CORTESE - a personal and factual view of why Ms Liebherr was right.

[shurlock]

The current situation is fascinating from a number of perspectives, notwithstanding Duncan's particular angles and Hypo's "amateur psychologist" input - and yet, in some ways, adding a little credence to both of them. And I've been (and still am) a big Cortese supporter, while always recognizing that he seems to have some troubling flaws.

 

This leaves me with three interesting questions.

 

1) If the relationship between Katharina and Cortese had (supposedly) broken down "irretrievably", why did she (on her side's own admission) make him "very generous" offers to stay?

 

My hunch FWIW is that she has a very high regard for his strengths but was no longer willing to tolerate his weaknesses; she made those very generous offers to "sweeten the pill" of reduced total control. The fact that Cortese chose to walk suggests that he finds anything less than 100% control unacceptable, which - in and of itself - both confirms the widely-held perception that Cortese is a rather arrogant "control freak" and justifies the Liebherr decision to bring this to a head.

 

2) Why would Cortese turn down those offers?

 

I'd suggest that he either cannot accept the diminished control or thinks he can engineer his "perfect world" under another owner. No other owner - in their right business mind - would allow him unfettered control with a very big chunk of their money, so I'm inclined to think that he chose to reject the offer and walk away because his ego got the better of him. I can't imagine that he could fund the purchase himself.

 

3) If Katharine really wants to sell the Club, why would a very private woman with little knowledge of football decide to become personally involved in its operation - even if just from a high-level oversight position? After all, she can afford to hire the best talent in the world to oversee a sale which would respect her father's wishes for the club to have a bright future, and yet still be very distant from all the prying, media interest that would inevitably entail.

 

My hunch, again FWIW, is that she has a lot of respect for her father's wishes and plans to keep the club for the foreseeable future and continue building towards his dream. I can't think of any other reason why this private woman would throw herself into the teeth of a very public issue when she could have hired people to do that - and all the associated "dirty work". So far, Katharina has IMO conducted herself extremely well.

 

Still think Ben Smith and Henry Winter's explanation is closest to the mark, namely, that Liebherr wanted a sale at the end of the season (coincidentally, in line with the five years at the club) while Cortese preferred a more aggressive push to make us even more successful before selling up in the next two to three years. Each had fundamentally different conceptions of risk/reward, so a conflict was inevitable.

 

Liebherr probably asked Cortese to preside over a looming and even offered to line his palm with more trinkets and treasures to do so. But Cortese didn't want to do her bidding and quit.

 

If true, this isn't about a perfect world or 100% control but a pretty major encroachment on how Cortese, at least, understood his role and job spec.

Edited 17 January, 2014 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

The current situation is fascinating from a number of perspectives, notwithstanding Duncan's particular angles and Hypo's "amateur psychologist" input - and yet, in some ways, adding a little credence to both of them. And I've been (and still am) a big Cortese supporter, while always recognizing that he seems to have some troubling flaws.

 

This leaves me with three interesting questions.

 

1) If the relationship between Katharina and Cortese had (supposedly) broken down "irretrievably", why did she (on her side's own admission) make him "very generous" offers to stay?

 

My hunch FWIW is that she has a very high regard for his strengths but was no longer willing to tolerate his weaknesses; she made those very generous offers to "sweeten the pill" of reduced total control. The fact that Cortese chose to walk suggests that he finds anything less than 100% control unacceptable, which - in and of itself - both confirms the widely-held perception that Cortese is a rather arrogant "control freak" and justifies the Liebherr decision to bring this to a head.

 

2) Why would Cortese turn down those offers?

 

I'd suggest that he either cannot accept the diminished control or thinks he can engineer his "perfect world" under another owner. No other owner - in their right business mind - would allow him unfettered control with a very big chunk of their money, so I'm inclined to think that he chose to reject the offer and walk away because his ego got the better of him. I can't imagine that he could fund the purchase himself.

 

3) If Katharine really wants to sell the Club, why would a very private woman with little knowledge of football decide to become personally involved in its operation - even if just from a high-level oversight position? After all, she can afford to hire the best talent in the world to oversee a sale which would respect her father's wishes for the club to have a bright future, and yet still be very distant from all the prying, media interest that would inevitably entail.

 

My hunch, again FWIW, is that she has a lot of respect for her father's wishes and plans to keep the club for the foreseeable future and continue building towards his dream. I can't think of any other reason why this private woman would throw herself into the teeth of a very public issue when she could have hired people to do that - and all the associated "dirty work". So far, Katharina has IMO conducted herself extremely well.

 

I'm very much in accord with these views. I just get the impression that Cortese's ego got the better of him. The control freak side of him has produced very positive results on the pitch, but doesn't appear to be conducive to good business practice when it comes to dealing with the Corporate clients, the fans or the Media/PR side of things.

[Window Cleaner]

Because of course every signing comes off doesn't it!

 

 

I wouldn't even bother replying to all of the petty grievances being aired here if I were you, you'll be here all week. some people seem to attach far more importance to a striped shirt than they do to the progress made in 4 and a half years.

[Wes Tender]

Still think Ben Smith and Henry Winter's explanation is closest to the mark, namely, that Liebherr wanted a sale at the end of the season whil Cortese preferred a more aggressive push to make us even more successful before selling up in the next two to three years. Each had fundamentally different conceptions of risk/reward, so a conflict was inevitable.

 

Liebherr probably asked Cortese to preside over this process and even offered to line his palm with more trinkets and treasures to do so. But Cortese didn't want to do her bidding and quit.

 

If true, this isn't about a perfect world or 100% control but a pretty major encroachment on how Cortese, at least, understood his role and job spec.

 

So who to believe? Cortese's tame puppets in the media, or Katharina's PR people? I find myself leaning towards her people, because that will have been firmly based on what she instructed them to say, whereas the media can put their own spin on a story to sensationalise it.

[John B]

Bloody Hell Wes I think this is your best post over the last few years totally agree with you NC did really well with results on the field but could have done so much better if he had shown "good business practice when it comes to dealing with the Corporate clients, the fans or the Media/PR side of things"

[Window Cleaner]

So who to believe? Cortese's tame puppets in the media, or Katharina's PR people? I find myself leaning towards her people, because that will have been firmly based on what she instructed them to say, whereas the media can put their own spin on a story to sensationalise it.

 

 

Time only will tell, I personally expect us to be sold off to the highest bidder as soon as possible but that's just a personal intuition based on the fact that everything else that Markus built and owned seems to have been liquidated.

[CanadaSaint]

Still think Ben Smith and Henry Winter's explanation is closest to the mark, namely, that Liebherr wanted a sale at the end of the season whil Cortese preferred a more aggressive push to make us even more successful before selling up in the next two to three years. Each had fundamentally different conceptions of risk/reward, so a conflict was inevitable.

 

Liebherr probably asked Cortese to preside over this process and even offered to line his palm with more trinkets and treasures to do so. But Cortese didn't want to do her bidding and quit.

 

If true, this isn't about a perfect world or 100% control but a pretty major encroachment on how Cortese, at least, understood his role and job spec.

 

You could be right but I don't think the two potential explanations are mutually exclusive.

 

The choices for the Liebherrs back in the Summer could have been 1) maintaining the status quo (carrying on owning the club with an unfettered Cortese in control), 2) selling the club - with an unfettered Cortese at the helm of it, and 3) confronting the Cortese situation and retaining the club.

 

Back then they might have opted for 2) because grasping the Cortese nettle (amidst an inevitable public furor) didn't appeal to them. For whatever reason (perhaps a concern that her father's wishes would be lost in a sale), they switched to option 3).

 

Yes - it's possible that they felt that Cortese had to either go or be "reined in" in order to make the club more salable, but I don't think so, because the key question for me is why the intensely private Katharina would now opt to inject herself into the situation when she could have paid people to do that if she just wanted to sell the club.

[shurlock]

So who to believe? Cortese's tame puppets in the media, or Katharina's PR people? I find myself leaning towards her people, because that will have been firmly based on what she instructed them to say, whereas the media can put their own spin on a story to sensationalise it.

 

Henry Winter isn't a tame puppet - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/9813415/Henry-Winter-even-rich-owners-like-Nicola-Cortese-and-Roman-Abramovich-need-the-fans.html

 

There are the shills at the Mail for that kind of hatchet job whose tone and treatment of the fallout have been very different. Indeed, its odd that you would even interpret that a journo suggesting KL wants to sell up is somehow a slur or exercise in the black arts.

[Ohio Saint]

Another speculation, just for fun. Saints could be kept ticking along until it becomes a 21st birthday present for a young fan.

[Window Cleaner]

I think basically to know where we are you'd need to go into all of the trials and tribulations of the Mali International Group because the answer lies there within. Something changed with all of that between August and October of last year. Unless you can get all of the facts and figures of the group as a whole you cannot possibly begin to understand the situation between the owner and Southampton FC. Is it just a simple case of end of probate, did Markus's will say that NC and the other chap have to administer everything until it was all done and dusted. No-one can possibly know that with some serious research into some obscure domains.

[um pahars]

I wonder if you would sympathise with NC if you knew that he upset a major sponsor in hospitality so much that they told the club they would never sponsor the club again, while he was in charge. It only amounted to the loss of £200K a year, but considering the global brand involved, Jeez.

 

Let's put it this way, NC will not be getting a PS4 as a leaving present.

 

Tip to the iceberg...

 

But John, the response will be that on balance Cortese delivered more times than he failed and looking at the overall picture he has overseen the conversion of a "basket case" in to a "top flight" Club, and in the process put £££££s on the top line and £££££££s on its valuation.

 

Now of course the financial backing he was able to call on helped, but that in itself did not guarantee success.

 

Personally speaking, I never saw the issues we are talking about as being mutually exclusive as would like to think that you you can run the Club in an effective and efficient manner as well as being true to your customers, supporters and suppliers.

 

But others would argue a few noses out of joint, some hard nosed dealings and a win at all costs mentality is a price worth paying for the transformation in fortunes of our Club.

[Greenridge]

I'm sure with FF's track record he'll fall out with the new CEO sooner or later....

 

It's difficult to read FF's posts with objectivity and balance as there is always a huge bias lurking in the background.

[doggface]

We will never find out the whole truth obviously. I support KL as of now but respect and disrespect cortese in equal measures.

 

surprised many are questioning if we are for sale. IMO it is a near certainty but kl will not bash down the castle before giving up the keys for a pricely sum this summer.

[shurlock]

You could be right but I don't think the two potential explanations are mutually exclusive.

 

The choices for the Liebherrs back in the Summer could have been 1) maintaining the status quo (carrying on owning the club with an unfettered Cortese in control), 2) selling the club - with an unfettered Cortese at the helm of it, and 3) confronting the Cortese situation and retaining the club.

 

Back then they might have opted for 2) because grasping the Cortese nettle (amidst an inevitable public furor) didn't appeal to them. For whatever reason (perhaps a concern that her father's wishes would be lost in a sale), they switched to option 3).

 

Yes - it's possible that they felt that Cortese had to either go or be "reined in" in order to make the club more salable, but I don't think so, because the key question for me is why the intensely private Katharina would now opt to inject herself into the situation when she could have paid people to do that if she just wanted to sell the club.

 

Not saying that Cortese had to be reined to make the club more salable - rather he believed that he would be at the helm for a further period (note that this season marks the end of the five year plan), so he could carry out the next stage of our expansion -something on which he sought clarity in the summer and believed he had got from KL.

 

Alas the issue wasn't fully resolved and Cortese sensed control over the long-term direction of the club slipping away and decided to walk.

 

I dont think KL has opted to inject herself into the situation but has her hand forced by Cortese and, as owner with whom the buck ultimately stops, cannot avoid a degree of unwanted publicity (tbf she's done pretty good job of keeping a low profile even during this period).

 

Having been blindsided by events, she will now pay people and they will prepare the club for sale in the summer.

 

If we are indeed sold in the summer -its now in everyone's interest we finish the season as strongly as possible (i.e. not selling anyone in the short-term)- it will go a long towards showing that this version of events is correct. After all, its difficult to imagine Cortese wanting to be part of such a process.

Edited 17 January, 2014 by shurlock

[EastleighSoulBoy]

KL is perfectly entitled to sell her company if she so wishes. Surely NC would have been better off working through such a situation, helping get the best deal for his 'project', and getting a payoff from the new owners if deemed to be surplus to requirements. ( Assuming the premise of the quote is true ).

 

Which leaves me wondering where the much vaunted 'Plan B or Plan C' was. Surely if KL wanted to sell and NC wanted continuity, with the club's best interests at heart, he would have called up Plan B or C? Maybe he walked because she wants too much, by his reckoning, with him in situ, for the club. Maybe he seeks to drop the value by walking and then returning with Plan B, an offer which he feels she will accept? I think there's a lot to play in this saga.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Ted Bates achieved plenty, lots of people liked him too.

 

Yes, and I respect Ted.

[holepuncture]

Cortese in my opinion was a classic sociopath. The problem is that there is nothing more dangerous than a sociopath with power and so it has proved. It always ends in tears. It's why he didn't care about the club, only himself and why he was described as charming and charismatic but also ruthless and impulsive.

 

Eh? One of the main traits of a sociopath is being charismatic and popular on the surface. A high percentage of them are tend to be leaders and heads of organisations. Read the descriptions in that book and tell me it doesn't sound exactly like nicola. What do you reckon he would score on hare's psychopathy test? Grandiose sense of self worth, charisma, charm, ruthlessness! It's all there.

 

He might be, there are indeed a disproportionate number of sociopaths at the top!

 

Regardless, he did an outstanding job at SFC overall IMO.

[SW5 SAINT]

Another speculation, just for fun. Saints could be kept ticking along until it becomes a 21st birthday present for a young fan.

 

Let's they make it an 18th birthday present……….

[CanadaSaint]

Not saying that Cortese had to be reined to make the club more salable - rather he believed that he would be at the helm for a further period (note that this season marks the end of the five year plan), so he could carry out the next stage of our expansion -something on which he sought clarity in the summer and believed he had got from KL.

 

Alas the issue wasn't fully resolved and Cortese sensed control over the long-term direction of the club slipping away and decided to walk.

 

I dont think KL has opted to inject herself into the situation but has her hand forced by Cortese and, as owner with whom the buck ultimately stops, cannot avoid a degree of unwanted publicity (tbf she's done pretty good job of keeping a low profile even during this period).

 

Having been blindsided by events, she will now pay people and they will prepare the club for sale in the summer.

 

If we are indeed sold in the summer -its now in everyone's interest we finish the season as strongly as possible (i.e. not selling anyone in the short-term)- it will go a long towards showing that this version of events is correct. After all, its difficult to imagine Cortese wanting to be part of such a process.

 

I can't disagree with much that you've said because none of us knows what's really going on back there.

 

However, perhaps I didn't articulate my point about Katharina well enough. When I say that Katharina opted "to inject herself into the situation", I meant it in the personal context. Certainly I can understand why she felt that she needed to act and - yes - I can appreciate that her hand may well have been forced. What I can't understand is why she would choose to become involved personally and publicly when she has always shied away from any kind of public involvement, and when she can afford to hire the world's very best to do all of that high profile (and often unpleasant) stuff for her. The only explanation I can come up with - when so many signals are pointing towards a sale - is that she doesn't intend to sell and is anxious to see her father's wishes honoured.

 

Time will tell, and we'll be able to read things a little better when we see what kind of person is hired to replace Cortese.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

The points Duncan makes on here are, as per usual with this noted contributer, most insightful and they seem to 'ring true'. Nevertheless, whether we happened to like him or not, I think we can safely say that Nicola Cortese played a crucial role in this club's recovery from near dissolution back in the dark days of 2009. For that at least he has earned a honorable place in this club's long history. I must also add that, like many other fans, I instinctively don't much like the current level of uncertainty surrounding the club, although as long suffering Saints fans we really should be used to it by now I suppose.

 

However looking back on the extraordinary events of last summer when Cortese virtually threatened to sack the owner and walk out on the club (with MP in his pocket) if he didn't get his own way ... well that would surely be regarded as unacceptable behavior from the chief executive of any serious business would it not? The timing is certainly a shock to the system, but perhaps he had to go sooner or later.

 

I've said it many times before and will risk boring the forum by restating it now, the Cortese dream of transforming this middle sized regional football club into a regular Champions League contender was always bound to end in tears one day. Organizations, just like individuals, who try to be something they are not are headed for trouble. Indeed, chasing that particular 'dragon' would probably have proved to be the ruin of the club in the long term, just like a similar display of ego driven insanity was the ruin of Leeds Utd under Peter Risdale.

 

As for the future, I think the manager will not long outlast this season and SFC will likely be sold to a wealthy (probably foreign) investor within the next year or so as I can't see the (rather disinterested to be frank) Liebherr family wanting to risk the substantial investment they have already made in the club when the returns on offer are so low. So then our course is set for uncharted waters yet again, and the only thing we fans can be assured of is that come-what-may this club's future is unlikely to be a dull one.

[Andy Durman]

Still think Ben Smith and Henry Winter's explanation is closest to the mark, namely, that Liebherr wanted a sale at the end of the season (coincidentally, in line with the five years at the club) while Cortese preferred a more aggressive push to make us even more successful before selling up in the next two to three years. Each had fundamentally different conceptions of risk/reward, so a conflict was inevitable.

 

Liebherr probably asked Cortese to preside over a looming and even offered to line his palm with more trinkets and treasures to do so. But Cortese didn't want to do her bidding and quit.

 

If true, this isn't about a perfect world or 100% control but a pretty major encroachment on how Cortese, at least, understood his role and job spec.

 

Pure speculation (stirring!)

[Saint Fan CaM]

I think there's far too many people trying to put a spin on this that actually doesn't exist.

 

FACT - KL has publicly stated that she tried to keep Cortese in place right until the last minute. This was no sacking.

FACT - Cortese was more than just a business contact to Marcus...they were close friends and I would imagine that his family including KL have known of Cortese for quite sometime.

FACT - Cortese had been working notice for some months, but was still in situ...not on garden leave. That tends to suggest to me that KL trusted him completely and that despite possible wishes to change the corporate governance of the business, there was no ill-feeling between the two.

 

So yes, the OP has revealed a personal case where Cortese has not agreed with his POV. So what? As Duncan has so rightly said - it's peanuts in the grand scheme - but actually more to the point, it has zilch to do with Cortese leaving the club. These people live and operate in a different world to nearly every forum member (including myself) I would suggest...one that many it would seem do not understand. It would not surprise me to find KL hosting a dinner party for the Cortese family over the weekend frankly.

[chi saint]

Going with the theme of one man running a club of our size. It might well turn out to be an interesting few months when the new boss gets her people in and start to look at how things were run and whether the 'business' element of the club is on a sound footing!

[exit2]

There has been a lot of money leaving the club without revenue coming in. Now what was expected from KL is unknown but we do know the Liebherr family all over is very switched on financially. They have seen a lot of investment and spending, with returns just being share equity, now is that good enough for them????? Whether you love him or hate him, Cortese has done wonders for this club you dont get to be one of the worlds top financial brokers with out upsetting a few people on the way and that is something he has done at all levels, fans, staff, sponsors, suppliers and quite frequently ! About 3 months a guy called Marcel Werner Hehlihe (another Liebherr side kick), came to the club watching and trying to patch up relationships with sponsors etc and now we have learned the ex saints. Now from other reports in the press, it seems NC was wanted by KL to stay, and he has been working his notice as such so I guess any ill feeling he would have been gone ages ago. Accountability is massive in big business and a common practice and with Cortese basically Chairman and Chief Exec he occupied both those role and therefore had 100% autonomy, something that is not liked especially if the company is owned by someone else

[Leicestersaint]

Nick, you say he likes to take people to court, well that is the point, it never happens, he threatens and bullies but then settles before it reaches court, costing the club money. My post might be self-indulgent but the fans need to realise why Ms Liebherr intervened. Literally one minute after I posted this a senior ex employee contacted me to confirm all I said and more. Yes this person may have an agenda but they are happily re-employed and doing well. NC did very well in doing what he did on the pitch for Saints but he simply had too much power in my opinion and ultimately that is never a good thing.

 

I find the original post very helpful and worthwhile - this story provides considerable insight and confirms other stories that I have heard. Katharina is wresting control back and now that NC has gone KL will hopefully reassert some decent values and steer Saints in the right direction. I expect great things under her new regime.

[Saint Billy]

Great to see some old posters return to add a little spice once again.

 

As far as Cortese is concerned, can't it be so simple as, he has found new buyers, cannot remain ceo of present company for obvious reasons, KL takes temporary charge until buyout is complete, MP remains manager and continues when Cortese returns, job done.

 

Best not to witch hunt Don Cortese, he might be back.

[solentstars]

There has been a lot of money leaving the club without revenue coming in. Now what was expected from KL is unknown but we do know the Liebherr family all over is very switched on financially. They have seen a lot of investment and spending, with returns just being share equity, now is that good enough for them????? Whether you love him or hate him, Cortese has done wonders for this club you dont get to be one of the worlds top financial brokers with out upsetting a few people on the way and that is something he has done at all levels, fans, staff, sponsors, suppliers and quite frequently ! About 3 months a guy called Marcel Werner Hehlihe (another Liebherr side kick), came to the club watching and trying to patch up relationships with sponsors etc and now we have learned the ex saints. Now from other reports in the press, it seems NC was wanted by KL to stay, and he has been working his notice as such so I guess any ill feeling he would have been gone ages ago. Accountability is massive in big business and a common practice and with Cortese basically Chairman and Chief Exec he occupied both those role and therefore had 100% autonomy, something that is not liked especially if the company is owned by someone else

good post an summary no one can afford to chuck away the owners money because of cortese autocratic ways.

[View From The Top]

Personally I thought the man an utter c**t but like most fickle fans, was prepared to bend over and take it if it meant success.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

The points Duncan makes on here are, as per usual with this noted contributer, most insightful and they seem to 'ring true'. Nevertheless, whether we happened to like him or not, I think we can safely say that Nicola Cortese played a crucial role in this club's recovery from near dissolution back in the dark days of 2009. For that at least he has earned a honorable place in this club's long history. I must also add that, like many other fans, I instinctively don't much like the current level of uncertainty surrounding the club, although as long suffering Saints fans we really should be used to it by now I suppose.

 

However looking back on the extraordinary events of last summer when Cortese virtually threatened to sack the owner and walk out on the club (with MP in his pocket) if he didn't get his own way ... well that would surely be regarded as unacceptable behavior from the chief executive of any serious business would it not? The timing is certainly a shock to the system, but perhaps he had to go sooner or later.

 

I've said it many times before and will risk boring the forum by restating it now, the Cortese dream of transforming this middle sized regional football club into a regular Champions League contender was always bound to end in tears one day. Organizations, just like individuals, who try to be something they are not are headed for trouble. Indeed, chasing that particular 'dragon' would probably have proved to be the ruin of the club in the long term, just like a similar display of ego driven insanity was the ruin of Leeds Utd under Peter Risdale.

 

As for the future, I think the manager will not long outlast this season and SFC will likely be sold to a wealthy (probably foreign) investor within the next year or so as I can't see the (rather disinterested to be frank) Liebherr family wanting to risk the substantial investment they have already made in the club when the returns on offer are so low. So then our course is set for uncharted waters yet again, and the only thing we fans can be assured of is that come-what-may this club's future is unlikely to be a dull one.

 

As usual wise words Chapel End Charlie. I know I am accused of having an agenda but for the record I have got to say, by and large, before the book business I was pretty much behind NC if only for the fact he put my football club back on the map and then some. But I did feel very let down re the book ban and I challenge anyone else who found themselves in a similar position not to be a little hacked off and yes, a tad bitter that many years of work and a considerable financial outlay was jeopardised.

 

I realised if he treated me like that (and it was nothing of my own making) then what else was he up to. He shafted Hagiology out of petty spite so I make no apologies tonight for a) explaining what happened and b) letting people know I think the man actually to be a bit of an arse, no matter how brilliant his business acumen is (or was).

 

I also make no apologies for what I said about Lowe as eventually my accusations over his egotism proved right despite what diehard Lowe luvvies like Once Bitterne would have you believe. Tbh give me Lowe any day, he did actually have some redeeming features, he at least treated his staff well. It seems Saints are unlucky in that two of our recent chairmen have turned out to be flawed in fatal ways and have had to step aside. Let's just hope our next messiah does not fall into the same category but it seems anyone who runs or owns a football club these days is of a certain breed.

[doddisalegend]

Personally I thought the man an utter c**t but like most fickle fans, was prepared to bend over and take it if it meant success.

 

That's the truth of it. Apart from a group of posters on here I never got the feeling NC was that popular with saints fans I talked to else where. Personally I thought he came across as a bit of a nob jockey and quite a few things the club have done didn't sit well with me. Truth is though that nobody (including me) was that bothered while things were going well on the pitch.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Personally I thought the man an utter c**t but like most fickle fans, was prepared to bend over and take it if it meant success.

 

This is one of the most refreshing posts on this thread. If our club is being successful we are all - to various degrees - fickle. You only have to note the NC appreciation thread is struggling to clear two pages.

[Patrick Bateman]

Personally I thought the man an utter c**t but like most fickle fans, was prepared to bend over and take it if it meant success.

 

I don't think many would disagree with you.

 

That's what I love about football fans; the fickleness.

"One Jerry Edwards"

[Turkish]

That's the truth of it. Apart from a group of posters on here I never got the feeling NC was that popular with saints fans I talked to else where. Personally I thought he came across as a bit of a nob jockey and quite a few things the club have done didn't sit well with me. Truth is though that nobody (including me) was that bothered while things were going well on the pitch.

 

Most people I know who go to games didn't care. He was the chairman, a suit in the stands, it's only from behind people's keyboards he appears to have become some god like figure who is irreplaceable.

[exit2]

"One Jerry Edwards"

 

made me laugh

[S-Clarke]

A lot of this rings true FF. For one, I'm fully grateful for what he did for us, he was the driving force for the purchase and the continued success over the past few years - but there were many parts of him which were far from perfect. The banning of MLT/Echo/national papers all ring loud and clear, and he wasn't the easiest person to deal with - to say the least!

[mynameisthehulk]

I don't think anyone can argue that what KL has done is unreasonable, no matter what the context behind the decision - it is after all her money and she owns the football club so that is that. It does not mean that everyone has to like it and it certainly should not mean that people who think it is a cause for concern and question her motives are wetting the bed. They might be wrong and let us hope that is the case but it is entirely understandable that a number of people would react to this with trepidation because it is yet another step into the unknown. The revisionist bullsh!t being written by some about Lowe though is a joke, and not a very funny one - being peddled by people who were either big chums with him or who have very short memories. To suggest that a man who presided over our relegation and administration had more success in running the club than a man who took us from -10 in League One to the top half of the Premier League in 5 years is simply absurd! I don't have a personal agenda and I hope to God that the situation works out and KL either looks after the club well herself or sells it to someone who will but I have grave doubts about that at present.

 

On another subject why is it ok to call NC a sociopath (conjecture for a start and an insult based on a suggestion around someone's mental health) but not ok to call KL a salad dodger (which is fundamentally a fact, although not a particularly nice one)

[um pahars]

I don't think many would disagree with you.

 

That's what I love about football fans; the fickleness.

"One Jerry Edwards"

 

He's on fecking drugs, and I don't mean speed, but hang on he's only gone and won us a free kick.

[Bucks Saint]

Best not to witch hunt Don Cortese, he might be back.

 

I am not saying I will, but I might witch hunt with the best of them. If i do, I am not worried at all if he comes back or not. I am just a season ticket holder. Its not like he knows where I live is it? Oh, wait..

[Chez]

Most people I know who go to games didn't care. He was the chairman, a suit in the stands, it's only from behind people's keyboards he appears to have become some god like figure who is irreplaceable.

 

And by the same accord, Le tiss group apart, i think it was behind keyboards where his biggest detractors could be found too. Fans that just go to games simply do not give a toss about all these things we discuss,they just care about seeing us win on a Saturday. Each to their own, but I like the soap opera intrinsically analysed detail of it all on here.

[Chez]

I am not saying I will, but I might witch hunt with the best of them. If i do, I am not worried at all if he comes back or not. I am just a season ticket holder. Its not like he knows where I live is it? Oh, wait..

 

Talking of which is nick illingsworth allowed back in the ground these days? How Cortese treated him was disgusting and the point at which I could not give a toss if Cortese was our chairman or not.

[shurlock]

And by the same accord, Le tiss group apart, i think it was behind keyboards where his biggest detractors could be found too. Fans that just go to games simply do not give a toss about all these things we discuss,they just care about seeing us win on a Saturday. Each to their own, but I like the soap opera intrinsically analysed detail of it all on here.

 

What are odds that those who go to Sunderland tmrw sing his name (like our support has done on countless occasions)?

[Chez]

What are odds that those who go to Sunderland tmrw sing his name (like our support has done on countless occasions)?

 

You wouldn't catch me singing that song during our best moments never mind now. Each to their own.

[Grey Crab]

At what point in this thread are we going to get the promised 'factual' view of why Ms Liebherr was right?

[The Kraken]

You wouldn't catch me singing that song during our best moments never mind now. Each to their own.

Quite right too. Cringeworthy nonsense.

[shurlock]

You wouldn't catch me singing that song during our best moments never mind now. Each to their own.

 

Not my question - asked if you thought it would be sung tmrw. I mean if you just read the mboard, you would think that it was never sung.

[Olallana]

What are odds that those who go to Sunderland tmrw sing his name (like our support has done on countless occasions)?

 

Odds on any player having a prepared shirt to show if he scores?

[shurlock]

Odds on any player having a prepared shirt to show if he scores?

 

Think I'll stick

[Chez]

Not my question - asked if you thought it would be sung tmrw. I mean if you just read the mboard, you would think that it was never sung.

 

Probably, but as I have said on here, it's only really forum users that actually analyse what a **** cortese might have been, the common or garden fan just cares about the results, which have been great, and cortese must take his share of the praise for them. Hence no reluctance from some to sing his ****ty song.

[Badger]

Good and interesting read FF.

 

Supports a view and fear I've had for some time over the way things have been run. I hope KL is not looking to sell on, as the Liebherrs appear decent and respectable, rare features in club owners/executives.

[trousers]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2541553/Cortese-thought-star-Southampton-just-rich-familys-banker-Martin-Samuel.html

 

MARTIN SAMUEL - Cortese thought he was the star at Southampton but he was just a rich family's banker

Edited 17 January, 2014 by trousers