SW11_Saint Posted 23 December, 2013 Share Posted 23 December, 2013 He isn't up to Prem league standard clearly, but Hooiveld and Gazzaniga were worse than him yesterday. All three are sub-standard for this division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 23 December, 2013 Share Posted 23 December, 2013 Apart from his direct run towards their box which resulted in our first goal, Fox was otherwise totally crap. There were acres of space to our left flank for Spurs to exploit and they gleefully availed themselves of every opportunity. It must be common knowledge for every manager with any nous that when we play him, he is the weak link. Unfortunately Rodriguez offered him little protection, which didn't help.There was one time when my count of the goals that Spurs should have scored reached 6, but thankfully they missed some chances where it would almost have been easier to score.Their defence was also pretty dire, but ours was even worse. There was probably no better time to have played them, but with Hooiveld and Fox playing, we blew it. If Pochettino plays either of them again, then one will have to seriously question his tactical ability. Enough is enough. Well said... You have to seriously question a decision to pick these guys - we do have other options. What message does this send to quality players when they they see these poor players continually being picked..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratio_decidendi Posted 23 December, 2013 Share Posted 23 December, 2013 Apart from his direct run towards their box which resulted in our first goal, Fox was otherwise totally crap. There were acres of space to our left flank for Spurs to exploit and they gleefully availed themselves of every opportunity. It must be common knowledge for every manager with any nous that when we play him, he is the weak link. Unfortunately Rodriguez offered him little protection, which didn't help.There was one time when my count of the goals that Spurs should have scored reached 6, but thankfully they missed some chances where it would almost have been easier to score.Their defence was also pretty dire, but ours was even worse. There was probably no better time to have played them, but with Hooiveld and Fox playing, we blew it. If Pochettino plays either of them again, then one will have to seriously question his tactical ability. Enough is enough. Hang on. Are you saying that Pochettino realistically had a choice between playing the pair? Shaw and Fonte were both unavailable, and the alternatives to Fox and Jos would have been a lot worse. Also, how can you question Pochettino's ability in the future should he be forced in similar situations to play them both again? Sure, if our 'best' back four are available, but then why he do that? Are you not being slightly too quick to criticise the manager here? It's also wrong to say that we "blew it" just because those two were playing. There were other factors involved including lack of a first team goalkeeper, overall fatigue within the team, and a slight naivety in tactics reminiscent of Adkins early days in the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Donovan Posted 23 December, 2013 Share Posted 23 December, 2013 Shaw was not unavailable!! He tweeted that he could of played but the boss wanted to rest him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 23 December, 2013 Share Posted 23 December, 2013 Certainly wasn't the worse player yesterday and wasn't helped by the fact that for most of the match we seemed to play without a left midfielder, until JWP came on and Fox himself moved there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 23 December, 2013 Share Posted 23 December, 2013 he was absolute tosh. he completely fell asleep to let Adebayor get the 3rd. Yet people still blame Gazza....nothing he could do about any of the goals. Hooiveld and Fox are total liabilities: did you not notice how every attack came down our left and that this threat was snuffed out when Fox was subbed and an 18 year old Rb was moved to LB? Truly awful player that should never (along with Jos) play for Saints again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 23 December, 2013 Share Posted 23 December, 2013 Shaw was not unavailable!! He tweeted that he could of played but the boss wanted to rest him Read Rebel's excellent post in the thread about our academy and bringing youth players in quicker: "Take left back at the moment - Shaw is obviously good enough to make the top class grade - but should he be playing week in week out at 17/18? No - not if you don't want him to pick up injuries and burn out before he hits his peak in mid 20s." It's a tough call, but I trust Pochettino to make sensible decisions about the kids, even though I'm dying to see them play every game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 23 December, 2013 Share Posted 23 December, 2013 Shaw was not unavailable!! He tweeted that he could of played but the boss wanted to rest him There's a difference between being physically able to play and it being sensible to do so if under the weather with a throat infection. IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 I thought Foxy did ok yesterday, not great but ok. When you come through the leagues as quick as we did, you're going to end up with championship players as back Ups. You strengthen the starting 11 and you're left with reserves who are on decent championship money, but not good enough for premiership. Established premiership clubs will have premiership players as reserves. Which premiership left backs are going to come and understudy Shaw. On the general point of scapegoats, why do blokes doing their best , but not good enough, get clog, yet good players playing poorly get away with it.Lambert was poor yesterday, has been pretty poor most of the season. JRod was poor, Gaston is a monumental waste of money, Osvaldo is hit and miss. Fox, Jos and Gazza are poor, **** poor, but they are doing their best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Donovan Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 There's a difference between being physically able to play and it being sensible to do so if under the weather with a throat infection. IMO of course. I'd personally rather play Luke shaw at 80 percent than Danny fox, wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 Shaw's own twitter post said he was available to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 I'd personally rather play Luke shaw at 80 percent than Danny fox, wouldn't you? Depends. With games coming thick and fast, playing someone at 80% might mean they aren't 100% for the next game. I guess its debate able whether playing Shaw at 80% for two games in the trot is better than resting him for one game then having him at nearer 100% for the 2nd game. Without knowing the precise nature of his illness it's difficult to judge from the confines of an internet football forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 Hang on. Are you saying that Pochettino realistically had a choice between playing the pair? Shaw and Fonte were both unavailable, and the alternatives to Fox and Jos would have been a lot worse. Also, how can you question Pochettino's ability in the future should he be forced in similar situations to play them both again? Sure, if our 'best' back four are available, but then why he do that? Are you not being slightly too quick to criticise the manager here? It's also wrong to say that we "blew it" just because those two were playing. There were other factors involved including lack of a first team goalkeeper, overall fatigue within the team, and a slight naivety in tactics reminiscent of Adkins early days in the Premier League. Yes, I am saying that Pochettino had some choices apart from playing the pair. Fonte was on the bench, so why put him there if he was not fit enough to play? But my main gripe was with him playing Fox and there were certainly alternatives there. I presume that had Fox been injured, then those alternatives would have to been implemented and in my opinion those alternatives would have been preferable to playing him even if he was fit (fit physically, that is, not fit otherwise, as he isn't fit otherwise). What is this overall fatigue in the team you talk about? Spurs had a midweek Cup match, we didn't. Weren't they tired? Do we need a break of more than 8 days to recover from our last match? Or do you mean that the Pochettino regime is responsible for the players' tiredness? And this tactical naivety, was that in the substitutions alone, or was it the team selection? Why shouldn't I question Pochettino's tactical nous if he plays Fox and Hooiveld again, even if on the face of it he is "forced" to by circumstances? When do you reach the point whereby certain players prove themselves to be liabilities whose shortcomings will be ruthlessly exploited by rival managers and therefore gamble on finding alternatives who might do a better job and who will be an unknown quantity to rival managers? Shaw, Chambers and Ward-Prowse were very recent introductions to the first team and there are apparently a couple of youngsters knocking on the door. Fonte and Shaw will probably be back anyway, but if we find ourselves without them again soon, I'd happily see the blooding of a couple of youngsters rather than Fox and Hooiveld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 Yes, I am saying that Pochettino had some choices apart from playing the pair. Fonte was on the bench, so why put him there if he was not fit enough to play? But my main gripe was with him playing Fox and there were certainly alternatives there. I presume that had Fox been injured, then those alternatives would have to been implemented and in my opinion those alternatives would have been preferable to playing him even if he was fit (fit physically, that is, not fit otherwise, as he isn't fit otherwise). What is this overall fatigue in the team you talk about? Spurs had a midweek Cup match, we didn't. Weren't they tired? Do we need a break of more than 8 days to recover from our last match? Or do you mean that the Pochettino regime is responsible for the players' tiredness? And this tactical naivety, was that in the substitutions alone, or was it the team selection? Why shouldn't I question Pochettino's tactical nous if he plays Fox and Hooiveld again, even if on the face of it he is "forced" to by circumstances? When do you reach the point whereby certain players prove themselves to be liabilities whose shortcomings will be ruthlessly exploited by rival managers and therefore gamble on finding alternatives who might do a better job and who will be an unknown quantity to rival managers? Shaw, Chambers and Ward-Prowse were very recent introductions to the first team and there are apparently a couple of youngsters knocking on the door. Fonte and Shaw will probably be back anyway, but if we find ourselves without them again soon, I'd happily see the blooding of a couple of youngsters rather than Fox and Hooiveld but we saw the alternative to Fox, JWP on the right and Chambers on the left....that's it, MPo isn't going to play Cork at RB from the start because he's not very great at it. Even if we'd started JWP and Chambers how would we have eventually overcome a midfield change...stick Fox in there because all those who seem to be dreaming of Reed being played as a CM in the PL at any time soon are seriously deluded I think. We don't have enough fit players just now, hopefully that will change for Thursday's game but I suspect that we didn't even have 13 fully fit first team regulars on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 but we saw the alternative to Fox, JWP on the right and Chambers on the left....that's it, MPo isn't going to play Cork at RB from the start because he's not very great at it. Even if we'd started JWP and Chambers how would we have eventually overcome a midfield change...stick Fox in there because all those who seem to be dreaming of Reed being played as a CM in the PL at any time soon are seriously deluded I think. We don't have enough fit players just now, hopefully that will change for Thursday's game but I suspect that we didn't even have 13 fully fit first team regulars on Sunday. JWP and Shaw as fullbacks, with Morgan, Davis and Cork in midfield. Would leave us very narrow but at least our best available players would be in the lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 (edited) JWP and Shaw as fullbacks, with Morgan, Davis and Cork in midfield. Would leave us very narrow but at least our best available players would be in the lineup. Shaw was pronounced ill by the docs and was not available for selection. If he'd been iffy but playable he'd have been on the bench but he wasn't. Edited 24 December, 2013 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 Shaw was pronounced ill by the docs and was not available for selection. If he'd been iffy but playable he'd have been on the bench but he wasn't. Sorry JWP and Chambers as fullbacks with Davis, Cork and Morgan in midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 Sorry JWP and Chambers as fullbacks with Davis, Cork and Morgan in midfield. yes and when you need a change in midfield what do you so then, Reed isn't an option really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 yes and when you need a change in midfield what do you so then, Reed isn't an option really. Bring on another striker like he did Sunday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 Fox was awful yesterday especially in the second half - he was repeatedly skinned mainly by Adebayor. It was embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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