KelvinsRightGlove Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 See that's just not true. Being nice and friendly does not automatically make you a soft touch. You talk like a sociopath yourself... Oh lord here we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Oh lord here we go Not sure why that's so outlandish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 That's your opinion, which is fine and fair enough, but it is utter speculation. People don't get to run billion $ companies by playing the nice guy. True I'm probably speculating, but I imagine she will have picked up something from her dad and family, who were successful business people and will have been ruthless and probably shafted people at times. I'd take everything FF says with a pinch of salt. He clearly has his own axe to grind. I'm not bothered about Saints being nice or friendly. Just means we are a soft touch, I want us to be disliked. I don't want someone at the helm that will act solely with the clubs interest at heart. If that means ****ing off contractors, agents, media, other clubs etc etc so be it. I don't see the clubs history as something for the CEO to worry about, I want them tone worried about making history. But you are not going to maximise revenue by alienating supporters and local businesses, fighting with the media instead of utilising it and discarding the club's history instead of using it to enhance the brand. Many of Corteses' petty actions flied in the face of the professionalism you say is so important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 That's your opinion, which is fine and fair enough, but it is utter speculation. People don't get to run billion $ companies by playing the nice guy. True I'm probably speculating, but I imagine she will have picked up something from her dad and family, who were successful business people and will have been ruthless and probably shafted people at times. I'd take everything FF says with a pinch of salt. He clearly has his own axe to grind. I'm not bothered about Saints being nice or friendly. Just means we are a soft touch, I want us to be disliked. I don't want someone at the helm that will act solely with the clubs interest at heart. If that means ****ing off contractors, agents, media, other clubs etc etc so be it. I don't see the clubs history as something for the CEO to worry about, I want them tone worried about making history. You come across as extremely young and naive. All ****ing off people has got us is negative press, penalty payments to contractors, legal costs racked up and a high turnover of staff. Being aggressive in negotiations and being effective are not at all the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Not sure why that's so outlandish. My word. You read a book on sociopaths and now you are an expert. You can see them everywhere. I was discussing what I want from the CEO, not whether I'm a sociopath or sound like one or share traits with one. Nice job editing your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 I'm not bothered about Saints being nice or friendly. Just means we are a soft touch, I want us to be disliked. Oh dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 You come across as extremely young and naive. All ****ing off people has got us is negative press, penalty payments to contractors, legal costs racked up and a high turnover of staff. Being aggressive in negotiations and being effective are not at all the same thing. Negative press? A few articles over four years and then the media falling over themselves on a daily basis at the start of the season. The balance of press over NCs tenure probably shifted dramatically towards his favour with the help of a good press team. All it took. What effect did all this negative coverage have? Did it hold us back? Never have I said NC was perfect. I just outlined what my priorities were for the new man or woman to take the job are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 But you are not going to maximise revenue by alienating supporters and local businesses, fighting with the media instead of utilising it and discarding the club's history instead of using it to enhance the brand. Many of Corteses' petty actions flied in the face of the professionalism you say is so important. I'm sorry, but saints hardly have the richest of histories to sell as a brand. Given the previous few years at saints a rebrand was needed in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 109 posts in and we haven't had 'the photo'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry, but saints hardly have the richest of histories to sell as a brand. Given the previous few years at saints a rebrand was needed in my opinion. You're just parroting words without understanding what they mean. How are you going to rebrand Southampton FC (est 1885)? Change the name to 'Zoom', relocate to Soho and become an online retailer? Saints is a football club based in Southampton - you can't 'imagineer' something different. Edited 20 January, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 You're just parroting words without understanding what they mean. How are you going to rebrand Southampton FC (est 1885)? Change the name to 'Zoom'? relocate to Soho? become an online retailer? Saints is a football club based in Southampton - you can't 'imagineer' something different. Oh my. I do know more than a little about branding, thanks. I never mentioned relocating, or anything of the sort. The fact is, Saints history is hardly that rich. There isn't a huge amount to maximise from harking to the past sadly. Other than that of being plucky Southampton that usually struggle and sometimes bloody a big clubs nose. You don't have to change your name, what you are or move to rebrand. It's as simple as the way you sell yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Oh my. I do know more than a little about branding, thanks. I never mentioned relocating, or anything of the sort. The fact is, Saints history is hardly that rich. There isn't a huge amount to maximise from harking to the past sadly. Other than that of being plucky Southampton that usually struggle and sometimes bloody a big clubs nose. You don't have to change your name, what you are or move to rebrand. It's as simple as the way you sell yourself. Go on then. Give us your rebrand pitch for Saints. Which elements are you going to bring out to construct a whole new image for Saints. Tell us about the marketing strategy that is going to blow into insignificance things like results, position in table and signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Go on then. Give us your rebrand pitch for Saints. Which elements are you going to bring out to construct a whole new image for Saints. Tell us about the marketing strategy that is going to blow into insignificance things like results, position in table and signings. Hang on, I thought it was all about the history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Hang on, I thought it was all about the history? Not according to you. Your words "The fact is, Saints history is hardly that rich. There isn't a huge amount to maximise from harking to the past sadly". "Given the previous few years at saints a rebrand was needed in my opinion". Come on then. Since "I do know more than a little about branding, thanks" give us your ideas. You wouldn't want people to think you're talking out your arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Oh go on then, ill indulge you. Nowt else to do. It's not about me. It's what the club did. In looking forward, and creating 'the Southampton way' the club presented itself as a professional, dynamic and forward thinking club. A club that looks to the future by investing millions in already top drawer training and youth facilities, and looks to make every small gain it possibly can. There was a drive to be the best it possibly could be, with the aim of playing in a certain way, from the first team to youth teams. With a pathway for youngsters to go on and establish themselves at the club. This is the way in which the club was trying to rebrand itself. No longer that plucky club on the south coast, but a force to be taken seriously. This is what attracted the Ramirez's, Pochettinos, Wanyama's Lovrens etc. Not the clubs history. Yes it helped we had financial backing too, but it were these things that sold the club to players, staff and in the end the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Not according to you. Your words "The fact is, Saints history is hardly that rich. There isn't a huge amount to maximise from harking to the past sadly". "Given the previous few years at saints a rebrand was needed in my opinion". Come on then. Since "I do know more than a little about branding, thanks" give us your ideas. You wouldn't want people to think you're talking out your arse. Lol, I'm so worried what people on Saintsweb think of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Lol, I'm so worried what people on Saintsweb think of me. I'll mark that down as a lame backtrack from a kid who has no idea what he's talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 (edited) I'll mark that down as a lame backtrack from a kid who has no idea what he's talking about. Riiiight. Nothing to say on how the club has successfully rebranded then? Gotta love the "I'm older than you, I'm right" line of argument. Scraping the barrel a bit mate? Edited 20 January, 2014 by KelvinsRightGlove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 My word. You read a book on sociopaths and now you are an expert. You can see them everywhere. I was discussing what I want from the CEO, not whether I'm a sociopath or sound like one or share traits with one. Nice job editing your post. Eh? Never claimed to be. I edited the post before your reply because I felt I had more to say. Whether you are a sociopath is important because it would explain why you valued the traits you did and why you don't give a stuff about traits other than ruthlessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 This is what attracted the Ramirez's, Pochettinos, Wanyama's Lovrens etc. Not the clubs history. Yes it helped we had financial backing too, but it were these things that sold the club to players, staff and in the end the media. What attracted the Ramirez's, Pochettinos, Wanyama's Lovrens was the spending of £75m on transfers and the fact "they will pay me so much money it was impossible to turn down". If is wasn't surely they all would be asking to leave again now Cortese has gone. Football clubs get nowhere without local support. Affinity to your city of birth and local club is a far more powerful driver to buy a season ticket than some ephemeral signing. Alienate your core constituency and you're lost. Thats why the little things, accumulating over years matter if you want to sell out a ground and build success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 The point is rather moot though since it seems that Katharina WILL be striving for a more fan friendly club seeing as MLT and others have been told they are now welcome at the club. Good for her and IMO actions like this will make the club stronger not weaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 What attracted the Ramirez's, Pochettinos, Wanyama's Lovrens was the spending of £75m on transfers and the fact "they will pay me so much money it was impossible to turn down". If is wasn't surely they all would be asking to leave again now Cortese has gone. Football clubs get nowhere without local support. Affinity to your city of birth and local club is a far more powerful driver to buy a season ticket than some ephemeral signing. Alienate your core constituency and you're lost. Thats why the little things, accumulating over years matter if you want to sell out a ground and build success. Excellent post. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 My advice would be please don't sell us to an Indian Halal Chicken Processing conglomerate, and then bail out at the first sign of discord.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Advice to new CEO. Sign MP on a 6 year + contract immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 What attracted the Ramirez's, Pochettinos, Wanyama's Lovrens was the spending of £75m on transfers and the fact "they will pay me so much money it was impossible to turn down". If is wasn't surely they all would be asking to leave again now Cortese has gone. Football clubs get nowhere without local support. Affinity to your city of birth and local club is a far more powerful driver to buy a season ticket than some ephemeral signing. Alienate your core constituency and you're lost. Thats why the little things, accumulating over years matter if you want to sell out a ground and build success. Ah yeah. Take part of one quote by one person and extrapolate that to everyone. How many people have gone on record about the ambition and vision of the club being a deciding factor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Oh go on then, ill indulge you. Nowt else to do. It's not about me. It's what the club did. In looking forward, and creating 'the Southampton way' the club presented itself as a professional, dynamic and forward thinking club. A club that looks to the future by investing millions in already top drawer training and youth facilities, and looks to make every small gain it possibly can. There was a drive to be the best it possibly could be, with the aim of playing in a certain way, from the first team to youth teams. With a pathway for youngsters to go on and establish themselves at the club. This is the way in which the club was trying to rebrand itself. No longer that plucky club on the south coast, but a force to be taken seriously. This is what attracted the Ramirez's, Pochettinos, Wanyama's Lovrens etc. Not the clubs history. Yes it helped we had financial backing too, but it were these things that sold the club to players, staff and in the end the media. As Buctootim has already said, finance is what got those players and this manager in, far more than some nebulous rebrand you are pretending happened. And we've had some positive coverage in the media, but nothing more than, say, Middlesborough under Steves Gibson and McClaren with benovolent investor and emphasis on young players and a Europa League final. Or Swansea last season. Or Newcastle with Alan Carr's dad and the first intake of wonder frenchmen. Bolton's finishing 6th, 7th, 7th and 8th in concecutive seasons. Hodgson turning around Fulham and WBA. Steve flipping Clarke at WBA last season, third in November or whatever it was. There's always a "new kid on the block" club for the press to get excited about. Next season it could be Derby County. Or West Brom again. We're pootling around in ninth place. We have not become a "force to be taken seriously" unless you believe WBA and Swansea were a "force to be taken seriously" last year. It's fair to say Cortese has done a cracking branding job on himself with a parade of poor saps convinced he is some messiah and his achievements are hyped up far more than the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 As Buctootim has already said, finance is what got those players and this manager in, far more than some nebulous rebrand you are pretending happened. And we've had some positive coverage in the media, but nothing more than, say, Middlesborough under Steves Gibson and McClaren with benovolent investor and emphasis on young players and a Europa League final. Or Swansea last season. Or Newcastle with Alan Carr's dad and the first intake of wonder frenchmen. Bolton's finishing 6th, 7th, 7th and 8th in concecutive seasons. Hodgson turning around Fulham and WBA. Steve flipping Clarke at WBA last season, third in November or whatever it was. There's always a "new kid on the block" club for the press to get excited about. Next season it could be Derby County. Or West Brom again. We're pootling around in ninth place. We have not become a "force to be taken seriously" unless you believe WBA and Swansea were a "force to be taken seriously" last year. It's fair to say Cortese has done a cracking branding job on himself with a parade of poor saps convinced he is some messiah and his achievements are hyped up far more than the reality. I'm not pretending it happened. It's coming from the club, players, media. The media perception was ever so important a few minutes ago. Now, less so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 As Buctootim has already said, finance is what got those players and this manager in, far more than some nebulous rebrand you are pretending happened. Yep, and finance was probably more important than rebranding in attracting the likes of Osgood, Ball, Keegan and Shilton to the plucky little club on the south coast – although, of course, that’s ancient history, so I’m very sorry for mentioning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 My advice would be please don't sell us to an Indian Halal Chicken Processing conglomerate, and then bail out at the first sign of discord.... Quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Oh my. I do know more than a little about branding, thanks. I never mentioned relocating, or anything of the sort. The fact is, Saints history is hardly that rich. There isn't a huge amount to maximise from harking to the past sadly. Other than that of being plucky Southampton that usually struggle and sometimes bloody a big clubs nose. You don't have to change your name, what you are or move to rebrand. It's as simple as the way you sell yourself. Check out mr young ruthless businessman. Have you just had your first ever works lunch at pitcher and piano and got a bit carried away or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 KelvinsRightGlove is having a shocker tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 Why not? As a fan, the only thing I care about is whether the team do well during the 90+ minutes of each game. Everything else is vanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 20 January, 2014 Share Posted 20 January, 2014 As Buctootim has already said, finance is what got those players and this manager in, far more than some nebulous rebrand you are pretending happened. And we've had some positive coverage in the media, but nothing more than, say, Middlesborough under Steves Gibson and McClaren with benovolent investor and emphasis on young players and a Europa League final. Or Swansea last season. Or Newcastle with Alan Carr's dad and the first intake of wonder frenchmen. Bolton's finishing 6th, 7th, 7th and 8th in concecutive seasons. Hodgson turning around Fulham and WBA. Steve flipping Clarke at WBA last season, third in November or whatever it was. There's always a "new kid on the block" club for the press to get excited about. Next season it could be Derby County. Or West Brom again. We're pootling around in ninth place. We have not become a "force to be taken seriously" unless you believe WBA and Swansea were a "force to be taken seriously" last year. It's fair to say Cortese has done a cracking branding job on himself with a parade of poor saps convinced he is some messiah and his achievements are hyped up far more than the reality. I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments of the poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 My advice to the new CEO would be "the sheep will ignore absolutely anything negative you do, as long as the team is successful on the pitch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 What attracted the Ramirez's, Pochettinos, Wanyama's Lovrens was the spending of £75m on transfers and the fact "they will pay me so much money it was impossible to turn down". If is wasn't surely they all would be asking to leave again now Cortese has gone. Football clubs get nowhere without local support. Affinity to your city of birth and local club is a far more powerful driver to buy a season ticket than some ephemeral signing. Alienate your core constituency and you're lost. Thats why the little things, accumulating over years matter if you want to sell out a ground and build success. Whilst I believe there is an element of truth in that you loose some under the negative circumstances you describe, I think you over estimate the size of that 'core' who care - those mainly stuck in the past who have never embraced any of the modern change in football. It may well be true for lower league small clubs, who only get 1850 on a dry day - a core - but for clubs the size of saints, anything lost by negative perceptions of the club as you describe, will be more than replaced by others who are attracted to success it achieves. 'Selling out' it may be, but it's the reality of the modern game- of the 32k at a match, less than 500 are likely to stop going if the club treats a local supplier badly... But I bet we get an extra 5000 if we qualified for the CL at least... also, we have had lots of 'stories' about the way NC has done this and that. And ****ed of everyone...etc... But we have not had any of this substantiated. Even with the two court cases , we speculate that the club was unjustified based on settling out of court, but that is not always the case in these cases. In effect it's naive to assume the blame always lies with the club.... And to accept the stories as the whole truth when we only hear one side. i doubt NC is the 'nicest' of blokes in business. But you do not need to be nice to succeed. You do not need to run the club in a way that keeps all historic customers happy either- you run it in a way that ensures you wil attract more new customers to replace the ones you lose. When some f you go on about the fact that success and nice/ right do not need to be mutually exclusive you are right - they don't, but find me that person - it's naive to think they are common, and it also implies that you expect folk to be perfect... Naive again. NC was far from perfect, but he was doing the things right that mattered to progress at the expense of some of the issues that impact some fans... ...and most of those he pushed off we're never going to be supportive anyway for historical and personal agendas. We would all love a bit more mother Teresa x Gandhi in our chairpersons - but ain't going to happen. Where board members have been 'nice' they have failed ultimately failed us, as they had not the power or control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilf Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 You do not need to run the club in a way that keeps all historic customers happy either- you run it in a way that ensures you wil attract more new customers to replace the ones you lose. You're right that you do not "need to". But since the 1980s businesses have realised that it's far more cost effective to retain existing customers, and grow the relationship with them, than it is to win new customers. Building on a loyal customer base is also far more prudent for the future than attracting Customers who may disappear quickly again when things aren't going quite so well. This is apart from the fact that football clubs are more than just businesses, but that's another argument.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 You're right that you do not "need to". But since the 1980s businesses have realised that it's far more cost effective to retain existing customers, and grow the relationship with them, than it is to win new customers. Building on a loyal customer base is also far more prudent for the future than attracting Customers who may disappear quickly again when things aren't going quite so well. This is apart from the fact that football clubs are more than just businesses, but that's another argument.... Tell me where this is the case? Do insurance companies offer new or existing customers incentives? Do Virgin Media, Sky and BT offer new or existing customer better incentives? Do mobile operators offer new or existing companies better incentives? Energy providers? Even retailers target new customers by the use of coupon code sites (Voucher Hub, Quid co etc.) where they give better offers for "new customers" rather than customers who have been contacted through a database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 Tell me where this is the case? Do insurance companies offer new or existing customers incentives? Do Virgin Media, Sky and BT offer new or existing customer better incentives? Do mobile operators offer new or existing companies better incentives? Energy providers? Even retailers target new customers by the use of coupon code sites (Voucher Hub, Quid co etc.) where they give better offers for "new customers" rather than customers who have been contacted through a database. Indeed. Whether it's right or wrong is another matter, but a club in this age does not give a flying folk about individual customers/fans. It does not negs to, as 'loyalty' bares no impact on revenue. I would hazard a guess that the number of supporters who have had a continuous ST for more than 5 years is small, 10 years smaller, and 20 tiny... All a business needs to do to grow, is ensure it gains More New customers than it loses old... And thus if the club can shift its demographic to higher income/more disposable income groups at the expense of loyal but only occasional attendees, it will do.... Its all all very well going on about 'heart of the community' rhetoric of days gone by, but those are the last battlecries of the lower league also rans... Top flight football is big business, and that will NOT change. No amount of nostalgic rhetoric will make a blind bit of difference - and that is not being cynical, it's being realistic. Under those circumstances, if you still chose to support and want your club to be the best it can, compete and not settle for mid table mediocrity year in year out (sadly many fans seem to think this is ok, when in sport it's about winning), then the drivers need to be unburdened by the establishment - which echoes the same 'know your place' rubbish. Once you you get over the slightly selfish and somewhat odd need for the club to constantly love you back, it's actually a lot easier to enjoy the progress and approach we have taken- if you are always looking for something that is wrong, you will find it - but it won't make you enjoy being a fan any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliegeorgesflymo Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 Sort out the poor service in the bar areas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 I would hazard a guess that the number of supporters who have had a continuous ST for more than 5 years is small' date=' 10 years smaller, and 20 tiny... .[/quote'] That shows how little you know about our support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 (edited) That shows how little you know about our support. Exactly. If the world was like FC claims then people would adopt a new team when they moved out of Southampton, but they don't, they maintain a loyalty. Ive lived in or near Brighton for more years than growing up in Southampton - but still drive 150 miles round trip to home games, often bringing my two Brighton born kids with me. Stretch people's loyalties too much and you lose it - turn them into just consumers of product. As a consumer I might as well go see Chelsea play - its closer, theres more glory and I get a day out in London - objectively a better day out than Saints, but emotionally it means nothing. . Edited 21 January, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 Exactly. If the world was like FC claims then people would adopt a new team when they moved out of Southampton, but they don't, they maintain a loyalty. Ive lived in or near Brighton for more years than growing up in Southampton - but still drive 150 miles round trip to home games, often bringing my two Brighton born kids with me. Stretch people's loyalties too much and you lose it - turn them into just consumers of product. As a consumer I might as well go see Chelsea play - its closer, theres more glory and I get a day out in London. I know plenty that support their home town clubs and have season tickets for argyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 (edited) I know plenty that support their home town clubs and have season tickets for argyle Navy blokes been based in Plymouth for years? developed an affection for Argyle over time but still go and see their home club when they can? Proves my point doesn't it? Edited 21 January, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 Whether it's right or wrong is another matter, but a club in this age does not give a flying folk about individual customers/fans. It does not negs to, as 'loyalty' bares no impact on revenue. I would hazard a guess that the number of supporters who have had a continuous ST for more than 5 years is small, 10 years smaller, and 20 tiny... All a business needs to do to grow, is ensure it gains More New customers than it loses old... And thus if the club can shift its demographic to higher income/more disposable income groups at the expense of loyal but only occasional attendees, it will do.... Its all all very well going on about 'heart of the community' rhetoric of days gone by, but those are the last battlecries of the lower league also rans... Top flight football is big business, and that will NOT change. No amount of nostalgic rhetoric will make a blind bit of difference - and that is not being cynical, it's being realistic. Under those circumstances, if you still chose to support and want your club to be the best it can, compete and not settle for mid table mediocrity year in year out (sadly many fans seem to think this is ok, when in sport it's about winning), then the drivers need to be unburdened by the establishment - which echoes the same 'know your place' rubbish. Once you you get over the slightly selfish and somewhat odd need for the club to constantly love you back, it's actually a lot easier to enjoy the progress and approach we have taken- if you are always looking for something that is wrong, you will find it - but it won't make you enjoy being a fan any more. FC, I can see the point you’re making, but the problem I have with it is this: you appear to be suggesting that clubs not giving a ‘flying folk’ about their loyal fan base is something new; I’m not convinced it is. When I first went to football in the 1960s, fans were herded onto rain and windswept terraces and packed in like sardines. Being very difficult to move, it was almost impossible to get something to eat or drink, and, woe betide, if you needed a p iss, or, even worse, if the chap behind you needed one. And, if you were short, like me, it was very difficult to actually see anything – at the famous Forest 3-3 Saints 1977 cup match, I didn’t see a single goal! And, I haven’t even mentioned the violence within the grounds. Now, I know that some people are nostalgic for these times; indeed, there are occasions when I, too, find myself reminiscing fondly about them. But, if you check out the attendances for the early 80s you will find, nationwide, they fell quite sharply – largely, because people tired of being treated like cattle. It was only when clubs started to take their fans more seriously, and, with the help of TV money etc, improved their facilities and offered their fans a better match day experience that attendances started to rise again. My concern is this: if clubs become complacent with their fans once again, then we are likely to see history repeat itself – old and new fans alike will become disenchanted, and attendances will fall again. Because, whether it’s from their partner, company, government or football club, people will only put up with so much sh it before they walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 I'm sorry, but saints hardly have the richest of histories to sell as a brand. Given the previous few years at saints a rebrand was needed in my opinion. Even if you are promoting the club as modern and forward thinking our history does add value to the SFC brand. Obviously our history is not as rich as some clubs but it adds value, just like a few trophy wins a hundred years or so ago adds to the image of clubs like Portsmouth or Preston North End. For example if Coventry hadn't had that spell in the top flight and won the FA Cup your perception of them as a club would be very different. History and tradition are a huge part of the identities of British football clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 Even if you are promoting the club as modern and forward thinking our history does add value to the SFC brand. Obviously our history is not as rich as some clubs but it adds value, just like a few trophy wins a hundred years or so ago adds to the image of clubs like Portsmouth or Preston North End. For example if Coventry hadn't had that spell in the top flight and won the FA Cup your perception of them as a club would be very different. History and tradition are a huge part of the identities of British football clubs. I don't necessarily disagree, but that I think that is from a fan's perspective. Players, advertisers, business will not be bothered about that happened at a club 30/40/50 years ago. What I was saying has been twisted. I was not saying history has no importance, I was saying that for me, it is of low priority for a CEO coming into the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilf Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 Tell me where this is the case? Do insurance companies offer new or existing customers incentives? Do Virgin Media, Sky and BT offer new or existing customer better incentives? Do mobile operators offer new or existing companies better incentives? Energy providers? I know from my work that many companies want to be "farmers" not "hunters" when it comes to customers; but here are some examples for me as a consumer: Virgin Media have gone to great lengths to retain me as a customer and have proactively contacted me offering reductions in tariff and extra services. Virgin Mobile give me incentives to get family members on contracts thereby achieving a good lock in of me as a customer. O2 have given me a great deals in the past to retain me when I asked about leaving. Virgin Money provide me free access to a lounge in the city centre as long as I remain a customer. Aviva have a customer programme offering me discounts across products and free competitions etc Chubb phoned me up last week asking if I was happy with service and offered to reduce my bill by 15% This morning I cancelled an Amazon Audible subscription and to do so I had to turn down some good incentives to reconsider. My contracts with British Gas are up for renewal so I'll let you know how that goes :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 Do not employ Simon Clifford Improve the catering to its former glory Bring back a radio station Put a picture of a train in the boardroom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 Once you you get over the slightly selfish and somewhat odd need for the club to constantly love you back, it's actually a lot easier to enjoy the progress and approach we have taken- if you are always looking for something that is wrong, you will find it - but it won't make you enjoy being a fan any more. This has to be the wisest words I've seen posted on here in the 13 years I've been visiting this forum. Take note peeps...it's true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 21 January, 2014 Share Posted 21 January, 2014 This has to be the wisest words I've seen posted on here in the 13 years I've been visiting this forum. Take note peeps...it's true gee...thanks ;-) It is a strange concept - the 'uber/traditional fans' say that love for your club is forever and unconditional - yet in reality they place so many conditions on that love - from the way its run, by whom, how its owned, how it runs it business, demands to show ambition, but not too much ambition in case someone thinks its silly...blah blah blah... as we have seen in recent days and posts, its hardly 'unconditional...' What some forget is that when I say I admire NC - its for the result and progress over the last 5 years. I do not know him as a person, nor have I seen anything that shocks me with respect to the way a businessman would behave in the situations made public - so I cant comment on his character, nor that of Ms Liebherr, yet plenty on here seem happy to do so for whatever purpose... My point, as you highlight above, is that my expectations are a) the club does everything it can to TRY and win football matches.... I could add a shed load of additional 'conditions' to that and end up with a long ... long list... against which I could then score the club on how well they are achieving each of these... and how badly they are doing in some areas.... yet in doing so, I would probably enjoy being a fan a lot less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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