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Sensitivity about MP criticism

110_Persaint

By 110_Persaint,
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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted (edited)
Osvaldo, Shaw, Clyne, Wanyama, Boruc, etc all out. That's almost 50% of our first team injured.

 

Any team with that amount of their 1st team injured would struggle to win. Add into that having to play Fox, Gazza and a un-experienced right back (who will be a class player one day) and again any team would struggle.

 

It isn't so much of an agenda it is being realistic enough to know that if you have half your team out you are not going to be as good as you are with your full first team.

 

But keep on trolling Turks....

 

You're right a team without 6 first team players isn't going to be as strong. However why is it trolling to point out that after spending £70m when we do get a few injuries we are still relying on championship players who were already here and proven time and time again they aren't up to it? A large chunk of this money has been spent on players who are on loan, not doing their jobs or not even better than those that they were signed to replace.

 

It's a reasonable question because a few weeks back when I was criticised for Saying people were deluded if they think this squad is good enough for the top 6 I was given pelters for it. People were saying were amazing and the top 6 was inevitable

Edited by Turkish
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notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted
I'm sure I will. My sons have already been talking of a champions/Europa league awayday and it seems great. Just hope the 'down' on this particular roller coaster is not too bumpy or abrupt in its ending.

 

We shouldn't fear the "down", every club goes through a down at some point. We are much better off following our last down and I think we are stronger for it.

 

Merry Christmas to your family, not sure Santa Mo will deliver Europa League football this season but maybe the next.

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notnowcato

notnowcato

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Posted
You're right a team without 6 first team players isn't going to be as strong. However why is it trolling to point out that after spending £70m when we do get a few injuries we are still relying on championship players who were already here and proven time and time again they aren't up to it? A large chunk of this money has been spent on players who are on loan, not doing their jobs or not even better than those that they were signed to replace.

 

Is there a club in the Premiership that you couldn't ask a similar question to with regards to transfers not always working out?

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The Kraken

The Kraken

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Posted
Is there a club in the Premiership that you couldn't ask a similar question to with regards to transfers not always working out?

It's not about whether clubs make zero mistakes in the transfer market; its the proportion of spend on players that do and don't work out. Spurs are getting pelters this season from all corner for spending all the Bale cash (and then some) on players who are under-perfoming compared to expectations. Everton on the other hand have spent relatively little, made some excellent loan signings, and Roberto Martinez is being lauded for it.

 

We've made some amazing signings in the past few seasons. There's also no getting away from the fact that we've also spent proportionally an awful lot of money on players who haven't or aren't quite working out. It's perfectly valid and not trolling in the slightest to point that out.

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dronskisaint

dronskisaint

Posted
Posted
Talk of posters having agendas always makes me laugh. If anyone ever dares post an opinion that goes against the mainstream that person is always accused of having an agenda. Ever since I dared to question Lowe, Manji for one, has accused me of having an agenda (he thinks I want to take over the club). There are people in life who are only truly happy when they feel the people that rule over them are in complete control. When someone comes along and rocks the boat then panic sets in and accusations fly.

 

I only want what's best for my football team and if I think the people running my club are making mistakes then I will holler. I am very uncomfortable with the way football clubs are increasingly being owned by despots, lunatics, charlatans, egotists etc etc and while I don't think the fans owning their clubs is a sure fire way to success (look at the basket case just down the road), I do wish football club owners took into consideration the views of the supporters - be it over kit, safe standing, pies in the concourse whatever. Just look at the situation at Cardiff and Hull. As for Saints it has been a great ride and I am very proud we are playing good football with young kids and more coming through and are being recognised nationally for doing it, but I still can't help feeling it will one day end in tears unless a certain person develops a tad more humility and more respect for what preceded him. Happy Xmas - the sermon has endeth. And a special Happy Xmas to Manji who will choke on his cornflakes when he reads this. :)

 

FF - Generally speaking I have a lot of time for your perspectives, certainly there is nobody better informed on club history and I respect the background knowledge behind your views...I agree with a lot of your second paragraph certainly.

 

Where I think we differ is that you credit the posters who may be accused of having agendas (maybe both positive and negative?) with having a similar knowledge and integrity. I look at a number of the regularly critical posters and don't see a level of support commensurate with watching matches, having an understanding of the game to be called a supporter (I certainly do not watch as many matches as you or many Southampton dwellers due to my location but probably 20-30 a year) - the critical part of that statement is regarding the word 'supporter'. I'm not suggesting that you have to be a 'uber-fan' or qualify by having seen x matches per year, have every programme for decades etc but to actually accept the positives when they are there and often outweigh the negatives. I can name names but I think most on here know the ones whose agendas (in my opinion) disqualify them from my definition, my perspective of a 'supporter'. Surely a basic premise would actually be support occasionally..no, not occasionally ..it should be the default position! I, and many I read on here and speak to at matches, find their constant sniping at players, Cortese, budgets, Les Reed etc incredibly tiresome and not anything to do with the word 'supporter'. Some, again they are self-identifying, take this to the degree that I can't believe that they are Saints supporters, can even believe that they are skate WUMs because they post just as I would if I was an opposing supporter stirring the sh*t on another club's forum - but perhaps I credit too much intelligence to these posters - I can't call them supporters.

 

Whether they should be banned is not my decision - I've never requested a ban for anyone because at the end of the day it's a football forum and people can (and apparently do) adopt as many personas as they have computer log-ins with the safety of anonymity but I think you bestow a credibility that's not earnt or deserved with your statement - one that allows the WUMs to laugh at what they're getting away with whilst purporting to 'support' my team - that is what I find difficult to stomach.

 

I'll no doubt be labelled 'Cult of Cortese', happy clapper etc but if genuine support engenders that then so be it, I'm unlikely to be offended by such descriptions. I've never left a game early, I've never booed a Saints player, I have protested against Rupert Lowe (more in the 2nd coming), I have shouted for Ian Branfoot to be removed -after the game - I was uncomfortable with both Pardew and Adkins sackings and certainly I wish Cortese and Matt could love each other to the benefit of my/our team- if I'm unhappy I say what I think but the drip of constant negativity and puerile sniping on here does not come from Saints supporters...in my forum-expressed opinion. Your right to say the things you do has been earnt - please don't ally yourself with those whose patently hasn't. Here endeth my lesson, Merry Xmas and an optimistic New Year!!

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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

Posted
Posted
Osvaldo, Shaw, Clyne, Wanyama, Boruc, etc all out. That's almost 50% of our first team injured.

 

Any team with that amount of their 1st team injured would struggle to win.

 

Sadly, many mangers have fallen by that particular sword. The fact is PL football is now a squad game involving tactical changes based on the individual abilities of players making up the squad and on match days the group on the field plus those selected for the bench. The bench is not there as a set of spares or replacement parts as in years gone by, each player selected for a bench place now is as important as the starting Xi and is expected to be able to come on at some stage of a match and help re-shape the patterns of play if called upon to do so. The manager must make sure he has the right group together on match day to meet the expected needs. is some people are absent through injury then the manager must re-shape his tactics to best use the talents at his disposal. That's how managerial success will be measured these days.

 

That's why the plea of injury-hit squads has no resonance upstairs where football is a win-win activity only. I genuinely like what Pochettino is trying to achieve with his squad but I also genuinely fear for his future if they get nothing from these next three games... and whether we will speak its name or not, three defeats is not an unlikely outcome.

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GAS

GAS

Posted
Posted
Well said. The incandescent rage that people fly into if anyone dares to question anything that is going on at the club or have a view different to the majority is hilarious. Say something people don't want to read and you're a troll, saying something that isn't popular not the party line you have an agenda.
Leave it out. Arguments work both ways as you well know. This sounds very arrogant to me.
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Dr Who?

Dr Who?

Posted
Posted

I really cannot see what the issue is. We are heading in the right direction (not talking current form) in general. We have injuries a plenty to key players, which any team between 4- to bottom would suffer. Everton have the same kind of squad, if they get a few key injuries they will notice it.

 

It is always the same people, just waiting for a slight slip in form and they come moaning on here about the club. I am sick of you guys. Why can you not just see that we have come a long way on and off the field. A few injuries return and so will be back to winning ways.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

Love you all (well nearly all, some of you are completely nuts).

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Glasgow_Saint

Glasgow_Saint

Posted
Posted
Everton have the same kind of squad, if they get a few key injuries they will notice it.

 

Funny you should mention Everton as i was looking at them earlier.

 

They do have injuries (more than us) much like every other team in the premiership, but they cope?!

 

S Distin

S Pienaar

N Jelavic

G Deulofeu

L Baines

A Kone

D Gibson

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
I really cannot see what the issue is. We are heading in the right direction (not talking current form) in general. We have injuries a plenty to key players, which any team between 4- to bottom would suffer. Everton have the same kind of squad, if they get a few key injuries they will notice it.

 

It is always the same people, just waiting for a slight slip in form and they come moaning on here about the club. I am sick of you guys. Why can you not just see that we have come a long way on and off the field. A few injuries return and so will be back to winning ways.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

Love you all (well nearly all, some of you are completely nuts).

 

People thought we were heading in the right direction in 2003 too. I don't see why people have a problem with raising concerns about things. We of all clubs should know not to be complacent and I'm sure Cortese doesn't mind, he is on record as saying he demands high standard, so why should we as fans not expect them?

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Olallana

Olallana

Posted
Posted (edited)
Funny you should mention Everton as i was looking at them earlier.

 

They do have injuries (more than us) much like every other team in the premiership, but they cope?!

 

S Distin

S Pienaar

N Jelavic

G Deulofeu

L Baines

A Kone

D Gibson

 

Once again spouting out lies on the forum, why??

 

Distin and Pienaar both started last game.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25387089

 

And the game before that.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25275762

 

And the game before that.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25173164

 

And the game before that.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25115886

 

And the game before that.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25063878

 

Ok, I´ll stop there.

 

//Lie detector.

Edited by Olallana
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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Once again spouting out lies on the forum, why??

 

Distin and Pienaar both started last game.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25387089

 

And the game before that.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25275762

 

And the game before that.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25173164

 

And the game before that.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25115886

 

And the game before that.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25063878

 

Ok, I´ll stop there.

 

//Lie detector.

 

:lol:

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Olallana

Olallana

Posted
Posted
Fair enough.... They have 5 injuries not 7 :facepalm: jez

 

And how many of those would be regular starters if they had no injuries?

 

1, Baines.

 

Rest of them are pretty much squad players, Gibson would start last year but not this year with Barry/McCarthy. Jelavic on the way out, Deulofeu has started one or two games so far, Kone would never be picked before Lukaku.

All good players but not from their first choice XI.

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Glasgow_Saint

Glasgow_Saint

Posted
Posted
And how many of those would be regular starters if they had no injuries?

 

1, Baines.

 

Rest of them are pretty much squad players, Gibson would start last year but not this year with Barry/McCarthy. Jelavic on the way out, Deulofeu has started one or two games so far, Kone would never be picked before Lukaku.

All good players but not from their first choice XI.

 

Agree to disagree m8

 

Merry christmas

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted
What is the deal with this?

 

Serious question. Folks are more than happy to go off about Fox, Jos and Gazzaniga being not fit to wear the shirt, not premier league level, not good enough, blah blah blah. But when it comes to our manager, he's untouchable???

 

This man is the primary reason for our slump, why can't we all admit to this and question his managerial ability?

 

 

 

I thought our performances in the first 10 games since August might have shown you that......do you think it makes ANY difference that we've 3 or 4 of that (starting) team unavailable at present?.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted

As others have stated, it's less about criticism and more about the very clear fact that there are those for whom getting a reaction to a 'critique' is the whole purpose of the thread ...or post. There is a post on this thread where the poster describes invest how 'hilarious' he finds it.... A lot truth said in jest.

 

Nowt wrong with debating a controversial topic, if you can trust the opinion being presented is actually held.... Sadly for many on here that is not the case. It's so frequent and easy to to spot, there is more chance of finding truly held opinions in the MS...

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CHAPEL END CHARLIE

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

Posted
Posted

Well, I've reread the OP carefully and for the life of me I can't see anything in it that constitutes reasonable grounds for banning anyone from this site in my opinion. Is he really a WUM, or is he merely expressing a genuinely held opinion?

 

I don't know, but it seems to me sometimes you just have to give people the benefit of the doubt ... or you'll end up looking like a bunch of Stalin wannabes.

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