Do you have any confidence in Poortvliet?

[krissyboy31]

I was ready to cut him some slack because I believed some of the spin about him being able to organise and motivate young players into playing to their full potential. Now, maybe he is and their full potential isn't up to much, or he his not up to the job. Ever way the results speak for themselves and if something doesn't change soon we are going down.

 

Like another thread states, it's not his fault that he is in this position. Lowe hired him. However I have lost whatever confidence I had in him at the start of the season, and IMO we need a new British manager, with plenty of CCC experience ASAP or we're doomed.

[St Marco]

50-50 pretty much think that is pretty good reflection of opinions, very mixed right now could go either way.

[Legod Third Coming]

50-50 pretty much think that is pretty good reflection of opinions, very mixed right now could go either way.

 

I would say on the back of two poor results that this is interresting. Asked after Reading and Plymouth...

[CB Fry]

I would say on the back of two poor results that this is interresting. Asked after Reading and Plymouth...

 

 

But the fact that the pessismism has come a few games after Reading is significant.

 

Remember the "learn from" bad results and "build on" good results theory.

 

Well we've had two stand out good results - Derby away and Reading away and we've managed to build on neither of them and now we sit above the trapdoor with the worst form of our immediate competitors.

 

So yes, after the Reading game, confidence was sky high, and after the Reading game everyone would have slaughted anyone who said we wouldn't have "pushed on" from there. But we haven't.

 

This suggests nothing except the good performances are the exception rather than the rule.

 

Or, if you like, the freaky fluke results that all clubs in this division benefit from. The fact that we've failed to build on either suggest the defeats and the aimless draws are the norm and the great wins are not the norm.

 

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Give Saints enough games and we'll win the odd one. But fundementally we're not good enough.

 

And, anyway, who was dancing the streets after a home goalless draw with Plymouth?

[Safehands]

I have little confidence in JP, and even less confidence in the PLC chairman who appointed him.

 

If one goes, they should both go.

[once_bitterne]

No tactics

No Knowledge

No Bottle

 

At least Burley had one of those three.....

[docker-p]

Wrong bloke at the wrong time.

But thats the way Lowe does things.

[saint1977]

I posted in a thread a week or two back that Lowe looks to me like somebody with a major-league messiah complex. He appears to genuinely believe that his approach is the right one, the only right one, and he'll pursue it to the last. Hence Poortvliet's appointment in the first place. And if you expect a sudden outbreak of pragmatism from him then I'm afraid you'll be sorely disappointed.

 

For what it's worth, I'm voting no on the poll, but I'd agree with many others that the coach isn't the correct target of our wrath.

 

Sums up my feelings very well. JP comes across as a decent bloke, not convinced he's the man for a CCC relegation battle but you won't hear me singing for his head at SMS. That is reserved for our "friends" in the SFC boardroom.

[saint1977]

But the fact that the pessismism has come a few games after Reading is significant.

 

Remember the "learn from" bad results and "build on" good results theory.

 

Well we've had two stand out good results - Derby away and Reading away and we've managed to build on neither of them and now we sit above the trapdoor with the worst form of our immediate competitors.

 

So yes, after the Reading game, confidence was sky high, and after the Reading game everyone would have slaughted anyone who said we wouldn't have "pushed on" from there. But we haven't.

 

This suggests nothing except the good performances are the exception rather than the rule.

 

Or, if you like, the freaky fluke results that all clubs in this division benefit from. The fact that we've failed to build on either suggest the defeats and the aimless draws are the norm and the great wins are not the norm.

 

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Give Saints enough games and we'll win the odd one. But fundementally we're not good enough.

 

And, anyway, who was dancing the streets after a home goalless draw with Plymouth?

 

This and Safehands's post below it are totally on the money.

[mprobert]

This and Safehands's post below it are totally on the money.

...according to half the fans

[Legod Third Coming]

But the fact that the pessismism has come a few games after Reading is significant.

 

Remember the "learn from" bad results and "build on" good results theory.

 

Well we've had two stand out good results - Derby away and Reading away and we've managed to build on neither of them and now we sit above the trapdoor with the worst form of our immediate competitors.

 

So yes, after the Reading game, confidence was sky high, and after the Reading game everyone would have slaughted anyone who said we wouldn't have "pushed on" from there. But we haven't.

 

This suggests nothing except the good performances are the exception rather than the rule.

 

Or, if you like, the freaky fluke results that all clubs in this division benefit from. The fact that we've failed to build on either suggest the defeats and the aimless draws are the norm and the great wins are not the norm.

 

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Give Saints enough games and we'll win the odd one. But fundementally we're not good enough.

 

And, anyway, who was dancing the streets after a home goalless draw with Plymouth?

 

We'll have to agree to disagree.

While I think you are right - we did not build on Derby or Reading - to my mind we have a team that has had a mountain of learning to climb.

 

Following the Derby victory we went into Blackpool at home as favourites and were undone - maybe because we couldn't handle being favourites?

 

We went into Reading without a hope and slaughtered them - 2-1 was the most flattering scoreline ever! Maybe because we had nothing to lose?

 

People say that it is the coach's job to prepare players mentally - but that is a con. Nothing can prepare a player for the mental reality of situations other than playing - what you can practice and train for is the technical, skills element and hope that this is applied correctly every time.

 

Belief and confidence come from applying the technical skills and getting the right result, over and over and over. And because we have kids and players who are not the best in the world, they will make frequent mistakes - that's a facet of having no money. And therefore their confidence is constantly under pressure.

 

I have seen McGoldrick miss a hatful of one-on-ones that Stern John or Rasiak would have buried. Is that the coach/manager's fault?

 

Cos that's what we're dealing with here - a team of young professionals learning their trade supported by three/four fit experienced pros.

 

Is it fair to blame the coach when they make basic errors like James did against Palace? (And that is no criticism of James, that's just what happens when you are young and learning the game).

 

Can JP legislate for players simply not doing the job they have been directed to do? That happens when you have players who are not yet experienced and disciplined enough to carry out their role.

[JustMike]

no i dont but then again, i doubt anyone else could do a job with RL interfearing and undermining him.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

 

People say that it is the coach's job to prepare players mentally - but that is a con. Nothing can prepare a player for the mental reality of situations other than playing - what you can practice and train for is the technical, skills element and hope that this is applied correctly every time.

 

Why then is it the case that frequently the great skillfull players DO NOT make the best managers, but often the best managers were not fantastic players, but were among the strongest characters?

 

Tell me you were not one of those who lauded Woodward's appointment because "he's a winner", and that he would get a winner's mentality across to the players? Did you poo-poo the idea of sports psychology? I bet you didn't.

[saint1977]

...according to half the fans

 

To be honest, those that think this experiment is going to end in anything other than relegation are probably 5-10% inside SMS and slightly more, maybe 15% on this board. The sad thing is that 3-4 good CCC pros and we could be OK but the balance is wrong and we will not close enough games out over a season. Our away form is very hit and miss, the Reading performance was the high watermark so we need plenty of home wins but we've only had the one and to be honest Norwich were by far the better side before Robertson's corker out of the blue and Skatefanovic's sending off after the penalty award.

 

9 or 10 isloated wins over a season will not keep us up, however hard earned they are by our youngsters. In particular, the striker situation is worrying and it is hard to see where the goals are going to come from.

[corsacar saint]

I like the guy as a person, but feel he is somewhat losing the plot. Then having Lowe as

your boss is enough to drag anybody down.

[Long Shot]

Decent bloke, would be happy to have him in charge of the youth or the academy but not up to life in the CCC.

[um pahars]

Decent bloke, would be happy to have him in charge of the youth or the academy but not up to life in the CCC.

 

A very interesting shout.

 

I like the way Jan comes across and he seems a very honest fella, so would have no qualms about him being in charge of the youth/academy set up.

 

(as long as that doesn't involve Hockaday or Henderson stepping up to take his place!!!).

[Legod Third Coming]

Why then is it the case that frequently the great skillfull players DO NOT make the best managers, but often the best managers were not fantastic players, but were among the strongest characters?

 

Tell me you were not one of those who lauded Woodward's appointment because "he's a winner", and that he would get a winner's mentality across to the players? Did you poo-poo the idea of sports psychology? I bet you didn't.

 

Er?

 

The best managers needn't have been even half decent players.

 

The point I was making is that the best players (skillful or otherwise) are those that have the mental strength as well as (indeed instead of) some technical skills.

 

And that because we have a team of young and inexperienced professionals we can't expect that they won't make mistakes. No disrespect to them, but if you pay peanuts...

[chi saint]

The game against Notts Forest will be the crucial game for Jan, lose in the same manner as this Saturday I think he'll be sacked, I can't see him walking, win and he'll stay a while longer.

[Whitey Grandad]

Is it fair to blame the coach when they make basic errors like James did against Palace? (And that is no criticism of James, that's just what happens when you are young and learning the game).

 

Can JP legislate for players simply not doing the job they have been directed to do? That happens when you have players who are not yet experienced and disciplined enough to carry out their role.

It is absolutely the coach's fault. It is fundamental that you don't let the ball bounce! If you can't remember that then you shouldn't be playing.

[Legod Third Coming]

It is absolutely the coach's fault. It is fundamental that you don't let the ball bounce! If you can't remember that then you shouldn't be playing.

 

Do you seriously think that Lloyd James doesn't know that??

 

He screwed up.

 

What do you want a manager to do? Put a kit on and play??

 

James often gets the wrong side, commits himelf too early. McGoldrick leans back when he shoots. Lallana doesn't strike through the ball, Davis drops it on crosses...

 

Is this the manager's fault??

 

Or the result of having not very good players because we are in the CCC and playing the cheapest players that the Chairman believes can keep us up?

[Whitey Grandad]

Do you seriously think that Lloyd James doesn't know that??

 

He screwed up.

 

What do you want a manager to do? Put a kit on and play??

 

James often gets the wrong side, commits himelf too early. McGoldrick leans back when he shoots. Lallana doesn't strike through the ball, Davis drops it on crosses...

 

Is this the manager's fault??

 

Or the result of having not very good players because we are in the CCC and playing the cheapest players that the Chairman believes can keep us up?

These are all basic errors that should have been coached out of them before letting them play. I don't see players from other teams making them. And another thing... why is it that our players keep slipping over at St. Mary's? It happens once or twice every home game and could have cost us a goal against Sheff Weds. It's rare for an opposition player to do it.

[Legod Third Coming]

These are all basic errors that should have been coached out of them before letting them play. I don't see players from other teams making them. And another thing... why is it that our players keep slipping over at St. Mary's? It happens once or twice every home game and could have cost us a goal against Sheff Weds. It's rare for an opposition player to do it.

 

You can hardly blame a bloke who's been here for four months why our players are making basic errors...

 

Maybe they just ain't that good...

 

Altho, they haver 100% support from me because they are at least normally trying hard.

[buctootim]

Its funny /tragic to see that many of those calling for JP's head are the same posters who called for Burley's head, Lowe, Wilde, Crouch and McMenemy and also didnt want Pearson appointed. This is just another episode in the 'long on complaints, short on solutions' *****fest.

 

IMO for what its worth JP has done a pretty good job with largely last seasons reserves and youth players. Even if we just stay where we are (and I reckon we'll get midtable) it will be better than Pearson achieved with much more resource - and no that isnt a pop at Pearson who I thought did an alright job.

[Whitey Grandad]

You can hardly blame a bloke who's been here for four months why our players are making basic errors...

 

Maybe they just ain't that good...

 

Altho, they haver 100% support from me because they are at least normally trying hard.

One game would be enough to get the basics right. Look at what Rednapp achieved at Tottenham.

[buctootim]

One game would be enough to get the basics right. Look at what Rednapp achieved at Tottenham.

 

If you cant see that that the fundamental critical difference is that Tottenham have an experienced premier standard £100m squad and we have a bunch a youngsters learning their trade then there is really no hope.

[Legod Third Coming]

One game would be enough to get the basics right. Look at what Rednapp achieved at Tottenham.

 

Different kettle of fish. There good players were not pulling their weight for the former manager. Here, players who are probably not good enough for the first team but are learning the hard way and being exposed.

 

Example, look what happened when Arry played the kids against Southend in the cup... "Someone keeps telling me these kids are good enough, they're not yet" he said...

 

How prophetic?

 

Certainly, when introducing kids, you need to do it into a successful team, not hope that they can salvage a club!!

[NickG]

One game would be enough to get the basics right. Look at what Rednapp achieved at Tottenham.

 

bit different sorting out likes of Woodgate, Lennon, Jenas, Bentley, Boatang, Bale, Gilberto, Ledley King, Bent etc!

[Whitey Grandad]

Example, look what happened when Arry played the kids against Southend in the cup... "Someone keeps telling me these kids are good enough, they're not yet" he said...

 

How prophetic?

 

Certainly, when introducing kids, you need to do it into a successful team, not hope that they can salvage a club!!

I have always understood that 'Arry did it to prove a point to Lowe. (did you mean Mansfield?). I agree that you should only introduce inexperienced players into a settled, established team. It used to be done in the end-of-season games, when we were safe (oh, happy days!)

[Legod Third Coming]

I have always understood that 'Arry did it to prove a point to Lowe. (did you mean Mansfield?). I agree that you should only introduce inexperienced players into a settled, established team. It used to be done in the end-of-season games, when we were safe (oh, happy days!)

 

That's them! Mansfield - and I think Arry's point was well-made. Chicken's now coming home to roost...

 

That said, safety is all I want this season. Because even now Lloyd James is becoming a really good player - mistakes still, but they'll go. Same with some of the others - Cork is a find and Pearce. A fit Spiderman is classy as was Holmes before the injury.

 

All is not lost from where I'm sat. But it will be bloody hard. The fact that we are not down already with the players we have is a minor miracle in my view.

[Whitey Grandad]

bit different sorting out likes of Woodgate, Lennon, Jenas, Bentley, Boatang, Bale, Gilberto, Ledley King, Bent etc!

Of course, but they weren't playing very well before, were they? There have been countless other examples in all divisions. My point is that these basic mistakes and positional errors should have been coached out of them years ago. Most of them have been taught by professionals since schoolboy days.

[Whitey Grandad]

That's them! Mansfield - and I think Arry's point was well-made. Chicken's now coming home to roost...

 

That said, safety is all I want this season. Because even now Lloyd James is becoming a really good player - mistakes still, but they'll go. Same with some of the others - Cork is a find and Pearce. A fit Spiderman is classy as was Holmes before the injury.

 

All is not lost from where I'm sat. But it will be bloody hard. The fact that we are not down already with the players we have is a minor miracle in my view.

James is a very good prospect, but he's a long way from being a full-back. It looks to me like he's never played there before, and it shows.

[Legod Third Coming]

James is a very good prospect, but he's a long way from being a full-back. It looks to me like he's never played there before, and it shows.

 

 

Now you see I agree here, but on the Burnley commentary the two fellas asked why Cork was playing centre-back as he's a midfielder!!!

 

I hate it these days that a lot of players are no longer specialist. This is not something we do, it's something that is the 'new football' - players seem to play everywhere across the park.

 

James could be a right back. He's quick enough if he can sort his positioning out. Skillful lad though. Real shame he made the mistake at dellhurst as he was the best player up to then!!

[Whitey Grandad]

James could be a right back. He's quick enough if he can sort his positioning out. Skillful lad though. Real shame he made the mistake at dellhurst as he was the best player up to then!!

For the first time this season I was really impressed by him! At least his mistake didn't cost us any points and I don't think he'll do it again, but he's not the only one who's letting the ball bounce, Pearce also tends to do it, so perhaps our coaching is just as bad as Reading's.

[Gordon Mockles]

As I stated in an earlier thread http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6472&page=2 I do like the guy and still think he has an impossible job (how allegedly tricky is down to debate if certain rumours are to be believed). Regardless, I think Xmas is time enough and it's obviously not working. If he'd tried to adapt and change tactics and formations, rather than persisting with sole strikers who can't strike (Mc Goal drought!) and dropping experienced players in defence until desperate, or at least experimenting slightly (he has very mildly but not to any effect), I may be of a different opinion. However, I feel Jan’s hands are tied and question his level of control, which is also contentious with Lowe in the shadows so it’s difficult to determine who is entirely culpable. In any case, the manager is supposed to manage the team so he has to take responsibility.

 

I'm sick of mentioning Lowe, this is about football, but I am 95% sure Rupert is involved and imposing some meddling effect on the first team squad, all be it from the shadows (more than he should, especially as he's not even the supposed football chairmen! what a farce!). Having watched Jan's body language around Lowe pitch-side during the Sky game (Palace - when Gorre was chatting with Lowe with Jan stood aside) I believe it spoke volumes. Jan looked lost and bewildered, certainly not a manager on top of his team and in control. Ok, a lot to judge from a mere view stood beside his boss on the tele but I thought the images spoke more than some insincere words or spin emanating from club back doors, or ridiculous defence from insidious Lowe supporters in an unrealistic representation on a internet fan’s forum .

 

In many ways, it may not be entirely Jan's fault (if you're to believe that his job is made more difficult by not being allowed to exclusively manage the first team). His level of actual control is a contentious point. However, it is the prerogative of Jan to how he manages a club, he is in control of his own destiny and it is his reputation on the line. Currently, we are failing...badly! I feel sympathy if he is being used as a ‘Yes Man’. If not, then he simply isn’t up to scratch. Whilst a manager needs assistance (first team coaches, coaches, etc.), we suffer constant speculation

about the management regime tampering in football matters, whether through Lowe or other advisors and I believe this fundamentally undermines the manager (& his level of respect from his peers) and his control of the team (hence why so many British managers so vehemently

demand they attain overall control). Ok, this isn't the Dutch way but it’s an English league. I feel Jan has had a wakeup call, he realises more after his baptism of fire; more than he was initially led to believe.

 

Sorry if this seems like I have an axe to grind, I just clearly do not like Rupert Lowe talk and his politics. I do not trust the bloke and all dislike all that he stands for. Simple as that. Many may defend him but I can’t just stand in silence as our club dies. I dislike Wilde equally, for his despicable conduct and treachery alone. All men are proven failures, failing drastically again (but caring about their own egos to the total detriment

of our club. Shameful).

 

Politics aside, It would be good if we could keep Jan working with the youth as I do believe he has something to offer our club. However, we need a manager of experience and someone who can work the physical English leagues. A sound appointment that commands discipline & respect

(much like Pearson - who knows how he'd have fared as he didn't have the experience, but he seemed a wild card that had worked as he did seem to have the right attributes that, sadly, I feel Jan lacks). We certainly left last season on a high which Lowe, regrettably, destroyed in the infancy of his forlorn return. The attendances have plummeted, results have been woeful and the general feeling of hope and optimism have deserted St Mary’s (despite the warnings of so many who were berated on this forum for standing against Lowe and Wilde returning). What a leader!

 

We are inexperienced and we do not have time to keep persisting with our defensive line that is continually leaking goals, at a frighteningly scary speed (taking into account goal difference) and we should have utilized the loan system to bring in the steadying heads of experience.

The obsession with youth over experienced professionals overlooked that stigma. In essence, we did have the chance to keep things relatively solid, to keep the ball rolling where we left last season (the management that succeeded Wilde’s idiots post ‘The Hone siege’) to a certain extent, salvaging what I felt was the unsalvageable. However, if you’re to believe the spin, we’d be bankrupt, penniless and in administration by now if we were left to Crouch and co. Really?? And this is Lowe and Wilde’s saving grace and great alternative eh?! Well, excuse me if I say “No Thanks”. “F*ck off and never come back” would be more appropriate.

 

[Harry Faz]

Lowe is the problem, his ego is his number one priority, he will only run the club along his own unique and flawed view of how a footballl club should be run , hence whilst we struggle at the foot of this league, all we get from our chairman is crap about what great footballl we play. Rupert - you can keep saying its great - as a season ticket holder ive seen one win all season - so kindly keep your remarks to yourself . Jan is a pawn is this game - he isnt the driving force behind where we are - Its Lowe. Sure we have no money - but we havent got jan and his associated coaching team because they are the cheapest and only possible solution, we have them because this is what Lowe wants. So no i dont have much faith in Jan, because the whole concept comes from a man who is deeply flawed, and motivated by all the wrong reasons. Lowe is a stubborn failure - and his ego will get in the way of saving our club.

[corky morris]

Any manager needs at least a season to build a team & get a team to play in the style he wants them too.

That said there are some worrying signs with JP. I dont understand the way McGoldrick plays every week. I dont think he knows who his best back 4 are. I think he has made a number of mistakes in the loan market & ignored the fact that we have needed a right back for ages.

But to answer the question i do have some faith in him. He appears to be the kind of guy that thinks about things in a rationale & considered manner & deserves a chance to prove he has what is needed for us to survive.

We should also not forget that the team who started so brightly against Derby & Birmingham is missing Morgan, Killer & Holmes who I think if fit would have been first choices most weeks.

I stand by what i said at the start of this experiment. It is Lowe's big gamble that ultimately could cost the club its status in the Championship.

[Badger]

I stand by what i said at the start of this experiment. It is Lowe's big gamble that ultimately could cost the club its status in the Championship.

 

His "big gambles" have a record of seeing us relegated.You and I can see it,as can most people with a modicom of football knowledge.The only daft bastard oblivious to it is Lowe.

[St. Jason]

IMO for what its worth JP has done a pretty good job with largely last seasons reserves and youth players. Even if we just stay where we are (and I reckon we'll get midtable) it will be better than Pearson achieved with much more resource - and no that isnt a pop at Pearson who I thought did an alright job.

 

I still don't get this, Pearson had no resources, he tool over a team in free fall, devoid of all confidence, just been knocked out of the cup. In only 13 games with no pre-season he had to lift a battered squad, make loan signings with instant results, no bedding or setteiling in period for anyone. he promoted Gillet & Llanna to the first team & kept us up! Do you think, honestly, that JP would of kept us up last year?? I don't!

 

Not an anti JP post, just don't get the thinking behind how what JP is achieving is better than what Pearson delivered!!

[NickG]

I still don't get this, Pearson had no resources, he tool over a team in free fall, devoid of all confidence, just been knocked out of the cup. In only 13 games with no pre-season he had to lift a battered squad, make loan signings with instant results, no bedding or setteiling in period for anyone. he promoted Gillet & Llanna to the first team & kept us up! Do you think, honestly, that JP would of kept us up last year?? I don't!

 

Not an anti JP post, just don't get the thinking behind how what JP is achieving is better than what Pearson delivered!!

 

how long did he play Lallana for? Think it was about 15 mins in total over all 13 games, not much more than Lallana had played before.

 

Not looked Gillet up but didn't remember him playing last year -prob I am wrong

 

Resources? - Saga, John, J Wright, Licka, Idiakez, Viafara. Hammil, Lucketti, R Wright, Safri, Idiakez and Vignal.

 

Like yours, not anti-NP post but think its not a fair comparison.

 

Would Jan have kept us up? maybe not.

 

Would NP be doing even worse this year? maybe

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Er?

 

The best managers needn't have been even half decent players.

 

The point I was making is that the best players (skillful or otherwise) are those that have the mental strength as well as (indeed instead of) some technical skills.

 

And that because we have a team of young and inexperienced professionals we can't expect that they won't make mistakes. No disrespect to them, but if you pay peanuts...

 

I'm not sure you remember the point you made.

 

You said:

 

"People say that it is the coach's job to prepare players mentally - but that is a con. Nothing can prepare a player for the mental reality of situations other than playing - what you can practice and train for is the technical, skills element and hope that this is applied correctly every time."

 

That is clearly absolute nonsense, so you ignore that and state something else instead.

 

I assume you think Mr Capello doesn't know what he's talking about when he says his main job is, surprise surprise, to prepare players mentally.

 

And did I miss your reply to Woodward instilling winning mentality with sports psychology?

 

So is "Jan the nice bloke" maybe not the best guy for the hard job of getting kids mentally tough enough for a man's league?

[krissyboy31]

The facts are: we have a team full of 17-23 year olds, some very talented, some adequate and others not so good and a few not good enough. The question should be: is the current manager getting the best out of the players available? I can not believe that he is and do not accept that they are all sh!t and therefore we have to accept 4th from bottom is best we can hope for.

 

Jan is a one trick pony. Any decent tactician knows exactly how to nullify our system. And when they do, Jan does not have a 'Plan B' or have the nous to try something different. He may be a decent coach? (no proof ever way) but is clueless in the top job and must be replaced.

[slickmick]

I would be happier with Jan if he would mix it up a bit. Play different formations against different teams, be unpredictable and not so easy to read.

We do struggle defensively against more direct and physical teams.

Why not try playing a sweeper system once in a while ?

 

Had we played the first half against Burnley and the game against Crystal Palace with the below formation I think we could have picked up a couple of points. Enough teams come to St Marys by putting every man behind the ball, so why don't we try it ?

 

 

....................Davies................

 

....................Perry................

James......Cork......Pearce............Mills

 

Thompson.....Wotton....Euell...Skacel

 

........../Patterson/BWP/Roberson.............

 

We may not create much with this team, but we would have a better chance of picking up an away point.

Then second half maybe stick Euell up front and bring on Schnederlin and Surman to the centre of midfield and let them run against some tired legs.

[Wes Tender]

Its funny /tragic to see that many of those calling for JP's head are the same posters who called for Burley's head, Lowe, Wilde, Crouch and McMenemy and also didnt want Pearson appointed. This is just another episode in the 'long on complaints, short on solutions' *****fest.

 

IMO for what its worth JP has done a pretty good job with largely last seasons reserves and youth players. Even if we just stay where we are (and I reckon we'll get midtable) it will be better than Pearson achieved with much more resource - and no that isnt a pop at Pearson who I thought did an alright job.

 

How about argueing the merits of Pearson against Poorvliet on a level playing field? How can you even begin to make comparisons when the situation Pearson faced was an inherited one? If he had started the season having had a pre-season to cast an eye over the players, then fair enough. But no way can he be blamed for just narrowly avoiding relegation when he started from the position left him by Dudd and Gormless. That would be like saying that the marathon runner almost finished last having started his race just a few places ahead of the stragglers at the back of the field.

 

If any comparison is to be made between the manager at the end of a season and the new one at the beginning of the next, it has to be done on the basis of an equal number of games.

 

And on that basis, Pearson's record is much superior. On that basis, if JP had the points that he achieved for us this season, we would have been relegated.

[Gordon Mockles]

Think hes doing an ok job in the circumstances....

 

F*ck me, I'd hate to see your version of a bad job, if you conider this "ok" - seeing as we're sitting just on top of the relegation zone with a goal difference of minus 14, 2nd worst and 2 goals away from being the worst in the league!! (Especially if you consider 2nd poorest GD compared only to the mighty, Doncaster!) Unbelievable! :confused:

 

Can I borrow your rose tinted specs please?

Edited 16 December, 2008 by Gordon Mockles
Typo

[slickmick]

How about argueing the merits of Pearson against Poorvliet on a level playing field? How can you even begin to make comparisons when the situation Pearson faced was an inherited one? If he had started the season having had a pre-season to cast an eye over the players, then fair enough. But no way can he be blamed for just narrowly avoiding relegation when he started from the position left him by Dudd and Gormless. That would be like saying that the marathon runner almost finished last having started his race just a few places ahead of the stragglers at the back of the field.

 

If any comparison is to be made between the manager at the end of a season and the new one at the beginning of the next, it has to be done on the basis of an equal number of games.

 

And on that basis, Pearson's record is much superior. On that basis, if JP had the points that he achieved for us this season, we would have been relegated.

 

 

The award for the most contradicting post is....

[Wes Tender]

The award for the most contradicting post is....

 

.........goes to Buctootim. He was the one making the comparisons.

 

Where's the contradiction? If JP's record achieved in the same number of games that Pearson had, was applied to the end of last season, then we would have been relegated. It is those who say that Pearson kept us up by the skin of our teeth that are disingenuous because he had inherited his position in the league as a result of what Burley, Dodd and Gorman had left him. If you like, conversely, if Pearson's results were substituted for JP's at the start of this season, we would still have been ahead of where we are now, 11th place if I recall what I had worked out on another thread.

 

I don't think that anybody would have been calling for JP's head under those circumstances.

[buctootim]

Oh dear Wes. If only you had half the brains you like to think you have .

[londonsaint1604]

I still don't get this, Pearson had no resources, he tool over a team in free fall, devoid of all confidence, just been knocked out of the cup. In only 13 games with no pre-season he had to lift a battered squad, make loan signings with instant results, no bedding or setteiling in period for anyone. he promoted Gillet & Llanna to the first team & kept us up! Do you think, honestly, that JP would of kept us up last year?? I don't!

 

Not an anti JP post, just don't get the thinking behind how what JP is achieving is better than what Pearson delivered!!

 

Pearson did a good job in as much as he did the job required from him, ie he kept us in the championship. Don't forget we still came very close to going down and we had a stronger squad than we do now. In my opinion, Jan's job is the same as Pearson's was - to keep us in the championship - but he has far less resources to achieve that (although I accept that Pearson came in at a difficult time and did not have the whole season to do it). Therefore if we are still in the championship next season you could argue that Jan has actually done better than Pearson did. It's unfair to make the judgement at this stage.

[buctootim]

Pearson did a good job in as much as he did the job required from him, ie he kept us in the championship. Don't forget we still came very close to going down and we had a stronger squad than we do now. In my opinion, Jan's job is the same as Pearson's was - to keep us in the championship - but he has far less resources to achieve that (although I accept that Pearson came in at a difficult time and did not have the whole season to do it). Therefore if we are still in the championship next season you could argue that Jan has actually done better than Pearson did. It's unfair to make the judgement at this stage.

 

Thats the way I see it.