Do you have any confidence in Poortvliet?

[Gordon Mockles]

Its funny /tragic to see that many of those calling for JP's head are the same posters who called for Burley's head, Lowe, Wilde, Crouch and McMenemy and also didnt want Pearson appointed. This is just another episode in the 'long on complaints, short on solutions' *****fest.

 

IMO for what its worth JP has done a pretty good job with largely last seasons reserves and youth players. Even if we just stay where we are (and I reckon we'll get midtable) it will be better than Pearson achieved with much more resource - and no that isnt a pop at Pearson who I thought did an alright job.

 

It’s funny/tragic to see so many fence sitting fans who supported Lowe post relegation still persisting to support his failing regime in it’s second term of failure. Some of the reasoning and defence against ridiculous odds is obscure to say the least and most debate laughable from those peddling his worn out ‘youth production farm’ mantra. I wonder, will those same morons still be peddling the same line post January, if we still in fact have a squad capable of competitive CCC football?

 

Face the facts (as we all dish the speculation which you cannot blame us for, considering the media black out and intelligence-insulting spin drip fed to the poorly written media!), we are sat at the foot of the table, hovering above the relegation spots, with a pathetic goal difference of minus 14 (equal to Charlton), second only to Doncaster with minus 16 and we look set to lose the only 2 glimmers of hope (i.e. Very last youth players of worth who have barely broken through) in the forms of Lallana and Surman (if rumours are to be believed).

 

Defend that!! Oh, we can’t afford them? We have a high wage bill? (considering 85% are on low, youth team wages) We have no other choice? (A reserve squad of questionable competency – whether capable and not quite ready, or just not quite up to standard, or just a few seasons away from the end product, or in need of experience to learn from), Pearson and Crouch would have sent us into admin.? We had to use inexperienced Dutch coaches from the lower realms because someone told Lowe they would work wonders with our kids? Hockaday and Henderson are our secret saviours because they have Lowe’s ear and have aspirations for managing the first team? Who knows – the latter wouldn’t surprise me, and Lowe’s that pig headed and arrogant that he’d ignore the lesson which should have been learnt post Wigley, Gray and relegation. It’s like Groundhog day in the CCC.

[buctootim]

It’s funny/tragic to see so many fence sitting fans who supported Lowe post relegation still persisting to support his failing regime in it’s second term of failure. Some of the reasoning and defence against ridiculous odds is obscure to say the least and most debate laughable from those peddling his worn out ‘youth production farm’ mantra. I wonder, will those same morons still be peddling the same line post January, if we still in fact have a squad capable of competitive CCC football?

 

Face the facts (as we all dish the speculation which you cannot blame us for, considering the media black out and intelligence-insulting spin drip fed to the poorly written media!), we are sat at the foot of the table, hovering above the relegation spots, with a pathetic goal difference of minus 14 (equal to Charlton), second only to Doncaster with minus 16 and we look set to lose the only 2 glimmers of hope (i.e. Very last youth players of worth who have barely broken through) in the forms of Lallana and Surman (if rumours are to be believed).

 

Defend that!! Oh, we can’t afford them? We have a high wage bill? (considering 85% are on low, youth team wages) We have no other choice? (A reserve squad of questionable competency – whether capable and not quite ready, or just not quite up to standard, or just a few seasons away from the end product, or in need of experience to learn from), Pearson and Crouch would have sent us into admin.? We had to use inexperienced Dutch coaches from the lower realms because someone told Lowe they would work wonders with our kids? Hockaday and Henderson are our secret saviours because they have Lowe’s ear and have aspirations for managing the first team? Who knows – the latter wouldn’t surprise me, and Lowe’s that pig headed and arrogant that he’d ignore the lesson which should have been learnt post Wigley, Gray and relegation. It’s like Groundhog day in the CCC.

 

Like I said, big on *****ing, short on solutions

[Wes Tender]

Oh dear Wes. If only you had half the brains you like to think you have .

 

....i'd still have twice the brains you have.

[slickmick]

.........goes to Buctootim. He was the one making the comparisons.

 

Where's the contradiction? If JP's record achieved in the same number of games that Pearson had, was applied to the end of last season, then we would have been relegated. It is those who say that Pearson kept us up by the skin of our teeth that are disingenuous because he had inherited his position in the league as a result of what Burley, Dodd and Gorman had left him. If you like, conversely, if Pearson's results were substituted for JP's at the start of this season, we would still have been ahead of where we are now, 11th place if I recall what I had worked out on another thread.

 

I don't think that anybody would have been calling for JP's head under those circumstances.

 

Would JP have been able to get the same points last season as Pearson, under the same circumstances ?

Would Pearson have been able to get the same points as JP under the same circumstances this season ?

Know one knows, so its a stupid thing to debate about.

[buctootim]

Well done Wes. A killer retort. You must be very proud.

 

This is my first log on to this site for weeks. Its a pity to see what a graveyard it has become. You, Gordon Mockles and Alpine have largely destroyed this site. Posters have voted with their feet. No doubt you think this is because they cant handle your superior insight and arguing skills. In fact its for the same reason people dont allow themselves to get drawn into discussions with the down and outs at train stations - its a pointless exercise - a dialogue of the deaf.

[Wes Tender]

Well done Wes. A killer retort. You must be very proud.

 

This is my first log on to this site for weeks. Its a pity to see what a graveyard it has become. You, Gordon Mockles and Alpine have largely destroyed this site. Posters have voted with their feet. No doubt you think this is because they cant handle your superior insight and arguing skills. In fact its for the same reason people dont allow themselves to get drawn into discussions with the down and outs at train stations - its a pointless exercise - a dialogue of the deaf.

 

I replied to you in the same manner that you posted to me. It doesn't give me pleasure adopting that line, but then again it was an arrogance for you to put yourself up as a qualified arbiter of how clever somebody else may or not be, so please consider that next time.

 

If you had bothered to log on more frequently and therefore had more of a feel to the situation on here as a result, an alternative conclusion might be that there is just a sense of total frustration with most. Frustration that the situation that exists cannot be altered much, so people feel helpless. Everything has been pretty much debated to death and no changes have resulted. Until January, when there will be another round of hand wringing if we sell off our best players (again) there isn't much to say, apart from having to argue the toss with those who somehow believe that everything is just fine and who try to rewrite recent history.

 

No doubt we are also responsible for the declining numbers at the home games too, unless you would care to share your wisdom with us as to what you think the true reason is for that.

[mprobert]

A few conclusions to be drawn from this thread so far:

 

1. The vote is still about 50/50 ...not exactly enough for Jan to throw himself on his sword

2. Only around 12% of people who read the thread can be @rsed to vote (unless everyone who has voted just keeps looking at the thread again - we're not all that short of things to do are we?)

3. No matter what the subject, some people have to insist that they know more than anyone else/ are a better supporter, and will abuse anyone who dares to think otherwise

[Whitey Grandad]

A few conclusions to be drawn from this thread so far:

 

1. The vote is still about 50/50 ...not exactly enough for Jan to throw himself on his sword

2. Only around 12% of people who read the thread can be @rsed to vote (unless everyone who has voted just keeps looking at the thread again - we're not all that short of things to do are we?)

3. No matter what the subject, some people have to insist that they know more than anyone else/ are a better supporter, and will abuse anyone who dares to think otherwise

Could it be that they don't want to pay the £5 and so can't vote?

[saint1977]

A few conclusions to be drawn from this thread so far:

 

1. The vote is still about 50/50 ...not exactly enough for Jan to throw himself on his sword

2. Only around 12% of people who read the thread can be @rsed to vote (unless everyone who has voted just keeps looking at the thread again - we're not all that short of things to do are we?)

3. No matter what the subject, some people have to insist that they know more than anyone else/ are a better supporter, and will abuse anyone who dares to think otherwise

 

It's a reflection of the fact JP has a hugely challenging job on his hands. We're not getting pulped 5-0 every week but we need more than isolated, if convincing wins to stay up, some foul 1-0 wins where we have to be a bit unpleasant to play against are sadly a CCC neccesity. I have no urge to see JP sacked but voted no simply because I don't think the gamble was right for the urgent circumstances - there isn't a Hoddle or WGS or any Sky money to bail us out of this experiment. By the same token, JP isn't doing disasterously badly either but I'd like to see him maximise what he has and 433 isn't the only game in town. JP seems like a decent guy and I would get a lot of pleasure from seeing him keep us up, the club gets taken over, JP brings in some bargains from the Dutch market and finish in the CCC top 6 (that's my dream version).

[mprobert]

Could it be that they don't want to pay the £5 and so can't vote?

Yes

[Village Saint]

Simple question.

 

We are getting progressively worse and have been doing so, bar one or two exceptions, since the third match of the season.

 

We are one dimensional, incapable of varying our tactics, flacid and uninspiring.

 

I tell you what try going to a game or two and you might learn something. We are playing the most entertaining football we have since Le Tiss was here. We have the most committed players we have had in years. It was an absolute privilege to see the way they battled back at Burnley. Against currently the strongest side in the Division we came back from 3 down with a completely different approach to put them to the sword and very nearly got something from the game. The side develops with every performance. Of course they aren't yet getting the results we ultimately want. They are kids. But the improvement with every game is obvious to anyone with an inkling about football. We are so reminiscent of the Wolves side from last season it is frightening.

[Legod Third Coming]

It's a reflection of the fact JP has a hugely challenging job on his hands. We're not getting pulped 5-0 every week but we need more than isolated, if convincing wins to stay up, some foul 1-0 wins where we have to be a bit unpleasant to play against are sadly a CCC neccesity. I have no urge to see JP sacked but voted no simply because I don't think the gamble was right for the urgent circumstances - there isn't a Hoddle or WGS or any Sky money to bail us out of this experiment. By the same token, JP isn't doing disasterously badly either but I'd like to see him maximise what he has and 433 isn't the only game in town. JP seems like a decent guy and I would get a lot of pleasure from seeing him keep us up, the club gets taken over, JP brings in some bargains from the Dutch market and finish in the CCC top 6 (that's my dream version).

 

I don't see the 'urgency' here.

Whether you agree with the plan or not, it is long-term.

Therefore, what are 23 games in the scheme of a long-tern plan?

The problem with football - as poor old Incey has found out - is that there is no long-term thinking any more.

I personally think the plan would have much more support if Lowe hadn't come up with it.

JP aside, the idea of growing our own talent is a no-brainer. Pretty much every club wishes it had the capicity to grow its own.

[NickG]

.........goes to Buctootim. He was the one making the comparisons.

 

Where's the contradiction? If JP's record achieved in the same number of games that Pearson had, was applied to the end of last season, then we would have been relegated. It is those who say that Pearson kept us up by the skin of our teeth that are disingenuous because he had inherited his position in the league as a result of what Burley, Dodd and Gorman had left him. If you like, conversely, if Pearson's results were substituted for JP's at the start of this season, we would still have been ahead of where we are now, 11th place if I recall what I had worked out on another thread.

 

I don't think that anybody would have been calling for JP's head under those circumstances.

 

what you seem to keep forgetting is the squad he inherited -of half decent players -who only a couple of months before were doing fine.

[krissyboy31]

what you seem to keep forgetting is the squad he inherited -of half decent players -who only a couple of months before were doing fine.

 

When Rasiak and Skacel were there.

[NickG]

and still had Saga, John, J Wright, Licka, Idiakez, Viafara. Hammil, Lucketti, R Wright, Safri, Idiakez and Vignal.

[CB Fry]

When Rasiak and Skacel were in the squad, but barely playing at all.

 

 

Fixed it for you.

[krissyboy31]

I think, doing fine is an exageration. Up until November they were doing OK but should have been doing much better. The last 6 weeks of Burley's reign and the whole of Dodd and Gorman's was a complete disaster and we nosedived towards relegation with confidence on the floor. NP restored confidence in players like Euell and brought in Richard Wright, Lucketti and Perry and turned it around.

 

BUT this thread is not about NP, it's about Poortvliet and whether we have confidence in him. I personally have lost confidence because he is not getting the best out of the team he has available because he can not organise his defence and he is unable or unwilling to change tactics to suit the situation. He is a one trick pony.

[benjii]

I tell you what try going to a game or two and you might learn something. We are playing the most entertaining football we have since Le Tiss was here. We have the most committed players we have had in years. It was an absolute privilege to see the way they battled back at Burnley. Against currently the strongest side in the Division we came back from 3 down with a completely different approach to put them to the sword and very nearly got something from the game. The side develops with every performance. Of course they aren't yet getting the results we ultimately want. They are kids. But the improvement with every game is obvious to anyone with an inkling about football. We are so reminiscent of the Wolves side from last season it is frightening.

 

This is utter tripe.

 

We played much better football under Redknapp than we do now in the CCC and we played football under Burley in the play-off season as well as at times towards the end of last season.

 

Frankly, who cares anyway? That's not the point. The point is that we're getting worse and worse, that the manager is starting to make himself look a bit odd for several reasons and has also publically admitted that about half the first team appear to have motivational problems. And you're saying they are the most committed? Give me a break. About ahlf of the them are playing for a move and the other half are having the stuffing knocked out of them.

 

I have been to plenty of games this season thanks. The only time I have seen this entertaining football was for 45 minutes at Cardiff, for 45 minutes v Brum in the league, for the match v Brum in the cup, for about half an hour against QPR and er.... apart from that it's been prett insipid, boring, unentertaining guff to be honest. Oh actually, the West Ham friendly was OK and I suppose we must have played well at Reading (didn't go to that, was out of the country) and Derby.

 

In other words we did well at the start of the season have had a couple of freak results and are now getting worse IMO.

 

I can't remember ever witnessing many worse performances than Bristol City at home, Barnsley at home, Blackpool at home, Palace away, Burnley away (we battled back because they chilled out - and when you say "battled back" you're still talking about a loss). Even in the worst days of Burley or Wigley we were still capable of scoring a goal. Without Holmes or a right winger we look singularly incapable of doing that.

 

"Develop with every performance" - you must be mental.

Edited 16 December, 2008 by benjii

[NickG]

still place myself in the "jury out" group for Jan.

 

But few things;

 

making most of players available - half of these would have struggled to get into the reserves of a team that escaped relegation by 20 mins last season.

 

Jan has stuck with systems too long at times, mainly early on when think he felt changing it would destroy the young players confidence.

 

Jan has however recently made changes at half time that have made a difference, e.g. on Saturday I listened to 5live commentry for a change and they actually said Jan has shown astute tactical changes for 2nd half.

 

NP seems to be being turned into a legend in the James Dean dying early mould - he had a lot of solid draws making us harder to beat, but also Hull, then Burnley at home when we could have moved up towards safety and were appalling.

 

I think NP should have been kept. I think he probably did better last season than Jan would have done, but also think that Jan maybe doing better than NP would be doing this season. But we are all guessing.

[harvey]

I tell you what try going to a game or two and you might learn something. We are playing the most entertaining football we have since Le Tiss was here. We have the most committed players we have had in years. It was an absolute privilege to see the way they battled back at Burnley. Against currently the strongest side in the Division we came back from 3 down with a completely different approach to put them to the sword and very nearly got something from the game. The side develops with every performance. Of course they aren't yet getting the results we ultimately want. They are kids. But the improvement with every game is obvious to anyone with an inkling about football. We are so reminiscent of the Wolves side from last season it is frightening.

 

And I thought 'Looney Tunes' were a local pop group !!!!!!!

[Wes Tender]

I tell you what try going to a game or two and you might learn something. We are playing the most entertaining football we have since Le Tiss was here. We have the most committed players we have had in years. It was an absolute privilege to see the way they battled back at Burnley. Against currently the strongest side in the Division we came back from 3 down with a completely different approach to put them to the sword and very nearly got something from the game. The side develops with every performance. Of course they aren't yet getting the results we ultimately want. They are kids. But the improvement with every game is obvious to anyone with an inkling about football. We are so reminiscent of the Wolves side from last season it is frightening.

 

Of all the posters who have suddenly surfaced on here recently out of the blue, you're the one that I most credit with being the PR plant. No doubt you'll respond by saying that you have been a Saints fan since Ted Bates played, to justify yourself and how you used to post as somebody else on the other forums.

 

Your argument falls flat on its face where you say that the kids are improving with every game. Pray tell us when that improvement will produce a home win then. And whilst you're about it, when do you predict that we will produce 90 minutes of decent football instead of one half, whether that be the first or the second half?

[Iowsaintsfan]

not as much as i had for Pearson

[Gordon Mockles]

Like I said, big on *****ing, short on solutions

 

Big on talk, as usual. I won’t include Wilde in this example since he’s so clearly a spineless puppet, wobbling around in the shadows across the channel.

 

I wasn’t aware I needed to offer a solution for Lowe’s reoccurring incompetence. In my opinion, we were fine building on the platform in which we ended last season (without the need to fire fight the obvious catastrophe that so many hypothesized would happen!) Simple as that.

 

This is my first log on to this site for weeks.

 

And how we've missed you!

 

Its a pity to see what a graveyard it has become. You, Gordon Mockles and Alpine have largely destroyed this site. Posters have voted with their feet. No doubt you think this is because they cant handle your superior insight and arguing skills. In fact its for the same reason people dont allow themselves to get drawn into discussions with the down and outs at train stations - its a pointless exercise - a dialogue of the deaf.

 

Did someone hear some distant squeak?! A feeble muttering of disgruntled disagreement?! Haha. Ok, I’ll avoid the juvenile banter or engaging you too much as we’re obviously poles apart but you’re comments are priceless. Killed the forum? Us? WOW! Such a wild but amusing accusation.

 

In reality, if you’re looking for a scapegoat to blame for the dwindling lack of forum substance, I think you’ll find the misplaced opinions of the Lowe Luvvies are the chief cause. If you contest that, try taking a clipboard to a pre-match pub and ask the plethora of supporters who they blame for our current slump at the foot of the table. If you do really believe in your opinions and comments, I think you’ll be quite shocked!

 

The pointless debates and arguments attacking anyone anti-Lowe put many off, plus the influx of surreptitious posters who mysterious defended Lowe to the hilt despite his track record and refusal to change or acknowledge the fans (Agenda ridden Scooby, Somedunce, Fire Fighter, esq.) along with the wildly obscure views of yourself, Nick G/H, Alain Perrin, Jonah (who sometimes has a point), etc. put many more off. In fact, around the time Duncan Holley departed due to the sheer cacophony of meaningless squawks and personal attacks and vitriol which flooded the forum post Lowe’s return, many more posters who made a worthwhile contribution to the forum…STOPPED! It’s poorer for that.

[londonsaint1604]

In fact, around the time Duncan Holley departed due to the sheer cacophony of meaningless squawks and personal attacks and vitriol which flooded the forum post Lowe’s return, many more posters who made a worthwhile contribution to the forum…STOPPED! It’s poorer for that.

 

Haha, Lowe is responsible for the decline of this forum now!

[bungle]

Reading this thread it makes it very clear that:

 

The vast majority of our fans are total morons.

 

I feel justified in reaching this conclusion, and no doubt Gordon Mockles, alpine and the like will go and have a big cry and come out with their usual foul-mouthed abuse. To call a Saints fan a "PR Plant" is a disgrace. The level of debate on this forum is so low that there is barely a point to having a forum anymore. And that is totally the fault of complete idiots like alpine, Wes, Gordon Mockles, Arizona etc etc.

[Wes Tender]

Reading this thread it makes it very clear that:

 

The vast majority of our fans are total morons.

 

I feel justified in reaching this conclusion, and no doubt Gordon Mockles, alpine and the like will go and have a big cry and come out with their usual foul-mouthed abuse. To call a Saints fan a "PR Plant" is a disgrace. The level of debate on this forum is so low that there is barely a point to having a forum anymore. And that is totally the fault of complete idiots like alpine, Wes, Gordon Mockles, Arizona etc etc.

 

I can't speak on behalf of the others you have mentioned, but you accuse us of foul-mouthed abuse. I challenge you to quote anything I have ever written on here that amounts to foul-mouthed abuse. Put up or shut up. Do you not find it at all ironic that having accused us of it, you do so yourself by calling us morons and idiots?

 

And as for your opinion that calling somebody a PR plant is a disgrace, then presumably you will also call the employment of PR plants by the current chairman a disgrace too, in the interests of even-handedness. Had he not done that, then there would not be the suspicion that he is doing it again.

 

If the level of debate is so low on this forum, what are you as a contributor doing to improve it, apart from hurling petulant insults at others whose opinions you don't share?

 

As others have said and I paraphrase, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[Matt SFC]

I have full faith in Jan.

He is doing well in a very difficult job, and at times is getting the very best out of our squad. However consistentcy is the key, as is holding on to key players in January.

[Wade Garrett]

No confidence in Jan, no confidence in the board.

 

Jan is being set up by Lowe as the fall guy here.

 

If Jan is sacked then once again Lowe's judgement, quite rightly, will be called into question. If one goes, they should both go.

[Wade Garrett]

Reading this thread it makes it very clear that:

 

The vast majority of our fans are total morons.

 

I feel justified in reaching this conclusion, and no doubt Gordon Mockles, alpine and the like will go and have a big cry and come out with their usual foul-mouthed abuse. To call a Saints fan a "PR Plant" is a disgrace. The level of debate on this forum is so low that there is barely a point to having a forum anymore. And that is totally the fault of complete idiots like alpine, Wes, Gordon Mockles, Arizona etc etc.

 

2,517 posts - mostly drivel. Who's the moron?

 

Get out more.

[London Saint]

202 vs 203

 

couldnt be much tighter!

[John Smith]

Reading this thread it makes it very clear that:

 

The vast majority of our fans are total morons.

 

I feel justified in reaching this conclusion, and no doubt Gordon Mockles, alpine and the like will go and have a big cry and come out with their usual foul-mouthed abuse. To call a Saints fan a "PR Plant" is a disgrace. The level of debate on this forum is so low that there is barely a point to having a forum anymore. And that is totally the fault of complete idiots like alpine, Wes, Gordon Mockles, Arizona etc etc.

 

Absolutely, and it is in part down to these morons that Lowe has HAD to intervene and PAY for posters to support this club.

 

If it weren't for these 'moronic' fans, the club wouldn't be spending out on these PR companies, who, I must say, do an excellent job in promoting Lowes brilliant business acumen. In fact, it is thought, that Barclay's ONLY reason for continuously backing SLH is because Lowes WH Ireland could bankroll this entire company. The Business managers at Barclays quite often phone Lowe for advice, allegedly, true, this isn't cast as money into SLH, but it does build up a good relationship between the two.

 

So, I say welcome to those fabulous PR people, at least they know the man that is Lowe, unlike us morons on this site!

[Wes Tender]

I feel justified in reaching this conclusion, and no doubt Gordon Mockles, alpine and the like will go and have a big cry and come out with their usual foul-mouthed abuse.

 

Bungle:Billy Davies is a vile c*nt, and is not welcome at this football club.

 

Pot and kettle.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Reading this thread it makes it very clear that:

 

The vast majority of our fans are total morons.

 

The level of debate on this forum is so low that there is barely a point to having a forum anymore. And that is totally the fault of complete idiots like alpine, Wes, Gordon Mockles, Arizona etc etc.

 

..but not your fault at all of course, although you call "the vast majority of our fans" total morons, just because you don't like (let's say) half of what is posted on an internet forum.

[Windmill Arm 2]

Could it be that they don't want to pay the £5 and so can't vote?

 

I haven't paid £5 and still got to vote????

I wont be paying £5 either......not until Lowe is out of this club forever. (Oh and Bungle)

[derry]

Tactically naive, can't win at home, publishes a system that the players aren't playing. Lopsided, no width or effective attacking down the right side, no forward right sided player, consequently our right side defence is wide open, because of that we are vulnerable on our left far post when outnumbered.

 

No he isn't doing a good job.

Edited 17 December, 2008 by derry

[saint1977]

I don't see the 'urgency' here.

Whether you agree with the plan or not, it is long-term.

Therefore, what are 23 games in the scheme of a long-tern plan?

The problem with football - as poor old Incey has found out - is that there is no long-term thinking any more.

I personally think the plan would have much more support if Lowe hadn't come up with it.

JP aside, the idea of growing our own talent is a no-brainer. Pretty much every club wishes it had the capicity to grow its own.

 

It's marketed as a strategy and I can understand why but people don't realise how hard it is to run a proper academy at the high standard we have, let alone when you don't have the Sky PL money to support it. I'm talking £ms a year. The more stretched you are, the more the quality of the provision dilutes and the less Bales and Theos you attract, let alone eing able to sell them on. Best to see this as short-term neccessity to steady the ship and hope other clubs hit even worse difficulties - Charlton etc as parachute payments end and the recession hit home.

[Charlie Wayman]

The pity is he seems like a nice fella. On the other hand incey wincey has been shown the door on the end of a boot so

 

Time to go Portalowe

[Whitey Grandad]

Time to go Portalowe

That has a pleasing ring to it.

[benjii]

202 vs 203

 

couldnt be much tighter!

 

It is indeed the proverbial gnat's growler.

[mprobert]

This thread seems to have gone very quiet since the "Yes" votes took a narrow lead.

 

It will be interesting to see how the Forest result changes things - either way!

[Gordon Mockles]

Reading this thread it makes it very clear that:

 

The vast majority of our fans are total morons.

 

I feel justified in reaching this conclusion, and no doubt Gordon Mockles, alpine and the like will go and have a big cry and come out with their usual foul-mouthed abuse. To call a Saints fan a "PR Plant" is a disgrace. The level of debate on this forum is so low that there is barely a point to having a forum anymore. And that is totally the fault of complete idiots like alpine, Wes, Gordon Mockles, Arizona etc etc.

 

I'd feel insulted if that came from anyone who warrants a modicum of respect. Luckily, from the content of most of your posts, you fall into the "don't suffer fools lightly" category and pale into insignificance, amongst others!

[itchen]

.........goes to Buctootim. He was the one making the comparisons.

 

Where's the contradiction? If JP's record achieved in the same number of games that Pearson had, was applied to the end of last season, then we would have been relegated. It is those who say that Pearson kept us up by the skin of our teeth that are disingenuous because he had inherited his position in the league as a result of what Burley, Dodd and Gorman had left him. If you like, conversely, if Pearson's results were substituted for JP's at the start of this season, we would still have been ahead of where we are now, 11th place if I recall what I had worked out on another thread.

 

I don't think that anybody would have been calling for JP's head under those circumstances.

 

But Pearson had a squad of experienced players many of whom had played at international level. By contrast, circumstances (and we're all sick of arguing how these circumstances came about) leave the club with no choice but to play kids who, with one or two exceptions, probably could do with another year or two in the reserves. In addition to that key players like Holmes, Schneiderlin and Euell have spent much of the season either injured or suspended. In a squad as light as ours these things are going to make a difference.

 

I still have faith that Jan can do as well with the resources at his disposal as anybody else we are likely to get. Just wishing that we weren't where we are is not going to make our chronic financial situation go away. Sacking Poortvliet would make no sense whatsoever.

[Whitey Grandad]

All these comparisons between Poortvliet and Pearson are academic. In my opinion keeping Pearson would have been a much better option but now that we are stuck with Poortvliet I don't see the point of changing him at this stage. It's difficult to find a suitable manager that's available and cheap at the moment, but as they say 'it doesn't matter who you are, a few defeats on the spin and you're looking over your shoulder'

[Wes Tender]

But Pearson had a squad of experienced players many of whom had played at international level. By contrast, circumstances (and we're all sick of arguing how these circumstances came about) leave the club with no choice but to play kids who, with one or two exceptions, probably could do with another year or two in the reserves. In addition to that key players like Holmes, Schneiderlin and Euell have spent much of the season either injured or suspended. In a squad as light as ours these things are going to make a difference.

 

I still have faith that Jan can do as well with the resources at his disposal as anybody else we are likely to get. Just wishing that we weren't where we are is not going to make our chronic financial situation go away. Sacking Poortvliet would make no sense whatsoever.

 

The highlighted bit is the contentious point. As IMO you correctly surmise, most of the kids could have done with another year or two in the reserves, or loaned out for experience. One of the key players you mentioned (Euell) is an old experienced hand as is Scacel and even when available they weren't played until recently. However we have managed to afford Wotton and Perry quite cheaply, although they themselves have not been ever present either, so often the team was too full of raw kids and lacked experience and balance.

 

When you consider the loans brought in and the number of those who have either been a flop or who have only just recovered from injury, or indeed have not even played for us yet, it is plain that JPs main failing has been on the basis of inexperience of what was required to be effective in this division.

 

Sacking Poortvliet might well make sense depending on who replaced him.

[Legod Third Coming]

The highlighted bit is the contentious point. As IMO you correctly surmise, most of the kids could have done with another year or two in the reserves, or loaned out for experience. One of the key players you mentioned (Euell) is an old experienced hand as is Scacel and even when available they weren't played until recently. However we have managed to afford Wotton and Perry quite cheaply, although they themselves have not been ever present either, so often the team was too full of raw kids and lacked experience and balance.

 

When you consider the loans brought in and the number of those who have either been a flop or who have only just recovered from injury, or indeed have not even played for us yet, it is plain that JPs main failing has been on the basis of inexperience of what was required to be effective in this division.

 

Sacking Poortvliet might well make sense depending on who replaced him.

 

That assumes that JP had some or all of the say in who was brought in. Given that we were led to believe Spiderman had been tracked for some time...

[Alain Perrin]

To be honest calling someone a "PR Plant" because they hold a different opinion is just a playground taunt. People, regardless of their opinions, should be welcomed to this board if it is not to become a redundant backwater.

 

Lowe's attempt to manipulate the SaintsForever forum backfired big time, but if you honestly believe that Wilde / Crouch et al. didn't use internet forums either through making best buddies with Keith Legg or getting Roger the office boy to do it, you're deluding yourself.

 

I don't know, but I doubt Lowe is doing the same now. Several reasons:

 

1) This board isn't the opinion shaper it once was.

2) There's no immediate threat to his leadership

3) Once bitten, twice shy etc.

 

And, for what it is worth, I agree with most of what Village Saint was saying. This year has been a struggle under difficult financial circumstances, but there have been flashes of brilliance amongst the mediocrity. Personally I still believe that the experiment can work.

[Wes Tender]

That assumes that JP had some or all of the say in who was brought in. Given that we were led to believe Spiderman had been tracked for some time...

 

Whether the decision on who was brought in was made by JP or Lowe or somebody else, all it does is highlight further that JP is inexperienced in this division and in English football. On that basis, he might not be to blame, but then neither should he have been appointed manager if he wasn't capable of making those choices and selections himself.

[Legod Third Coming]

Whether the decision on who was brought in was made by JP or Lowe or somebody else, all it does is highlight further that JP is inexperienced in this division and in English football. On that basis, he might not be to blame, but then neither should he have been appointed manager if he wasn't capable of making those choices and selections himself.

 

But that's like asking a turkey to vote for Xmas if you were expecting Rupert to pick an old fashioned manager who wants control over such things!!!

[Thedelldays]

But that's like asking a turkey to vote for Xmas if you were expecting Rupert to pick an old fashioned manager who wants control over such things!!!

lol

[Tamesaint]

After today ??? No way