Had enough of lowe and his stupid ideas askham come out from behind lowes shadow

[70's Mike]

I think I would disagree just a little bit. I'm not flying a flag for Jones but his job is to report on the financial situation as it is and probably come up with some options for appraisal. His office would also produce the annual accounts.

 

However, it would be the Board that voted on which option (if any) to adopt. He is, in effect, the messenger, IMO.

 

HE is also on the board and if he disagreed with any decisions should have resigned

[Saint Mary]

Hi Jonah. The dates I quoted were taken from the 2008 Annual Report and Accounts, page 6, which has a quick resume of the directors. I think the point is that David Jones has been involved in some senior capacity with SFC and SLH Plc for a considerable number of years.

 

Whether the dominant male was Lowe, Askham, Wilde or Crouch doesn't really matter as you can make a case for all of them being culpable for our current financial plight in some way.

 

In my experience as a Board member of a few companies one of the the responsibilities of the Finance Director is to advise on the implications of any decisions taken by the Board, and I am interested to know the advice meted out by David Jones.

[saint1977]

Hi Jonah. The dates I quoted were taken from the 2008 Annual Report and Accounts, page 6, which has a quick resume of the directors. I think the point is that David Jones has been involved in some senior capacity with SFC and SLH Plc for a considerable number of years.

 

Whether the dominant male was Lowe, Askham, Wilde or Crouch doesn't really matter as you can make a case for all of them being culpable for our current financial plight in some way.

 

In my experience as a Board member of a few companies one of the the responsibilities of the Finance Director is to advise on the implications of any decisions taken by the Board, and I am interested to know the advice meted out by David Jones.

 

V.True. Even if he joined in 1997, he's still been there getting on for 12 years now and can't hide from responsibility if he's on the board of a limited company and particularly as the equivalent of Head of Finance.

[docker-p]

Lowe sells off our best players to balance the books, but fails to factor in, again, the consequences. Asking fans to pay £24 a ticket to watch reserve team football means gates dwindle by 5K. And so to balance the books, Lowe is going to do the same again ie; sell our best players without factoring in the consequences; again. Result, relegation and fewer fans still. Thus Lowe sells anything thats left ....etc etc etc etc.

 

If the man had brains he would be dangerous, instead he is just a calamity. And as for Spineless Mike Wilde.....

[tombletomble]

Lowe sells off our best players to balance the books, but fails to factor in, again, the consequences. Asking fans to pay £24 a ticket to watch reserve team football means gates dwindle by 5K. And so to balance the books, Lowe is going to do the same again ie; sell our best players without factoring in the consequences; again. Result, relegation and fewer fans still. Thus Lowe sells anything thats left ....etc etc etc etc.

 

If the man had brains he would be dangerous, instead he is just a calamity. And as for Spineless Mike Wilde.....

 

But what else are you expecting him to do.

 

I am not a fan of Lowe and am not enjoying what is happening to our club at the moment but it is very annoying to come on here and read countless post criticising Lowe but not offering any suggestion of there own.

 

It's a simple fact. We need to raise cash. As soon as possible.

 

The only assets we have that are worth any money are our talented younger players. This means we are left with the choice of selling some of then now to try and prevent administration. If we don't sell and do go into administration we still end up having to sell players, we will just get a lot less for them.

 

We are in a lose/lose situation

[Long Shot]

I just bumped into a bloke I know who used to be fanatical once - ie running coaches to away matches etc etc. He told me he has not set foot in SMS since Lowe returned which means this is the first season since 1961 he has not gone to a home game. He went to Charlton but will not go to St Marys while Lowe is there. There are quite literally thousands like him (he had 2 season tickets up until the start of this season.

 

Lowe going would easily put at least 5-7000 on the next gate and they would stay loyal imo. That extra £100,000 per game would certainly help.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Lowe going would easily put at least 5-7000 on the next gate and they would stay loyal imo. That extra £100,000 per game would certainly help.

 

That figure is ambitious at best imo, the only thing that would bring 5-7k 'back' would be a push for promotion, will never be convinced that many are staying away solely because of Lowe

[RoswellSaint]

On another matter (i can't start a thread) has anyone heard any whispers re takeover recently? I heard on saturday that Rupert Lowe has secured investment from an American firm which is due to be announced at the egm. The name shearer was mentioned again - We have been down this road a million times of course - this was via a close business associate of the dark lord. anyone heard anything on this??

 

A year ago a hundred people would have jumped all over this by now. It is probably that guy Madoff promising he could get his hands on a lot of money.

[tombletomble]

That figure is ambitious at best imo, the only thing that would bring 5-7k 'back' would be a push for promotion, will never be convinced that many are staying away solely because of Lowe

 

 

I agree.

 

I am sure that there is a decent number staying away because of Lowe but really doubt that it could be as high as 5-7k. That is a lot of people. 50% of our current gates nearly

[Wade Garrett]

I just bumped into a bloke I know who used to be fanatical once - ie running coaches to away matches etc etc. He told me he has not set foot in SMS since Lowe returned which means this is the first season since 1961 he has not gone to a home game. He went to Charlton but will not go to St Marys while Lowe is there. There are quite literally thousands like him (he had 2 season tickets up until the start of this season.

 

Lowe going would easily put at least 5-7000 on the next gate and they would stay loyal imo. That extra £100,000 per game would certainly help.

 

Cue the 'they aren't staying away because of Lowe' brigade.

 

Of course they bloody are.

[um pahars]

Some valid points, but I do think you have been somewhat pessimistic when it suits your argument, yet optimistic on other occasions.

 

I have to agree with the premise that things are certainly tight (then again I was saying as much about three years ago, but was abused as just spreading anti Lowe gossip LOL), but where I diifer form some of your points is the remedial action taking place under Lowe.

 

Whilst I fully accept that our financial predicament may well constrain some of the footballing decisions, that is not the same as saying we have had no choices to make (i.e. we could have gone for a different manager, spent the Scheiderlin money differently, got in different loan players who might actually get a game etc etc etc).

 

So I'm back to my original point that I can't believe people don't understand the financial position we're in. We are financially up sh!t creek - we need to generate cash. To spell it out without the PR, we have to make x millions to repay the bank overdraft as well as cutting back to spend within our means. How do we, as a CCC club, make millions?

 

Well, we can try to maximise the crowd. How do you do that? By winning games primarily And that is a huge problem under the current management. Could better results have been achieved by a better manager? If so, then crowds and gate receipts would have been significantly up, thus creating a virtuous circle, as opposed to a viscous circle, also by playing more attractive football. But we have no money to buy top players to guarantee those wins - facing facts, we aint going to win the league. So that leaves either playing journeymen and trying to achieve above our current level, or it means playing kids and trying to achieve above our level Or perhaps finding a happy medium somewhere in between, even given the tight financial position. For me Poortvliet (and whoever is advising him) went for too many youngsters, and we could easily have bought in some older heads on loan . Can we afford to pay journeymen like Stern John and Rasiak? No Given the money spent on Schneiderlin and some of the other loans, we might have been able to afford one of them though, and not to do so may prove a very famse economy . Even if you think they would help us win more games, and personally I don't, we simply cannot afford it as we have to repay the overdraft immediately we dont have to repay the overdraft immediately.

 

Secondly, we can repay millions by selling players. Shock horror, yes that's the most efficient way to pay off a lump sum. Now do you do that by selling a once-in-a-lifetime player like MLT and never have the opportunity to build again, or do you build an academy to provide a stream of income for the club? Errr, you build an academy. The fact is that we'll have to sell 2 or 3 of them over the next year or two unless we get lucky financially, but once we have re-balanced the books we won't *need* to sell them. The academy is a HUGE asset, and the PR regarding it is also important - we are known for the talent we produce, and the style we play already - both important aspects given we want to sell to Premiership teams, not CCC rivals. I too think the Academy is a valuable part of the Club, but I also think that it's ability to stock the first team with players is somewhat overhyped.

 

We will produce the odd real talent (Bale, Bridge, Walcott) who will go on to bigger clubs, providing us with an income stream, but if we rely on the Academy to populate the first team, then I think we will have problems. For me, there will always need to be a mixture of a few home grown players in the first team, along with others who have been acquired from elsewhere.

 

We are not going to get crowds of 25,000-30,000 in the CCC. And it's nothing to do with Lowe - the crowds dropped under both Wilde and Crouch... it's not that simple. whilst I agree hitting those numbers would be somewhat optimistic, I think we should be aiming for closer to them than the 14,000 we are currently getting!!!!!! And it has everything to do with Lowe. Lowe is CEO and Chairman and his policies and choice of manager are directly responsible for results, which in turn directly affect gates. For the idealists who don't want to sell the academy players we bring through, I am sure RL doesn't *want* to sell them except that he knows we need to sell some *now* to provide a future. And before anyone accuses RL they need to look at how many academy players MW and LC sold whilst massively overspending on journeymen.

 

Sorry, are you upset at how RL has "engaged" you, or do you want what is best for the club's future? It sounds to me like it's not the latter at all. If we don't beat Forest we'll still be clear of the relegation zone and the youngsters (that NP wouldn't play under the wonderful journeymen regime of last season's narrow escape) Given the fact that Perason inherited a Club in freefall I think that accuation is somewhat unwarranted. In a 13 game relegation battle coming off the back of 2 points out of 18 (and getting knocked out of the Cup by a lower league team), I think the inroduction of youngsters at that point would have been disastrous (both for them and for us).

 

Pearson made it clear that he believed in the youngsters (see the many quotes on this) and would use them when he was able to, but at that point in our season we needed some older heads to steady the ship. He delivered a better points per game ratio than Jan has achieved and ultimately did what he was asked to do will have one more game under their belts. To be clear of relegation at Xmas is a good achievement for a team of youngsters hit by injuries to important players like Killer, Thomas and Holmes. They will get better.

 

The point is with this that it's a long term plan, the academy is an investment in appreciating assets. The idea of buying a bunch of journeymen and taking a punt on doing well is a perfect example of short-termism - purchasing a load of depreciating assets will only ever lead to losing money and owing more money... unless you get lucky. And that is (fortunately in a way) not an option for us anyway in our current financial state. It is indeed a long term plan, but there must also be an element of a short term solution about it as well, as we cannot afford to be relegated, nor continue to survive on such small crowds.

Edited 16 December, 2008 by um pahars

[Lunatic Fridge]

I agree.

 

I am sure that there is a decent number staying away because of Lowe but really doubt that it could be as high as 5-7k. That is a lot of people. 50% of our current gates nearly

 

WRONG.

 

Believe those who are not going now and examine facts. There are at least 7000 not turning up. And contrary to popular belief we will NOT be back to watch Manure, Real Madrid and nor will we should we be in the top 3 or 6 (highly unlikely) middle or in the shyte where we are now, whilst the club is riddled with the disease that is Lowe and his cronies.

 

However I have the highest regard and admiration for those souls who ventured up to Burnley, Palace etc. Lowe should be refunding the cost of their ticket .

[INFLUENCED.COM]

WRONG.

 

Believe those who are not going now and examine facts. There are at least 7000 not turning up. And contrary to popular belief we will NOT be back to watch Manure, Real Madrid and nor will we should we be in the top 3 or 6 (highly unlikely) middle or in the shyte where we are now, whilst the club is riddled with the disease that is Lowe and his cronies..

 

You are misguided if you believe your cause is represented by that 7000, the highest percentage are not going now for a number of reasons, the fact to be examined will be how many will be in attendance on the 4th.

[kelkel31]

That figure is ambitious at best imo, the only thing that would bring 5-7k 'back' would be a push for promotion, will never be convinced that many are staying away solely because of Lowe

 

how about we find some way to get rid of pretty much all the current directors of the club and give it 5 games, if the crowds dont go up 5-7k, then those of us that say that people are staying away because of lowe will say we were wrong and apologize.

 

at least we would have got rid of the current failing idiots!

[saint1977]

I'm going to put a devil's advocate post on this thread before one of Rupert's PR plants does it in a much less subtle way. I believe that people ARE staying away because of Lowe but I'm not sure it's as many as 5-7k. I think the figure is probably 2-4k, maybe slightly less. Don't believe any of the PR spin planted on here that it has has no impact at all because I've got a number friends that were long-term STs even last season that really couldn't stomach the thought of Rupert being Chairman again and are staying away.

 

My point is that after Wilde took over in 2006/7, the gates went up a bit but not by as much as people predicted. Some of the people who stated that they would SMS regulars again if Lowe was ousted didn't follow through with their pledges and it did undermine the movement to get shot of Askham's proxy group a bit sadly.

 

I just wanted to put a bit of balance into the debate.