Mark Duggan family reacts with fury to inquest verdict of lawful killing

[Viking Warrior]

Oh Dear Oh dear Mr Angry

 

I had not realised Minty was a left winger. I always thought he was more your central midfield type of person

 

In other words Minty is a decent individual if you have never met him and also takes some great photos to.

[Minty]

Thing is Viking, I have various views on various things, mostly left of centre but not always, and some which are slightly right... but apparently that can't be possible in Alpines world of generalisation.

[Viking Warrior]

I wonder how long The Met Police commisioner has left in his job , his comments re Duggan would ould have exactly instilled confoidence with his officers

 

The Metropolitan Police Commissioner has praised the "very dignified way" Mark Duggan's family has responded to the inquest conclusion.

 

On Wednesday, a jury concluded Mr Duggan was lawfully killed when he was shot dead by police in August 2011, sparking riots in many English cities.

 

Mark Duggan's aunt Carole Duggan said the family will fight the jury's decision "through the courts".

 

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe said: "They deserve our praise".

 

 

Interesting choice of words but I can understand he was trying to minimise the amount of hatred that can occur in the weeks ahead

 

but more importantly did he not say at the time he thought the police officers at the time of plebgate incident were telling the truth

 

I have a strong feeling his days are numbered , not a good week for him

[Whitey Grandad]

The fact that the copper thought he saw him holding a gun when he wasn't suggests to me that he panicked and shouldn't be dishing out lethal force on our streets.

 

For what it's worth I don't have an issue with the verdict, the bad guy is dead. The problem is nowadays the coppers don't seem capable of saying "we ****ed up" without there being all sorts of repercussions so they end up closing ranks and cover up.

 

The situation was a lot more complicated that whether or not he saw a gun. Even a witness on a ninth floor flat way across the road saw him holding something which he was convinced was a mobile phone whereas the copper thought he saw a hand holding a sock with a gun inside. It's not surprising that in a very tense situation like this the statements are vary somewhat. It's when the police statements are all the same that you should get suspicious.

[Clapham Saint]

The fact that the copper thought he saw him holding a gun when he wasn't suggests to me that he panicked and shouldn't be dishing out lethal force on our streets.

 

For what it's worth I don't have an issue with the verdict, the bad guy is dead. The problem is nowadays the coppers don't seem capable of saying "we ****ed up" without there being all sorts of repercussions so they end up closing ranks and cover up.

 

I would prefer to have police who actually use their eyes. You cannot see a gun that is not there, sounds to me like the copper either panicked or just executed him.

 

Like I said I couldn't care less about Duggan, the intelligence was obviously correct and he was a scum-bag. But police intelligence can often be wrong so it is preferable to actually see a threat before shooting.

 

How long do you think the officer had to make a decision?

 

I agree that no officer should ever fire a shot unless they believe it to be absolutely necessary to protect life (apologies for the obvious contradiction), however an officer travelling to intercept a known gang member who is believed to have (and it seems did have shortly before) a gun is not going to have time to be 100% certain that there is a gun being pointed at them before they react. If they did then they would all be killed before they even took the safety off.

 

The officer had reason to believe his life was in danger and had reason to believe that a known gang member was about to shoot him. In this case he was wrong but I can understand him not stopping to check the serial number and make of the gun he believed to be threatening him before he acted.

 

It is tragic that the officer turned out to be wrong and nobody sensible is saying that Dugan deserved to die, however his so much as reaching into his coat would have prompted virtually any one to fire in those circumstances.

[aintforever]

How long do you think the officer had to make a decision?

 

I agree that no officer should ever fire a shot unless they believe it to be absolutely necessary to protect life (apologies for the obvious contradiction), however an officer travelling to intercept a known gang member who is believed to have (and it seems did have shortly before) a gun is not going to have time to be 100% certain that there is a gun being pointed at them before they react. If they did then they would all be killed before they even took the safety off.

 

The officer had reason to believe his life was in danger and had reason to believe that a known gang member was about to shoot him. In this case he was wrong but I can understand him not stopping to check the serial number and make of the gun he believed to be threatening him before he acted.

 

It is tragic that the officer turned out to be wrong and nobody sensible is saying that Dugan deserved to die, however his so much as reaching into his coat would have prompted virtually any one to fire in those circumstances.

 

No but they should be certain they have a gun before shooting IMO. It sounds like this guy was holding a mobile phone, pretty hard to mistake that for a gun unless you are thinking irrationally. It is split second decisions but that is what they are trained to do and are supposed to make correct.

 

Remember in these situations the odds are stacked hugely in favour of the armed police. The copper has the professional training, the bullet proof vest, armed back-up, reliable weapon and in this case the element of surprise. Even if Duggan had exited the car with a gun he would be lucky to lift the gun, take aim and get a round off if the coppers had him in their sights.

[RedWillie]

Lawfully killed, decided by a jury of people like you and me.

[Badger]

They won't keep quiet until they get justice?

 

They probably realise how this kind of approach elevated Doreen Lawrence in the public eye.

 

wow that's cynical

 

Being a 'professional victim' is probably the best career path available for them though .

 

Spout the words "justice for.." often enough and they'll soon be on Question Time, Jeremy Vine on radio etc.

 

Should be an Institute for Professional Victims somewhere. Probably in Liverpool at a guess.

[ecuk268]

But they knew he had a gun in the car and had information he was on his way to shoot someone - ie he was armed and capable of using it. Presumably the officer pulling the trigger didnt know he'd thrown the gun out of the car.

 

They had intelligence that he had a gun in the car. That's not the same as being certain.

 

The officer who fired the shots said that he saw a gun hidden in a sock in Duggans hand but forensic examination of the gun and expert evidence found that this could not have been the case. In spite of it being bright summer's evening, no one saw the gun being thrown. More worryingly, the sergeant in charge of the stop instructed 3 armed response officers to secure the gun on the grass as soon as they arrived but, at that time, he could not have been sure that there was a gun, let alone it's location.

 

All 11 officers involved initially said that several shots had been fired. It was only when they were at the inquest that they admitted there were only two.

[Saint in Paradise]

"Should be an Institute for Professional Victims somewhere. Probably in Liverpool at a guess."

 

Come to NZ, there are quite a few "victims" from "crimes" in the 1800's, quite an industry over here.