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PS4 or XBOX One

Batman

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pap

pap

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Both consoles are selling well enough to have a critical mass. Neither will be left behind and your "port" point is far less relevant than in the pass as both are on x86 architecture.

 

My "why does it matter " question was aimed at you Pap. I don't know you from Adam but, reading this thread, it appears you won't rest until people agree with you.

 

But the point is, some people won't, because for them the Xbox suits them better. Both will be successful.

 

Personally I think the media aspects of Xbox will give it broader, longer lasting appeal but that PS4 will sell more in Yr 1 (not least because it's cheaper and hardcore gamers are likely to be younger, less affluent).

 

Remember though that gamers are a small percentage of potential consumers, the prize MS are after is much, much bigger.

 

Hey Alain. The port question is relevant because of the already apparent difference between the underlying horsepower. Just today, Eurogamer have done another direct comparison between a multi-platform game, Tomb Raider : The Definitive Edition.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-tomb-raider-definitive-performance-analysis

 

It's another example of same game faring worse on XBox One hardware. The wags over at NeoGAF have already produced this little beauty:-

 

hHcleJY.jpg

 

It's childish and puerile, but it wouldn't be possible without the emerging pattern of multi-platform games performing better on PS4. The processor architecture is but one factor. Taking your example back to the 1980s, ports between the Amstrad and Sinclair Spectrum should have been of equal fidelity. Both used the Zilog Z80, but anyone who remembers both machines know that other hardware made the difference. Same thing with BBC Micro vs C64 (6502), Atari ST and Amiga (68000). Same thing applies here. Other hardware is making the difference. The PS4 always had faster RAM; which is making a difference - but the most worrying thing for One owners is that several developers have been complaining about a bottleneck on the One. This article is extremely techy but worth a skim. Long-term, it may not be a problem. The PS3 had similar problems which were eventually, mostly overcome by smart devs.

 

http://www.redgamingtech.com/xbox-one-esram-720p-why-its-causing-a-resolution-bottleneck-analysis/

 

I'm getting a little bored with the "won't rest until people agree with me" motif. It's a completely false reading of the situation. I expect to be permanently irreconcilable with Nolan et al throughout, or whenever he buys a PS4. I'm not seeking his agreement; I'm enjoying debating with him and where he's been right, I've agreed with him. He hasn't been often been right; I'm still waiting for his answer on why it will be interesting when the One is released in the remaining countries.

 

I think the One will do well in North America, but the concept is broken over here and Microsoft haven't even acknowledged the issue exists. i genuinely feel like some proper whoppers are being spun by the XBox One apologists on here, and if someone really is wondering which console to buy, such glaring inaccuracies shouldn't be allowed to stand.

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Alain Perrin

Alain Perrin

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Sadly Pap, talk of glaring inaccuracies, proper whoppers and apologists hardly paints you as someone with a balanced view. Instead it smacks of fanboi-ism, desperate for your horse to win.

 

Sure a port between x86 isn't a lift and shift, but it's far easier than platforms with nothing in common. Even more interesting is the commonality between PC and Xbox that brings in another angle. I think both machines will have their fair share of leads and ports (it's marketing dollars rather than tech that decides that).

 

Yes the PS4 has more grunt, most specifically because of faster RAM and CPU cycle retention for Kinect. Personally, I struggle to notice as to how it makes that much of a difference (I liken frame rate discussions to audiophiles discussing the difference between bitrates - the difference at the top end is imperceptible except in imagination). The example you gave is of a artificially capped frame rate (a developer decision), in reality the difference will be unnoticeable to most.

 

The Xbox One also isn't broken outside of North America, the 50/60hz TV issue is sub optimal (but fixable by software) and to me only noticeable on scrolling text. To suggest "broken" is disingenuous.

 

Much as fanbois (from both) sides will disect framerates etc., the true picture will only emerge in a couple of years when both machines are being max'd out. At the moment they're just being tickled.

 

Both are great machines.

 

 

Sent from my RM-821_eu_euro1_276 using Board Express

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pap

pap

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Heh. Who said the PS4 was my horse? Main is a PC, and as I've said numerous times on this thread before, have at least one of every preceding major console. I'd buy an XBox One if it were worth the money. I could go down and buy one today. Why do you think I haven't?

 

Since you're euphemistically calling me a liar, perhaps you'd like to say why TV integration isn't broken? The whole point of TV integration was the seamless stitching together of your games and media. There is no easy fix to turn 50 frames into 60 frames. The only option I see that is open to Microsoft is some kind of "fast switch" 0between 50 and 60Hz. Even then, it won't be "fixed". TV is broken at 60Hz and many games will be broken at 50Hz (the refresh rate you need for PAL TV).

 

It's a great machine in North America, but a rip-off here.

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Alain Perrin

Alain Perrin

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Heh. Who said the PS4 was my horse? Main is a PC, and as I've said numerous times on this thread before, have at least one of every preceding major console. I'd buy an XBox One if it were worth the money. I could go down and buy one today. Why do you think I haven't?

 

Since you're euphemistically calling me a liar, perhaps you'd like to say why TV integration isn't broken? The whole point of TV integration was the seamless stitching together of your games and media. There is no easy fix to turn 50 frames into 60 frames. The only option I see that is open to Microsoft is some kind of "fast switch" 0between 50 and 60Hz. Even then, it won't be "fixed". TV is broken at 60Hz and many games will be broken at 50Hz (the refresh rate you need for PAL TV).

 

It's a great machine in North America, but a rip-off here.

 

Trust me Pap, if I wanted to call you a liar I would do - I don't think that - but I do think you are taking a very one-sided position.

 

The TV is not broken. It works. As you haven't bought an Xbox you won't have seen the issue in real world use but it certainly isn't broken. My family has been running the TV through it since a week after launch and, trust me, if it were "broken" I'd know (you don't get between my wife and Eastenders without knowing about it!). Yes, if you watch Sky Sports News 24/7 I expect the ticker would judder would irritate, otherwise in normal programming I struggle to see any difference (in fact the only time I notice it is during the credits at the end of a show). Although it's there in footbal, I struggle to even notice it on anything but the fastest plays. So if you watch tickers or fast sport, it's temporarily sub optimal - not broken.

 

To be honest, I doubt MS would have even known about the issue ahead of launch as it's not the kind of thing that would have emerged in cursory regional testing or UK pre-sales demos because it's not obvious. As it is, MS will fix in an update shortly and in reality a fast switch will be no more disruptive than changing channels (a fairly common behaviour on TV). Where MS's vision is to have side by side display (eg. App plus TV), if I were them I would auto set the refresh rate to the dominant pane (ie. 60hz if game, 50hz if UK TV - anyone who'd notice the issue in a small side bar would be superhuman!).

 

To your point about value for money, personally I don't think either console is at the moment, so both could be described as a rip off. They won't be valued until a raft of next gen only, optimised games appear and then you'll see the true adoption rates shake out. Even then the gap between the this gen and the last gen isn't as great because there's only so far you can go with graphical fidelity.

 

What I would say about the Xbox is that, even without the media guide, the TV integration aspects of Xbox are cool, both from voice control (even though that's patchy it still brings a smile to my face) and the multitasking elements (being able to switch game -> TV and back again is very useful). Personally, I am a fan of the Xbox and I bought one over a PS4 because of the media integration. I want that single box under the telly.

 

Equally I can understand why people will buy a PS4 (games first, cheaper and statistically more powerful).

 

My perspective I think the performance stats differential is overblown for reasons stated above. And indeed, as consoles get more powerful the differential becomes smaller. As we seem to be broadly the same vintage, the difference in sound capabilities between the C64 and the Spectrum was night and day thanks to the SID chip on the Commodore. On the next gen consoles however, the difference that faster ram / graphics makes will ultimately be a largely imperceptible few fps here or there. Where you might see it is at the end of this gen's cycle when developers are adept at sweating the most out of the machine.

 

In my opinion the biggest barrier MS faces vs. the PS4 is the price differential. At the moment (without exclusives, compelling media integration etc.) the cheaper machine will always have an advantage.

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pap

pap

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The electronic locking mechanism on the boot of my car is defective. It only really affects me when I want to put things in the boot or take them out. The rest of the car works ok. Now is my motor broken or temporarily sub-optimal? One thing my motor has over the XBox One is that at one time, the electronic boot mechanism did actually work. The XBox One broken from the moment you buy it in this country. It's broken every sixth frame and is worse than a direct connection into your TV's HDMI port. I can appreciate that having bought a machine, you're happy to make excuses for the facts, but let's not change the facts, eh?

 

I can't really accept that Microsoft didn't know about the 60Hz issue. They were, after all, the first company to actively address it. The original XBox featured a PAL 60 mode from the get-go, meaning that everything ran at a nice speed. Are you saying that between the two console launches, they've somehow lost that knowledge? I suspect the truth is they just didn't care, or were so focussed on what we developers like to call "the happy path" that they forgot about poor old Europe and Australasia.

 

You might say similar about Microsoft's desperate plea for people to ditch their PS3s; it's a US only offer for their preferred customers.

 

They've lost market lead in the UK; it used to be their second most important territory. They do not seem particularly arsed about getting it back.

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Bucks Saint

Bucks Saint

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Posted (edited)

People ignore Pap. Just like he does with everyone who owns and uses an Xbox One and say they have not had any problems, or they only have very minor problems which they barely ever notice. And how he ignores how most other people try to be balanced, by rightly praising aspects of the PS4, even if they prefer the Xbox.

 

Simple

Edited by Bucks Saint
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pap

pap

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People ignore Pap. Just like he does with everyone who owns and uses an Xbox One and say they have not had any problems, or they only have very minor problems which they barely ever notice. And how he ignores how most other people try to be balanced, by rightly praising aspects of the PS4, even if they prefer the Xbox.

 

Blimey. I thought Microsoft were desperate. I'm sorry if your sales pitch has left me slightly underwhelmed, Bucks. They should put "minor problems" and "you'll barely notice them" on the side of the packaging, along with ye olde classic, "my wife can't see the difference!".

 

Is this really the way you're going to conduct your valiant defence of the steaming pile of obsolescence sitting underneath your television, the box you paid £429 for so you could "speak" to your TV (at last!) in exchange for it f**king up football? Calling for everyone else to ignore me?

 

This thread has been sustained mostly from articles from the wider world, most of them supporting the notion that PS4 is doing better than the one in both sales and performance. I suggest that you present a few nuggets out there that back up what you say. I suspect that you can't because it's all one-way traffic, hence the rather pathetic appeal here.

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pap

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Here's an article from the wider world. Sony PS4 hardware causing corrupted save files. Suppose they should put that disclaimer on the 'faultless' PS4 boxes too?

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-21-sony-investigating-playstation-4-error-ce-34878-0-that-corrupts-save-files

 

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

 

That's more like it.

 

Haven't experienced this myself, but truly sh!t that people are. Doubt it is hardware. Writing stuff to disk never normally a problem. I'd say it more likely two processes having access to the same file.

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Alain Perrin

Alain Perrin

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Your car is a strange analogy Pap but it kind of proves my point. Your boot doesn't open with the remote, yes, it's broken. The TV does work, just not perfectly for everything (and I have faith that it'll be fixed soon).

 

That aside it is pretty pointless trying to debate with you because your views are so onesided. That's fine, you're entitled to your steaming pile of obsolescence / 3.9m unhappy owners perspective - it's just a pity you can't accept that people could genuinely own the Xbox and be happy with it. I don't feel the need to make excuses, just happy with it.

 

As to the wider world view, you quote an article with quotes from Sony PR (hmmm) which uses words like amassed for 4.2m and belittles as "only" 3.9m. Forgive me if I take the view that journalists have biases too.

 

And finally, thanks for enlightening me that their home market is more important to Microsoft than the UK/EU Nothing to do with the fact that 300m people live there and it'll be important to any company. On that basis I think I'll stick to the ZX Spectrum.....

Sent from my RM-821_eu_euro1_276 using Board Express

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pap

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Your car is a strange analogy Pap but it kind of proves my point. Your boot doesn't open with the remote, yes, it's broken. The TV does work, just not perfectly for everything (and I have faith that it'll be fixed soon).

 

I agree. Both my car and the XBox One are broken, so it proves both our points. Until the car was rolled out, so to speak, you just had a temporarily sub-optimal machine.

 

I have to ask; what is your faith that it'll be fixed based on? Surely the first step in addressing a problem is admitting it exists. Microsoft have kept very quiet on this, and I suspect a large part of that is because a fix for the TV stuff is going to be difficult, if not impossible to achieve without creating another problem. The best bet is to have an easy means to switch between 60Hz and 50Hz.

 

That aside it is pretty pointless trying to debate with you because your views are so onesided. That's fine, you're entitled to your steaming pile of obsolescence / 3.9m unhappy owners perspective - it's just a pity you can't accept that people could genuinely own the Xbox and be happy with it. I don't feel the need to make excuses, just happy with it.

 

As to the wider world view, you quote an article with quotes from Sony PR (hmmm) which uses words like amassed for 4.2m and belittles as "only" 3.9m. Forgive me if I take the view that journalists have biases too.

 

Who said that there were 3.9 million XBox One owners? That's the number that has been shipped to stores; it doesn't reflect the number of machines bought by end users. That means that just after launch, almost a million XBox Ones were laying unsold across the 13 launch countries. Do a Google search on unsold XBox Ones and you'll find that "only" 3m are actually steaming piles of obsolescence sitting in customers' homes.

 

And finally, thanks for enlightening me that their home market is more important to Microsoft than the UK/EU Nothing to do with the fact that 300m people live there and it'll be important to any company. On that basis I think I'll stick to the ZX Spectrum.....

 

You're better off moving to the US so that your console will work. Maybe once you've emigrated, you can come back to this thread and let everyone know how great the XBox One is (in its intended market).

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Nolan

Nolan

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If you actually bother to read the internet Pap, you'll find that tree 3.9 million units is the amount shipped to shops in the me financial year. The one million discrepancy was because they were still in transit onto store shelves.

 

Surely should find more worrying that in the last couple of days, albeit ps4 Sales, Sony's credit worthiness has been reduced to JUNK status.

 

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

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pap

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If you actually bother to read the internet Pap, you'll find that tree 3.9 million units is the amount shipped to shops in the me financial year. The one million discrepancy was because they were still in transit onto store shelves.

 

Surely should find more worrying that in the last couple of days, albeit ps4 Sales, Sony's credit worthiness has been reduced to JUNK status.

 

If that's the case, why even bother announcing the 3.9 million?

 

Surely MS is better off saying that they were supply constrained. But no, they want a number close to the 4.2 million PS4 units sold to end users, so they pick the shipped to vendors number.

 

In any case, we'll have a whole new set of numbers within the next couple of days. Let's see if MS have managed the herculean task of getting those 900,000 onto the shelves, eh?

 

Btw, my theory on why it's so hard to get these 900,000 units on the shelves? There are already a sh!tload on the shelves that haven't been sold.

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Nolan

Nolan

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They haven't even announced 3.9 million. It was information taking from Microsoft's accounts. Which are on general release as they are a publicly trading company.

 

As to why it takes so long to get from purvhase to store shelves. It's normally at least 3 weeks from manufacture to store shelves.

 

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

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pap

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They haven't even announced 3.9 million. It was information taking from Microsoft's accounts. Which are on general release as they are a publicly trading company.

 

As to why it takes so long to get from purvhase to store shelves. It's normally at least 3 weeks from manufacture to store shelves.

 

Read this Nolan, and go home.

 

“This holiday, we continued to make significant progress in the consumer space, headlined by Xbox One, which launched in 13 markets and sold in 3.9 million units in just over five weeks,” said Amy Hood, chief financial officer of Microsoft.

 

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20140124111637_Shipments_of_Xbox_One_Total_3_9_Million_Units.html

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pap

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a random website has copied and pasted part of the financial statement. ... wow.

 

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

 

You're demonstrably talking nonsense. MS definitely did announce 3.9 million sales, despite the fact you said they didn't, and obscured the fact they weren't retail sales, fooling skimmers like our mate Alain.

 

Random website? It's reporting a statement from the CFO, ffs :)

 

 

Your Tapatalk signature is now composing 40% of your diminishing "defence" now.

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pap

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Don't feed the pap troll, people.

 

Very useful for prospective purchasers there, Essruu. Good work. Would you like me to pay your fiver so you can post more?

 

I know you've been ripped off on Apple hardware loads, sir. The help is there if you need it.

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Nolan

Nolan

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You're demonstrably talking nonsense. MS definitely did announce 3.9 million sales, despite the fact you said they didn't, and obscured the fact they weren't retail sales, fooling skimmers like our mate Alain.

 

Random website? It's reporting a statement from the CFO, ffs :)

 

I'm currently confused how you think a statement from the CFO (Chief FINANCIAL Officer) is not a financial statement.... PAP logic I presume.

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Ampersound

Ampersound

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Had my PS4 for a month now and I love it more than the Xbox one we won in a competition just before Xmas. Incredibly the left rubber thumbstick on the PS4 controller has worn out and the metal ring the rubber sits on is now protruding. Its the only issue I've had with it so having had every PS iteration so far and never having worn out the analog stick out before (certainly not in 4 weeks of ownership) I'd say they might have changed the rubber from the DS3 controller.

 

A quick google search and it seems that its a common issue.

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Nolan

Nolan

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Sadly Euroganers comparison us already out of date because a lot if the Xbox Ones issues with BD & DVD playback have just been sorted with patches to their respective apps in the last few days.

 

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

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pap

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Sadly Euroganers comparison us already out of date because a lot if the Xbox Ones issues with BD & DVD playback have just been sorted with patches to their respective apps in the last few days.

 

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

 

Source? (Just to keep you honest)

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Bucks Saint

Bucks Saint

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I could try once more with this:

 

the Sun is the best selling paper in the UK by some margin and has been for years. I will leave others to decide if sales numbers prove quality

 

Is the Sun the most feature rich paper? The highest quality journalism? The widest breadth of articles and the deepest insight on the top stories? I say this as I am braced for another "Huh? You cant play video games on the Sun?" from you know who.

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sussexsaint

sussexsaint

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Really enjoying the PS4 with the boy at the moment - wish there were more games avaliable. As he is 10 I don't like him playing 1st person shooters and that seems to make up a fair number of the release titles.

 

he loves Knack, Lego Marvel and Need for Speed Rivals. Lots of fun charging about in a suped up police car; we are pretty late to the NFS franchise and got the free downlaod on the PS3 a few months ago. TBH he completely ignosers the missions and just does police chases, jumps and smashing things up. I can see the appeal :lol:

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Nolan

Nolan

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Sounds like pap's favorite non issue will be fixed sooner rather than later...

 

Q: How are you addressing TV judder issues? What about voice commands in new markets?

A: We’re looking forward to enhancing the Xbox One experience for everyone in the coming months. You’ll hear more about the February details soon, and then everything that’s in the March update soon after, so stay tuned.[/Quote]

 

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

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Ampersound

Ampersound

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Got the controller swapped at game for the worn out thumb stick.

 

They said it's the first they've seen worn... Which is bull as the ps4 demo controllers thumb sticks were shredded.

 

I've ordered some orb thumb stick covers to see if that stops wearing them out.

 

Still miles better than the xbox

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pap

pap

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OwMOy4o.jpg

 

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

 

Desperate stuff mate. All it means is that Microsoft have handed Respawn a large amount of cash for exclusivity. The same case could be made for any PS4 exclusive. It'd be crap there, too.

 

Really looking forward to Titanfall at 6040x1080 on the PC. Enjoy your 792p.

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pap

pap

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Posted (edited)

Metal Gear "Solider" on PS4.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-17-metal-gear-solid-5-ground-zeroes-is-720p-on-xbox-one

 

EDIT

PS4 renders 1080p with "room to spare".

 

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/kojima-playstation-4-can-render-1080p-at-60fps-with-room-to-spare/1100-6417709/

Edited by pap
Found additional article to link
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