Barry Sanchez Posted 1 January, 2014 Share Posted 1 January, 2014 If we do not buy any players in the window it shall mean or go a long way to suggest that he is happy at where we are or where he thinks we are going, if we finish lower or way off the higher echelons of the League will he have no other option than to sack Pochettino and possibly the players he has enabled or even endorsed? Or if we buy players in the window it means he and the committee have underestimated what expenditure is actually required to maintain a consistent effort at the top end of the table and by the same token overestimated the quality in the 1st team and squad who they thoight could realistically challenge for a European place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 1 January, 2014 Share Posted 1 January, 2014 Oh do shut up Barry . Some times your posts are tedious . This is one of them . If you don't like our chairman . **** off to Cardiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stud mark of doom Posted 1 January, 2014 Share Posted 1 January, 2014 Most of our players are young and improving.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 1 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 1 January, 2014 Oh do shut up Barry . Some times your posts are tedious . This is one of them . If you don't like our chairman . **** off to Cardiff Its a valid question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 1 January, 2014 Share Posted 1 January, 2014 To extend your tortuous metaphor, he's potted the black, come off a cushion and broken a pack of reds. With injured players returning, let's see how far he can take this break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 1 January, 2014 Share Posted 1 January, 2014 I think mopo will be meeting with NC this week. 1) to discuss our approach to the FA Cup 2) to discuss our poor form and slide down the table 3) to discuss transfers. The issue mopo now has is that the one player he wanted/vouched for has been very poor so far. This may cause issues as NC may no longer trust mopo's judgement and we may now see 100% committee decisions again? Ultimately i think NC will remind mopo that his minimum expectation is 8th and leave him to get more out of the decent squad we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 1 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 1 January, 2014 I think mopo will be meeting with NC this week. 1) to discuss our approach to the FA Cup 2) to discuss our poor form and slide down the table 3) to discuss transfers. The issue mopo now has is that the one player he wanted/vouched for has been very poor so far. This may cause issues as NC may no longer trust mopo's judgement and we may now see 100% committee decisions again? Ultimately i think NC will remind mopo that his minimum expectation is 8th and leave him to get more out of the decent squad we have He will not get 8th, in quality and squads terms we are closest to Newcastle and Everton and still off the mark from them, we have weak links right through our squad and our attacking options have been very exposed this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 1 January, 2014 Share Posted 1 January, 2014 Pretty sure the ambition is more than just get to the Champions League. It's Champions League with half the team from the academy. So MP will be expected to deliver that with a squad not dissimilar to the one he has now. Not convinced we are going to be spending £30-50m in every single window. So MP has to step up from current levels of performance to achieve that ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 1 January, 2014 Share Posted 1 January, 2014 Pretty sure the ambition is more than just get to the Champions League. It's Champions League with half the team from the academy. So MP will be expected to deliver that with a squad not dissimilar to the one he has now. Not convinced we are going to be spending £30-50m in every single window. So MP has to step up from current levels of performance to achieve that ambition. And why would we need to spend £30-50m every window? Presumably as we clear the last remnants of what is still a championship squad (hopefully in this summer's window), it will simply be case of making selective additions with smaller and smaller outlays. The financial pain was always going to be felt upfront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 1 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 1 January, 2014 Pretty sure the ambition is more than just get to the Champions League. It's Champions League with half the team from the academy. So MP will be expected to deliver that with a squad not dissimilar to the one he has now. Not convinced we are going to be spending £30-50m in every single window. So MP has to step up from current levels of performance to achieve that ambition. Well if Cortese expects us to produce numerous Champions League players from the academy and playing in the same team when it has only been done once before in the modern era (United 92) and get it immediately then the lad is mad and on crack. £30-£50 million is chicken feed to clubs with European ambitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 And why would we need to spend £30-50m every window? Presumably as we clear the last remnants of what is still a championship squad (hopefully in this summer's window), it will simply be case of making selective additions with smaller and smaller outlays. The financial pain was always going to be felt upfront. How many teams have broken into the Champions League and then made "smaller and smaller outlays"? In fact, how many have moved from mid-table, to eighth, to sixth to fourth by making "smaller and smaller outlays"? Jesus Christ I cannot believe I have even bothered to reply to such nonsense, Strawlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 It's very simple.....it's just not that simple - we're great, just not as great as some wish/hope/want but doing very well in the context of reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 (edited) How many teams have broken into the Champions League and then made "smaller and smaller outlays"? In fact, how many have moved from mid-table, to eighth, to sixth to fourth by making "smaller and smaller outlays"? Jesus Christ I cannot believe I have even bothered to reply to such nonsense, Strawlock. Dear oh dear cb fried. In the short to medium term, our goal is to compete with the likes of Everton and Newcastle both of whom have hardly splashed the cash on transfers and do not have unrealistic aspirations for champs league football. In fact, so far from spending money, they're in surplus. But to indulge you, let's say they're the exception rather than the rule. With the exception of Chelsea and City (last time I checked there were more than two champs league places up for grabs), no team has spent more than £100m (net) over the past five years - in case you can't do the maths, that's £20m a year, an order of magnitude lower than your estimated £40m (to split the difference) which is nearly Chelsea territory in the crack years. Obviously we're playing catch up and still overhauling a championship squad; but there's no reason to think that over time with the talent and youth we have, our spending won't or can't come down commensurate with our ambition. Of course, as a proud adherent to the Stoke City school of football finance aka how to pi $$ money up the wall, most of this will fly over your head. Edited 2 January, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 There is nothing to be achieved by spending in this January window. 5th place is beyond us this season because there are too many teams, at least 6 or 7, with stronger squads than ours. We have a competitive first 11 with some surplus amongst the strikers but several are not as good as they will be as they gain experience and the lack of depth of top quality players has shown. But its too far into the season to do more than consolidate in the top half and to begin to have an eye on next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 Glasgow and Barry (or the same person) Both as funny as a bout of gout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 Its a valid question. .....but not one that hasn't been done-to-death already, Barry. IF, IF, IF....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 (edited) Dear oh dear cb fried. In the short to medium term, our goal is to compete with the likes of Everton and Newcastle both of whom have hardly splashed the cash on transfers and do not have unrealistic aspirations for champs league football. In fact, so far from spending money, they're in surplus. But to indulge you, let's say they're the exception rather than the rule. With the exception of Chelsea and City (last time I checked there were more than two champs league places up for grabs), no team has spent more than £100m (net) over the past five years - in case you can't do the maths, that's £20m a year, an order of magnitude lower than your estimated £40m (to split the difference) which is nearly Chelsea territory in the crack years. Obviously we're playing catch up and still overhauling a championship squad; but there's no reason to think that over time with the talent and youth we have, our spending won't or can't come down commensurate with our ambition. Of course, as a proud adherent to the Stoke City school of football finance aka how to pi $$ money up the wall, most of this will fly over your head. Newcastle and Everton are unlikely to ever make the Champions League. Not sure where you are getting your numbers from but one look at one club shows Liverpool spending £50m, £59m, £50m, £85 and £38m over the last five seasons, so I question your factoids. And they ain't troubling the Champions League in recent times are they? And we are in year one of the New TV deal with spending by clubs like us and Cardiff at new levels. That's the level of spending we will need to keep pace with the big clubs. And we will have to overinvest as most normal players given the choice would pick a big club not us. Edited 2 January, 2014 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 If we do not buy any players in the window it shall mean or go a long way to suggest that he is happy at where we are or where he thinks we are going, if we finish lower or way off the higher echelons of the League will he have no other option than to sack Pochettino and possibly the players he has enabled or even endorsed? Or if we buy players in the window it means he and the committee have underestimated what expenditure is actually required to maintain a consistent effort at the top end of the table and by the same token overestimated the quality in the 1st team and squad who they thoight could realistically challenge for a European place? I do agree with this! No matter what Cortese does next, if he buys players or not, if he sacks managers or not, he will be at the mercy of fatuous criticisms from helmets on the internet. Good point well made Barry! Happy new year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Durman Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 (edited) No it shows that he is committed to developing Academy players Keep the nucleus of our squad and let them develop together (Gazzaniga, Lovren, Wanyama, Schneiderlin, Jay-Rod, Shaw, Clyne, Chambers, Ward Prowse, Gallagher etc) and we will have a Manchester United on our hands (Scholes, Beckham, Neville brothers etc) Edited 2 January, 2014 by Andy Durman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 We have an excellent 11, maybe 13/14. The squad does not have the depth other teams have. Injuries hurt us. We have many young players who are still learning & will be inconsistent. Im disappointed at recent form, but talk of The Champions League was just utter b o l l o x in the first place. Why woul you tell everyone you will buy players? Better to keep quiet & wait for opportunities.Osvaldo has shown glimpses of excellence. Thiery Henry took a couple of seasons to settle. Four wins & we are safe!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 I do agree with this! No matter what Cortese does next, if he buys players or not, if he sacks managers or not, he will be at the mercy of fatuous criticisms from helmets on the internet. Good point well made Barry! Happy new year! : lol : Nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 Dear oh dear cb fried. In the short to medium term, our goal is to compete with the likes of Everton and Newcastle both of whom have hardly splashed the cash on transfers and do not have unrealistic aspirations for champs league football. In fact, so far from spending money, they're in surplus. But to indulge you, let's say they're the exception rather than the rule. With the exception of Chelsea and City (last time I checked there were more than two champs league places up for grabs), no team has spent more than £100m (net) over the past five years - in case you can't do the maths, that's £20m a year, an order of magnitude lower than your estimated £40m (to split the difference) which is nearly Chelsea territory in the crack years. Obviously we're playing catch up and still overhauling a championship squad; but there's no reason to think that over time with the talent and youth we have, our spending won't or can't come down commensurate with our ambition. Of course, as a proud adherent to the Stoke City school of football finance aka how to pi $$ money up the wall, most of this will fly over your head. An interesting point here. Everton and Newcastle both have pretty efficient loan strikers this season, they're getting goals from them for relatively little initial outlay but what you'd presume are hefty salaries but at the end of the season Lukaku and Remy will probably have cost their respective teams somewhere in the regon of 5 million quid for returns of around 15/18 goals I'd guess. Now we have a 13 million £ outlay on a striker, plus about 3 million in salary who or may or may not provide us with 10 goals, not looking great on that one yet. We do not use the loan market efficiently in the way some teams do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 2 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 2 January, 2014 Newcastle and Everton are unlikely to ever make the Champions League. Not sure where you are getting your numbers from but one look at one club shows Liverpool spending £50m, £59m, £50m, £85 and £38m over the last five seasons, so I question your factoids. And they ain't troubling the Champions League in recent times are they? And we are in year one of the New TV deal with spending by clubs like us and Cardiff at new levels. That's the level of spending we will need to keep pace with the big clubs. And we will have to overinvest as most normal players given the choice would pick a big club not us. Have said this for years, some of the forum clappers believe Messi is chomping at the bit and waiting for an offer from the Don, such is his pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 2 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 2 January, 2014 No it shows that he is committed to developing Academy players Keep the nucleus of our squad and let them develop together (Gazzaniga, Lovren, Wanyama, Schneiderlin, Jay-Rod, Shaw, Clyne, Chambers, Ward Prowse, Gallagher etc) and we will have a Manchester United on our hands (Scholes, Beckham, Neville brothers etc) Thats very optimistic and naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 An interesting point here. Everton and Newcastle both have pretty efficient loan strikers this season, they're getting goals from them for relatively little initial outlay but what you'd presume are hefty salaries but at the end of the season Lukaku and Remy will probably have cost their respective teams somewhere in the regon of 5 million quid for returns of around 15/18 goals I'd guess. Now we have a 13 million £ outlay on a striker, plus about 3 million in salary who or may or may not provide us with 10 goals, not looking great on that one yet. We do not use the loan market efficiently in the way some teams do. All well and good but Everton will have to replace Lukaku in the summer and West Brom have found out it isn't that easy to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 All well and good but Everton will have to replace Lukaku in the summer and West Brom have found out it isn't that easy to do... but probably after he's taken them to an Europa League place, anyway don't they have Koné hanging about somewhere, think he may be injured. He's a good striker, I'd have him if he was available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 but probably after he's taken them to an Europa League place, anyway don't they have Koné hanging about somewhere, think he may be injured. He's a good striker, I'd have him if he was available. Injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 it seems those more vocal and annoyed about the probability of missing out on Europe, are those who have been saying all along that we wont make it anyway!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 it seems those more vocal and annoyed about the probability of missing out on Europe, are those who have been saying all along that we wont make it anyway!! I reckon you are spot on there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 Why spend more when we have Puncheon out on loan? I guarantee that he would come off the bench and score a few goals, as he has done in the previous seasons. Without his contribution we might not be where we are today. The trouble with our strikers at present is that unlike Puncheon they lack a direct approach in the the final third, are indecisive and fluff chances when it matters. Punch is in top form at present. He is positive, has guts and character and does not lack confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 Newcastle and Everton are unlikely to ever make the Champions League. Not sure where you are getting your numbers from but one look at one club shows Liverpool spending £50m, £59m, £50m, £85 and £38m over the last five seasons, so I question your factoids. And they ain't troubling the Champions League in recent times are they? And we are in year one of the New TV deal with spending by clubs like us and Cardiff at new levels. That's the level of spending we will need to keep pace with the big clubs. And we will have to overinvest as most normal players given the choice would pick a big club not us. http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/premier-league/transferentwicklung/wettbewerb_GB1.html http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html The discrepancies are presumably due to the different five year periods they cover (inc/ex. 2013/14).. And they look at net rather than gross spend, that is, they take into account the fact that clubs also sell players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/premier-league/transferentwicklung/wettbewerb_GB1.html http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html The discrepancies are presumably due to the different five year periods they cover (inc/ex. 2013/14).. And they look at net rather than gross spend, that is, they take into account the fact that clubs also sell players. Always think it'd be a lot more interesting if they could include wages spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 Always think it'd be a lot more interesting if they could include wages spend. Agree totally...as well as include other sources of revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 Why spend more when we have Puncheon out on loan? I guarantee that he would come off the bench and score a few goals, as he has done in the previous seasons. Without his contribution we might not be where we are today. The trouble with our strikers at present is that unlike Puncheon they lack a direct approach in the the final third, are indecisive and fluff chances when it matters. Punch is in top form at present. He is positive, has guts and character and does not lack confidence. Hasn't scored many for Palace, has he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 2 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 2 January, 2014 it seems those more vocal and annoyed about the probability of missing out on Europe, are those who have been saying all along that we wont make it anyway!! Would love to be in Europe I make no bones about it, I dont believe Cortese and his bull**** so I think the Cup is the only way to get there hence my frustration at the lack of effort for the Sunderland game, a lot more than we realise I think is on this game this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 If we do not buy any players in the window it shall mean or go a long way to suggest that he is happy at where we are or where he thinks we are going, if we finish lower or way off the higher echelons of the League will he have no other option than to sack Pochettino and possibly the players he has enabled or even endorsed? Or if we buy players in the window it means he and the committee have underestimated what expenditure is actually required to maintain a consistent effort at the top end of the table and by the same token overestimated the quality in the 1st team and squad who they thoight could realistically challenge for a European place? I dont think he has snookered himself I doubt whether he actually ever thought SFC would ever get to the Champions League just hype Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 2 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 2 January, 2014 I dont think he has snookered himself I doubt whether he actually ever thought SFC would ever get to the Champions League just hype Or make us look bells to the footballing World? http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/man-utd/champions-league/news/pochettino-targets-champions-league_112410.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 yikes, ambition and belief.....terrible things!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 2 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 2 January, 2014 yikes, ambition and belief.....terrible things!!! If you dont deliver yes indeed, otherwise it appears as if you selling something comparable to snake oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 If you dont deliver yes indeed, otherwise it appears as if you selling something comparable to snake oil. Yeah I agree completely. I´d rather see people at the club go out and aim for mid-table at the best. I really miss those Telfer and McCann days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 REPORTER: Can you stay in top 4? PONCH: Why not? We want to keep on believing we can do well. We're on a positive run and the sky is the limit. REPORTER: Can you stay in top 4? PONCH: Lols! No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 If you dont deliver yes indeed, otherwise it appears as if you selling something comparable to snake oil. One and a half seasons in and we're comfortably top half. You're more deluded than the clappers - they're hoping for European football; you're positively demanding it now, now, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 2 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 2 January, 2014 REPORTER: Can you stay in top 4? PONCH: Why not? We want to keep on believing we can do well. We're on a positive run and the sky is the limit. REPORTER: Can you stay in top 4? PONCH: Lols! No! Where is the interpreter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 Where is the interpreter? This interview was in the spanish press, I've translated it myself. I believe it is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 2 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 2 January, 2014 One and a half seasons in and we're comfortably top half. You're more deluded than the clappers - they're hoping for European football; you're positively demanding it now, now, now. No I am merely asking the question of how we are are going to achieve such a stupid notion without actually competing with and outbidding the actual top 4, I hope for nothing like that as it will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 2 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 2 January, 2014 This interview was in the spanish press, I've translated it myself. I believe it is accurate. http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/southampton/champions-league/news/pochettino-eyes-champions-league_109097.html Was he lying here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/southampton/champions-league/news/pochettino-eyes-champions-league_109097.html Was he lying here? right, I've worked it out then, if we're not good enough for the Champions League (which we obviously aren't) we might as well finish 9th or 11th or 13th and see if we can't put a few more of our young hopefuls on to the market in order to be able to buy ourselves some Champion's League players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/southampton/champions-league/news/pochettino-eyes-champions-league_109097.html Was he lying here? Do you actually enjoy following Saints FC? You seem to want to pick holes in anything the club says or does, why is this? Can't you just try and enjoy the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/southampton/champions-league/news/pochettino-eyes-champions-league_109097.html Was he lying here? Nah i reckon he probably does prefer the champions league to the Europa. I sort of feel the same way. I never bother watching the Europa games but i quite often tune in to see what Adrian Chiles+Roy Keane has to say bout the Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 2 January, 2014 Share Posted 2 January, 2014 I dont think he has snookered himself I doubt whether he actually ever thought SFC would ever get to the Champions League just hype Quite right. The 'Clappers' got carried away by the hype. I would expect our first objective was to stay in the Premier league and if possible finish mid table. IMO we will finish about 14th, but with a brief flirtation with the bottom 3, and I think that would be cause for celebration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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