Post Match Reaction: SAINTS 0-3 Chelsea

[Window Cleaner]

On the subject of Lovren, that smack in the mouth he got from José (I think) didn't look particularly pleasant though did it. Obviously had a tooth or some teeth knocked out, did well to play on with it really. It was after what 3 or 4 minutes of the first half, I think if we'd had any viable change solution on the bench we'd have subbed him but as we don't we didn't. Mauricio obviously has no real confidence in either Maya or Jos and it's painful to have to accept that we have 2 CBs and anything that

breaks up the partnership is a disaster in waiting.

[John Boy Saint]

Anyone hear if the Lass said yes to the Lads marriage proposal on the big screen at half time?

 

The chant of "you don't know what your doing" was quite amusing from the crowd.

[Saint Martini]

I see some people are questioning why Pochettino took off Cork. There's one reason and its the yellow card he got. Last seaso he took of Cork very early and whena sked about it he said he didn't want to risk a red card. In short, he doesn't trust Cork to be able to play with a yellow card to his name. if that is wrong or right is up to debate but it is not unmotivated.

[Window Cleaner]

I see some people are questioning why Pochettino took off Cork. There's one reason and its the yellow card he got. Last seaso he took of Cork very early and whena sked about it he said he didn't want to risk a red card. In short, he doesn't trust Cork to be able to play with a yellow card to his name. if that is wrong or right is up to debate but it is not unmotivated.

 

 

but he doesn't take Morgan or Victor off when they get cards though does he. Just Cork, does it every time he gets a yellow card, did it at Everton despite having no realistic back up on the bench, dropped JWP and Davis to DM and Everton strolled through us to win. Yesterday Morgan was absolutely awful but Cork got subbed just because he'd got a silly yellow.

[Sour Mash]

I see some people are questioning why Pochettino took off Cork. There's one reason and its the yellow card he got. Last seaso he took of Cork very early and whena sked about it he said he didn't want to risk a red card. In short, he doesn't trust Cork to be able to play with a yellow card to his name. if that is wrong or right is up to debate but it is not unmotivated.

Why wouldn’t he trust him? It’s not like Cork has a long history of red cards throughout his career.

[Window Cleaner]

Why wouldn’t he trust him? It’s not like Cork has a long history of red cards throughout his career.

 

 

It seems completely illogical is his handling of Corky, must be for some reason we don't know about, like putting Reed on the bench every game and never using him (well apart from about 30 seconds against City).

[Saint_Tony]

We were beaten by a superior side. WhenChelsea have the likes of Willian and Oscar on the bench then it's hard to compete. We gave it a go and weren't up to it, but we've played worse this season. It's been a tricky run of fixtures, but we're still comfortable in 9th and we should be looking to stay there and maybe push for 7th or 8th

[John Boy Saint]

Why wouldn’t he trust him? It’s not like Cork has a long history of red cards throughout his career.

probably not Cork who can't be trusted but the referees, when a yellow was handed out for Ashley Cole kicking his own ankles and going down in "pain" with the amount of laying about on the wet grass Chelsea players did at the merest of contact and the ref buying it why risk the chance of losing a key mid fielder to a nothing second yellow.

[Window Cleaner]

probably not Cork who can't be trusted but the referees, when a yellow was handed out for Ashley Cole kicking his own ankles and going down in "pain" with the amount of laying about on the wet grass Chelsea players did at the merest of contact and the ref buying it why risk the chance of losing a key mid fielder to a nothing second yellow.

 

 

but that doesn't answer the question of why he doesn't take Morgan or Victor off when they get cards does it. Morgan has had 5 yellows this season, don't think he's ever been subbed after any of them. Victor has had 4 yellows, played the full 90 on 3 of them and was subbed 5 minutes from the end against Arsenal. So at best you can say that Maurico's attitude towards Cork is irrational.

[Sour Mash]

probably not Cork who can't be trusted but the referees, when a yellow was handed out for Ashley Cole kicking his own ankles and going down in "pain" with the amount of laying about on the wet grass Chelsea players did at the merest of contact and the ref buying it why risk the chance of losing a key mid fielder to a nothing second yellow.

My point was why Cork specifically can't be trusted on a yellow? We don't sub every player that gets booked do we.

[Graffito]

but that doesn't answer the question of why he doesn't take Morgan or Victor off when they get cards does it. Morgan has had 5 yellows this season, don't think he's ever been subbed after any of them. Victor has had 4 yellows, played the full 90 on 3 of them and was subbed 5 minutes from the end against Arsenal. So at best you can say that Maurico's attitude towards Cork is irrational.

 

Maybe the reason wasn't just the yellow card.

[Toadhall Saint]

Well beaten by a very good side playing very well, did well first half and well into the game until their lucky first goal. looked very tired second.

 

Just about sums it up for me.

[John Boy Saint]

Maybe the reason wasn't just the yellow card.

The other thing could be that Cork invariably passes safely sideways more often than forwards.

[Wes Tender]

Odd. I thought he played well and has done his last 3 appearances. Thought he looked hungrier and put in far more effort than usual. Always trying to make something happen, even if he doesn't always pull it off (which isn't unusual in an attacking position)

 

I began to lose count of the number of times that he was robbed of the ball. He must have lost us possession at least half a dozen times. If he was in the box surrounded by defenders, you could excuse it, but invariably he wasn't. For the amount he cost and the billing he got as a star player, he was very poor yesterday. Puncheon would have troubled the Chelski defence far more than Ramirez did.

[Graffito]

The other thing could be that Cork invariably passes safely sideways more often than forwards.

 

Yes. I rate him but he doesn't score and doesn't open up games. Taking him off risked conceding further but we needed to score. It was a rational decision by Pochettino.

[Sour Mash]

Yes. I rate him but he doesn't score and doesn't open up games. Taking him off risked conceding further but we needed to score. It was a rational decision by Pochettino.

He was playing better than Schneiderlin. If we're unable to win the ball back, we won't score or open up games regardless of who else is playing further up the pitch.

[Window Cleaner]

He was playing better than Schneiderlin. If we're unable to win the ball back, we won't score or open up games regardless of who else is playing further up the pitch.

 

 

Agreed Morgan should have been subbed yesterday, never, ever seen him looking so out of sorts, watched some of the game again yesterday evening and he was absolutely awful, just didn't look bothered at all, mind you his positioning was strange and we seemed to be trying to play with 3 DMs at one time. The fact that whoscored attributed him a note of 5.4 yesterday just shows how bad he was. I mean it's no great reference scale but to get less than 6 you have to get sent off, give away a couple of own goals or just be totally useless.

[Graffito]

He was playing better than Schneiderlin. If we're unable to win the ball back, we won't score or open up games regardless of who else is playing further up the pitch.

 

So he could have taken off Schneiderlin or Cork. He chose to take off Cork. Point stands.

[Window Cleaner]

Yes. I rate him but he doesn't score and doesn't open up games. Taking him off risked conceding further but we needed to score. It was a rational decision by Pochettino.

 

 

none of our midfielders score very much, what have they got something like 7 goals between them and Lallana has 4 of those.

Adam 4,Morgan,Gaston and Steve Davis one each.

[Graffito]

none of our midfielders score very much, what have they got something like 7 goals between them and Lallana has 4 of those.

Adam 4,Morgan,Gaston and Steve Davis one each.

 

Agreed. Needs addressing.

[Sour Mash]

So he could have taken off Schneiderlin or Cork. He chose to take off Cork. Point stands.

Your point doesn't stand. He took off the player that was playing better and handed over the middle of the park to Chelsea.

[Graffito]

Your point doesn't stand. He took off the player that was playing better and handed over the middle of the park to Chelsea.

 

Simplistic reasoning.

[Lord Duckhunter]

cork is average at best. He slows our game down too much and he doesn't particularly open sides up or protect our back 4 well. Its no surprise he doesn't feature much unless we have injuries as Morgan and victor are head and shoulders above him and Davis a better player. He'll end up at Norwich or palace , somewhere like that . He's a solid pro who has done well for us the past 2 years, but he's yesterdays man as far as I'm concerned.

[Saint_clark]

It's a total myth that Cork doesn't attack well. Look back at our NPC goals and see how he puts in some quality passes/crosses (I know it's a league below, but he played the entire season whereas he didn't last).

[Roger]

The worst second half I've seen at home this season - by some distance.

 

We took our time getting our minds together from the first whistle, but after 10 minutes or so, we began to improve and by the end of the first half, we could even claim to have shaded it.

 

But then early in the second half, Mourinho brought on Oscar and Willians and that changed the momentum firmly in Chelsea's favour. Our substitutions? To take off Cork yet again, when he was the player showing most intent to close down their midfield players and regain possession whenever we lost the ball. The player he should have taken off was Ramirez. Having heard how good he had been against Everton, I was expecting to see some improvement on the player I had last seen, but it was the same old Ramirez, flattering to deceive, losing us possession, easily knocked off the ball, not on the same wavelength as his team mates.

 

Presumably Shaw took a knock again to be substituted for Clyne and he showed good composure on the left flank. God alone knows knows how many Chelski would have scored had Fox played there. Chambers was solid on the right.

 

Lambert showed some promise when he came on, but after they had scored, our effort and desire diminished with each succesive goal. We lacked urgency, strolled about half-heartedly and never looked like scoring in the second half. Frankly that second half performance was unacceptable. It is one thing to be beaten by the better team knowing that you have done your best, played out of your skins. It is quite another walking away from the ground feeling that the players have not given their all and didn't have the pride to go all out to get at least one goal back.

 

We have an opportunity in the Cup Match against Burnley to get a result that will give the players a confidence boost. After this run of poor results, albeit against some of the top teams, we need to stop the rot and turn ourselves around.

 

I don't agree about gaston. Th ought lallana took too many touches when a one two was on. Gaston created more than lallana yesterday. With a few matches he will be fine.

[Roger]

Chelsea look a very decent side to me although they look weak as **** at fullback. Chambers took cole apart in the first half, which was excellent viewing. Our problem was that we tried to play through the middle and there simply wasn't any room. A couple of wingers in the window would give us a plan b.

 

Davis 7 some great sweeping in the first half. Good kicking. Massive step up from gazza

Chambers 8 fantastic first half. Looked tired in the second half.

Fonte 7 decent game, but never really got to grips with Torres. got Lovren out of jail a few times.

Lovren 5 sloppy from the start and his worst game of the season.

Shaw 7 usual solid display.

Cork 7 everything you expect of cork. No idea why we keep taking him off.

Morgan 6 no room to play and didn't dominate like he usually does. Brilliant full length tackle to prevent a 4 on 1 breakaway.

Davis 6 neat and tidy but very little effect on the game.

Lallana 6 some great stuff in the first half but disappeared in the second. Not sure why we are moving him out wide when he. Has been great down the middle.

Ramirez 5 one outstanding pass to Rodriguez but overall he wasn't great. Took too long and gave it away cheaply too often. I'd of subbed him. Defensively he is poor so he needs to shine going forward and he didn't.

Rodriguez 4 poor down the middle and disappeared when moving out wide.

 

Clyne 4 touch poor several times but got forward well. Never looked comfortable on the left.

Lambert 5 no impact.

Prowse not on for very long, but prefer cork on a yellow.

 

Clyne didn't put a foot wrong ffs!

[Lord Duckhunter]

How many assists has cork in the premiership.

[Window Cleaner]

I don't agree about gaston. Th ought lallana took too many touches when a one two was on. Gaston created more than lallana yesterday. With a few matches he will be fine.

 

 

Lallana was trying too hard to impress Woy, if he hadn't been there we might even have played better.

[Wes Tender]

I don't agree about gaston. Th ought lallana took too many touches when a one two was on. Gaston created more than lallana yesterday. With a few matches he will be fine.

 

But can we afford him giving the ball away so easily in those few matches in the hope that he will eventually show the promise he ought to have done so in the year that he has been here?

 

There is a reason that Lallana wears the 20 shirt and Ramirez the 10; Lallana is twice as good.

[Roger]

But can we afford him giving the ball away so easily in those few matches in the hope that he will eventually show the promise he ought to have done so in the year that he has been here?

 

There is a reason that Lallana wears the 20 shirt and Ramirez the 10; Lallana is twice as good.

 

No but he's looking for a runner and j rod was Mekong wrong runs so he needed to hold onto it longer and then was robbed. I th ought lallana lost ball just as much. Not saying lallana isn't better just not yesterday.

[david in sweden]

Chelsea look a very decent side to me although they look weak as **** at fullback. Chambers took cole apart in the first half, which was excellent viewing. Our problem was that we tried to play through the middle and there simply wasn't any room. A couple of wingers in the window would give us a plan b.

 

 

Lovren 5 sloppy from the start and his worst game of the season.

 

 

a bit unkind d'you think ?.......nothing to do with the smash in the head he got in that collision in the opening minutes?

 

Commentator said they thought he'd swallowed his tongue... and the medics were checking his jaw and teeth for damage.

 

I know he's tough and didn't come off ....but I expect some injury report on that - it looked pretty bad at the time.

[Window Cleaner]

....nothing to do with the smash in the head he got in that collision in the opening minutes - d'you think?

 

Commentator said they thought he'd swallowed his tongue... and the medics were checking his jaw and teeth for damage.

 

I know he's tough and didn't come off ....but I expect some injury report on that - it looked pretty bad at the time.

 

 

yes it did but even then a half stunned Lovren has to be better than a prime conditioned Jos.

[derry]

A dirty day, torrential rain with a 30 mph wind and no plan. Chelsea did our pushed up defence with pacy breaks in behind catching us on the difficult surface. However, Villa, Spurs and Everton caught us out the same way. We have to find a way to change when presented with these tactics. For me when faced with this, dispense with the 55% possession in our half drop the CBs off 10 yds, hold the full backs, stick three right up on back four and put the ball in hard supporting from midfield. The one time we did it yesterday right at the end Lambert got on the end of it.

 

I'm not advocating that as playing style but as a shock counter, as I like the way we try to play but sometimes we are too ponderous going nowhere. The block of four with Wanyama and Schneiderlin in front of the CBs was the foundation for the high line, attacking full backs, and high press. IMO there is no room for Davis and Ramirez in the same team, Cork can do the Wanyama role, take him off and the door is wide open. Chelsea defended in numbers then broke out with pace but kept a solid barrier of the back four plus Mikel to disrupt our possession game.

 

One thing that stood out, Rodriguez needs Lambert as he is ineffective on his own without the service he needs. I would like to see how a front four of Rodriguez, Ramirez and Lallana behind Lambert with at the moment Cork and Schneiderlin in front of the CBs would work out. Play the early season way unless the opposition play direct and if they do hit them with a dose of the same and keep a compact back four.

[Viking Warrior]

As derry said . Are defence were getting caught out a few times in the Everton and spuds match . Had the spurs forwards been in firm they may have put 5 past us . . We need victor back as soon as possible

[Rasiak-9-]

how about us having a wager,the money going to a charity. Every team you list finishing above us, I give £20 to charity every one finishes below you give the money. The wagers given to Granty for him to administer

 

And what a surprise, he doesn't respond.

 

Dalek, you've been busted for trolling.

[stknowle]

No but he's looking for a runner and j rod was Mekong wrong runs so he needed to hold onto it longer and then was robbed. I th ought lallana lost ball just as much. Not saying lallana isn't better just not yesterday.

 

Mekong wrong? Auto correct Vietnam edition.

[Roger]

Making.

[derry]

I've long thought that Hooiveld's problem is he only uses his left foot even when wrong sided. I watched him at half time yesterday in ten minutes he touched the ball once with his right foot all the rest only his left foot used. I don't feel any sympathy for him because he has obviously made no effort to improve his right foot. One has to ask the question, why haven't the club coaches sorted that problem? I would have thought making him play right side in practice games and just using his right foot would improve his weak side.

[NickG]

It's a total myth that Cork doesn't attack well. Look back at our NPC goals and see how he puts in some quality passes/crosses (I know it's a league below, but he played the entire season whereas he didn't last).

 

13/14 goals (assists)

Schneiderlin 1(0)

Davis 1 (2)

JWP 0 (2)

Cork 0 (0)

Ramirez 1 (0)

 

12/13 goals (assists)

Ramirez 5 (3)

Schneiderlin 5 (0)

Davis 2 (1)

Cork 0 (0)

 

11/12 goals (assists)

Schneiderlin 2 (3)

Cork 0 (2)

 

This season Schneiderlin, JWP and Davis have been ahead of Cork for MP.

 

When we went behind he is also the player least likely to score or create a goal.

 

Appreciate the argument about possession but substitution makes perfect sense when trying to get a goal.

 

Ramirez completed most key passes during the game, plus scored in cup games.

[Sour Mash]

13/14 goals (assists)

Schneiderlin 1(0)

Davis 1 (2)

JWP 0 (2)

Cork 0 (0)

Ramirez 1 (0)

 

12/13 goals (assists)

Ramirez 5 (3)

Schneiderlin 5 (0)

Davis 2 (1)

Cork 0 (0)

 

11/12 goals (assists)

Schneiderlin 2 (3)

Cork 0 (2)

 

This season Schneiderlin, JWP and Davis have been ahead of Cork for MP.

 

When we went behind he is also the player least likely to score or create a goal.

 

Appreciate the argument about possession but substitution makes perfect sense when trying to get a goal.

 

Ramirez completed most key passes during the game, plus scored in cup games.

It doesn't make perfect sense when trying to get a goal, as you can't score if you don't have the ball and Cork was proving to be the best at getting it back for us.

[Window Cleaner]

I've long thought that Hooiveld's problem is he only uses his left foot even when wrong sided. I watched him at half time yesterday in ten minutes he touched the ball once with his right foot all the rest only his left foot used. I don't feel any sympathy for him because he has obviously made no effort to improve his right foot. One has to ask the question, why haven't the club coaches sorted that problem? I would have thought making him play right side in practice games and just using his right foot would improve his weak side.

 

 

because it's something that needs to be sorted out at the age of 6 to 8. If he's always used only his left foot there's no way that that can be changed at pushing 30.

[derry]

because it's something that needs to be sorted out at the age of 6 to 8. If he's always used only his left foot there's no way that that can be changed at pushing 30.

 

All he needs to do is practice every day. It is all to do with motivation not age. Just as an example I started playing golf in my thirties, I could hardly hit the ball and had no idea where it would go, with practice I got down to a four handicap and can still hit the ball high/low and draw/fade even though I don't have the distance any more. The result of lots of practice and lessons. Even now in my seventies I play six days a week and hit about 160 balls on the seventh day. Another example at a time when aviation took the same view that only the young could learn efficiently, I was 28 before I learned to fly, became a competent instructor, aerobatic pilot, long haul jet captain at a time when age was questioned. At 63 I came out of retirement and did a conversion course onto a new type because by now the thinking had changed and whilst the airline had plenty of young co pilots with the hours for promotion it was only allowed to promote some and was forced to bring in experience to keep the balance. I'm now teaching myself to play the electric guitar, a lot more difficult than golf or flying.

 

What I'm trying to show is that provided the basic aptitude is there, age is no impediment, it might not be easy but if Hooiveld wanted to kick right footed he could with constant practice, if he really wanted it enough or was made to by the club.

[Graffito]

All he needs to do is practice every day. It is all to do with motivation not age. Just as an example I started playing golf in my thirties, I could hardly hit the ball and had no idea where it would go, with practice I got down to a four handicap and can still hit the ball high/low and draw/fade even though I don't have the distance any more. The result of lots of practice and lessons. Even now in my seventies I play six days a week and hit about 160 balls on the seventh day. Another example at a time when aviation took the same view that only the young could learn efficiently, I was 28 before I learned to fly, became a competent instructor, aerobatic pilot, long haul jet captain at a time when age was questioned. At 63 I came out of retirement and did a conversion course onto a new type because by now the thinking had changed and whilst the airline had plenty of young co pilots with the hours for promotion it was only allowed to promote some and was forced to bring in experience to keep the balance. I'm now teaching myself to play the electric guitar, a lot more difficult than golf or flying.

 

What I'm trying to show is that provided the basic aptitude is there, age is no impediment, it might not be easy but if Hooiveld wanted to kick right footed he could with constant practice, if he really wanted it enough or was made to by the club.

 

I agree that it could be improved at any age but equally I think it's something that would come naturally only if ingrained at an early age. For all I know being ambidextrous may be a function of the brain but I've heard of right handed youngsters being coached to play on the left side because it's gives them such an advantage e.g. Cricket, but this would not work with older sports people. I think you could be right about Hooiveld. It would help explain the ogs and how his body shape is sometimes wrong when the ball comes into the box. Not comfortable, you could say gauche.

[derry]

I agree that it could be improved at any age but equally I think it's something that would come naturally only if ingrained at an early age. For all I know being ambidextrous may be a function of the brain but I've heard of right handed youngsters being coached to play on the left side because it's gives them such an advantage e.g. Cricket, but this would not work with older sports people. I think you could be right about Hooiveld. It would help explain the ogs and how his body shape is sometimes wrong when the ball comes into the box. Not comfortable, you could say gauche.

 

I agree with this, not natural but needs work. It's a lot easier to be taught right when very young.