redkeith Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Ki pulled him back to start with, but Foy played advantage. That is a booking 100% of the time but Foy didn't go back and give him his 2nd yellow. Also think that Foy would have given as free kick if Brown had made that tackle 40 yards out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Don't talk nonsense. Has Shearer got in in for Southampton, what about Michael Owen and the Commentator, what about the guys back in the studio Steve M and David James, what about Saints Manager and players who told Adam Blackmore they thought it was fair, have they all got in in for Southampton? How can you say that? Are you a saints fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 What mental logic, if you're a saints fan it's impossible to think he COULD have made that tackle cleanly is it?!! Just seen it on MOTD and he did indeed get a toe on the ball before of contact with Ramirez, so I'm bang on the money as usual. Read the post again, take a deep breath and engage brain. The question was COULD he have made that tackle safely and got the ball? And did he deliberately try and foul and hurt Ramirez. The answer is of course yes, if he'd been slightly better positioned, slightly quicker, slide I slightly earlier, he makes a clean tackle the ball and wins it easily. you are talking fractions of seconds between a good tackle and a foul. Bit of course it's only Lunatic internet saints who think that this is impossible and what happened was he tried to snap Ramirez in half, nut job. LooK at me..look at me It wasnt a deliberate attempt to injure but a foul nevertheless...to say it wasnt is, using your word, lunatic...just because a player brushes the ball and takes the player out does not make it a clean tackle.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Didn't Schneiderlin get a yellow earlier this season for a tackle where he very clearly took the ball first but the follow through was deemed dangerous? Yes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 I thought any tackle from behind is a foul whether they touch the ball or not. The reason they try to stop such tackles was to stop this type of injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 I thought any tackle from behind is a foul whether they touch the ball or not. The reason they try to stop such tackles was to stop this type of injury It certainly used to be. It seems to have fallen by the wayside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Don't talk nonsense. Has Shearer got in in for Southampton, what about Michael Owen and the Commentator, what about the guys back in the studio Steve M and David James, what about Saints Manager and players who told Adam Blackmore they thought it was fair, have they all got in in for Southampton? Lallana seems to have changed is mind after seing a replay of it, maybe others would´ve done too? “I’ve seen a picture of the tackle on Gastón and it’s not nice at all" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 It certainly used to be. It seems to have fallen by the wayside. Once again in England as per usual where the rules are differently applied to everywhere else. Watched the game on Canal yesterday as per usual, commentator said 'that's a red card' the instant that Gaston was scythed down, they just could not believe that Brown got nothing at all for it. Said that the FA needs to implement the rules correctly because as there will be new (and stringent) advice to refs this WC over professional fouls,dangerous tackles, holding and shirt pulling then players evolving in England will have a rude shock in store. same sort of thing was said in the Liverpool game where Bacuna was seen to deliberately turn the ball away with his forearm in his own box and nothing was given, then again as Suarez conned the ref later on in the game justice was served in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 I thought any tackle from behind is a foul whether they touch the ball or not. The reason they try to stop such tackles was to stop this type of injury No, its interpretation like anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monosaint Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 As I said yesterday the FIFA Rules state in the context of a Reckless Tackle. “Reckless” means that the player has made the move with complete disregard for danger to, or consequences for, his opponent. No mention of getting the ball first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Japanese press suggesting that Yoshida might be going to Yokohama. Guess Lovren's injury changes things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 BG saint . I see the point you make . However the tackle wasn't initially bad but the follow through ended up with the horrendous tackle on garstkns left leg . The only person who will know if it was deliberate to take the player out is brown . Did any one notice browns facial expressions shortly after the foul? I wonder if garstons habit of going to ground Had any impact on the ref not giving the foul? Still a bad tackle . Would garston have scored probably but then he could have do e a puncheon . We will never know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Ps. I thought it was a foul and still do . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Saint Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Celtic's Stokes sent off without second thought from the ref for a similar tackle...in the Scottish PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 No, its interpretation like anything. It was a FIFA directive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkeith Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Watching it again, the touch that brown gets doesn't change the direction of the ball, so if he doesn't take Gaston out, Gaston would have had a free run on goal. So, in my opinion, the fact that he got a touch should be irrelevant as he has stopped a goal scoring opportunity with his follow through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 (edited) It was a FIFA directive. which is being blatantly ignored by refs in the UK like many others. It was a red card and a FK in the D, the ref just got it all wrong as do many other GB refs every game every week. It's not for nothing that managers are getting fined every other week for their views on refereeing. They know the rules, they're familiar with the directives and yet there are situations in every game where the rules are not applied. Edited 19 January, 2014 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 He may have got a slight touch on the ball but the rules regarding reckless tackles say “Reckless” means that the player has made the move with complete disregard for danger to, or consequences for, his opponent. Wes Brown I think did exactly that. To me, this is the crux of the matter (which MLG has also pointed out); it doesn't matter if he touched the ball or not, when the tackle was so reckless that he snapped Gaston's ankle. I can only assume this was the explanation behind Wes Brown's overturned red card earlier in the season, where he got the ball and didn't touch the opponent, but the tackle was so reckless that the referee took action. Yes, 101gg are notorious for being overly dramatic, but still they write: HTF did Wesley Brown get away without so much as a booking for this horror tackle? The Sunderland defender butchered into a horrendous challenge from behind on Saints’ Gaston Ramirez, getting nowhere near the ball and snapping Ramirez’s ankle back. Ramirez was duly stretchered off with what could be a broken ankle; here’s hoping Brown gets a retrospective ban for this horror show! http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/wes-brown-escapes-even-a-booking-for-horror-ankle-snapping-tackle-from-behind-on-gaston-ramirez/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 cant help thinking that a tackle that involves a slight touch but sends someone off on a stretcher is a very dangerous one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsaints106 Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 The title of this thread indicates is misleading! I guess there is no news on the severity of the injuries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 cant help thinking that a tackle that involves a slight touch but sends someone off on a stretcher is a very dangerous one yep and makes a big difference if touch on ball clears it away or if it doesn´t even change the speed or direction where the ball is going... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redder freak Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Clumsy reckless tackle. Could easily have broken Gaston's leg. Just because you touch the ball doesn't give you the right to break someone's leg afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Anyone know the extent of the injuries yet? Hope they both recover ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Jude Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 If you look at it closely...Brown gets a touch, followed by another touch by Gaston, followed by Brown completely going through Gaston.... So the first touch is actually irrelevant ....but still...have to move on now,...more interested to know how Lovren is doing?.... We can survive 6-8 weeks without GR... But not convinced we can without DL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Wasn't it said on this thread that lovrens leg is fine and he will be back soon. Hopefully soon means next week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Wasn't it said on this thread that lovrens leg is fine and he will be back soon. Hopefully soon means next week! Hi Georgie xxx Yes, his Facebook said last night 'thanks for all the good wishes, the leg is okay and I'll be back on the pitch soon' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenagegsaint Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 It was a great challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 It was a great challenge Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Confirmation that the tackle from behind is now allowed just been seen in the Swansea v Spurs game Rose just piled through the back of Routledge under not much control bending him in half backwards ref just gave the throw-in to Swansea. Time to play like Norman Hunter once again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tttdcs Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 It was a great challenge You are the sort of ***t that should be banned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSixty Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Don't think it was a particularly bad challenge from Brown. Just a little unlucky that he followed through on Gastons ankle. As for Lovren, well, he got injured trying to kick someone so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 It was a FIFA directive. No an interpretation, we all see exactly the same thing differently, the ball was touched, he was going for the ball, he got the ball and then the player, split call as if you consider challenges are at some point going to touch the opposition the game would be about 6 hours long and you would finish with 3 men, professional dont think it was a foul and neither does the referee and shock of shocks a Southampton FC website thinks the challenge was an outrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Why did Bony get booked against Spurs today? Surely he touched the ball and then followed through on the Spurs defender... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0108787 Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Don't think it was a particularly bad challenge from Brown. Just a little unlucky that he followed through on Gastons ankle. As for Lovren, well, he got injured trying to kick someone so... This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Durman Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 (edited) Don't talk nonsense. Has Shearer got in in for Southampton, what about Michael Owen and the Commentator, what about the guys back in the studio Steve M and David James, what about Saints Manager and players who told Adam Blackmore they thought it was fair, have they all got in in for Southampton? Duckhead you really need to read the rules!!!!! And referees need to apply them! Edited 19 January, 2014 by Andy Durman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Any news yet on how serious the injuries were? Usually get something by now, no? Slow moment on Gaston's looked pretty bad. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redder freak Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 He has to be sent off for that - ludicrous refereeing! Brown touches the ball. Then Gaston touches it into the penalty area. Then Brown takes Gaston out. Clear foul in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Regardless of the fact it's not true, what sort of bellend would ever actually say something like that? Um ... Turkish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 No an interpretation, we all see exactly the same thing differently, the ball was touched, he was going for the ball, he got the ball and then the player, split call as if you consider challenges are at some point going to touch the opposition the game would be about 6 hours long and you would finish with 3 men, professional dont think it was a foul and neither does the referee and shock of shocks a Southampton FC website thinks the challenge was an outrage. No it wasn't. The FIFA directive specifically covered this type of foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 You would get sent off for a 2 footed challenge that touched the ball first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARCELONASAINT Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Both Gaston and Lovren arrived at Southampton airport last night with the rest of the team. Both were in leg braces but in good spirits and laughing away with the rest of the lads. Team spirit looked really good and can only assume that neither player is as badly hurt as first thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 It dates back to 1998: http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/footballdevelopment/news/newsid=70380/index.html The wording was changed later (several times) . The wording of law 12 is now: 'A tackle that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play.' Note the word 'tackle' and not 'foul'. I've found various later discussions: http://www.bettersoccercoaching.com/soccerforum/Topic26-4-1.aspx http://asktheref.com/Soccer%20Rules/Question/18391/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 (edited) In todays match between Chelsea and Man u Rafael clearly got the full ball (not just a brush) but was booked because he did so with two feet coming in from the side which was deemed dangerous. Therefore whether Wes Brown touched the ball or not is not really relevant if the tackle is deemed dangerous. As it was clearly from behind it must surely therefore be dangerous and hence a foul and yellow card at least and a red if it was also deemed to stop a scoring chance. Edited 19 January, 2014 by Saint Without a Halo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Showing my ignorance here - can a card be awarded retrospectively after seeing the foul on video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Didn't Schneiderlin get a yellow earlier this season for a tackle where he very clearly took the ball first but the follow through was deemed dangerous?I remember Stevie Gerrard getting a penalty when he jumped out of the way of a tackle, but a penalty was given as the intent to foul was there. Makes the Gaston incident seem even more strange to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 Showing my ignorance here - can a card be awarded retrospectively after seeing the foul on video? Yes, provided that the incident was not dealt with by the referee at the time. A yellow card, for example, cannot be upgraded to a red but an off-the-ball incident definitely can. Technically it wouldn't be a card but a suspension. It won't happen in Brown's case unless a complaint is made and Foy says that he didn't see it, but he won't say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 In todays match between Chelsea and Man u Rafael clearly got the full ball (not just a brush) but was booked because he did so with two feet coming in from the side which was deemed dangerous. Therefore whether Wes Brown touched the ball or not is not really relevant if the tackle is deemed dangerous. As it was clearly from behind it must surely therefore be dangerous and hence a foul and yellow card at least and a red if it was also deemed to stop a scoring chance. He should have been sent off, that's what the rules say, two feet off the ground towards the opponent = Red card, there is no interpretation possible, if you do it you're off. He was lucky that Vidic had been sent off for a not so dangerous professional foul 2 minutes beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 No an interpretation, we all see exactly the same thing differently, the ball was touched, he was going for the ball, he got the ball and then the player, split call as if you consider challenges are at some point going to touch the opposition the game would be about 6 hours long and you would finish with 3 men, professional dont think it was a foul and neither does the referee and shock of shocks a Southampton FC website thinks the challenge was an outrage. This view is only given as you have an anti Saints agenda which manifests itself in may guises, whether it is in your constant attacking of NC, your clueless attacks on MP, and you ever so "insightful" about certain players.. Your opinion is and should be regarded utterly worthless.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 (edited) He should have been sent off, that's what the rules say, two feet off the ground towards the opponent = Red card, there is no interpretation possible, if you do it you're off. He was lucky that Vidic had been sent off for a not so dangerous professional foul 2 minutes beforehand. All the pundits were agreed it should have been a red, in our case all the pundits agreed it was a fair tackle. On goals on Sunday they didn't even show it. Had Lovren or Shaw made that tackle and got sent off, the same posters calling for a red would be up in arms about an anti saints bias. People like Shearer, Owen and James have played the game, Chris Foy is a professional ref. Mike Jones was dropped for one poor decision at Newcastle, had it been as bad as some posters made out, Foy will suffer the same fate. I doubt if he will, because the general consensus is it was a fair tackle, with a horrendous outcome. This was certainly a lot worse. Edited 19 January, 2014 by Lord Duckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 19 January, 2014 Share Posted 19 January, 2014 All the pundits were agreed it should have been a red, in our case all the pundits agreed it was a fair tackle. On goals on Sunday they didn't even show it. Had Lovren or Shaw made that tackle and got sent off, the same posters calling for a red would be up in arms about an anti saints bias. People like Shearer, Owen and James have played the game, Chris Foy is a professional ref. Mike Jones was dropped for one poor decision at Newcastle, had it been as bad as some posters made out, Foy will suffer the same fate. I doubt if he will, because the general consensus is it was a fair tackle, with a horrendous outcome. This was certainly a lot worse. Does that make it the correct then? just because a pundit said it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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