believe for one minute we were anywhere near liquidation.

 

I expect Fry fed Crouch n co a bunch of porkies just to get his hands on their cash.

 

Poor old Leon, paid a fortune for his shares when the Wilde thing was going on, far more than most people and then he got ripped off by a band of no hopers for another 500000£ All in all Saints must have cost him at least 3 million and he never really got full control of the train set. Still you know what they say about fools and their money.

[um pahars]

1) no one has confirmed or denied that he did resign 3 months ago

 

2) even if he did hand his notice in, I would imagine he had a 6 or even 12 months notice period, so his recent departure may still have been premature & somewhat unexpected.

 

3) I would imagine any replacement of a similar calibre is already in employment and therefore any appointment would have similar issues relating to notice periods, gardening leaves and protracted start dates. I certainly remember a delay when Kenyon moved from United to Chelsea.

 

4) an interim CEO from within is not overly desireable, but in circumstances like these somewhat inevitable.

[um pahars]

Sorry, should have made clear above reply was to SaintRichmond (& Saint86) about counter opinion to interim appointment on page 1

[Breeny]

Look I'm going to say this for one last time. Markus Liebherr and his heirs have had nothing to do wth the main Liebherr enterprises for many many years. KL seems to have worked with her father's companies in some way or other although for 3 years up until last fall she seemed to be on sabbatical and Cortese ran them all with one other person, presumably from his desk at SMS. The said companies have all been liquidated bar 1, a sort of brokerage affair registered in Zurich.

 

Sorry , you don't know what your talking about. I've recently been in business meetings regarding supplying Liebherr cranes

with tyres

 

I can assure you not one but two of the Liebherr family are very actively involved !

[OldNick]

I'd also be interested in hearing the other Mr Fry's story too...

Nobody else has picked up on that Trousers!yes it would be interesting to. Hear his part of the story?imsure he would never tell his part in the episode

[Window Cleaner]

Sorry , you don't know what your talking about. I've recently been in business meetings regarding supplying Liebherr cranes

with tyres

 

I can assure you not one but two of the Liebherr family are very actively involved !

 

I fail to see what you're saying here actually, are you saying that elements of the Isolde+Willie branch are in fact assisting

 

Katarina in her endeavours with SFC or are you just totally confused about who is and who does what in the Liebherr and Mali enterprises.

 

Markus Liebherr had nothing to do with the Cranes,Freezers, Plant Machinery side of the business...nothing whatsoever.

Edited 25 January, 2014 by Window Cleaner

[derry]

How do you know there were not other potential buyers lined up? If someone of Liebherr's calibre describes the purchase as "the deal of the century" there must have been other people willing to put an offer in. When you look at the lot down the road I can't believe for one minute we were anywhere near liquidation.

 

I expect Fry fed Crouch n co a bunch of porkies just to get his hands on their cash.

 

There were no other buyers, that is why there was the meeting. Nobody had the money to save the club in the time left before liquidation. Markus Liebherr was the only other option to Pinnacle which at that time was known to have no money. The club was going to be liquidated. If ML had needed finance the club was gone. It was because he had his own money and could act immediately that liquidation was avoided.

 

What is incredible is that ML was ready to pay the Exclusivity fee but Fry chose Pinnacle who couldn't raise the money for the purchase or the deposit, who then proceeded to use up the valuable time that left the club on the brink.

 

If Cortese had as we know now acted in character he would have walked away. I think it was Markus Liebherr, God bless him, who liked what he saw and waited.

[CB Fry]

We wouldn't have been liquidated. The fact that Derry is saying the council would have bought SMS shows we would have never folded as a club.

 

And the fact a billionaire snapped us up as "deal of the century" shows we were quite a catch.

 

It's a lovely exciting little story, but there have been countless clubs whose "death deadline" has been extended and extended and extended and extended. Which would have obviously happened to us, especially with the infrastructure and potential we had sat there.

[The Kraken]

We wouldn't have been liquidated. The fact that Derry is saying the council would have bought SMS shows we would have never folded as a club.

 

And the fact a billionaire snapped us up as "deal of the century" shows we were quite a catch.

 

It's a lovely exciting little story, but there have been countless clubs whose "death deadline" has been extended and extended and extended and extended. Which would have obviously happened to us, especially with the infrastructure and potential we had sat there.

Quite right. The Liebherr bid was there to take over because that's where Mark Fry had positioned them. There had already been a long vetting process of many interested parties; we all know it is madness that the Pinnacle bid came out on top, but there were other bids in behind that. The Liebherr bid was the first one up, and therefore Fry didn't have to search anywhere else for a lifeline, it was right there.

 

Add to the fact that we had already sold a few players to keep the accounts topped up yet still had saleable assets such as Lallana and Schneiderlin on the books. There may have been talk of needing a sale to go through extra quick after all of Fry's catastrophic efforts, no doubt about that, but liquidation was never a realistic proposition, there were just far too many assets and too much public interest for it to have happened. The players were still getting fully paid, there were no wage deferrals, no companies losing millions of unpaid sums. Those lot down the road show just how far into the mire you can go without a football club of any notable size folding.

[Window Cleaner]

Quite right. The Liebherr bid was there to take over because that's where Mark Fry had positioned them. There had already been a long vetting process of many interested parties; we all know it is madness that the Pinnacle bid came out on top, but there were other bids in behind that. The Liebherr bid was the first one up, and therefore Fry didn't have to search anywhere else for a lifeline, it was right there.

 

Add to the fact that we had already sold a few players to keep the accounts topped up yet still had saleable assets such as Lallana and Schneiderlin on the books. There may have been talk of needing a sale to go through extra quick after all of Fry's catastrophic efforts, no doubt about that, but liquidation was never a realistic proposition, there were just far too many assets and too much public interest for it to have happened. The players were still getting fully paid, there were no wage deferrals, no companies losing millions of unpaid sums. Those lot down the road show just how far into the mire you can go without a football club of any notable size folding.

 

Don't disagree with any of that except that the players were paid late actually, it was well documented and has been confirmed by players in their reminiscences of that period.

[The Kraken]

Don't disagree with any of that except that the players were paid late actually, it was well documented and has been confirmed by players in their reminiscences of that period.

Fair enough; I'd understood that the sale of Surman, Dyer and McGoldrick (plus Crouch's generosity) had meant that there wasn't any significant delay, though. That and the fans dipping into their own pockets for the numerous bucket collections, of course.

[shurlock]

Apart from Rod Stewart, Jim Radcliffe and Richard Branson, I can't remember too many people wanting to buy us

[The Kraken]

Apart from Rod Stewart, Jim Radcliffe and Richard Branson, I can't remember too many people wanting to buy us

Then you clearly have a poor memory. It was revealed in early April that there were half a dozen parties that had put forward expressions of interest. This was reported in the Times, amongst others. To suggest there were no other interested parties is more than slightly dumb. In addition, after the Pinnacle bid fizzled out;

"Salvation for a club that played in the Premier League as recently as 2005 is now likely to come from overseas. Fry has hinted that the business could be wound up as early as the end of this week if a buyer cannot be found, but two consortiums from abroad are said to remain interested, and Fry said today that he remains hopeful that a sale "will be completed within a very short period of time."

[Window Cleaner]

Then you clearly have a poor memory. It was revealed in early April that there were half a dozen parties that had put forward expressions of interest. This was reported in the Times, amongst others. To suggest there were no other interested parties is more than slightly dumb.

 

 

In fact, that Fry managed to get a 500000 £ non refundable deposit from one mug with no evident backing when he already had a firm offer from another serious buyer who did have the money is probably why he got a trade award for his handling of the affair.

[shurlock]

Then you clearly have a poor memory. It was revealed in early April that there were half a dozen parties that had put forward expressions of interest. This was reported in the Times, amongst others. To suggest there were no other interested parties is more than slightly dumb.

 

April? The equivalent of the opening round of Xfactor where thousands of talentless chancers and m**gs queue up around the block to be told they're s**t. Ok.

 

There's a simple reason why extension after extension after extension was given to Pinnacle -and that's not because we had loads of suitors.

[The Kraken]

April? The equivalent of the opening round of Xfactor where thousands of talentless chancers and m**gs queue up around the block to be told they're s**t. Ok.

 

There's a simple reason why extension after extension after extension was given to Pinnacle.

Right. Why did Mark Fry come out with this too then?

"It has previously been stated that the Administrators were not prepared to extend the period of exclusivity that had been granted to the Pinnacle Group and that had expired on 19 June 2009."

 

"Immediately following the expiry of the exclusivity period, the Administrators re-engaged in discussions with other parties that had previously expressed serious interest. We remain hopeful that a sale of the Football Club will be completed within a very short period of time."

But no, you're probably right and Fry was lying. There was no-one else interested in buying the club. No-one.

[shurlock]

Right. Why did Mark Fry come out with this too then?

"It has previously been stated that the Administrators were not prepared to extend the period of exclusivity that had been granted to the Pinnacle Group and that had expired on 19 June 2009."

 

"Immediately following the expiry of the exclusivity period, the Administrators re-engaged in discussions with other parties that had previously expressed serious interest. We remain hopeful that a sale of the Football Club will be completed within a very short period of time."

But no, you're probably right and fry was lying. There was no-one else interested in buying the club. No-one.

 

And yet he continued to flog a dead horse until even the horse told him not to bother anymore.

 

If there were other options -Richard Williams Gillico IIRC- they were not very credible.

[The Kraken]

And yet he continued to flog a dead horse until even the horse told him not to bother anymore.

 

If there were other options -Richard Williams Gillico IIRC- they were not very credible.

"Continued to flog a dead horse"? Pinnacle paid for a period of exclusivity. They got that, it was for a fixed term, when that term ended and they hadn't completed the bid moved on to someone else. Are you sure you know what actually happened here? Your opinions on this matter seem either completely contradictory to the facts or entirely based in assumption.

[Window Cleaner]

"Continued to flog a dead horse"? Pinnacle paid for a period of exclusivity. They got that, it was for a fixed term, when that term ended and they hadn't completed the bid moved on to someone else. Are you sure you know what actually happened here? Your opinions on this matter seem either completely contradictory to the facts or entirely based in assumption.

 

 

Plus we sold 3 players in June of 2009 for a total of about 2.6 million although I don't doubt that the Football league docked us a fair bit because of debts to other clubs and player salaries overdue. I just can't see that the club was as desperate as some like to make out and Begbies just milked the fact that everyone seemed to think we had two feet in the grave already. Never did get the final report that I thought all shareholders were supposed to get, anyone else receive it?

[CB Fry]

Strawlock playing another blinder, I see.

[shurlock]

"Continued to flog a dead horse"? Pinnacle paid for a period of exclusivity. They got that, it was for a fixed term, when that term ended and they hadn't completed the bid moved on to someone else. Are you sure you know what actually happened here? Your opinions on this matter seem either completely contradictory to the facts or entirely based in assumption.

 

Even after the exclusivity ended, Pinnacle continued to be Fry's preferred choice right until the death.

 

The tyre-kicker Lynam later admitted on here that he only knew of two other bids -ML/NC and one other. Perhaps the 'other' would have saved us bacon, perhaps not but tenuous stuff nonetheless and a far cry from suggesting that at the height of the global financial crisis, we were never in any danger.

[The Kraken]

Even after the exclusivity ended, Pinnacle continued to be Fry's preferred choice right until the death.

 

Where are you getting this from? Seriously? Is it personal opinion? Something you know?

 

From Mark Fry's own words:

 

[Fry declined to extend Pinnacle's period of exclusivity, allowing other suitors to come forward.]

 

"There are two other parties that have expressed an interest in the purchase of the club and I have spent last week in discussions with those parties.

"On Thursday I met with the representatives of a bid that is coming from abroad and who have the funds available to complete a takeover.

"I am expecting to hear back from them early next week as to whether they would like to push ahead and complete the purchase of the club.

"There will not be any further "exclusivity period" available to potential purchasers due to the tight deadlines we are working to.

"If towards the end of next week we are in a situation where no bids are forthcoming, I will meet with the directors to discuss options."

 

The tyre-kicker Lynam later admitted on here that he only knew of two other bids -ML/NC and one other. Perhaps the 'other' would have saved us bacon, perhaps not but tenuous stuff nonetheless and a far cry from suggesting that at the height of the global financial crisis, we were never in any danger.

Again, you seem to only be using assumptions to baseline your opinions and bypassing the facts. "Perhaps". And no-one has said we were never in any danger, simply that it is very unlikely we would have gone out of business. I'm not even sure if fry himself made the statement that club would be wound up, though it was certainly attributed to him. As above his line was "If towards the end of next week we are in a situation where no bids are forthcoming, I will meet with the directors to discuss options."

[derry]

If Mary Corbett along with Crouch and McMenemy felt that we were going to be liquidated as there was no money to allow administration then that was the situation. The Councillors said that they could buy the Stadium fairly quickly but as the time had run out the football club couldn't be saved whatever happened to SMS subsequently. Unless somebody came up with a cash bid. The Liebherr cash on the nail bid was the only way the club could have been saved. There just wasn't any time left or any other serious bid that could complete. Tyre kickers all, there was only ever one bidder with the means to buy Saints.

[The Kraken]

If Mary Corbett along with Crouch and McMenemy felt that we were going to be liquidated as there was no money to allow administration then that was the situation. The Councillors said that they could buy the Stadium fairly quickly but as the time had run out the football club couldn't be saved whatever happened to SMS subsequently. Unless somebody came up with a cash bid. The Liebherr cash on the nail bid was the only way the club could have been saved. There just wasn't any time left or any other serious bid that could complete. Tyre kickers all, there was only ever one bidder with the means to buy Saints.

Again, at odds with what the administrator said at the time, and in an interview with the Echo afterwards.

 

Q. How many parties did you believe could seriously enter into an exclusivity period?

MF: There was about three at that time.

 

Q. How many serious parties were left after Pinnacle failed?

MF: There were three parties at that time and we were in serious discussion with two of them, but the Swiss were the ones that were ahead.

[aintforever]

If Mary Corbett along with Crouch and McMenemy felt that we were going to be liquidated as there was no money to allow administration then that was the situation. The Councillors said that they could buy the Stadium fairly quickly but as the time had run out the football club couldn't be saved whatever happened to SMS subsequently. Unless somebody came up with a cash bid. The Liebherr cash on the nail bid was the only way the club could have been saved. There just wasn't any time left or any other serious bid that could complete. Tyre kickers all, there was only ever one bidder with the means to buy Saints.

 

I have no doubt Corbett, Crouch and McMenemy were led to believe we would fold, that's how Fry got his hands on Crouch's cash.

 

History shows that asset rich, Premier League standard clubs don't get liquidated for the sort of debts we had. Not in a million years. You just have to look at the basket case down the road to know that.

[shurlock]

Where are you getting this from? Seriously? Is it personal opinion? Something you know?

 

From Mark Fry's own words:

 

[Fry declined to extend Pinnacle's period of exclusivity, allowing other suitors to come forward.]

 

"There are two other parties that have expressed an interest in the purchase of the club and I have spent last week in discussions with those parties.

"On Thursday I met with the representatives of a bid that is coming from abroad and who have the funds available to complete a takeover.

"I am expecting to hear back from them early next week as to whether they would like to push ahead and complete the purchase of the club.

"There will not be any further "exclusivity period" available to potential purchasers due to the tight deadlines we are working to.

"If towards the end of next week we are in a situation where no bids are forthcoming, I will meet with the directors to discuss options."

 

 

Again, you seem to only be using assumptions to baseline your opinions and bypassing the facts. "Perhaps". And no-one has said we were never in any danger, simply that it is very unlikely we would have gone out of business. I'm not even sure if fry himself made the statement that club would be wound up, though it was certainly attributed to him. As above his line was "If towards the end of next week we are in a situation where no bids are forthcoming, I will meet with the directors to discuss options."

 

Am losing sight of your point am afraid.

 

The issue is whether we would have been liquidated if NC/ML hadn't stepped in.

 

All we know is that there were three bids -Pinnacle whose credibility had been questioned before it was given exclusivity, doubts vindicated by events, ML/NC and one other. That's it.

 

Drawing on statements made in April, suggesting that there was plenty of interest in the club is misleading and flawed. While I don't attribute the opinion to you, there are others who still like to think we were an attractive investment and somehow, someone would have saved us. The details get foggier at that point, except to say that we weren't in July.

 

I agree with you and precedent shows that clubs can find short-term fudges and the authorities are quite happy to kick the can down the road. Once public interest arguments get entangled, football clubs are like the walking dead.

 

Either way, the point of Derry's original post was to put the importance of ML/NC's purchase in context. I like to believe that we would have got a reprieve, though that ultimately doesn't diminish their role. Structural decline or a slow death isn't much better. And that was the alternative in the best case scenario.

Edited 25 January, 2014 by shurlock

[derry]

Again, at odds with what the administrator said at the time, and in an interview with the Echo afterwards.

 

Q. How many parties did you believe could seriously enter into an exclusivity period?

MF: There was about three at that time.

 

Q. How many serious parties were left after Pinnacle failed?

MF: There were three parties at that time and we were in serious discussion with two of them, but the Swiss were the ones that were ahead.

 

I don't care what was published. At the meeting the position was spelt out. The club was broke, out of time and unless an immediate purchase was completed they would be liquidated as administration could not be funded. In the event ML provided the funds. The meeting was to explore ways of saving the club but it was obvious to all present that an immediate completion was the only way. That is what happened. Fry's proposed meeting with the directors if no sale, would have meant liquidation at that point.

 

All the he said this or that is irrelevant as by the time of the meeting it was all over unless the money was provided immediately, luckily it was. It was a shocking stark reality. Fry was lucky, he made a stupid call backing Pinnacle. Liebherr was a no brainer not even in hindsight.

[CB Fry]

If Mary Corbett along with Crouch and McMenemy felt that we were going to be liquidated as there was no money to allow administration then that was the situation. The Councillors said that they could buy the Stadium fairly quickly but as the time had run out the football club couldn't be saved whatever happened to SMS subsequently. Unless somebody came up with a cash bid. The Liebherr cash on the nail bid was the only way the club could have been saved. There just wasn't any time left or any other serious bid that could complete. Tyre kickers all, there was only ever one bidder with the means to buy Saints.

 

If the council said they'd take the ground on, making up a signifucant part of the debt, then the "time" would be found to save the club.

 

The conversation you heard has happened at clubs up and down the land. Over and over again. And they all plod on.

[The Kraken]

I don't care what was published. At the meeting the position was spelt out. The club was broke, out of time and unless an immediate purchase was completed they would be liquidated as administration could not be funded. In the event ML provided the funds. The meeting was to explore ways of saving the club but it was obvious to all present that an immediate completion was the only way. That is what happened. Fry's proposed meeting with the directors if no sale, would have meant liquidation at that point.

 

All the he said this or that is irrelevant as by the time of the meeting it was all over unless the money was provided immediately, luckily it was. It was a shocking stark reality. Fry was lucky, he made a stupid call backing Pinnacle. Liebherr was a no brainer not even in hindsight.

And the point you're missing is that there was money available from more than one source. It's not irrelevant, it is fact. Fry did a poor job in leading us so far along that road, but there were still options before liquidation, its clear to see. There were still players who were sellable assets. There were other assets that could have been sold off quickly. Most of the playing staff could have been cleared out for a pittance if needs be to reduce the wage bill.. Wage deferrals could have been introduced. All sorts of other sources of immediate income and recovery sought, as has been done at other clubs up and down the land before liquidation strikes home.

 

Clubs of our size simply don't go into liquidation for that type of money. Especially so since there was evidence that we'd had actually clawed back the debt in the past year. It simply doesn't happen. As CBF says, that boardroom heard the same doom and gloom predictions from an administrator that is trotted out in every single administration.

 

And as Mark Fry said, there were other parties to the Liebherr's at the time. The Liebherr's were clearly just the standout candidate. That Mark Fry didn't originally realise that is the utter tragedy in the whole sorry saga.

Edited 25 January, 2014 by The Kraken

[derry]

If the council said they'd take the ground on, making up a signifucant part of the debt, then the "time" would be found to save the club.

 

The conversation you heard has happened at clubs up and down the land. Over and over again. And they all plod on.

 

I know what was said, to keep going we needed the club in administration. Administration could not be funded. The man who was paying bills agreed that. Whatever you may think might have happened, that was the situation as seen by the people involved. I believe them.

[Viking Warrior]

Kraken

 

I always thought the. Administrators were a bunch of chancres re SFC lots of spin but no substance . I tend to agree with derry more than you on the points that have been made. The biggest problem that the likes of sisa and co may have been influencing certain decision making process at club notable the anyone but Lowe brigade and no real forward thinking strategy was being put forward. Did MLT have an issue with Lowe and co at the time .

 

Dave jones certainly did not see eye to eye with Matt

[Window Cleaner]

Kraken

 

I always thought the. Administrators were a bunch of chancres re SFC lots of spin but no substance . I tend to agree with derry more than you on the points that have been made. The biggest problem that the likes of sisa and co may have been influencing certain decision making process at club notable the anyone but Lowe brigade and no real forward thinking strategy was being put forward. Did MLT have an issue with Lowe and co at the time .

 

Dave jones certainly did not see eye to eye with Matt

 

Personally I am always fairly sceptical of anything involving Leon Crouch, he seems so gullible although I'm sure that many will argue that not to be the case. The method seems to be "if you want to get a message across tell Leon Crouch" I mean "it is Paul Allen" really ??? Paying twice as much per share as Mike Wilde really ?