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Has Cortese snookered himself?


Barry Sanchez

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If we do not buy any players in the window it shall mean or go a long way to suggest that he is happy at where we are or where he thinks we are going, if we finish lower or way off the higher echelons of the League will he have no other option than to sack Pochettino and possibly the players he has enabled or even endorsed?

 

Or if we buy players in the window it means he and the committee have underestimated what expenditure is actually required to maintain a consistent effort at the top end of the table and by the same token overestimated the quality in the 1st team and squad who they thoight could realistically challenge for a European place?

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I think mopo will be meeting with NC this week.

 

1) to discuss our approach to the FA Cup

2) to discuss our poor form and slide down the table

3) to discuss transfers.

 

The issue mopo now has is that the one player he wanted/vouched for has been very poor so far. This may cause issues as NC may no longer trust mopo's judgement and we may now see 100% committee decisions again?

 

Ultimately i think NC will remind mopo that his minimum expectation is 8th and leave him to get more out of the decent squad we have

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I think mopo will be meeting with NC this week.

 

1) to discuss our approach to the FA Cup

2) to discuss our poor form and slide down the table

3) to discuss transfers.

 

The issue mopo now has is that the one player he wanted/vouched for has been very poor so far. This may cause issues as NC may no longer trust mopo's judgement and we may now see 100% committee decisions again?

 

Ultimately i think NC will remind mopo that his minimum expectation is 8th and leave him to get more out of the decent squad we have

 

He will not get 8th, in quality and squads terms we are closest to Newcastle and Everton and still off the mark from them, we have weak links right through our squad and our attacking options have been very exposed this season.

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Pretty sure the ambition is more than just get to the Champions League.

 

It's Champions League with half the team from the academy.

 

So MP will be expected to deliver that with a squad not dissimilar to the one he has now. Not convinced we are going to be spending £30-50m in every single window.

 

So MP has to step up from current levels of performance to achieve that ambition.

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Pretty sure the ambition is more than just get to the Champions League.

 

It's Champions League with half the team from the academy.

 

So MP will be expected to deliver that with a squad not dissimilar to the one he has now. Not convinced we are going to be spending £30-50m in every single window.

 

So MP has to step up from current levels of performance to achieve that ambition.

 

And why would we need to spend £30-50m every window?

 

Presumably as we clear the last remnants of what is still a championship squad (hopefully in this summer's window), it will simply be case of making selective additions with smaller and smaller outlays.

 

The financial pain was always going to be felt upfront.

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Pretty sure the ambition is more than just get to the Champions League.

 

It's Champions League with half the team from the academy.

 

So MP will be expected to deliver that with a squad not dissimilar to the one he has now. Not convinced we are going to be spending £30-50m in every single window.

 

So MP has to step up from current levels of performance to achieve that ambition.

 

Well if Cortese expects us to produce numerous Champions League players from the academy and playing in the same team when it has only been done once before in the modern era (United 92) and get it immediately then the lad is mad and on crack.

 

£30-£50 million is chicken feed to clubs with European ambitions.

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And why would we need to spend £30-50m every window?

 

Presumably as we clear the last remnants of what is still a championship squad (hopefully in this summer's window), it will simply be case of making selective additions with smaller and smaller outlays.

 

The financial pain was always going to be felt upfront.

 

How many teams have broken into the Champions League and then made "smaller and smaller outlays"? In fact, how many have moved from mid-table, to eighth, to sixth to fourth by making "smaller and smaller outlays"?

 

Jesus Christ I cannot believe I have even bothered to reply to such nonsense, Strawlock.

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How many teams have broken into the Champions League and then made "smaller and smaller outlays"? In fact, how many have moved from mid-table, to eighth, to sixth to fourth by making "smaller and smaller outlays"?

 

Jesus Christ I cannot believe I have even bothered to reply to such nonsense, Strawlock.

 

Dear oh dear cb fried.

 

In the short to medium term, our goal is to compete with the likes of Everton and Newcastle both of whom have hardly splashed the cash on transfers and do not have unrealistic aspirations for champs league football. In fact, so far from spending money, they're in surplus. But to indulge you, let's say they're the exception rather than the rule.

 

With the exception of Chelsea and City (last time I checked there were more than two champs league places up for grabs), no team has spent more than £100m (net) over the past five years - in case you can't do the maths, that's £20m a year, an order of magnitude lower than your estimated £40m (to split the difference) which is nearly Chelsea territory in the crack years.

 

Obviously we're playing catch up and still overhauling a championship squad; but there's no reason to think that over time with the talent and youth we have, our spending won't or can't come down commensurate with our ambition.

 

Of course, as a proud adherent to the Stoke City school of football finance aka how to pi $$ money up the wall, most of this will fly over your head.

Edited by shurlock
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There is nothing to be achieved by spending in this January window. 5th place is beyond us this season because there are too many teams, at least 6 or 7, with stronger squads than ours. We have a competitive first 11 with some surplus amongst the strikers but several are not as good as they will be as they gain experience and the lack of depth of top quality players has shown. But its too far into the season to do more than consolidate in the top half and to begin to have an eye on next year.

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Dear oh dear cb fried.

 

In the short to medium term, our goal is to compete with the likes of Everton and Newcastle both of whom have hardly splashed the cash on transfers and do not have unrealistic aspirations for champs league football. In fact, so far from spending money, they're in surplus. But to indulge you, let's say they're the exception rather than the rule.

 

With the exception of Chelsea and City (last time I checked there were more than two champs league places up for grabs), no team has spent more than £100m (net) over the past five years - in case you can't do the maths, that's £20m a year, an order of magnitude lower than your estimated £40m (to split the difference) which is nearly Chelsea territory in the crack years.

 

Obviously we're playing catch up and still overhauling a championship squad; but there's no reason to think that over time with the talent and youth we have, our spending won't or can't come down commensurate with our ambition.

 

Of course, as a proud adherent to the Stoke City school of football finance aka how to pi $$ money up the wall, most of this will fly over your head.

 

Newcastle and Everton are unlikely to ever make the Champions League.

 

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from but one look at one club shows Liverpool spending £50m, £59m, £50m, £85 and £38m over the last five seasons, so I question your factoids.

 

And they ain't troubling the Champions League in recent times are they?

 

And we are in year one of the New TV deal with spending by clubs like us and Cardiff at new levels.

 

That's the level of spending we will need to keep pace with the big clubs. And we will have to overinvest as most normal players given the choice would pick a big club not us.

Edited by CB Fry
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If we do not buy any players in the window it shall mean or go a long way to suggest that he is happy at where we are or where he thinks we are going, if we finish lower or way off the higher echelons of the League will he have no other option than to sack Pochettino and possibly the players he has enabled or even endorsed?

 

Or if we buy players in the window it means he and the committee have underestimated what expenditure is actually required to maintain a consistent effort at the top end of the table and by the same token overestimated the quality in the 1st team and squad who they thoight could realistically challenge for a European place?

 

I do agree with this! No matter what Cortese does next, if he buys players or not, if he sacks managers or not, he will be at the mercy of fatuous criticisms from helmets on the internet.

 

Good point well made Barry! Happy new year!

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No it shows that he is committed to developing Academy players

 

Keep the nucleus of our squad and let them develop together (Gazzaniga, Lovren, Wanyama, Schneiderlin, Jay-Rod, Shaw, Clyne, Chambers, Ward Prowse, Gallagher etc) and we will have a Manchester United on our hands (Scholes, Beckham, Neville brothers etc)

Edited by Andy Durman
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We have an excellent 11, maybe 13/14. The squad does not have the depth other teams have. Injuries hurt us. We have many young players who are still learning & will be inconsistent. Im disappointed at recent form, but talk of The Champions League was just utter b o l l o x in the first place. Why woul you tell everyone you will buy players? Better to keep quiet & wait for opportunities.Osvaldo has shown glimpses of excellence. Thiery Henry took a couple of seasons to settle.

Four wins & we are safe!!

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I do agree with this! No matter what Cortese does next, if he buys players or not, if he sacks managers or not, he will be at the mercy of fatuous criticisms from helmets on the internet.

 

Good point well made Barry! Happy new year!

 

 

: lol :

 

Nutshell.

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Dear oh dear cb fried.

 

In the short to medium term, our goal is to compete with the likes of Everton and Newcastle both of whom have hardly splashed the cash on transfers and do not have unrealistic aspirations for champs league football. In fact, so far from spending money, they're in surplus. But to indulge you, let's say they're the exception rather than the rule.

 

With the exception of Chelsea and City (last time I checked there were more than two champs league places up for grabs), no team has spent more than £100m (net) over the past five years - in case you can't do the maths, that's £20m a year, an order of magnitude lower than your estimated £40m (to split the difference) which is nearly Chelsea territory in the crack years.

 

Obviously we're playing catch up and still overhauling a championship squad; but there's no reason to think that over time with the talent and youth we have, our spending won't or can't come down commensurate with our ambition.

 

Of course, as a proud adherent to the Stoke City school of football finance aka how to pi $$ money up the wall, most of this will fly over your head.

 

 

An interesting point here. Everton and Newcastle both have pretty efficient loan strikers this season, they're getting goals from them for relatively little initial outlay but what you'd presume are hefty salaries but at the end of the season Lukaku and Remy will probably have cost their respective teams somewhere in the regon of 5 million quid for returns of around 15/18 goals I'd guess. Now we have a 13 million £ outlay on a striker, plus about 3 million in salary who or may or may not provide us with 10 goals, not looking great on that one yet. We do not use the loan market efficiently in the way some teams do.

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Newcastle and Everton are unlikely to ever make the Champions League.

 

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from but one look at one club shows Liverpool spending £50m, £59m, £50m, £85 and £38m over the last five seasons, so I question your factoids.

 

And they ain't troubling the Champions League in recent times are they?

 

And we are in year one of the New TV deal with spending by clubs like us and Cardiff at new levels.

 

That's the level of spending we will need to keep pace with the big clubs. And we will have to overinvest as most normal players given the choice would pick a big club not us.

 

Have said this for years, some of the forum clappers believe Messi is chomping at the bit and waiting for an offer from the Don, such is his pull.

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No it shows that he is committed to developing Academy players

 

Keep the nucleus of our squad and let them develop together (Gazzaniga, Lovren, Wanyama, Schneiderlin, Jay-Rod, Shaw, Clyne, Chambers, Ward Prowse, Gallagher etc) and we will have a Manchester United on our hands (Scholes, Beckham, Neville brothers etc)

 

Thats very optimistic and naive.

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An interesting point here. Everton and Newcastle both have pretty efficient loan strikers this season, they're getting goals from them for relatively little initial outlay but what you'd presume are hefty salaries but at the end of the season Lukaku and Remy will probably have cost their respective teams somewhere in the regon of 5 million quid for returns of around 15/18 goals I'd guess. Now we have a 13 million £ outlay on a striker, plus about 3 million in salary who or may or may not provide us with 10 goals, not looking great on that one yet. We do not use the loan market efficiently in the way some teams do.

 

All well and good but Everton will have to replace Lukaku in the summer and West Brom have found out it isn't that easy to do...

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All well and good but Everton will have to replace Lukaku in the summer and West Brom have found out it isn't that easy to do...

 

 

but probably after he's taken them to an Europa League place, anyway don't they have Koné hanging about somewhere, think he may be injured. He's a good striker, I'd have him if he was available.

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Why spend more when we have Puncheon out on loan? I guarantee that he would come off the bench and score a few goals, as he has done in the previous seasons. Without his contribution we might not be where we are today. The trouble with our strikers at present is that unlike Puncheon they lack a direct approach in the the final third, are indecisive and fluff chances when it matters. Punch is in top form at present. He is positive, has guts and character and does not lack confidence.

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Newcastle and Everton are unlikely to ever make the Champions League.

 

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from but one look at one club shows Liverpool spending £50m, £59m, £50m, £85 and £38m over the last five seasons, so I question your factoids.

 

And they ain't troubling the Champions League in recent times are they?

 

And we are in year one of the New TV deal with spending by clubs like us and Cardiff at new levels.

 

That's the level of spending we will need to keep pace with the big clubs. And we will have to overinvest as most normal players given the choice would pick a big club not us.

 

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/premier-league/transferentwicklung/wettbewerb_GB1.html

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html

 

The discrepancies are presumably due to the different five year periods they cover (inc/ex. 2013/14)..

 

And they look at net rather than gross spend, that is, they take into account the fact that clubs also sell players.

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http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/premier-league/transferentwicklung/wettbewerb_GB1.html

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html

 

The discrepancies are presumably due to the different five year periods they cover (inc/ex. 2013/14)..

 

And they look at net rather than gross spend, that is, they take into account the fact that clubs also sell players.

 

Always think it'd be a lot more interesting if they could include wages spend.

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Why spend more when we have Puncheon out on loan? I guarantee that he would come off the bench and score a few goals, as he has done in the previous seasons. Without his contribution we might not be where we are today. The trouble with our strikers at present is that unlike Puncheon they lack a direct approach in the the final third, are indecisive and fluff chances when it matters. Punch is in top form at present. He is positive, has guts and character and does not lack confidence.

 

Hasn't scored many for Palace, has he?

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it seems those more vocal and annoyed about the probability of missing out on Europe, are those who have been saying all along that we wont make it anyway!!

 

 

Would love to be in Europe I make no bones about it, I dont believe Cortese and his bull**** so I think the Cup is the only way to get there hence my frustration at the lack of effort for the Sunderland game, a lot more than we realise I think is on this game this weekend.

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If we do not buy any players in the window it shall mean or go a long way to suggest that he is happy at where we are or where he thinks we are going, if we finish lower or way off the higher echelons of the League will he have no other option than to sack Pochettino and possibly the players he has enabled or even endorsed?

 

Or if we buy players in the window it means he and the committee have underestimated what expenditure is actually required to maintain a consistent effort at the top end of the table and by the same token overestimated the quality in the 1st team and squad who they thoight could realistically challenge for a European place?

 

I dont think he has snookered himself I doubt whether he actually ever thought SFC would ever get to the Champions League just hype

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If you dont deliver yes indeed, otherwise it appears as if you selling something comparable to snake oil.

 

Yeah I agree completely. I´d rather see people at the club go out and aim for mid-table at the best. I really miss those Telfer and McCann days.

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If you dont deliver yes indeed, otherwise it appears as if you selling something comparable to snake oil.

 

One and a half seasons in and we're comfortably top half.

 

You're more deluded than the clappers - they're hoping for European football; you're positively demanding it now, now, now.

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One and a half seasons in and we're comfortably top half.

 

You're more deluded than the clappers - they're hoping for European football; you're positively demanding it now, now, now.

 

No I am merely asking the question of how we are are going to achieve such a stupid notion without actually competing with and outbidding the actual top 4, I hope for nothing like that as it will never happen.

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right, I've worked it out then, if we're not good enough for the Champions League (which we obviously aren't) we might as well finish 9th or 11th or 13th and see if we can't put a few more of our young hopefuls on to the market in order to be able to buy ourselves some Champion's League players.

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Nah i reckon he probably does prefer the champions league to the Europa. I sort of feel the same way. I never bother watching the Europa games but i quite often tune in to see what Adrian Chiles+Roy Keane has to say bout the Champions League.

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I dont think he has snookered himself I doubt whether he actually ever thought SFC would ever get to the Champions League just hype

 

Quite right. The 'Clappers' got carried away by the hype.

 

I would expect our first objective was to stay in the Premier league and if possible finish mid table. IMO we will finish about 14th, but with a brief flirtation with the bottom 3, and I think that would be cause for celebration.

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