Glasgow_Saint Posted 16 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 March, 2014 Enough money would get most clubs there eventually. Doing it quickly, at the first time of asking and sustaining it is more difficult. Leicester spent bucketloads and got nothing from it for years - they didn't spend much at all this summer and here they are. Money really doesn't guarantee you anything in any given season, but it certainly helps and anyone who keeps having money poured into them will get there eventually. What's happened at Southampton is pretty remarkable just for the speed of it. Why are we going for £150m, by the way? Is that how much the Liebherrs have put in? We really have no idea how much money they have or how much they've put in. Norwich did it on half of what we spent (transfers + wages) What they did is remarkable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 16 March, 2014 Share Posted 16 March, 2014 Just to point out how hard it is In our championship season we spent £4.9m on players (source http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/championship/transferuebersicht/wettbewerb_GB2_2011_a.html) To put that into context in that same year Brighton, West Ham and Leicester spent more. Two of them did not go up that season. We spent only £1m more that season (from £3.9m to £4.9m) then Derby and the Skates. Again neither went up. The following championship season (12/13) Blackburn, Wolves, Cardiff, Hull, Forest and Leicester all spent more then we did and only two went up. Wolves went down even after spending £13.5m on players. Cardiff came up after spending £11.5m. Double what we spent. This season Wigan, QPR and Forest have spent more. In our last league one season (10/11) we spent £2.6m on players. (source http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/league-one/transferuebersicht/wettbewerb_GB3_2010_a.html) So to say here is £150m and get to the PL from league one is not quite as simple as you would like to imply. To do it the way we have it is to spend £2.6m in league one and £4.9m in the championship. So that is £7.5m to spend on players to get you from league one to the premiership. As shown some teams have spent nearly double that and went down. Then when you get to the PL within 2 years with back to back promotions off that £7.5m you get £36.5m to spend, keeping in mind QPR spent £45m and went down. And Sunderland spent £34.5m and almost went down. Newcastle spent almost £30m and almost went down etc etc. Not quite as easy as it looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 16 March, 2014 Share Posted 16 March, 2014 Norwich did it on half of what we spent (transfers + wages) What they did is remarkable Indeed. We've both done incredibly well. It's not a competition. But if it was, perhaps we could decide it with a football match? Just to point out how hard it is In our championship season we spent £4.9m on players (source http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/championship/transferuebersicht/wettbewerb_GB2_2011_a.html) To put that into context in that same year Brighton, West Ham and Leicester spent more. Two of them did not go up that season. We spent only £1m more that season (from £3.9m to £4.9m) then Derby and the Skates. Again neither went up. The following championship season (12/13) Blackburn, Wolves, Cardiff, Hull, Forest and Leicester all spent more then we did and only two went up. Wolves went down even after spending £13.5m on players. Cardiff came up after spending £11.5m. Double what we spent. This season Wigan, QPR and Forest have spent more. In our last league one season (10/11) we spent £2.6m on players. (source http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/league-one/transferuebersicht/wettbewerb_GB3_2010_a.html) So to say here is £150m and get to the PL from league one is not quite as simple as you would like to imply. To do it the way we have it is to spend £2.6m in league one and £4.9m in the championship. So that is £7.5m to spend on players to get you from league one to the premiership. As shown some teams have spent nearly double that and went down. Then when you get to the PL within 2 years with back to back promotions off that £7.5m you get £36.5m to spend, keeping in mind QPR spent £45m and went down. And Sunderland spent £34.5m and almost went down. Newcastle spent almost £30m and almost went down etc etc. Not quite as easy as it looks. Interesting, thanks for this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 16 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 March, 2014 Indeed. We've both done incredibly well. It's not a competition. But if it was, perhaps we could decide it with a football match? And the team that spent the most..... Won Look at the prem table.... Teams that spent the most are at the top. Same in every league around the world. You can find one or two examples of teams that temporarily buck the trend, but the facts dont change. To be succesful, you dont need a great chairman or manager.... You need ££££ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 16 March, 2014 Share Posted 16 March, 2014 And the team that spent the most..... Won Look at the prem table.... Teams that spent the most are at the top. Same in every league around the world. You can find one or two examples of teams that temporarily buck the trend, but the facts dont change. To be succesful, you dont need a great chairman or manager.... You need ££££ You need both. Great chairmen and managers can achieve some things without money, money can't do squat without the right people to use it. Not sure why I'm feeding you, anyway. But it is interesting to look at other clubs' spending and success! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 16 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 March, 2014 You need both. Great chairmen and managers can achieve some things without money, money can't do squat without the right people to use it. Not sure why I'm feeding you, anyway. But it is interesting to look at other clubs' spending and success! Look at Pompey.... with money FA cup finals, fa cup winners, Europe, top 10 prem without relegated from prem, relegated from champ, relegated from l1, near bottom of l2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 16 March, 2014 Share Posted 16 March, 2014 Oh dear, Glasgow 'one game' Saint having his pants pulled down again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 16 March, 2014 Share Posted 16 March, 2014 Look at Pompey.... with money FA cup finals, fa cup winners, Europe, top 10 prem without relegated from prem, relegated from champ, relegated from l1, near bottom of l2 Irresponsible and unsustainable use of money - FA cup, Europe, top 10 followed by consecutive relegations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 16 March, 2014 Share Posted 16 March, 2014 We have 100 hysterical nicola support "we are doomed" threads. This one looks at it a different way. Did Nicola create miracles or could anyone/ any club do it with significant financial backing? Play the post, not the poster Its the same discussion as before - just in a different guise so I think that playing the poster is fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 16 March, 2014 Share Posted 16 March, 2014 I personally want to thank the moron OP for bringing this thread to my attention and reminding me why I and many others no longer donate a fiver a year to be more of a part of this site. Nice one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 16 March, 2014 Share Posted 16 March, 2014 another thread started that should be elsewhere. Dont you have a mirror in the house Glasgow to ask look at me? He wouldn't be able to see his reflection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 16 March, 2014 Share Posted 16 March, 2014 It's sad seeing Glasgow desperately trying to cling on to his title as Head Troll when no-one finds him funny, annoying, interesting, or anything really. He's like Queen Mab from that Merlin show with Sam Neill, shouting and screaming desperately while everyone just turns around, walks away and ignores him whilst he disappears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmaul Posted 16 March, 2014 Share Posted 16 March, 2014 It's not sad, it's quite funny it's getting a bit desperate now too, how's the updated form table looking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarrettIvo Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 And the team that spent the most..... Won Look at the prem table.... Teams that spent the most are at the top. Same in every league around the world. You can find one or two examples of teams that temporarily buck the trend, but the facts dont change. To be succesful, you dont need a great chairman or manager.... You need ££££ David Moyes. That is all. Norwich have indeed done well on a smaller budget, but they'll almost certainly be back in the Championship come August. That's more to do with the manager than the money people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picard Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 Relative spending of prem clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 Relative spending of prem clubs. How dare you use data to support your pov - this a not allowed and only unsubstantiated hypothetical questions are encouraged that don't contain veiled WUMing. not that Glasgow is a WUM, this forum has none as trousers has expertly demonstrated, but Glasgow has his figures wrong and is asking the wrong question as a result - which does make him look rather daft. To get from L1 to the Prem, cost saints an estimated 35-50mil over and above commercial revenues INCLUDING the 14 mil purchase of the club and any money we had already spent on the Academy development. So to respond to Glasgows interesting question - but first to make it REALISTIC (after all anything that is not realistic is frowned upon) which L1 side would I chose and take back to the Prem for only say 25mil over 3 years? Obviously Wolves of Sheffield United.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 Can everyone please stop picking on Glasgow. I have nothing else to do today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 How dare you use data to support your pov - this a not allowed and only unsubstantiated hypothetical questions are encouraged that don't contain veiled WUMing. not that Glasgow is a WUM, this forum has none as trousers has expertly demonstrated, but Glasgow has his figures wrong and is asking the wrong question as a result - which does make him look rather daft. To get from L1 to the Prem, cost saints an estimated 35-50mil over and above commercial revenues INCLUDING the 14 mil purchase of the club and any money we had already spent on the Academy development. So to respond to Glasgows interesting question - but first to make it REALISTIC (after all anything that is not realistic is frowned upon) which L1 side would I chose and take back to the Prem for only say 25mil over 3 years? Obviously Wolves of Sheffield United.... To be fair, that data says it uses last seasons wage figures which would have increased significantly considering the extensions made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 Norwich did it on half of what we spent (transfers + wages) What they did is remarkable Yep, the standard of football that they played on Saturday was remarkably bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 You need both. Great chairmen and managers can achieve some things without money, money can't do squat without the right people to use it. Not sure why I'm feeding you, anyway. But it is interesting to look at other clubs' spending and success! To be fair, money gets you the right chairman and manager. The only reason Cortese, Pardew, Adkins or Poch were anywhere near SFC is Leibherr's millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 To be fair, money gets you the right chairman and manager. The only reason Cortese, Pardew, Adkins or Poch were anywhere near SFC is Leibherr's millions. Man united prove that money gets you the right chairman and manager. They are flying right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 Man united prove that money gets you the right chairman and manager. They are flying right now Think Chelsea and Man City are a better example of what money can buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 Ok heres the question. You are given £150m and your pick of the league 1 teams Could you get them from league 1 to mid table premiership in 4 years? £150m can be used to cover wages, transfers, staff, hiring, firing etc etc You know what? This would make a great game. Perhaps on the PC platform and then expand to other platforms. You could have things like transfers, and meet the media, and team choices, and perhaps whatch the game in a simulated 3D environmrnt. You could call it Manager of Football, or Soccer Manager or Football Manager if you will. You could even update it on a Yearly basis and just include the year as an addition to distinguish it from the previous one the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 (edited) this is another example of how opinions, forecasts and estimates can vary 100%. IF we were to put a figure on the valuation of Saints' .....then it's pure conjecture. If you're suggesting it could be - say £150 million........that doesn't represent anything like the money paid put already spent by the Liebherrs. Club cost £15 million (which included SMS)...and then what ? After bankruptcy and until we got back in the Prem. the most we spent on any player was probably the £1 million+ ... for Rickie Lambert.... (argueably the best million we've spent in recent years). After which we only invested " big money " on Ramirez, Wanyama and Osvaldo..***..(none of whom has convinced me they're the best thing since sliced bread, and we'll be lucky to maintain their valuations) For me the Jay Rod and Lovren fees were money very well spent, and I'm glad we haven't been sued for highway robbery by anyone since. Lallana and the other more recent Academy graduates have a far greater " transfer value " than the big three mentioned above *** in today's market. "possible transfer fees " for them are so variable as to be laughable. Journo's and amateur site-owners have valued Shaw between £15-30 million..() but I'm not sure which planet they've been living on ? It seems that some " big money " clubs seem to spend a fortune on foreign players, yet think they can sign-up the best English players for a song, and that the likes of the Saints Board will fall on their knees in gratitude as soon as some " big club " opens their wallet. Hey guess what ....we don't need the money ! The only definite figure in all this is the TV sponsorship money, and any actual " surplus " available for future transfers will depend on how big their salary bill is already committed to paying x number of players £100K (or more ) - a week salaries on a 4-5 year contract. Sorry. EVERY club would need separate analyses of their finances, potential investment / running costs. I don't have time or the inclination to go further, and am happy with the current Liebherr regime at SMS. Edited 17 March, 2014 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 17 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 17 March, 2014 This is going a bit of topic - so ill remind you of the question again. You are given £150m and your pick of the league 1 teams Could you get them from league 1 to mid table premiership in 4 years? £150m can be used to cover wages, transfers, staff, hiring, firing etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 This is going a bit of topic - so ill remind you of the question again. You are given £150m and your pick of the league 1 teams Could you get them from league 1 to mid table premiership in 4 years? £150m can be used to cover wages, transfers, staff, hiring, firing etc etcNigel Adkins couldnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 (edited) This is going a bit of topic - so ill remind you of the question again. You are given £150m and your pick of the league 1 teams Could you get them from league 1 to mid table premiership in 4 years? £150m can be used to cover wages, transfers, staff, hiring, firing etc etc I was quoting Saints as one of the few examples there have been, Glasgow. I don't see any of the present L1 sides coming anywhere near that. The scope of expenditure required needs an foreign millionaire who is willing to buy a club at that level, which has a good reputation, an all-seater 25K plus stadium which would meet Prem. standards .....and a large volume of fans .....in an even larger catchment area, who would be willing to desert their present club to support a more successful one. London or Midlands area..........and of course to tempt a " good enough manager" to L1 .....in order to pull them together on limited budget... scared: It may have worked for Saints, but Nigel Adkins (we all said - who ?).....was a gamble from Day 1. I wonder if NA would have had the nous to sign Rickie Lambert - who was the main reason for our successes in L1....because he didn't ......Alan Pardew did. it's all a bit too theoretical for me - SORRY. Edited 17 March, 2014 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 This is going a bit of topic - so ill remind you of the question again. You are given £150m and your pick of the league 1 teams Could you get them from league 1 to mid table premiership in 4 years? £150m can be used to cover wages, transfers, staff, hiring, firing etc etc As as it's your game and you are making up the rules as you go along, please can you answer the following to ensure we are working within a REALISTIC set of parameters. We all know how important realism I so you. when you say 150 mil in 4 years, I presume that INCLUDES approx. 100-120 mil of revenue from commercial sources that you would get in that time, naturally with approx 65mil for that first season back, so can we say a combination of 120mil in income + say an additional 35mil investment from our owner? that would be a good one as it is pretty representative of a club we all love, so we could use this as a kinda fun game to see whether anyone could get any club from L1 to mid table Prem in 4 years on back of an additional 35mil form a rich benefactor, or whether it takes a bit more.... But let's not stop there, let's try and ensure we also give 4-5 places to home grown talent, and play attractive football. Great idea this Glasgow! and there was me originally thinking you were just trying to score a cheap point against the now departed ex Chairman... How wrong I was.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 Great idea this Glasgow! and there was me originally thinking you were just trying to score a cheap point against the now departed ex Chairman... How wrong I was.... I used to laugh at the "Glasgow is a skate" theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 I used to laugh at the "Glasgow is a skate" theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 If it's all about potential I'd drop a league and go for Plymouth. Always thought that with decent management they could become a regional power and go far. Nice part of the world too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 Didn't cost us anything like 150 million, The club was purchased for 13 and made it to the Premiership with a net spend of 2 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 17 March, 2014 Share Posted 17 March, 2014 No, I'm a chemist. What a pointless thread. still my favourite reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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