Romania and Bulgaria immigration restrictions to lifted

[View From The Top]

They wouldn't though would they? More scaremongering from someone losing rational thought.

 

Jog on Tristan, my kids have a better grasp of it than you.

[Window Cleaner]

Have no idea. But Brits leaving for Spain are just like Romanians coming here. Like for like

 

 

Except that the Brits leaving for Spain probably have some form of subsistence and I'd not be sure that would be true of Roumanians coming to Britain. Anyway unless EEC law has changed in the recent past you can still be kicked out of any EEC state if you don't have the means to stay there and you become a burden upon that state.

[Barry Sanchez]

Jog on Tristan, my kids have a better grasp of it than you.

 

Really? They know their **** then, say hi to them for me.

[View From The Top]

Don't think anyone is suggesting kicking anyone out

 

More about stop anyone coming and sorting our own shed out for a long while

 

How? As Duckhunter said, we can't. That's a simple truth.

 

Personally I love the idea that my kids can study, live and work anywhere in the EU as easily as they could in the UK.

[buctootim]

There are c5.5 million Brits living abroad. Can you imagine the squealing on here if other countries took some posters line and kicked out 5.5 million Brits and they came back here looking for homes, jobs and support?

[Batman]

There are c5.5 million Brits living abroad. Can you imagine the squealing on here if other countries took some posters line and kicked out 5.5 million Brits and they came back here looking for homes, jobs and support?

 

Who is saying we should kick anyone out?

[Sour Mash]

You mean we go on holiday like we have done for years or retired to the sun like we have done for years.........................................

Yeah, you have to accept millions of Eastern European migrants or you can't go on holiday to Spain?

[Barry Sanchez]

There are c5.5 million Brits living abroad. Can you imagine the squealing on here if other countries took some posters line and kicked out 5.5 million Brits and they came back here looking for homes, jobs and support?

 

More scaremongering, who is talking about throwing people out?

[Barry Sanchez]

Yeah, you have to accept millions of Eastern European migrants or you can't go on holiday to Spain?

 

[shurlock]

Sending out all the old, senile farts who want to do a peter mayle in France or Spain in return for the best and brightest from France, Germany etc who are in their most productive years sounds like a fair deal to me.

[farawaysaint]

 

All he is saying is that free movement allows Brits to move wherever they like in Europe without restrictions and by extension as members of the EU Romanians get to do the same. Leaving the EU will make it harder to take your Spanish vacation than before with VISAs and authorisation and all manner of wonderful red tape.

[Batman]

All he is saying is that free movement allows Brits to move wherever they like in Europe without restrictions and by extension as members of the EU Romanians get to do the same. Leaving the EU will make it harder to take your Spanish vacation than before with VISAs and authorisation and all manner of wonderful red tape.

 

It would be like going to the states for holiday,,,No drama then

[Window Cleaner]

. Leaving the EU will make it harder to take your Spanish vacation than before with VISAs and authorisation and all manner of wonderful red tape.

 

 

not to mention the cholera and yellow fever injections once imposed upon us by the Spanish and believe me those fudgers hurt a fair bit.

[Sour Mash]

All he is saying is that free movement allows Brits to move wherever they like in Europe without restrictions and by extension as members of the EU Romanians get to do the same. Leaving the EU will make it harder to take your Spanish vacation than before with VISAs and authorisation and all manner of wonderful red tape.

Yes, we understand the point thanks. Exactly how hard do you think it was to go on holiday to Spain previously?

[Sour Mash]

Sending out all the old, senile farts who want to do a peter mayle in France or Spain in return for the best and brightest from France, Germany etc who are in their most productive years sounds like a fair deal to me.

Yep, except that's not what is currently happening.

[Frank's cousin]

Given Germany's track record when it comes to losing patience with migrant ethnic communities, I'm not sure that is something we should be wishing for.

 

Maybe said with tongue in your cheek, but it's total ******. Germany had an open door policy to migrant workers since the war, hence the huge Turkish immigration. It still worked because they enforced a stricter registration policy - eg, if found working illegally you were sent home, and employers prosecuted. But anyone could sign up to tax and other required schemes and then benefit from the usual services.

 

The issue is always controversial, and never helped by those who use it as a political stick, based on fear, prejudice and misinformation. However, economic climates do impact on what a countries services and infrastructure can cope with. Our problem, is that are plenty of unscrupulous employers willing to take on migrants at lower pay and not pay NI or tax.... They are the problem. If there greater enforcement, we would not see such wage competition, and thus 'no threat' to existing citizens employment or pay and conditions- meaning the country becomes a far less attractive option, unless the underlying economic conditions are strong and we need more workers.

 

The freedom of being able to live and work anywhere is a good thing. Unfortunately, until government gets hard with those willing to exploit this situation, there seem plenty of Mail readers and others who are happy to blame the policy and migrants rather than the employers who take criminal advantage.

[Barry Sanchez]

All he is saying is that free movement allows Brits to move wherever they like in Europe without restrictions and by extension as members of the EU Romanians get to do the same. Leaving the EU will make it harder to take your Spanish vacation than before with VISAs and authorisation and all manner of wonderful red tape.

 

Really, that has never deterred people from travelling before has it? They wont make it too difficult as we are giving the money not taking. Anyone remember post office passports, when did they go? Who got rid of them and was our passage difficult then?

 

Scaremongering.

[Dr. Kucho]

Restrictions shouldnt be lifted on people from Romania and Bulgaria. I have no problem with people from those countries, in fact I have met some and they were friendly people.

However we should wait until the NHS, youth unemployment and social housing is in a better state, until we think of letting more people in.

 

The best thing would be to leave the EU, having lived in the Netherlands and Spain I have witnessed the pathetic rules and regulations the EU try to force on us.

[buctootim]

Most people understand the whole EU debate is about a complicated interrelated mesh of economic, trade, sovereignty, freedom of movement, regulation and taxation issues for which there is a huge ledger of costs and benefits - and three thick ****ers think the only downside to leaving will be having to get a visa for Magaluf.

[Batman]

Most people understand the whole EU debate is about a complicated interrelated mesh of economic, trade, sovereignty, freedom of movement, regulation and taxation issues for which there is a huge ledger of costs and benefits - and three thick ****ers think the only downside to leaving will be having to get a visa for Magaluf.

 

Indeed. Faraway saint is telling us about these visa problems we would have

[Sour Mash]

Most people understand the whole EU debate is about a complicated interrelated mesh of economic, trade, sovereignty, freedom of movement, regulation and taxation issues for which there is a huge ledger of costs and benefits - and three thick ****ers think the only downside to leaving will be having to get a visa for Magaluf.

[aintforever]

Imagine if Spain and France kicked out all the Brits, you lot would go into melt down. Or if they said "No more Brits".

 

Thick fu**ers arguing for something that you barely comprehend.

 

I have no issues with France or Spain controlling their own immigration. I expect you will find they will still welcome retired wealthy Brits and skilled british workers.

[farawaysaint]

Indeed. Faraway saint is telling us about these visa problems we would have

 

I live to please Seriously though, someone uses a holiday analogy, I respond in kind and you think I'm being serious, just wonderful.

Edited 31 December, 2013 by farawaysaint

[Window Cleaner]

Yes, we understand the point thanks. Exactly how hard do you think it was to go on holiday to Spain previously?

 

 

At one time (and I'm talking late 60s early 70s here) it did require a bit of advance preparation if only for the jabs and the bail bond you needed in addition to the special green card car insurance (if you took your car). It was a fun place though until Mitchener wrote The Drifters and Torremolinos and places like it were flooded with yuppies.

[Barry Sanchez]

Most people understand the whole EU debate is about a complicated interrelated mesh of economic, trade, sovereignty, freedom of movement, regulation and taxation issues for which there is a huge ledger of costs and benefits - and three thick ****ers think the only downside to leaving will be having to get a visa for Magaluf.

 

 

Very true, I suggest anyone if they want their patience tested apply for an Indian holiday visa, the European Union without Britain would still be plain sailing.

[Barry Sanchez]

I live to please Seriously though, someone uses a holiday analogy, I respond in kind and you think I'm being serious, just wonderful.

 

You are.

[Barry Sanchez]

At one time (and I'm talking late 60s early 70s here) it did require a bit of advance preparation if only for the jabs and the bail bond you needed in addition to the special green card car insurance (if you took your car). It was a fun place though until Mitchener wrote The Drifters and Torremolinos and places like it were flooded with yuppies.

 

It has never been hard for 1000's of people every year to go to a place and spend money, **** me North Korea have holidays there, the scaremongering on here is the opposite of that ****e the Mail prints but its still ****e none the less.

[shurlock]

Yep, except that's not what is currently happening.

 

By and large, immigrants are more educated than their UK-born counterparts, and the gap has been rising over time as more recent immigrants are more educated than immigrants who came in the past.

 

That said, there are more immigrants in low-skilled jobs than might be gleaned or expected from their qualifications -and yes there is evidence, albeit it's more modest than the dinlows from UKIP suggest that less skilled UK workers have suffered greater downward pressure on wages and greater competition for jobs than others.

 

Also worth noting that the serious work on immigration has only really looked at the labour market impacts -jobs etc- and barely scratched the surface of other areas -prices, housing, health, crime and welfare- which contribute to the overall experience of immigration among the local population.

 

Finally, it is worth noting that by far the largest flow of new immigrants came from India and China (over 20%) in 2012. That's more than double the numbers from Poland and Romania combined.

[Barry Sanchez]

By and large, immigrants are more educated than their UK-born counterparts, and the gap has been rising over time as more recent immigrants are more educated than immigrants who came in the past.

 

That said, there are more immigrants in low-skilled jobs than might be gleaned or expected from their qualifications -and yes there is evidence, albeit it's more modest than the dinlows from UKIP suggest that less skilled UK workers have suffered greater downward pressure on wages and greater competition for jobs than others.

 

Also worth noting that the serious work on immigration has only really looked at the labour market impacts -jobs etc- and barely scratched the surface of other areas -prices, housing, health, crime and welfare- which contribute to the overall experience of immigration among the local population.

 

Finally, it is worth noting that by far the largest flow of new immigrants came from India and China (over 20%) in 2012. That's more than double the numbers from Poland and Romania combined.

 

We as a Nation have become fat and lazy whilst the poor ones educate, thats the crux of your post. Of course the liberal elite will always have the funds to provide their own to Eton and then Oxford, what about the rest of us? Oh yes we can go on holiday easy if we had the money or work in Poland. Cheers.

[Sour Mash]

By and large, immigrants are more educated than their UK-born counterparts, and the gap has been rising over time as more recent immigrants are more educated than immigrants who came in the past.

 

That said, there are more immigrants in low-skilled jobs than might be gleaned or expected from their qualifications -and yes there is evidence, albeit it's more modest than the dinlows from UKIP suggest that less skilled UK workers have suffered greater downward pressure on wages and greater competition for jobs than others.

 

Also worth noting that the serious work on immigration has only really looked at the labour market impacts -jobs etc- and barely scratched the surface of other areas -prices, housing, health, crime and welfare- which contribute to the overall experience of immigration among the local population.

 

Finally, it is worth noting that by far the largest flow of new immigrants came from India and China (over 20%) in 2012. That's more than double the numbers from Poland and Romania combined.

But that's not the point you were making in your post at the top of the page. And yes, just because there are still fairly high levels of immigration from India, why is that an argument for opening our borders to the whole of Romania and Bulgaria?

[farawaysaint]

By and large, immigrants are more educated than their UK-born counterparts, and the gap has been rising over time as more recent immigrants are more educated than immigrants who came in the past.

 

That said, there are more immigrants in low-skilled jobs than might be gleaned or expected from their qualifications -and yes there is evidence, albeit it's more modest than the dinlows from UKIP suggest that less skilled UK workers have suffered greater downward pressure on wages and greater competition for jobs than others.

 

Also worth noting that the serious work on immigration has only really looked at the labour market impacts -jobs etc- and barely scratched the surface of other areas -prices, housing, health, crime and welfare- which contribute to the overall experience of immigration among the local population.

 

Finally, it is worth noting that by far the largest flow of new immigrants came from India and China (over 20%) in 2012. That's more than double the numbers from Poland and Romania combined.

 

Legal, (and I stress legal) immigration levels have been shown in several studies to have no statistically significant correllation to crime levels, it is merely ,as Barry seems to be fond of saying "scaremongering".

 

http://www.izajom.com/content/2/1/19

[Sour Mash]

Legal, (and I stress legal) immigration levels have been shown in several studies to have no statistically significant correllation to crime levels, it is merely ,as Barry seems to be fond of saying "scaremongering".

 

http://www.izajom.com/content/2/1/19

I'm not going to read that whole report now, but does it not simply say there is no correlation in the figures, not that there isn't any actual links from certain communities? Regardless, I don't think nyone has really been discussing crime in this thread.

[farawaysaint]

...

Edited 31 December, 2013 by farawaysaint
forum

[Lord Duckhunter]

Personally I don't see why the UK couldn't sort its own arrangements with the Spanish, German, Dutch ect governments to allow free movement of people to those countries and visa versa. But I do accept that in the lead up to any EU referendum this issue can be used as a stick to beat the people advocating withdrawal. Yes, the could bar people working and living abroad , but in reality I'm sure something can be sorted. I was served in prezzo last week by a Russian chick, I didn't get into her immigration status, but last time I looked Russia wasn't an EU member. The free movement of people actually hinders the EU from bringing Turkey into the fold, which would really benefit the single market.

 

The main issue that the establishment in this country won't acknowledge is that the EU is on the road to ever closer union. It was in the treaty of Rome, it is accepted by all other members, it is a fact of EU life. The British establishment are still trying to con the people that its a economic community. It is not, they know it, but instead of persuading the people that its right, that its a good thing, lie and con us. They should have the strength of their beliefs, but they don't, and Tories like Dave and Gideon are following in the footsteps of grocer heath and clowns like ken Clarke and hestletine. They need to man up and present the pro arguments like some on here have. They are committed Europeans trying to pretend they're not. Shameful.

[farawaysaint]

I'm not going to read that whole report now, but does it not simply say there is no correlation in the figures, not that there isn't any actual links from certain communities? Regardless, I don't think nyone has really been discussing crime in this thread.

 

Apologies, I was replying to shurlock who was stating that crime influenced the experience of immigration on the population the actual conclusion of the paper is "we find no causal positive impact of immigration on crime".

Edited 31 December, 2013 by farawaysaint

[Window Cleaner]

Legal, (and I stress legal) immigration levels have been shown in several studies to have no statistically significant correllation to crime levels, it is merely ,as Barry seems to be fond of saying "scaremongering".

 

http://www.izajom.com/content/2/1/19

 

 

perhaps in the UK, so best of luck with that but here in France it's now official. The percentage of immigrants (mostly from SE Europe) involved in robberies has increased by 10% in about 4 years. Article in French, run it through a translator if you're interested. As long as you have legal and qualified immigration it won't make any difference, when you're flooded with Roumanians,Georgians (won't be your case) and Bulgarians hanging about on the corner of every road where there's a set of traffic lights begging and try to wash your windscreen with a filthy bit of rag then you may have to watch out. I'm hoping that some of ours start heading for the UK because we could do with a bit of a break.

http://delinquance.blog.lemonde.fr/2013/12/16/la-part-des-etrangers-mis-en-cause-pour-vols-a-fortement-augmente-depuis-2008/

Edited 31 December, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[Sour Mash]

Apologies, I was replying to shurlock who was stating that crime influenced the experience of immigration on the population the actual conclusion of the paper is "we find no causal positive impact of immigration on crime".

"The overall monthly arrest rate for immigrants is significantly higher at 3.8 arrests per 1000 population than that for the 2.8 arrests per 1000 population for UK nationals to 3.5 arrests per 1000 population for Non-UK nationals."

[Barry Sanchez]

Legal, (and I stress legal) immigration levels have been shown in several studies to have no statistically significant correllation to crime levels, it is merely ,as Barry seems to be fond of saying "scaremongering".

 

http://www.izajom.com/content/2/1/19

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/19/tory-mps-warn-immigration-bulgaria-rumania

 

I actually read this liberal paper, even they are saying it, a Romanian is 7 times as likely to be arrested in London as a British National, thats not racist or scaremongering its fact, only to use your post and of course Bulgarians could be very very different.

 

Read it go on.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Is it not a fact that every immigrant who gets a job in the UK, means that job is unavailable to a UK citizen. There if 50k come, then that's 50k more Brits unemployed. "They may not want those minimum wage jobs" I hear you cry. Well that's 50k Brits that should have their benefits cut, but are able to use hard working migrants to hide their laziness behind. Migrants also keep wages down. Mr dominio pizzas was on TV last month, bemoaning that he had thousands of jobs he couldn't fill. A UK minister told him to increase his wages . Why does he need to do that? He can fill those jobs with hardworking, well educated, dedicated eastern Europeans.

[Verbal]

I'd suggest that you stop filling this forum with your absolutist sh!te if you want people to stop calling you up on it. It might also benefit you to remember that you are posting on a site dedicated to Southampton FC, a football club in one of those provinicial towns you loathe so much. Do you reckon you're winning many hearts with your assertion that everyone outside your little bubble is a slow-witted dunderhead?

 

We clearly have different perspectives. Yours is to play a game in which you desperately seek popularity. Mine is to make some evidence-based observations about where, if anywhere, the majority of this inflow of people will go. For the record, I have a far deeper family connection to Saints than you, and Southampton the city is indeed crap. It may have the excuse that Hitler and the local council made it that way, but its crapness is inescapable. One of its saving graces, however, is its immigrant population.

 

I've no desire to give you yet another lesson in "Thread Starting 101", Verbal. You're really going to have to abandon your default position that I automatically endorse every reference I post. Does this look like a ringing endorsement? Am I saying I agree with it?

 

This is where it gets really depressing. Such is your narcissistic desire of the adoration from others that you start threads like this one, the one of Diuedonne, and the one on the Muslim shopworker (to name a few) in bad faith. That is, you start them not because you have a particular view, but to reassure yourself that with a “popular” thread, you are by extension popular. You do the same with your numbnuts use of faux-chav – “old bill” “defo”, ad nauseum.

 

 

 

Most people who experience Britain on a day to day basis, as opposed to the confines of a musty West London attic, will have recognised the strains that immigration have placed on society way before 1st January 2014. The time for moral panic has been and gone. I'd suggest that your singular existence has left you out of touch with the realities of modern Britain.

 

Actually I spend almost all of my time living and working in a northern city, over 200 miles way from London.

 

And so finally to return to my question – and for the third time of asking – what EVIDENCE do you have to back up your claim that

 

The main issue here – “here” meaning presumably the impending arrival of millions of Bulgarians and Romanians - is that we're pouring more people and cultures onto a country that doesn't have fit-for-purpose infrastructure as it is.

 

This is where your hoist by your own petard. Despite your specious claim that you weren’t endorsing the Mail in the OP, you go and post a statement like this, which is straight out of the Mail’s playbook for the morally panicked.

 

So again, what is your EVIDENCE for this happening?

 

Whatt EVIDENCE do you have to counter John Salt’s comments?

[farawaysaint]

"The overall monthly arrest rate for immigrants is significantly higher at 3.8 arrests per 1000 population than that for the 2.8 arrests per 1000 population for UK nationals to 3.5 arrests per 1000 population for Non-UK nationals."

 

I assume you read the bit where they then weighted it by age, and showed there was little difference? As the study confirms, both immigrant and UK national youngsters are far more likely to commit crime.

[Sour Mash]

I assume you read the bit where they then weighted it by age, and showed there was little difference? As the study confirms, both immigrant and UK national youngsters are far more likely to commit crime.

Yes I read that bit and chuckled. The fact is, based on the report you yourself have posted on here, immigrants are more likely to commit crime. The weighted by age bit is completely irrelevant.

[farawaysaint]

Yes I read that bit and chuckled. The fact is, based on the report you yourself have posted on here, immigrants are more likely to commit crime. The weighted by age bit is completely irrelevant.

 

If weighted averages are completely irrelevent then UK nationals are far more likely to commit crime based on the fact that more crimes were committed by UK Nationals than immigrants. You can't compare apples and oranges.

[Window Cleaner]

Imagine if Spain and France kicked out all the Brits, you lot would go into melt down. Or if they said "No more Brits".

 

Thick fu**ers arguing for something that you barely comprehend.

 

 

But I have a fairly near neighbour, an emeritus professor from Cambridge, he gets his pension from the UK and his royalties from the Oxford press or whatever and spends them at the local market and such like, he pays his taxes here so why would the French not want him here even if they could do that? It's UK money being poured into France and believe me we need it just now. Now if they could chuck a few Algerian gangsters out of Marseille I'm sure they'd be motivated for that.

Edited 31 December, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[Sour Mash]

If weighted averages are completely irrelevent then UK nationals are far more likely to commit crime based on the fact that more crimes were committed by UK Nationals than immigrants. You can't compare apples and oranges.

Please tell me you're kidding?

[farawaysaint]

Please tell me you're kidding?

 

So based on your logic you'd much rather have 20 UK nationals of 25 years old come back into the UK than 20 immigrants of 25 years when statistically they are just as likely to commit a crime? I fail to see how age isn't a relevant factor?

[Window Cleaner]

Have no idea. But Brits leaving for Spain are just like Romanians coming here. Like for like

 

 

as long as they are self sufficient I suppose, UK retirees don't look for work in Spain and you can only assume that they contribute to the economy, I just can't see how a Roumanian jobseeker can be compared with a person who needs no job and contributes income from another member state.

[Whitey Grandad]

So again, what is your EVIDENCE for this happening?

 

How much evidence do you need that our infrastructure is overloaded? Health, transport, housing, education, power, water, sewerage are all creaking at the seams.

[pap]

We clearly have different perspectives. Yours is to play a game in which you desperately seek popularity. Mine is to make some evidence-based observations about where, if anywhere, the majority of this inflow of people will go. For the record, I have a far deeper family connection to Saints than you, and Southampton the city is indeed crap. It may have the excuse that Hitler and the local council made it that way, but its crapness is inescapable. One of its saving graces, however, is its immigrant population.

 

It's laughable that given the inflammatory content I've posted over the years that you think this is a popularity contest. My purpose here, as stated numerous times before, is to offload all the crap that ms pap is tired of hearing and give a relatively honest account of myself in the process. For someone purportedly seeking an evidence based assessment of something, you've spent an awful lot of time playing the man, "Chopper" Verbal.

 

This is where it gets really depressing. Such is your narcissistic desire of the adoration from others that you start threads like this one, the one of Diuedonne, and the one on the Muslim shopworker (to name a few) in bad faith. That is, you start them not because you have a particular view, but to reassure yourself that with a “popular” thread, you are by extension popular. You do the same with your numbnuts use of faux-chav – “old bill” “defo”, ad nauseum.

 

More remote diagnosis. How sweet.

 

As for starting threads in bad faith, you're talking your normal cock, sir. I've consistently had an interest in immigration issues, mostly on account of my own mixed heritage. I've also got an interest in the effect of Islam on society, having witnessed its effects small-scale in a family basis. Are the threads provocative? Damn right. What the f**k do you want to talk about? The price of bread rolls or things people are actually interested in?

 

Still, I commend you on your "label bingo", Verbal. What's that we've got so far? Populist, fantasist, narcissist - a lot of -ists, and you laugh at me for allegedly affecting faux chav? I've said Old Bill for as long as I can remember and started saying defo when I moved to Scouseland.

 

I also have to ask; on what basis do you deny me my chav status? I spent 19 years on a rough-ish council estate and 18 years in inner-city Liverpool (our Kensington is a little different from yours). I moved to the suburbs under protest and threatened to leave broken white goods in the driveway. Going on past experience, I'd wager that this is another one of those situations where you've read a situation poorly. Are you applying some syllable-to-family-background coefficient that I've been previously unaware of? Which esteemed stately home in the Flower Estates do you think I hail from?

 

 

Actually I spend almost all of my time living and working in a northern city, over 200 miles way from London.

 

You spend most of your time on here responding to my posts. I'll be setting your agenda for next week soon. Any particular preference?

 

And so finally to return to my question – and for the third time of asking – what EVIDENCE do you have to back up your claim that

 

The main issue here – “here” meaning presumably the impending arrival of millions of Bulgarians and Romanians - is that we're pouring more people and cultures onto a country that doesn't have fit-for-purpose infrastructure as it is.

 

This is where your hoist by your own petard. Despite your specious claim that you weren’t endorsing the Mail in the OP, you go and post a statement like this, which is straight out of the Mail’s playbook for the morally panicked.

 

So again, what is your EVIDENCE for this happening?

 

Whatt EVIDENCE do you have to counter John Salt’s comments?

 

Caps. The last refuge of the damned.

 

If this is 2013's last throw of the dice, I think you've put your money on the wrong horse.

 

John Salt throws a few travel stats your way and that's enough? Fk me, mush. Six times salary is six times salary. Average house price in Romania is 45K Euro, 80K in Bucharest. It's exactly the same deal as it is for the Polish; they can come to the UK, spend a 5 or 6 years grafting on a mid-level job and set themselves up for life back home. It's a powerful incentive; we'll know just how powerful that is within a year.

 

The evidence will be apparent enough by then. I wonder if you'll be brave enough to come back to this thread when speculation is unnecessary and facts are on the ground. I've set a reminder to pull you up on this in a year. Let's see if your CAPITAL LETTERS help you then. x

 

Happy new year, and congratulations on a spectacular 2013 cliffhanger.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just because ****ing John salt says on the BBC that flights from Bulgaria and Romania are down on last year doesn't mean a ****ing thing. Its the 1st of Jan FFS, the doors don't shut tomorrow. Let's get old salty balls back in 2 years time with an update.