CORTESE - a personal and factual view of why Ms Liebherr was right.

[hypochondriac]

Great article totally agree.

[stevegrant]

Interesting/amusing to see that the two big hitters in the Daily Mail's sports department aren't exactly singing from the same hymn sheet

[Whitey Grandad]

Wise words, very true.

[SarniaSaint]

Owner: I would like to know what is going on in my company

Sole director: No. Mind your own business and leave me in peace

Owner: It is my business and I will put in place some checks and balances.

Sole director: If you do that, I'm off

 

If you read between the lines of the Indy article, NC comes out rather badly. OK, he has done, for the greater part, a fantastic job, but the owner wanting to know a bit more of what is going on in their £150m company and to have some say (or control) over the sole director who they employ, really is not unreasonable. In fact, in any business (except seemingly football) if an owner had no say in their own company, they would be thought of as naive, stupid, open to be taken to the cleaners, etc etc. The article rather suggests that NC forgot his position in life.

 

This is what probably has happened.

 

Remember he (or he) who has the gold makes the rules.

[SarniaSaint]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2541553/Cortese-thought-star-Southampton-just-rich-familys-banker-Martin-Samuel.html

 

Close to the truth methinks.

 

TY for the link

[warsash saint]

On another subject why is it ok to call NC a sociopath (conjecture for a start and an insult based on a suggestion around someone's mental health) but not ok to call KL a salad dodger (which is fundamentally a fact, although not a particularly nice one)

 

 

FFFs get over it!!! Do you have to mention it in EVERY one of your posts??

[Saint George]

I think Window Cleaner is close to hitting the nail......I'm totally convinced that clues to the real reason for Cortese's departure lie with the MALI group and it's apparent demise since Katharina took over...

 

Cortese has been involved and seen first hand what happened to the other companies after input from Katharina and I recon couldn't bear to see Southampton FC suffer the same fate so got the hell out of dodge while he could....No one gives up on 5 years hard work like that without a damned good reason, especially if they're being offered "insane" amounts of money to stay.

 

To say he was just too arrogant to hand over some control to the owners is laughable....Arrogant and an arshole he maybe, but he's been around the block enough times to know the deal....He only had the control he had, because Marcus insisted on it and was proved right to do so.......Na, I think it's been more a case of 'who' he was having to hand over more control too.

 

Personally I hope to god she sells us and damned quick...I see nothing good coming from this otherwise.

[buctootim]

FFFs get over it!!! Do you have to mention it in EVERY one of your posts??

 

Careful, he sounds like a psycho

[hypochondriac]

I don't think anyone can argue that what KL has done is unreasonable, no matter what the context behind the decision - it is after all her money and she owns the football club so that is that. It does not mean that everyone has to like it and it certainly should not mean that people who think it is a cause for concern and question her motives are wetting the bed. They might be wrong and let us hope that is the case but it is entirely understandable that a number of people would react to this with trepidation because it is yet another step into the unknown. The revisionist bullsh!t being written by some about Lowe though is a joke, and not a very funny one - being peddled by people who were either big chums with him or who have very short memories. To suggest that a man who presided over our relegation and administration had more success in running the club than a man who took us from -10 in League One to the top half of the Premier League in 5 years is simply absurd! I don't have a personal agenda and I hope to God that the situation works out and KL either looks after the club well herself or sells it to someone who will but I have grave doubts about that at present.

 

On another subject why is it ok to call NC a sociopath (conjecture for a start and an insult based on a suggestion around someone's mental health) but not ok to call KL a salad dodger (which is fundamentally a fact, although not a particularly nice one)

 

Actually there is much debate as to whether being a sociopath makes you mentally unhealthy. Many consider it a strength or a superpower (or at least a sociopath would and would certainly not be offended since they are incapable of that emotion.)

[Mowgli]

Did anyone get further than the original claim of a factual view that was then backed up with rumours? Far too many people bearing grudges. At the end of the day we have had a series of colourful characters at saints these last 40 years or so. Love em or hate em they have all added to the tapestry that is saints. Let's look forward. Great times ahead.

[St Marco]

Funny how all the people come out to slag Cortese off now he has gone. Like that daily mail article. In some regards he is right. But on others very contradictory. He mentions Katherina knows nothing about football but tries to paint the picture she was the one pulling the strings. That Cortese effectively did nothing. Which is of course a load of bull****.

So many other clubs have pumped millions into their teams, other chairman or executives have had to go to their owners and ask for money. He talks as if that is a sure fire way to succeed. Which it isn't. Others have spent far more and are doing far worse.

The difference is Cortese spent it on the right people at the right time. There have been very few duds brought in. Those decisions helped the club to get back to where it is. To try and make it sound easy is just silly. It was a poor article in my opinion.

[bpsaint]

I'm not the biggest fan of Martin Samuel, but that is a decent article. Sure puts a lot of perspective on the role NC had.

[mynameisthehulk]

Actually there is much debate as to whether being a sociopath makes you mentally unhealthy. Many consider it a strength or a superpower (or at least a sociopath would and would certainly not be offended since they are incapable of that emotion.)

 

Sh!t maybe I am a sociopath, call me one and lets see if am offended then we will know

 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[docker-p]

Funny how all the people come out to slag Cortese off now he has gone. Like that daily mail article. In some regards he is right. But on others very contradictory. He mentions Katherina knows nothing about football but tries to paint the picture she was the one pulling the strings. That Cortese effectively did nothing. Which is of course a load of bull****.

So many other clubs have pumped millions into their teams, other chairman or executives have had to go to their owners and ask for money. He talks as if that is a sure fire way to succeed. Which it isn't. Others have spent far more and are doing far worse.

The difference is Cortese spent it on the right people at the right time. There have been very few duds brought in. Those decisions helped the club to get back to where it is. To try and make it sound easy is just silly. It was a poor article in my opinion.

You are kidding right? I can count at least £35m wasted on players who don't play.

[Batman]

You are kidding right? I can count at least £35m wasted on players who don't play.

 

You now moaning about him backing his manager/transfer committee?

[stug76]

I agree with St Marco, it's not a good article. Cortese has changed everything about the club, he is responsible for our rise from league 1. I have only had one dealing with him, I supplied some items at St Mary's on the refurb and my total invoice was about £600 over 2 invoices and I know that Cortese himself had to sign off on the design of what we supplied - and these were probably the most insignificant items that went in to the whole project (very well made though ;-) ). He was the man driving our success.

 

I suspect he has returned a healthy profit on the original too. A lot of Chairman will have had 5 year plans and I doubt that many will have been so ambitious. Many will have failed, and some will have lowered their expectation, but only a few will have achieved what they set out to do. Southampton have been THE success story over the last 5 years, It's been wonderful to be a fan, certainly the best time in my 40+ years.

 

They guy isn't without his faults, certainly, but to suggest that he was only a middle man and all the credit should be applied to the owners a and managers is clearly way off the mark.

[Guided Missile]

But John, the response will be that on balance Cortese delivered more times than he failed and looking at the overall picture he has overseen the conversion of a "basket case" in to a "top flight" Club, and in the process put £££££s on the top line and £££££££s on its valuation.

Steve, as you know, the managers/players got us promoted and Sky/BT "put £££££s on the top line and £££££££s on its valuation." I would bet that the club is still sucking in Liebherr's money in both investment and covering ongoing losses. We don't know the management accounts, but I think we are still losing money hand over fist, until they sell a couple of youngsters at the end of the season. My advice to Katherina is to sell to an eccentric billionaire for £150M and get the hell out of Dodge. The owners rarely see a return and the downsides are massive.

[Mouldy Coat]

Good article in my opinion and very close to the truth....again IMO. However, gutted Cortese has gone. He was the driving force/ engine behind the wheel. It was so refreshing to have a CEO with that ambition....more than any of our previous chairmen put together. He was the link to the finances. I am aware of spates he has had with workmen, training ground, exec boxes, his own home in Chilworth and there is no smoke without fire and someone namely KL was paying for this. But love him or hate him, he was a ruthless negotiator and again it was refreshing being the 'little old Southampton', but not being pushed around.

[david in sweden]

Trying to read between the lines in the miles of newsprint already wasted on rumour and suggestion about NC.

 

but ..might Cortese's resignation also have something to do with the MALI Group dumping him as Director in the Autumn?..as it seems that he may have been serving out his period of notice since then ?

[John B]

In June we had a PL type club we a good reputation a good academy a loyal and large fanbase and a new Stadium but no money owing to a lack of investment in the Lowe years and before and financial mismangement by Wilde/Crouch

 

In July 2008 we got the missing ingredient money so it is not surprising that with the Club's back ground we are now a force to be reckoned with.

 

Although Cortese got praised for the rise of the club I am certain lots of people could have achieved the same success on the field without upsetting so many people within the club and the local community so I think the future is going to be bright but CL action off the agenda

[hypochondriac]

Sh!t maybe I am a sociopath, call me one and lets see if am offended then we will know

 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

The fact you are worrying about being a sociopath proves you aren't one. Sociopaths cannot feel worry.

[John B]

n June 2008 we had a PL type club we a good reputation a good academy a loyal and large fanbase and a new Stadium but no money owing to a lack of investment in the Lowe years and before and financial mismangement by Wilde/Crouch

 

In July 2008 we got the missing ingredient money so it is not surprising that with the Club's back ground we are now a force to be reckoned with.

 

Although Cortese got praised for the rise of the club I am certain lots of people could have achieved the same success on the field without upsetting so many people within the club and the local community so I think the future is going to be bright but CL action off the agenda

[OldNick]

Iam not against KL but I also feel that NC was superb for our club. What we have to remember is that it was NC who went to ML and persuaded him to get involved. If it was not for that we would be playing at Moneyfields now. Therefore his bad management practice (not in my eyes) was the reason we survived and we can now talk about finishing in the top half of the PL.

So many sit in the shadows with their petty grievances waiting for a downturn and then to come out spitting and snarling when the opportunity arises.

 

ML who we have the utmost respect chose NC to front the club, is he now seen to be a fool?

KL probably had no input of the purchase and running of the club until the passing of Marcus, only now she has taken control.

 

ML had a project that he put into place and expected NC to carry out, who IMO went on the crusade to do that for his friend. I vaguely recall Marcus' drive from his deathbed to go and see his friend and present him the watch. (cant remember the whole story ) ML had his faith in NC and therefore I side with that view.

I was not a victim of NC's ruthlessness except the ticket pricing, but understood that we need to raise money to get the club where it is.

 

I will always be thankful to NC for bringing the club from the depths to where we are now, I will of course give KL the time to show her qualities of leadership.

 

Good luck and i do hope you have the same drive and vision that your father had for this club

[The Kraken]

Iam not against KL...

Well, it started badly. Why on earth would any right minded individual be "against KL"?

[OldNick]

Well, it started badly. Why on earth would any right minded individual be "against KL"?

there seem to be quite a few who seem to be negative towards her

[The Kraken]

there seem to be quite a few who seem to be negative towards her

Like I said; why would any right minded individual be against her?

[Wes Tender]

You are kidding right? I can count at least £35m wasted on players who don't play.

 

I'm going to recommend Katharina Liebherr calls off her search for a chief executive, as we have an amply qualified candidate right here in Southampton. In docker-p we have somebody who not only knows the ins and outs of big business finance, but is also unerringly right about which players can be bought and immediately provide successful additions to the team, without any need to bed-in and gel with their team mates. And he will also become a local hero when he makes savings of £35 million by his inspired signings of the right players and then ploughs it back for the benefit of the fans via reduced ticket prices.

[TheCholulaKid]

there seem to be quite a few who seem to be negative towards her

 

Yep - there's a huge amount of tools on this forum.

[um pahars]

Steve, as you know, the managers/players got us promoted and Sky/BT "put £££££s on the top line and £££££££s on its valuation." I would bet that the club is still sucking in Liebherr's money in both investment and covering ongoing losses. We don't know the management accounts, but I think we are still losing money hand over fist, until they sell a couple of youngsters at the end of the season. My advice to Katherina is to sell to an eccentric billionaire for £150M and get the hell out of Dodge. The owners rarely see a return and the downsides are massive.

 

 

But in his defence (and I'm no sycophant), he appointed the managers (and sacked them) and provided the environment and steer in which they and the players operated. Of course he had substantial financial backing which certainly helped, but as we have seen many times in football, purely throwing money at the problem will not guarantee success.

 

 

I think it would be unfair to overlook his role in breathing life back in to the Club as I think he had a massive influence over the past 4 & a bit years. Certainly made easier with the backing he was given, certainly not irreplaceable and certainly not without his faults (many of which stem from the "ego problem" that somehow seems to afflict anyone who comes in to contact with a. Football club!!).

 

 

I purposely only put £££££££s on the top line, as like you I'm not sure what the bottom line is saying!!!! The millions in TV monies must help ease the pressures, but not sure what he's been spending to achieve the success!!!

 

 

As for selling on, it will be an interesting few months.

[Turkish]

But in his defence (and I'm no sycophant), he appointed the managers (and sacked them) and provided the environment and steer in which they and the players operated. Of course he had substantial financial backing which certainly helped, but as we have seen many times in football, purely throwing money at the problem will not guarantee success.

 

 

I think it would be unfair to overlook his role in breathing life back in to the Club as I think he had a massive influence over the past 4 & a bit years. Certainly made easier with the backing he was given, certainly not irreplaceable and certainly not without his faults (many of which stem from the "ego problem" that somehow seems to afflict anyone who comes in to contact with a. Football club!!).

 

 

I purposely only put £££££££s on the top line, as like you I'm not sure what the bottom line is saying!!!! The millions in TV monies must help ease the pressures, but not sure what he's been spending to achieve the success!!!

 

 

As for selling on, it will be an interesting few months.

 

Some people who remember your glory days c2007 might not agree with that.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2541553/Cortese-thought-star-Southampton-just-rich-familys-banker-Martin-Samuel.html

 

Martin Samuel, wasn't he Lowe's press puppet? Pretty sure he was.

[Kingsland Red]

I can see FFs stance here as I knew programme sellers who had worked at the club for years.

Strange autocratic decisions like the programme sellers, closure of the programme shop under the Chapel, charging car park fees for fans queuing for tickets,ticket tax,problems with the catering inside and outside the ground, and not paying contractors who renovated the suites in the summer before starting out in the Premier League can all be added to those issues already raised and were all accepted by the support, provided we kept progressing on match days.

[buctootim]

Martin Samuel, wasn't he Lowe's press puppet? Pretty sure he was.

 

180 degrees wrong Lowe sued Samuel for libel for a piece written when he was at the Times.

[ottery st mary]

Martin Samuel, wasn't he Lowe's press puppet? Pretty sure he was.

 

 

Charles Sale...Very close at school etc:p

[EastleighSoulBoy]

180 degrees wrong Lowe sued Samuel for libel for a piece written when he was at the Times.

 

Thanks, the guy I actually had in mind was:

 

Charles Sale...Very close at school etc:p

 

Thanks!

[Winnersaint]

Some people who remember your glory days c2007 might not agree with that.

 

Christ Turks how come you can remember that far back? I suppose you must have been a lurker then because I'm not sure I remember anyone posting under that moniker. Do recall some T W A T called Stu Romsey Saint from around that time but that's about it.

[Turkish]

Christ Turks how come you can remember that far back? I suppose you must have been a lurker then because I'm not sure I remember anyone posting under that moniker. Do recall some T W A T called Stu Romsey Saint from around that time but that's about it.

 

I had a different name then. Who could forget Um Pahars and his valiant attempts to be our fan on the board.

[Winnersaint]

I had a different name then. Who could forget Um Pahars and his valiant attempts to be our fan on the board.

 

Indeed

[NickG]

Christ Turks how come you can remember that far back? I suppose you must have been a lurker then because I'm not sure I remember anyone posting under that moniker. Do recall some T W A T called Stu Romsey Saint from around that time but that's about it.

 

He was embarrassing but amusing in a pathetic way. Always being disagreeable and moaning on every thread. Loved disrespecting other posters. Tried debating then his stubborn ill thought through views would get him into a corner.

 

Whatever happened to him?

 

Glad no-one replaced him

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[david in sweden]

Firstly,

I think Cortese's "resignation" was a knee-jerk reaction to KL removing him from the MALI Group 3 months ago. In financial terms, SFC was "small potatoes" compared to Mali's activities.

 

Now that he's gone, we will focus on FOUR people.

1- the new (KL appointee) for CEO. Will he pick up the Cortese blueprint and continue developing it (hopefully with kid gloves instead of an iron fist), or seek to impose his own agenda.?

 

2 -The Manager / Coach. On the face of it, many people see MP departing at the end of the season, which indeed he may do......UNLESS we can put together another 10 game run towards the end of the season, in which case he might be persuaded to stay (by more likable CEO).

Although, MP came in on NC's coat-tails, it could be an opportunity for him to become " his own man", unless NC takes up a similar CEO job at another top club, and lures him away.

 

3- Another manager (in the event of of MP's departure. We have to get this right the first time around - and a well-established candidate who is " squeaky-clean " in the footballing world.

 

4. An eventual new owner (should KL decide not to become a football fan real time). If it is to be one of the rich cronies that NC has been " courting ", he'll need £100+ million to buy the club in the first place (Abrahamovic-style) ..and then be willing to spend £30-40 million a year (in top foreign imports) to give the right kind support to the generations of future Academy graduates.

 

there is the scenario that we may not have seen the back of NC.

The spin-doctors have been working overtime to portray NC as " fighting to prevent KL selling the club" , whilst (apparantly) seeking out potential billionaires who would be able to do just that !

If so, having persuaded them to buy SFC (as he once did Markus L).... he'd want the chairman's job back in order to control everything again.

[vince]

Sky Sports just had Simon Jordon on in their transfer window bit. He said he'd dealt with NC and he was delighted with the business - sold us a player for £1.2m that he would have sold to others for 200K!!! Must have been referring to Jose Fonte. Whether you choose to believe Jordon or not is another matter, I guess.

[farawaysaint]

Sky Sports just had Simon Jordon on in their transfer window bit. He said he'd dealt with NC and he was delighted with the business - sold us a player for £1.2m that he would have sold to others for 200K!!! Must have been referring to Jose Fonte. Whether you choose to believe Jordon or not is another matter, I guess.

 

The same Fonte who's worth more than 1.2million ?

[vince]

The same Fonte who's worth more than 1.2million ?

 

The implication was that he would have sold for much less than we paid - what he is worth now is immaterial to that. It was just a different slant to the "drives a hard bargain" viewpoint, that's all.

[OldNick]

Sky Sports just had Simon Jordon on in their transfer window bit. He said he'd dealt with NC and he was delighted with the business - sold us a player for £1.2m that he would have sold to others for 200K!!! Must have been referring to Jose Fonte. Whether you choose to believe Jordon or not is another matter, I guess.

thanks I wondered who the player was. If it was Jose he was a bargain

[farawaysaint]

The implication was that he would have sold for much less than we paid - what he is worth now is immaterial to that. It was just a different slant to the "drives a hard bargain" viewpoint, that's all.

 

Highly rated by palace fans when sold though, if it had been for only 200k I think they would have rioted. I'm not criticising you, I just don't think Fonte for 1.2m was in any way a bad deal or more than he was worth at the time. We payed 1.2m for Wayne Thomas, now THAT was a bad deal.

[OldNick]

The implication was that he would have sold for much less than we paid - what he is worth now is immaterial to that. It was just a different slant to the "drives a hard bargain" viewpoint, that's all.

Or could show that Jordan could not value a player. I think a similar thing was said about us buying Perry Groves, i think Arsenal thought he was worth 75k and we offered 250 (?)

[trousers]

£200k may well have been the starting price for Fonte but at that price there would have been many clubs interested and a bidding war would have ensued, doubtless pushing up the price to the level that Cortese paid, if not higher. By going straight in at the higher 'market price' Cortese would have stolen a march on other clubs who were interested. So, it was possibly / probably a shrewd move...

[buctootim]

There has also been a lot of comment we overpaid for Wanyama and Ramirez

[angelman]

Wanyama - as Cardiff offered more/the same as we did, then maybe it wasn't too much or maybe we both offered too much. But ultimately it's not too much if you are happy paying the price.

[S-Clarke]

Wanyama - as Cardiff offered more/the same as we did, then maybe it wasn't too much or maybe we both offered too much. But ultimately it's not too much if you are happy paying the price.

 

It's not like he's not worth it. I think he's excellent, and if you have a look at what £12m buys you these days...then he's a really good signing for that price, given his age, potential and actual ability. Looking forward to having him back.