Clattenburg under investigation after Southampton accuse him of abusing Adam Lallana

[trousers]

This. The PL should post up some of the choicest things Saints players have previously said to referees.

 

If a player says something derogatory then there is an instant punishment at the referee's disposal (yellow card). If the referee says something derogatory then the correct procedure is for the club to file a complaint. Seems fair enough to me.

[Pastor Patrón]

If you look at video footage of the incident Clattenburg clearly said "pipe down cracker"

[trousers]

I can't imagine a referee in any other sport showing any signs of impartiality. Boxing? Cricket? Rugby? Why should we have to put up with it when so much money is at stake in the premier league.

 

and then add to the fact that this was the first time that Clattenberg had reffed at Goodison for 6 years because of dodgy decisions in the Merseyside 2007 derby. That wasn't at the back of his mind when he failed to award two spot kicks for us was it?

 

Are you trying to suggest that referees are human?

[Chez]

I don't know what Clattenberg said, but if it had a racial side to it they would be at him. Abuse is abuse and so where do you stop?

a million miles from a harmless comment like "you've changed since playing for England". That quite frankly is not abuse in any shape or form, it's a decent come back after Lallana most likely gave him a mouthful for not awarding a penalty.

Edited 3 January, 2014 by Chez

[buctootim]

If a player says something derogatory then there is an instant punishment at the referee's disposal (yellow card). If the referee says something derogatory then the correct procedure is for the club to file a complaint. Seems fair enough to me.

 

The PL made their decision knowing what Lallana said to Clattenburg and what Clattenburg said in response. That seems fair enough to me. Clattenburg's comment was more of quip than insulting imo.

[torsaint]

Sky seem to be saying the club will not accept Clattenburg again until the matter is satisfactorily settled to the club's satisfaction. Seems we are winning.

[nta786]

TBH, I find this all shambolic. However, if the outcome means he doesn't officiate any of our games, then it is a win! We have other problems to manage anyway :/

[stevegrant]

I can't imagine a referee in any other sport showing any signs of impartiality. Boxing? Cricket? Rugby? Why should we have to put up with it when so much money is at stake in the premier league.

Boxing is a particularly bad example to pick there

 

Cricket used to be notoriously bad, but since the ICC brought in a rule which prevented umpires standing in Test matches involving their own nation, that's improved immeasurably.

[corky morris]

It's the clubs way of not letting Clattenburg ref us again! Worked for Everton for 6 years!! Pens awarded against us at Norwich & Arsenal. Free kick at home against Norwich that lead to the goal etc etc.

Saints think he is rubbish/biased/inept etc

It's not rocket science!

[JackFrost]

People here are dismissing what Clattenburg said based on the level of insult and the club should "man up" because it was just a 'minor dig'. It's not the 'level of insult' that I have a problem with

 

It's the fact that Clattenburg (allegedly) went even remotely near getting personal with a player. The comment is the classic personal patronising technique, used to deflect a conversation topic away from the issue in hand (the alleged handball) and wind up the individual. A common method to hide one's potential failings and the words used even have a bit of a sociopathic taint to them in my opinion. Clattenburg shouldn't be anywhere near that being the referee as it's a sign of poor judgement from someone who is supposed to be in control, regardless of what job they are in.

 

As with Mikel there isn't smoke without fire and that is why Clattenburg should be investigated. I totally get why the club/Don Cortese want to pursue it even if it's more to do with the possible intention of steering Clattenburg away from refereeing our games.

[Solid Saint]

People here are dismissing what Clattenburg said based on the level of insult and the club should "man up" because it was just a 'minor dig'. It's not the 'level of insult' that I have a problem with

 

It's the fact that Clattenburg (allegedly) went even remotely near getting personal with a player. The comment is the classic personal patronising technique, used to deflect a conversation topic away from the issue in hand (the alleged handball) and wind up the individual. A common method to hide one's potential failings and the words used even have a bit of a sociopathic taint to them in my opinion. Clattenburg shouldn't be anywhere near that being the referee as it's a sign of poor judgement from someone who is supposed to be in control, regardless of what job they are in.

 

As with Mikel there isn't smoke without fire and that is why Clattenburg should be investigated. I totally get why the club/Don Cortese want to pursue it even if it's more to do with the possible intention of steering Clattenburg away from refereeing our games.

 

Agreed, Crappenburgs comments were an exercise in smugness and windup.

 

Put all that together with his proven track history (not just with us http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2323916/Mark-Clattenburg-pays-for-Mersey-mayhem.html) and you're left with a very confused, out of his depth arse kisser.

 

Anyone else performing that badly in their jobs would be sacked and rightly so. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/mark-clattenburg-controversial-moments-featuring-1406549

Edited 3 January, 2014 by Solid Saint

[Georgie]

I personally think it's all a bit pathetic from Saints. Total laughing stock at the moment and I'm sure Lallana will be thrilled with all the stick he's going to get.

[Batman]

I personally think it's all a bit pathetic from Saints. Total laughing stock at the moment and I'm sure Lallana will be thrilled with all the stick he's going to get.

 

Who is falling over and laughing. ?

 

No one cares!!!

[Solid Saint]

I personally think it's all a bit pathetic from Saints. Total laughing stock at the moment and I'm sure Lallana will be thrilled with all the stick he's going to get.

 

Not at all. Check the links above, pretty much everyone at some time or another has complained about this tool.

 

Are they all as you say 'pathetic' or do they all really have a point.....

 

Quite simple really.

[trousers]

The PL made their decision knowing what Lallana said to Clattenburg and what Clattenburg said in response. That seems fair enough to me. Clattenburg's comment was more of quip than insulting imo.

 

No probs - I was just picking up on your comment about revealing what the players say during a match as the implication seemed to be that that mitigated what referees do and say.

[trousers]

People here are dismissing what Clattenburg said based on the level of insult and the club should "man up" because it was just a 'minor dig'. It's not the 'level of insult' that I have a problem with

 

It's the fact that Clattenburg (allegedly) went even remotely near getting personal with a player. The comment is the classic personal patronising technique, used to deflect a conversation topic away from the issue in hand (the alleged handball) and wind up the individual. A common method to hide one's potential failings and the words used even have a bit of a sociopathic taint to them in my opinion. Clattenburg shouldn't be anywhere near that being the referee as it's a sign of poor judgement from someone who is supposed to be in control, regardless of what job they are in.

 

Indeed. It seems that some people think that someone needs to swear etc before something can be deemed inappropriate or offensive.

[Georgie]

Who is falling over and laughing. ?

 

No one cares!!!

 

Ok well I'm getting stick then from non Saints fans and it's annoying me. Haha

[Georgie]

Not at all. Check the links above, pretty much everyone at some time or another has complained about this tool.

 

Are they all as you say 'pathetic' or do they all really have a point.....

 

Quite simple really.

 

If his comment to Lallana is true then yes it's slightly unprofessional but it's hardly abusing a player.

[Whitey Grandad]

If his comment to Lallana is true then yes it's slightly unprofessional but it's hardly abusing a player.

 

Highly unprofessional but not really abusive. I think that Premier League refs are too familiar in their dealings with the players, using first names, for example. This can lead to an unfair bias when handling a cup game between a Premier team and one with unfamiliar players. It also dilutes the authority of the referee.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I don't know about Adam, but some of our posters should man up a bit. There has always been banter and digs between players and refs. Dion Dublin said as much on radio today and Brian Moore was telling stories of refs giving him clog on Alan Brazil sports breakfast. ****ing hell I'd hate to have a pint or work with some of the fannies on here, they'd be up in HR complaining all day.

Edited 3 January, 2014 by Lord Duckhunter

[Wade Garrett]

A myth perpetrated by pundits, most of whom are ex-players who speak from the comfort of TV studios of the need to get in former players who know the game from the inside.

 

I haven't seen Robbie Savage, Roy Keane, Jamie Redknapp et all at the head of the queue to be referees.

 

Can anybody see too many Premier League players jostling for a job that pays around £70,000 pa, or twice the average weekly wage of most PL players?

 

Most players don't know the basic rules anyway.

 

Ask a player to exactly define when a player is active or inactive under the offside rule, or what constitutes a foul throw.

 

It might attract players from the lower leagues but there is a lot of opposition to fast tracking from referees and you can understand why.

 

A guy who has had to start doing Sunday League games on the local rec and then work his way up might not take too kindly to somebody who is fast-tracked simply because he is a former player. And there's no guarantee that a former player will be any better at interpreting and applying rules.

 

Ffs, you aren't going to get millionaire footballers becoming refs. But you could get experienced ex-pros who understand the dark arts and understand footballers more than the policemen, builders, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers we have at the moment.

 

I couldn't actually give a toss what current refs think of fast tracking players. We wouldn't be having this debate if the refs weren't so terrible at the moment.

[Solid Saint]

If his comment to Lallana is true then yes it's slightly unprofessional but it's hardly abusing a player.

 

The circumstances dictate that it was indeed abusive.

 

Certainly not to the levels of name calling/racism but Clattenburg has history of saying the exact wrong thing at the exact wrong time.

 

Abusive = insulting, rude, vulgar, offensive, disparaging, belittling, derogatory, disrespectful, denigratory, uncomplimentary, pejorative, vituperative;

 

Clattenburg was plenty of the above when he decided to open his fat, stupid mouth, AGAIN.

[Sour Mash]

The PL made their decision knowing what Lallana said to Clattenburg and what Clattenburg said in response. That seems fair enough to me. Clattenburg's comment was more of quip than insulting imo.

But have the PL made a decision on this yet? I thought it was just the Refs Association.

[Solid Saint]

I don't know about Adam, but some of our posters should man up a bit. There has always been banter and digs between players and refs. Dion Dublin said as much on radio today and Brian Moore was telling stories of refs giving him clog on Alan Brazil sports breakfast. ****ing hell I'd hate to have a pint work with some of the fannies on here, they'd be up in HR complaining all day.

 

Why mention Adam? he didn't make the complaint.

 

So you think Clattenburg is a good ref? I really don't have a clue what your point is?

 

That everyone's fannies and you're a real man?

 

Cause that's all you're saying. Nice one.

[Smirking_Saint]

Clattenburg is a crap ref, we all know that. But this whole Saints thing is a bit over the top for me, if all thats been said is whats been reported then its very over the top.

[Batman]

Clattenburg is a crap ref, we all know that. But this whole Saints thing is a bit over the top for me, if all thats been said is whats been reported then its very over the top.

 

To me. It's nothing more than the club trying to not get clattenburg again, for as long as possible and when we get him at SMS, the pressure will be on him

[THEVMAN]

Lets just say the comments used are a little more rash than is being documented

[Whitey Grandad]

A comment like this is hardly going to calm the situation, it displays poor man-management. As was suggested earlier, public support so as to uphold the authority of the refereeing community and a private bollocking for letting the matter arise in the first place.

[Batman]

Lets just say the comments used are a little more rash than is being documented

 

There we go. There is more than we all know

[Dark Munster]

I'd argue the complete opposite.

 

The more press this "discussion" gets, the more his absolutely horrendous decision gets buried under all the talk about Lallana supposedly being a bit of a pansy.

 

There have been 18 referees in PL games this season (3 have only taken a handful of games so are probably FL referees who have been given temporary promotions as cover), so the balance of probability is that we wouldn't have been assigned Clattenburg for a while anyway.

Apparently not:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2532710/Mark-Clattenburg-investigated-Southampton-accuse-referee-abusing-Adam-Lallana.html

 

I wish the PL would allow each club a choice of up to 2 refs they can request not to referee their matches. If a ref gets excluded by too many clubs, it's hasta la vista baby. It may force one or two of them, like Cretinberg, to do their job properly.

[Solid Saint]

Lets just say the comments used are a little more rash than is being documented

 

Well colour me surprised.

[teacher]

Don't know if it's been posted on here - Gary Lineker's reaction:

 

@GaryLineker: Is this Clattenberg stuff for real? So insignificant. Bit of manning up required, I reckon. We can't all be Saints.

[stevegrant]

Apparently not:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2532710/Mark-Clattenburg-investigated-Southampton-accuse-referee-abusing-Adam-Lallana.html

Not sure what your point is here, that's the original article.

[Whitey Grandad]

There we go. There is more than we all know

 

There must be something in it or every club would complain every week. Clattenburg is starting to get a reputation. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times...

[Smirking_Saint]

To me. It's nothing more than the club trying to not get clattenburg again, for as long as possible and when we get him at SMS, the pressure will be on him

 

This, just said that to the wife when she asked what the fuss was. Thats exactly what I think it is, try to get rid of Clattenburg as he is, TBF, an awefull ref.

 

If it was purely for the so called 'abuse' then its a bit laughable really, and Id suggest anyone getting their knickers in a twist over the so called 'abuse' is a bit precious.

[Dig Dig]

Lets just say the comments used are a little more rash than is being documented

 

Were they not lifted from the letter we sent to the PL?

[Viking Warrior]

I cannot believe some of the comments being said on here by some supporters of the club .

 

There wasn't a fair hearing . No independent adjudication of the evidence. Just swept under the carpet at the behest of the football referees secret masons lodge .

 

I wonder how much of. An impact this had on the 3 match ban and heavy fine on. Dani O

 

How much did Mark Hughes get fined

Oh and a final comment to stevegrant . Can you not you use a more appropriate comment than pansies .

 

What era were you born in . That sort of terminology has long be forgotten and should not be used

[Whitey Grandad]

Words of wisdom from Brian Clough:

 

Rules are Rules

 

The rules are the rules. We all have to abide by them, on and off the field, because somebody has written them down. They might be good or they might be bad but the rules enable us to have a game. Without them, there is no game at all. Everybody makes mistakes. I haven't seen a goalkeeper yet who hasn't let a ball slip through his hands when he should have stopped it with his eyes closed. I've never seen a centre forward who hasn't missed a simple chance to score. I've never seen a perfect referee, either. In fact, I've not seen a perfect anything in life (apart from me!).

page 159

 

Referees are doing their best

 

My players learned to understand that referees were doing their best, honestly and in keeping with whatever talent they had for the job. It developed into a kind of mutual respect for one another: my lot made life as comfortable as possible for match officials, and they were quick to appreciate it. I lost count of the number of referees who came to me both at Derby and Forest and said, 'I'd just like to express my thanks. I love matches involving your team. We never have any trouble with them.'

pages 161 - 162

 

Your Reputation Precedes you

 

It worked to our benefit. A team of mine was the referees' best friend. It was only human nature that they should have a sympathetic outlook towards us. They wouldn't bend the rules or do us any particular favours but they knew that my players were not cheating or taking liberties. A mistimed tackle was exactly that and nothing more sinister. When a player of mine stayed down with an injury, no one was in the slightest doubt that he was genuinely hurt.

 

I made a point of going to talk to referees at their meetings. Inevitably, I was asked about the badly behaved sides and I told them, 'That problem could be eliminated overnight. If a team persistently has players in trouble, especially for dissent, arguing and cussing and swearing, they should fine the managers concerned a month's wages. If a manager was hit in his pocket, he'd be quick to get rid of the rotten apples in his barrel. He wouldn't stand for some yob or thug costing him his wages.'

page 162

 

Over Scrutiny

 

Scrutiny is the referees' greatest enemy. Their performance is watched and recorded from just about every imaginable angle. Eventually, after as many re runs of the slow motion replay as it takes, the experts make up their minds and declare whether the referee was right or wrong. Would you like to have your every move at work recorded and analysed by some smart arsed expert who hasn't a clue what it's like to do your job in the first place? Of course you wouldn't and neither would I. The only thing that surprises me about modern refereeing is that so many people volunteer to do it.

page 164

 

Plus ça change

[adrian lord]

Don't know if it's been posted on here - Gary Lineker's reaction:

 

@GaryLineker: Is this Clattenberg stuff for real? So insignificant. Bit of manning up required, I reckon. We can't all be Saints.

 

Thanks - in fact I posted the link to the tweet earlier.

 

My view:

 

I detest Clatts with a vengeance but the specimen charge with which we are trying to convict him is weak and will be seen as pathetic by all neutrals. That's ASSUMING the alleged quotes are accurate....

Edited 3 January, 2014 by adrian lord

[Restark19]

Lets just say the comments used are a little more rash than is being documented

 

any chance of sharing?

[Dark Munster]

Not sure what your point is here, that's the original article.

 

Not sure if this is in the original match report, but even if it is it's getting spotlighted again:

 

Flashpoint: Lallana fired in a cross as Southampton tried to get back at Everton during Sunday's clash

Blocked: Lallana's delivery struck the arm of Everton defender Antolin Alcaraz

View: Clattenburg can be seen on the left of this picture not too far away from Alcaraz and the ball

Hands up: Lallana led the appeals as the Southampton players all claimed for a penalty after Alcaraz's block

Stunned: Lallana could not believe Clattenburg was not pointing to the penalty spot

[tomf05]

Must admit I found this a bit odd. However if Adam was actually upset by it as is reported then given his recent rise and recognitition , with the possibility that other clubs are bound to come sniffing I should think aside from any other objectives, the club may be simply trying to show him any support necessary so he isn't tempted by any potentially greener grass.

[CB Fry]

There we go. There is more than we all know

 

Including what Adam said to the ref.

[SO16_Saint]

So it is ok for refs to get dogs abuse all game from players, but the minute they (may have) Said something to a player, it's punishable by death.

[Dr Who?]

I like Clattenburg as a ref and I like Lallana. They should both shut the feck up and get on with their jobs. Clearly see it is on the blindside to the ref and the Lino is on the other side of the pitch. Best view Lallana. Ref could not see it, so could not give it. Get on with the game!

[OttawaSaint]

Great, so we will now get **** all from all the other refs for grassing on their mate.

[itchen_dan]

So it is ok for refs to get dogs abuse all game from players, but the minute they (may have) Said something to a player, it's punishable by death.

 

Not punishable by death, don't be stupid, but they're meant to be the ones setting the examples.

 

Random real world example - police officers get abused by the members of the public, they can't just turn around and start being rude and obnoxious back to them can they? Part of their job is to set the example and deal with issues (arrest) and keep an order on things.

 

A referee's job is essentially the same. If he felt Lallana was giving too much gob, he has to, by the letter of the book, caution him / send him off (depending on offence). Because he hasn't done that, what suddenly gives him the right to say what he likes, knowing he won't get punished for it? If he had booked Lallana, he has a substance to say "look I booked him because of his abuse so I lost my head and retaliated in the heat of the moment". Now, it's still not acceptable but I feel this story wouldn't even exist as Saints would have no right to complain due to him dealing with the initial situation. He is not dealing with the situation as he should be and should therefore be reported and punished. If he has things to say, say it in a match report, in private, to the FA - not on a football pitch with 22 other players and thousands of fans, members of staff and TV cameras.

 

He is ALWAYS the one getting caught for these type of things, yet he ALWAYS gets away with it (Obi Mikel etc). If it was a common occurrence, why aren't more clubs making complaints about other officials? It goes to show this bloke is not up to the job and needs to be punished, just like Andy D'Urso did - get demoted down the divisions. The only way to keep the Premier League the Elite League is to remove the poor officials and replace with better.

 

As others have said, careers and jobs can be lost on the back of referring decisions. IF MP had been here a year or 2 longer, he would've probably got the bullet judging by form and results in last few games but Cortese is a realist, he can see the quality of football etc and knows we have received too many wrong decisions, the majority by none other than... Mark Clattenburg.

 

The whole refereeing system needs overhauling and the more technology we can get in football, the better.

Edited 3 January, 2014 by itchen_dan

[Stu Man Do]

I like Clattenburg as a ref and I like Lallana. They should both shut the feck up and get on with their jobs. Clearly see it is on the blindside to the ref and the Lino is on the other side of the pitch. Best view Lallana. Ref could not see it, so could not give it. Get on with the game!

 

Apart from the fact the saints press officer tweeted that Clattenburg had told him he'd seen it and had decided it wasn't a peno? If he didn't see it that's just part of the game but you'd have to question why an official of the club would lie about something like that. If what's been reported is accurate though it does sound a bit weak for the club to argue the toss over, much better to have highlighted the numerous poor decisions the refs made in our games in the last year or so.

[THEVMAN]

Adam only asked why he never got the penalty. Why would you need to abuse a ref asking him that

[Fitzhugh Fella]

The PL made their decision knowing what Lallana said to Clattenburg and what Clattenburg said in response. That seems fair enough to me. Clattenburg's comment was more of quip than insulting imo.

 

 

Are refs there to quip? Just asking.