Building through the Academy vs Signings

[Tom28]

I'm probably in the minority, from what I can tell, in that I really don't want us to splash out buy lots of players. I would far rather we build through the academy. We appear to have a wealth of full backs, midfielders, and forwards coming through the U21's and U18's at the moment, and so the policy that MP appears to be sticking to that we will strengthen the squad through the academy is one I support.

 

However, that policy doesn't work when you have a position of weakness in the first team that is also a position of weakness in your academy. I'm talking about centre back. As lovely as they are, Jos and Maya aren't sufficient cover and in an ideal world, you'd like Fonte to be the cover for another starting centre back.

 

In the U21's we've got Stephen and Turnbull, both of whom signed long term contracts last summer. The club clearly saw something in them to give them those deals but I watch all the U21 highlights and they've both made their fair share of mistakes this season. There was a stage earlier in the season where Martin Hunters interviews sounded like a broken record complaining about our defensive performances, and he singled the two of them out on a couple of occasions. We do appear to have improved defensively in recent weeks at that level though.

 

In summary, I'm more than happy that we use the academy to strengthen the squad but I really feel as though we need to buy a top quality centre back in January. We should look to move Maya on; he's probably easier to sell than Jos but then we would lose the EA Sports deal so it may be a business decision.

[Rebel]

To be really successful in the premier league, play in Europe and/or have a good cup run you need two good players in each position.

 

At the moment we don't - and too wait for the academy to fill those gaps could be a fatal mistake. Ideally your academy gives you a third player in each position.

 

Added it that you need to bring young players through gradually - giving them the odd substitute appearance, then the odd game and then shirt runs in the team - coaching them all the time - but allowing them to build their confidence and match fitness, gain experience and get streetwise.

 

Take left back at the moment - Shaw is obviously good enough to make the top class grade - but should he be playing week in week out at 17/18? No - not if you don't want him to pick up injuries and burn out before he hits his peak in mid 20s.

 

But we simply don't have any cover for him - Fox is simply not good enough to play in the Premier League. We really need an early 20 something left back who is good enough to be our first choice left back to alternate with Shaw. Target will hopefully be good enough to step up next season as the third player - and maybe the second if we end up selling Shaw.

 

If we do sell Shaw to a Chelsea I would take Bertrand in part exchange to be our first choice left back. In fact I'd ask Chelsea if we can have him on loan for the rest of this season - and not sell Shaw until the summer at the earliest.

 

As for centreback Yoshida was good enough last season when given a run in the team so it would be Hooiveld I'd move on. It's a catch 22 as he needs games to get match fit. Hopefully we'll replace Jos with Astori in January.

 

What we should have done though is bought someone like Caulker or Ilori in the Summer as it doesn't sound like Stephens or Turnbull are going to step up.

[Wade Garrett]

I'm probably in the minority, from what I can tell, in that I really don't want us to splash out buy lots of players. I would far rather we build through the academy. We appear to have a wealth of full backs, midfielders, and forwards coming through the U21's and U18's at the moment, and so the policy that MP appears to be sticking to that we will strengthen the squad through the academy is one I support.

 

However, that policy doesn't work when you have a position of weakness in the first team that is also a position of weakness in your academy. I'm talking about centre back. As lovely as they are, Jos and Maya aren't sufficient cover and in an ideal world, you'd like Fonte to be the cover for another starting centre back.

 

In the U21's we've got Stephen and Turnbull, both of whom signed long term contracts last summer. The club clearly saw something in them to give them those deals but I watch all the U21 highlights and they've both made their fair share of mistakes this season. There was a stage earlier in the season where Martin Hunters interviews sounded like a broken record complaining about our defensive performances, and he singled the two of them out on a couple of occasions. We do appear to have improved defensively in recent weeks at that level though.

 

In summary, I'm more than happy that we use the academy to strengthen the squad but I really feel as though we need to buy a top quality centre back in January. We should look to move Maya on; he's probably easier to sell than Jos but then we would lose the EA Sports deal so it may be a business decision.

 

i would add another keeper to the January list as well. How well is McCarthy playing at Reading. If Adkins thinks Gazza is so great we can chuck him in as part of the deal!

 

Good post, by the way.

[saintrich]

I think we can get by with academy players in certain positions, are we waiting for Targett to progress and possibly make the step up in the summer, before looking to move Fox on, perhaps?

 

I would agree with a centre back - Davide Astori is clearly a player we have shown interest in in the past and turns 27 in January, so we could well get his best years out of him - is now available to leave Cagliari.

 

Goalkeeping situation needs looking at - will be interesting to see if we do anything there.

 

And finally I would only look to bring in a creative player, if Gaston gets moved on - otherwise I think we are fine.

[david in sweden]

Of course the Academy is the long term answer. However, JWP, Shaw and even Chambers have come into the side looking as though they have 50+ games behind them.

 

It would be good to think there were more of the same, but at this level......we also need good experienced professionals with international caps to keep the balance..especially in defence..

 

It's not JUST about looking good ...but we have to beat sides like Chelsea and Arsenal ....and Tottenham for that matter.

 

The only unfortunate thing about bringing in " youngsters " is we can't afford to lose the points whilst they are learning to play at this level.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

In a ideal world any club would love to build a team around its own academy trained players. SFC is probably now closer to achieving that ideal than any other PL club I can think of. But in the real world a academy that generated even a single top class youngster a year (on average) would be doing very well. We've performed outstandingly in that respect of late, but it may be unrealistic to expect even our academy to sustain that level of success indefinetly. What worries this fan is the desperate lack of value out there when you're looking for quality players to fill the gap between what we produce from within, and what we must bring into the club from without.

 

Perhaps we've just been rather unlucky of late. Perhaps it's closer to the truth to say that those responsible for selecting our transfer targets need to get their act sorted out PDQ. Whatever the reason is it seems that spending what are quite large sums of money on signing players (the £10m/£15m bracket) no longer buys you the kind of near guaranteed success you'd have thought it really should do.

 

The economic implications of this are serious for a club of our size that harbours ambitions of competing near the top of the Premier League. If, more often than not, £15m only gets you a average PL player nowadays (this is still a debatable proposition to be fair) then the day may soon come when middling PL clubs like SFC can only prosper via their academy system because signing genuine top class players will become a habit that is increasingly out of our reach.

 

At the moment a productive academy is merely a nice bonus for a club like this one to posses - in the future maintaining a freakishly good academy may become absolutely indispensable just in order to survive in the crucible of Premier League competition.

[CB Fry]

In a ideal world any club would love to build a team around its own academy trained players. SFC is probably now closer to achieving that ideal than any other PL club I can think of. But in the real world a academy that generated even a single top class youngster a year (on average) would be doing very well. We've performed outstandingly in that respect of late, but it may be unrealistic to expect even our academy to sustain that level of success indefinetly. What worries this fan is the desperate lack of value out there when you're looking for quality players to fill the gap between what we produce from within, and what we must bring into the club from without.

 

Perhaps we've just been rather unlucky of late. Perhaps it's closer to the truth to say that those responsible for selecting our transfer targets need to get their act sorted out PDQ. Whatever the reason is it seems that spending what are quite large sums of money on signing players (the £10m/£15m bracket) no longer buys you the kind of near guaranteed success you'd have thought it really should do.

 

The economic implications of this are serious for a club of our size that harbours ambitions of competing near the top of the Premier League. If, more often than not, £15m only gets you a average PL player nowadays (this is still a debatable proposition to be fair) then the day may soon come when middling PL clubs like SFC can only prosper via their academy system because signing genuine top class players will become a habit that is increasingly out of our reach.

 

At the moment a productive academy is merely a nice bonus for a club like this one to posses - in the future maintaining a freakishly good academy may become absolutely indispensable just in order to survive in the crucible of Premier League competition.

 

Completely agree on the academy - one new player a year is as best as we can expect, and that would be amazing. The Lallana that played in L1 wouldn't get anywhere near a Premier first team. We simply aren't going to magic up half-teams of Prem-ready players at will.

 

Disagree about our transfer record - you're going to get your fair share of duds at whatever price you pay, and we've done well with Lovren and Victor. I think our record under Cortese stands up pretty well, and we have the right policy - I'd rather we "wasted" money on early-twenties Gaston than, say a four year contract for Defoe, Berbatov, whoever.

 

Frankly we bought well enough to finish top eight and have a go at one of the cups. And we will do that, FA Cup draw notwithstanding. I don't think we should be breaking the bank to chase much beyond that. It's up to the manager to forge the extra five percent, not for the chairman to chuck money at it.

[david in sweden]

Everyone would like to see a team with more " home-grown " talent, and we've had a few - over several decades, it's just that previously they've seldom come all at the same time.

 

If the NEXT THREE Academy lads who play 3 or 4 (reasonable) games on the trot .....prove to be as good as JWP, Shaw and Chambers, then I'll be well pleased.

 

Lawrie Mac, who had his fair share of successful youngsters; Holmes, Stokes, Steve Williams, Waldron, Hebberd, G.Baker, Steve Moran, and Danny Wallace, (but over a longer period).

 

.....did it by playing them alongside seasoned professionals with a good record; Ball, Channon, Osgood, Nicholl, Keegan, David Armstrong, and of course with Shilton at the back.

 

Just now, the " Academy " is bursting at the seams with new names, yet although we have; Boruc, Lovren, Lallana, Steve Davis and Lambert to call upon as "established names " we have seen in recent weeks, that our " second string " lacks that same quality ..and the up-and-coming newcomers have yet to prove themselves at a time when we cannot afford to lose points, if we are to get a respectable finish to the season.

 

But still I think there is great hope with... (that old Ted Bates' phrase from the 1960's) ....the right blend of youth and experience.