Romania and Bulgaria immigration restrictions to lifted

[aintforever]

Immigration reform is widely regarded as having a positive effect on economies, the only reason most countries restrict it is pandering to voters who fear the effects on them personally. I don't blame workers for fearing for their jobs but immigrants will often work cheaper and more productively which is beneficial to the country as a whole.

 

http://www.cato.org/publications/trade-policy-analysis/restriction-or-legalization-measuring-economic-benefits-immigration-reform

 

http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/fiscal-impact-immigration-uk

 

Of course immigration has it's benefits, it also has it's negative effects which is why it should be controlled. No one is saying stop all immigration.

 

My company employs a load of Polish, we were doing just as well years ago and never had any problem getting English people to do the jobs just now to compete with the company down the road we have to.

 

As long as it's the unskilled work no one cares but it's inevitable that soon the same downward wage pressure will be on skilled jobs. It depends what job you do but chances are that somewhere there is a better qualified Romanian willing to do it for a fraction of your salary.

[Barry Sanchez]

Of course immigration has it's benefits, it also has it's negative effects which is why it should be controlled. No one is saying stop all immigration.

 

My company employs a load of Polish, we were doing just as well years ago and never had any problem getting English people to do the jobs just now to compete with the company down the road we have to.

 

As long as it's the unskilled work no one cares but it's inevitable that soon the same downward wage pressure will be on skilled jobs. It depends what job you do but chances are that somewhere there is a better qualified Romanian willing to do it for a fraction of your salary.

 

Thats it exactly the poorest get shat upon but thats ok, as soon as it starts to affect the middle class then its an issue, what about everyone? What the exploitation of the immigrants? Pay and workers rights is where I see this and where the issues are, not from as most do a benefit fraud, take that away from them and then its not an issue, oh thats right we cant, and why is that?

A denial of a vote by the liberal elite.

[revolution saint]

Don't really think the lifting on restrictions will make much difference to be honest. Bulgarians and Romanians haven't been subject to the usual tier type checks for quite a while (at least a couple of years) so if they wanted to come over here and work then they could. Certainly where I work checks for non-EU migrant workers is pretty thorough but Romanians and Bulgarians as far as I know just need to provide documentation from their own govt - they don't need British approval.

 

Course you could see the pressure on wages forced lower but to be honest I'm not sure Romanians and Bulgarians will be responsible for that - they haven't so far have they? Personally feel we have a government more hellbent on keeping wages for people low than any migrant activity could ever do.

[Barry Sanchez]

Immigration reform is widely regarded as having a positive effect on economies, the only reason most countries restrict it is pandering to voters who fear the effects on them personally. I don't blame workers for fearing for their jobs but immigrants will often work cheaper and more productively which is beneficial to the country as a whole.

 

http://www.cato.org/publications/trade-policy-analysis/restriction-or-legalization-measuring-economic-benefits-immigration-reform

 

http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/fiscal-impact-immigration-uk

 

 

It has a positive effect upon large businesses that can keep wages lower through competition, they dont mention integration or lack of available housing leading to bubbles.

The agenda on anything being sold is to be positive, we cant not have anything to be seen as messing with the long term internationalist agenda.

[farawaysaint]

It has a positive effect upon large businesses that can keep wages lower through competition, they dont mention integration or lack of available housing leading to bubbles.

The agenda on anything being sold is to be positive, we cant not have anything to be seen as messing with the long term internationalist agenda.

 

That's not a bubble, that's a straight price increase backed by supply and demand. It's only a bubble when the price increase isn't backed up by anything substantial.

[Barry Sanchez]

That's not a bubble, that's a straight price increase backed by supply and demand. It's only a bubble when the price increase isn't backed up by anything substantial.

 

 

Whatever you may think its happening again. Where will social housing go in London when prices are so high? Who will pay for them to be at a subsidized rate so if they are built people can afford to live there?

[farawaysaint]

Whatever you may think its happening again. Where will social housing go in London when prices are so high? Who will pay for them to be at a subsidized rate so if they are built people can afford to live there?

 

I can't answer about properties available in London but it will be financed the same way everything is financed, through taxes.

[buctootim]

I can't answer about properties available in London but it will be financed the same way everything is financed, through taxes.

 

Totally wrong. Social housing is mostly financed through planning gain. A developer, for example, agrees to build 30 social housing flats in exchange for planning permission for 70 private units. The trick is making them deliver real social value - in the past the social and private have all been on the same site, but there is now more pressure from developers to build 70 multi million pound apartments in Kensington and 30 low cost crappo places in Croydon.

[farawaysaint]

Totally wrong. Social housing is mostly financed through planning gain. A developer, for example, agrees to build 30 social housing flats in exchange for planning permission for 70 private units. The trick is making them deliver real social value - in the past the social and private have all been on the same site, but there is now more pressure from developers to build 70 multi million pound apartments in Kensington and 30 low cost crappo places in Croydon.

 

I did not know that, interesting, surely there is a tendering process though so there shouldn't be huge gains for the private sector like you've stated there? Barring corruption of course.

[pap]

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2011/jun/30/uk-population-mapped

 

Plenty of room, by contrast Bangladesh has a density of 1,142 people PER SQUARE KILOMETER about four times England's.

 

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/bangladesh/population-density-people-per-sq-km-wb-data.html

 

We use a very small fraction of this country's landmass for the provision of residences. The issue isn't space as such (although it will be), but access to that space. The high cost of land and planning restrictions means that we don't use a lot of it.

 

The main issue here is that we're pouring more people and cultures onto a country that doesn't have fit-for-purpose infrastructure as it is.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The free movement of people is a fundamental component of the single market. It has been from day one and will be as long as we remain in the EU. No British politician has the balls to say so or to stick up for this basic EU right. They try to skirt round the issue and set up the straw benefits man to knock down. Basically , starting with Thatcher, UK governments have pressed for expansion of the EU as a counter weight against German & French influence, they also believed that the free eastern block countries would have a more Anglo Saxon approach to economics and the EU. They reasoned that more countries would mean more of a trading bloc than a "federal" EU. Nobody seemed to realise that more countries would equal more immigration or if they did, they hoped the British people wouldn't notice or wouldn't connect it to the EU. What Nigel Farage has done is change the terms of the debate from the micro EU debate of bill cash and others which was around "chapter x, sub section y" of such and such a treaty, to the macro " Bulgarian and Romania immigrants are allowed to come because we're in the EU". Of course Nigel is right, there are no restrictions because were in the eu, but none of the established parties want to acknowledge that and then defend it even though they know full well its non negotiable as a member.

 

My view is that it is for the British people via parliament to decide our immigration policy and that is one reason I think we should leave the EU. The depressing thing is the other side of the argument muddy the waters, they bang on about the benefits of immigration, they try to smear the people worried about it, they will not stand up and tell this basic truth, that if we want to remain in the EU, any Bulgarian, Romanian, Greek,Italian, Belgium, or other EU citizen can live and work in the UK and there is nothing the British government can do about it

[Verbal]

The main issue here is that we're pouring more people and cultures onto a country that doesn't have fit-for-purpose infrastructure as it is.

 

What's your evidence for this? Professor John Salt of the Migration Research Unit at UCL was talking on the BBC at lunchtime about how the only evidence he can find of numbers travelling from Bulgaria for example is that plane and ground transport bookings to the UK are DOWN on this time last year. The airlines are also reporting plenty of seat availability from Romania and Bulgaria, contrary to the Daily Mail.

 

Besides, any that do arrive will, if following earlier patterns, choose to live in London, and will opt out of the dubious pleasures of Liverpool, et al.

 

And actually the present population of London is STILL lower than it was in 1939, before the war emptied the city and before the Nazis reduced large swathes of it to rubble. If you travel the world a bit - go on, try it! - you'll find that London is by no means a crowded city on anywhere near the scale of, say, Tokyo, Delhi or even New York, and I can certainly travel around it much easier than a few northern British cities I could mention. On weekends it's practically deserted. London's infrastructure can be a challenge, but in the larger scheme of things, it's not bad.

 

You do seem awfully prone to moral panic.

[bridge too far]

And, Lord D, if the terms of freedom of movement were to change (unlikely, I know) then thousands of British people would not be able to work freely and live in any other member states.

 

And many of the elderly ex-pats, some of whom put quite a strain on the health services of their adopted countries, would have to return to the UK. And, without tax paying foreign workers, who is going to pay for this extra pressure on the NHS and Social Services?

Edited 31 December, 2013 by bridge too far

[farawaysaint]

The free movement of people is a fundamental component of the single market. It has been from day one and will be as long as we remain in the EU. No British politician has the balls to say so or to stick up for this basic EU right. They try to skirt round the issue and set up the straw benefits man to knock down. Basically , starting with Thatcher, UK governments have pressed for expansion of the EU as a counter weight against German & French influence, they also believed that the free eastern block countries would have a more Anglo Saxon approach to economics and the EU. They reasoned that more countries would mean more of a trading bloc than a "federal" EU. Nobody seemed to realise that more countries would equal more immigration or if they did, they hoped the British people wouldn't notice or wouldn't connect it to the EU. What Nigel Farage has done is change the terms of the debate from the micro EU debate of bill cash and others which was around "chapter x, sub section y" of such and such a treaty, to the macro " Bulgarian and Romania immigrants are allowed to come because we're in the EU". Of course Nigel is right, there are no restrictions because were in the eu, but none of the established parties want to acknowledge that and then defend it even though they know full well its non negotiable as a member.

 

My view is that it is for the British people via parliament to decide our immigration policy and that is one reason I think we should leave the EU. The depressing thing is the other side of the argument muddy the waters, they bang on about the benefits of immigration, they try to smear the people worried about it, they will not stand up and tell this basic truth, that if we want to remain in the EU, any Bulgarian, Romanian, Greek,Italian, Belgium, or other EU citizen can live and work in the UK and there is nothing the British government can do about it

 

Well written, what about trade though? Currently the UK exports about 50% of its goods to the EU which would decrease dramatically if the UK left the Union.

[buctootim]

I did not know that, interesting, surely there is a tendering process though so there shouldn't be huge gains for the private sector like you've stated there? Barring corruption of course.

 

I guess there would be a tendering process if the land were publicly owned - but usually the land is already owned by the developer seeking planning permission (or the developer has a development agreement with the private owner). Farm land near existing towns and industrial land or offices in prime central central city sites have a far greater value as building land with planning permission - hence the term planning gain and the haggling between council and developer.

[buctootim]

And, Lord D, if the terms of freedom of movement were to change (unlikely, I know) then thousands of British people would not be able to work freely and live in any other member states.

 

And many of the elderly ex-pats, some of whom put quite a strain on the health services of their adopted countries, would have to return to the UK. And, without tax paying foreign workers, who is going to pay for this extra pressure on the NHS and Social Services?

 

Exactly - its not all one way. We generally lose our economically inactive, healthcare needy, older residents and replace them with young working age economic migrants. Thats not to say I dont share some of Lord D's concerns - but overall its not all negative.

Edited 31 December, 2013 by buctootim

[View From The Top]

The free movement of people is a fundamental component of the single market. It has been from day one and will be as long as we remain in the EU. No British politician has the balls to say so or to stick up for this basic EU right. They try to skirt round the issue and set up the straw benefits man to knock down. Basically , starting with Thatcher, UK governments have pressed for expansion of the EU as a counter weight against German & French influence, they also believed that the free eastern block countries would have a more Anglo Saxon approach to economics and the EU. They reasoned that more countries would mean more of a trading bloc than a "federal" EU. Nobody seemed to realise that more countries would equal more immigration or if they did, they hoped the British people wouldn't notice or wouldn't connect it to the EU. What Nigel Farage has done is change the terms of the debate from the micro EU debate of bill cash and others which was around "chapter x, sub section y" of such and such a treaty, to the macro " Bulgarian and Romania immigrants are allowed to come because we're in the EU". Of course Nigel is right, there are no restrictions because were in the eu, but none of the established parties want to acknowledge that and then defend it even though they know full well its non negotiable as a member.

 

My view is that it is for the British people via parliament to decide our immigration policy and that is one reason I think we should leave the EU. The depressing thing is the other side of the argument muddy the waters, they bang on about the benefits of immigration, they try to smear the people worried about it, they will not stand up and tell this basic truth, that if we want to remain in the EU, any Bulgarian, Romanian, Greek,Italian, Belgium, or other EU citizen can live and work in the UK and there is nothing the British government can do about it

 

Personally that's what I love about the EU.

 

An estimated 1m Brits live in Spain, 100s of thousands in France etc. I'm all for it.

[pap]

What's your evidence for this? Professor John Salt of the Migration Research Unit at UCL was talking on the BBC at lunchtime about how the only evidence he can find of numbers travelling from Bulgaria for example is that plane and ground transport bookings to the UK are DOWN on this time last year. The airlines are also reporting plenty of seat availability from Romania and Bulgaria, contrary to the Daily Mail.

 

Besides, any that do arrive will, if following earlier patterns, choose to live in London, and will opt out of the dubious pleasures of Liverpool, et al.

 

And actually the present population of London is STILL lower than it was in 1939, before the war emptied the city and before the Nazis reduced large swathes of it to rubble. If you travel the world a bit - go on, try it! - you'll find that London is by no means a crowded city on anywhere near the scale of, say, Tokyo, Delhi or even New York, and I can certainly travel around it much easier than a few northern British cities I could mention. On weekends it's practically deserted. London's infrastructure can be a challenge, but in the larger scheme of things, it's not bad.

 

You do seem awfully prone to moral panic.

 

I suppose that reports of a large Polish community in Southampton are completely off the mark and that the Eastern Europeans I work with in NI are just local lads putting it on. The Somalian lads up here are clearly out-dated white nippers who haven't got the minstrel memo, blacking up in ignorance.

 

Immigration doesn't exist outside of London, after all.

 

Thanks for the scoop, Verbal.

 

Anyone outside London; call people whatever you want. It's all Brits trying to emulate the success of Les Dennis and Al Jolson, apparently.

[Sour Mash]

What's your evidence for this? Professor John Salt of the Migration Research Unit at UCL was talking on the BBC at lunchtime about how the only evidence he can find of numbers travelling from Bulgaria for example is that plane and ground transport bookings to the UK are DOWN on this time last year. The airlines are also reporting plenty of seat availability from Romania and Bulgaria, contrary to the Daily Mail.

 

Besides, any that do arrive will, if following earlier patterns, choose to live in London, and will opt out of the dubious pleasures of Liverpool, et al.

 

And actually the present population of London is STILL lower than it was in 1939, before the war emptied the city and before the Nazis reduced large swathes of it to rubble. If you travel the world a bit - go on, try it! - you'll find that London is by no means a crowded city on anywhere near the scale of, say, Tokyo, Delhi or even New York, and I can certainly travel around it much easier than a few northern British cities I could mention. On weekends it's practically deserted. London's infrastructure can be a challenge, but in the larger scheme of things, it's not bad.

 

You do seem awfully prone to moral panic.

We were told immigration from the former Eastern Bloc would be in the thousands when they were brought into the EU back in 2004, how did that work out? What about the numerous Eastern Europeans that moved to East Anglia, many of which ended up living on the streets? Or the numerous schools across the country that are trying to cope with teaching young children with a myriad of different first languages? No-way is taking it literally that every plane from Bulgaria and Romania is packed today, but over the next 6 months, who knows? Cheap coach travel is the preferred mode of transport for many anyway.

 

Also, London deserted at the weekend? You've got to be kidding, unless you're simply referring to the square mile? Schools, GPs and Public transport are all at breaking point around many parts of London as well. Why compare London to Delhi and not, for example Sydney?

[Verbal]

I suppose that reports of a large Polish community in Southampton are completely off the mark and that the Eastern Europeans I work with in NI are just local lads putting it on. The Somalian lads up here are clearly out-dated white nippers who haven't got the minstrel memo, blacking up in ignorance.

 

Immigration doesn't exist outside of London, after all.

 

Thanks for the scoop, Verbal.

 

Anyone outside London; call people whatever you want. It's all Brits trying to emulate the success of Les Dennis and Al Jolson, apparently.

 

Your ignorance is not a sufficient answer, as much as (per usual) you seem to think it is. Of course there are immigrant communities outside of London - you'd have to be beyond stupid to think I was suggesting otherwise.

 

But what I said stands.

 

So again, what is the evidence to back up your morally-panicked position? Please come up with counter-evidence to John Salt's comment that the invasion simply isn't happening. And please, for once, concentrate! That is, try and grasp the point of an argument rather than venting uselessly and with stupifying irrelevance about the presence of immigrant communities outside London.

[Barry Sanchez]

Personally that's what I love about the EU.

 

An estimated 1m Brits live in Spain, 100s of thousands in France etc. I'm all for it.

 

 

Millions of Brits move and take their money with them or go and work with accommodation taken care of by private rent or living in company owned houses, very different altogether although you get the liberal agenda throwing that one in.

[SuperMikey]

Millions of Brits move and take their money with them or go and work with accommodation taken care of by private rent or living in company owned houses, very different altogether although you get the liberal agenda throwing that one in.

 

I think you should move to Estonia Baz. Would suit you. No liberal elite there.

[Sour Mash]

Well written, what about trade though? Currently the UK exports about 50% of its goods to the EU which would decrease dramatically if the UK left the Union.

Why would it?

[Barry Sanchez]

What's your evidence for this? Professor John Salt of the Migration Research Unit at UCL was talking on the BBC at lunchtime about how the only evidence he can find of numbers travelling from Bulgaria for example is that plane and ground transport bookings to the UK are DOWN on this time last year. The airlines are also reporting plenty of seat availability from Romania and Bulgaria, contrary to the Daily Mail.

 

Besides, any that do arrive will, if following earlier patterns, choose to live in London, and will opt out of the dubious pleasures of Liverpool, et al.

 

And actually the present population of London is STILL lower than it was in 1939, before the war emptied the city and before the Nazis reduced large swathes of it to rubble. If you travel the world a bit - go on, try it! - you'll find that London is by no means a crowded city on anywhere near the scale of, say, Tokyo, Delhi or even New York, and I can certainly travel around it much easier than a few northern British cities I could mention. On weekends it's practically deserted. London's infrastructure can be a challenge, but in the larger scheme of things, it's not bad.

 

You do seem awfully prone to moral panic.

 

 

London has spread like most major Cities, Liverpool's has hlaved since the war but the outlying areas have gone up, nothing new there, your fascination with Liverpool is as funny as it is stupid. If you refer to Liverpool as difficult to navigate then could you add more to that point? Or are you insinuating as if you know how to navigate the City, London faces approx x5 more people into the City than in did 50 years ago.

I could bore you on this and I also have travelled around a bit, well done me clap clap.

 

You are the mirror image of Pap.

[Barry Sanchez]

I think you should move to Estonia Baz. Would suit you. No liberal elite there.

 

I have a very good Estonian friend actually from outside Talin, good lad and named after one of the Beatles, his mum was a huge fan!

[Barry Sanchez]

Well written, what about trade though? Currently the UK exports about 50% of its goods to the EU which would decrease dramatically if the UK left the Union.

 

There is no proof in that, its the reverse of the UKIP argument and yet that does not shown up for scaremongering.

[buctootim]

Why would it?

 

Erm because almost every country in the world has trade barriers. The EU is big enough to negotiate good terms, the UK wont be able to match those.

 

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21567914-how-britain-could-fall-out-european-union-and-what-it-would-mean-making-break

http://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/attachments/pdf/2012/buchan_swiss_norway_11oct12-6427.pdf

Edited 31 December, 2013 by buctootim

[pap]

Your ignorance is not a sufficient answer, as much as (per usual) you seem to think it is. Of course there are immigrant communities outside of London - you'd have to be beyond stupid to think I was suggesting otherwise.

 

Besides, any that do arrive will, if following earlier patterns, choose to live in London, and will opt out of the dubious pleasures of Liverpool, et al.

 

I'd suggest that you stop filling this forum with your absolutist sh!te if you want people to stop calling you up on it. It might also benefit you to remember that you are posting on a site dedicated to Southampton FC, a football club in one of those provinicial towns you loathe so much. Do you reckon you're winning many hearts with your assertion that everyone outside your little bubble is a slow-witted dunderhead?

 

But what I said stands.

 

So again, what is the evidence to back up your morally-panicked position? Please come up with counter-evidence to John Salt's comment that the invasion simply isn't happening. And please, for once, concentrate! That is, try and grasp the point of an argument rather than venting uselessly and with stupifying irrelevance about the presence of immigrant communities outside London.

 

I've no desire to give you yet another lesson in "Thread Starting 101", Verbal. You're really going to have to abandon your default position that I automatically endorse every reference I post. Does this look like a ringing endorsement? Am I saying I agree with it?

 

The Daily Mail, predictably, is running a story today indicating that all flights and buses from Romania and Bulgaria are booked up until the 9th Jan at least.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2531440/Sold-Flights-buses-Romanians-Bulgarians-head-UK.html

 

Most people who experience Britain on a day to day basis, as opposed to the confines of a musty West London attic, will have recognised the strains that immigration have placed on society way before 1st January 2014. The time for moral panic has been and gone. I'd suggest that your singular existence has left you out of touch with the realities of modern Britain.

[Barry Sanchez]

Erm because almost every country in the world has trade barriers. The EU is big enough to negotiate good terms, the UK wont be able to match those.

 

 

Others have, Norway and Switzerland for starters.

[Sour Mash]

And, Lord D, if the terms of freedom of movement were to change (unlikely, I know) then thousands of British people would not be able to work freely and live in any other member states.

 

And many of the elderly ex-pats, some of whom put quite a strain on the health services of their adopted countries, would have to return to the UK. And, without tax paying foreign workers, who is going to pay for this extra pressure on the NHS and Social Services?

Have you got stats/evidence to support this?

[Sour Mash]

Erm because almost every country in the world has trade barriers. The EU is big enough to negotiate good terms, the UK wont be able to match those.

 

http://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/attachments/pdf/2012/buchan_swiss_norway_11oct12-6427.pdf

Erm, as we import more from the EU than we export, I'm pretty sure they will not want to lose us as a market - we'd still be in a pretty strong position to negotiate.

[bridge too far]

Have you got stats/evidence to support this?

 

 

How can I have stats or evidence if the situation I've talked about hasn't yet happened? However, logic is a useful tool.

 

I have read, though, that Spain is demanding some sort of payment for medical treatment delivered to Brits (and other non Spanish nationals, no doubt) but I also think a lot depends on their residency status and that's quite complicated.

[buctootim]

Erm, as we import more from the EU than we export, I'm pretty sure they will not want to lose us as a market - we'd still be in a pretty strong position to negotiate.

 

Believe it or not most of the world isnt in the EU - you know, the other 160 countries we trade with and would have to negotiate with. The 65m population UK would not be able to negotiate as good terms as the EU with a market of 440 million.

[View From The Top]

Have you got stats/evidence to support this?

 

I've got some somewhere. From memory, Brits are old, cost the Spanish over €3billion a year in healthcare, don't integrate, live in "ghettos" and don't learn the language.

[buctootim]

Others have, Norway and Switzerland for starters.

 

and if you read the links you'd understand why it isnt advantageous for them.

[Window Cleaner]

Others have, Norway and Switzerland for starters.

 

I'm not sure that either of them manufacture things that anyone wants. Anyway isn't there some sort of Free Trade area for those who aren't in the EEC but are linked to it? So EEC and EFTA are one and the same thing for trade reasons although there may be EFTA quotas, I'm not an expert on that. I can tell you though that the Roms (mostly Bulgarians in our case I think) are already a pain in the butt in France so I'm not sure how much worse it can get. Train breaks down in the middle of nowhere..why? either some Roms have succeeded in nicking the copper cables or electrocuted themselves in the attempt.

Edited 31 December, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[Horley CTFC Saint]

**** me the Normans will be invading next! As a dyed in the wool Saxon I'm worried

[Barry Sanchez]

I'm not sure that either of them manufacture things that anyone wants. Anyway isn't there some sort of Free Trade area for those who aren't in the EEC but are linked to it? So EEC and EFTA are one and the same thing for trade reasons although there may be EFTA quotas, I'm not an expert on that.

 

So we could not apply for what they have? And surely if we have more we would be in stronger position?

[Barry Sanchez]

I've got some somewhere. From memory, Brits are old, cost the Spanish over €3billion a year in healthcare, don't integrate, live in "ghettos" and don't learn the language.

 

That we contribute to as well through the European Union, what about what we put into the Spanish economy?

[Batman]

I've got some somewhere. From memory, Brits are old, cost the Spanish over €3billion a year in healthcare, don't integrate, live in "ghettos" and don't learn the language.

 

If Spain want to limit immigration. Good luck to them

 

I only give a crap about this country. We should stop anymore coming right now. Like Spain, if people are already here, fair enough

[View From The Top]

If Spain want to limit immigration. Good luck to them

 

I only give a crap about this country. We should stop anymore coming right now. Like Spain, if people are already here, fair enough

 

Freedom of movement in the EU is brilliant and member countries can't limit it.. We all f**K off to sunnier climes (we intend to) and others come here to work.

 

Over 2 million Brits live and work in the EU countries. We become immigrants on a vast scale but whinge, myself included, when others want to come here.

[Barry Sanchez]

Freedom of movement in the EU is brilliant. We all ***** off to sunnier climes (we intend to) and others come here to work.

 

Over 2 million Brits live and work in the EU countries. We become immigrants on a vast scale but whinge, myself included, when others want to come here.

 

You mean we go on holiday like we have done for years or retired to the sun like we have done for years.........................................

[View From The Top]

Imagine if Spain and France kicked out all the Brits, you lot would go into melt down. Or if they said "No more Brits".

 

Thick fu**ers arguing for something that you barely comprehend.

[Window Cleaner]

If Spain want to limit immigration. Good luck to them

 

I only give a crap about this country. We should stop anymore coming right now. Like Spain, if people are already here, fair enough

 

 

Why would Spain want to limit UK immigration, UK pensions being spent there must bolster their economy somewhat. As the old are residents but not working citizens I don't know how that would pan out for healthcare. In France you don't get full rights unless you've contributed via your working career although there are schemes for those outside the normal system. You'd be hard pushed to find a dentist to take you on one of those schemes though and most people need some sort of "complimentary mutuelle" in any case.

[Sour Mash]

If Spain want to limit immigration. Good luck to them

 

I only give a crap about this country. We should stop anymore coming right now. Like Spain, if people are already here, fair enough

Exactly that. I'd have no problem is Spain decided they wanted to regain control over their own borders. It was never exactly hard to travel to Spain or live there before the opening up of borders was it?

[Batman]

Why would Spain want to limit UK immigration, UK pensions being spent there must bolster their economy somewhat. As the old are residents but not working citizens I don't know how that would pan out for healthcare. In France you don't get full rights unless you've contributed via your working career although there are schemes for those outside the normal system. You'd be hard pushed to find a dentist to take you on one of those schemes though and most people need some sort of "complimentary mutuelle" in any case.

 

Have no idea. But Brits leaving for Spain are just like Romanians coming here. Like for like

[Barry Sanchez]

Imagine if Spain and France kicked out all the Brits, you lot would go into melt down. Or if they said "No more Brits".

 

Thick fu**ers arguing for something that you barely comprehend.

 

They wouldn't though would they? More scaremongering from someone losing rational thought.

[View From The Top]

Exactly that. I'd have no problem is Spain decided they wanted to regain control over their own borders. It was never exactly hard to travel to Spain or live there before the opening up of borders was it?

 

That's because we are in the EU and have been for 40 years. The movement of people, goods and services has always been a cornerstone.

[Batman]

Imagine if Spain and France kicked out all the Brits, you lot would go into melt down. Or if they said "No more Brits".

 

Thick fu**ers arguing for something that you barely comprehend.

 

Don't think anyone is suggesting kicking anyone out

 

More about stop anyone coming and sorting our own shed out for a long while

[Barry Sanchez]

Have no idea. But Brits leaving for Spain are just like Romanians coming here. Like for like

 

No, no they are not, to you maybe but they are not. For a start there are many different types of emigrants.