sandwichsaint Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 I thought initially he was 'OK' when he played last season, it was a long time ago and people's perceptions have moved on but I remember his distribution at this time was particularly all-right, he was confident with the ball at his feet, but perhaps over-confident? Silly goal against Swansea, melt-down at QPR and then a completely shell shocked performance against Norwich. All confidence gone, the thin line between being OK and not being good enough was crossed. Sensibly withdrawn after this but alas he has regressed massively. We were all hoping that 12 months on the training ground with Boruc/Davis/Mopo would have kicked him onto the next level but alas it was not to be. It's clear from his 'performances' this year that his confidence is shot, his faculties scrambled, paralysis by analysis; goal keeping is all between the ears, 'keepers have a far narrower skill set than outfield players, a much narrower focus. It's all about reading/anticipation/mental strength and backing yourself to do the right thing - Gazza does none of these things. He cowers in his goal like a frightened child, racked by self-doubt, scared of his own shadow, unable to make the transition from spectator to participant. He wouldn't be the first, read Tony Cascarino on playing for Ireland, driving to the games on the team coach and feeling petrified of the forthcoming game, desperately wanting to swap places with any of the fans on the street. Charlie Wigelius wrote the same in his cycling autobiog (brilliant book!) of travelling to a race on the team bus and wanting to swap places with the weekend warriors who had cycled out to watch the race. Call it bottle, call it destiny, call it temperament; most sports stars have it, some don't. 4 weeks ago he was living the dream; in the dressing room with the lads, part of a highly acclaimed project, sat on the bench at Stamford Bridge watching Premier league football close-up and in glorious technicolor - and getting paid for it- what's not to like? One injury to AB and that all changes, Gazza was positively bricking it, AB was reluctant to come off (we can all see why now) and Gazza was reluctant to go on (we can see why now). He's just not cut out for it - I'm sure he's a decent guy - he was highly rated at Gillingham, I work with Gills ST holders and he was picking up rave reports there (Saint Charlie will tell you the book in which he was rated as one as one of the brightest prospect in the lower leagues), it was not wrong to buy him, it just hasn't worked out. Sometimes we all have to move on. Not sure what moving him to a lower lge club on loan would do for him or for us, he will never be a GK at the standard we require, I would be very surprised if he was still a professional footballer when his contract runs out. Why would a club sign him? Why would a manager play him? A non-saving goalkeeper. He appears to be pathologically incapable of doing the job he is paid for - he looks a decent guy, he's lived the dream, it hasn't quite worked out - move on. Gym instructor? Primary school teacher? Maybe something in the forces? He's still got time. I don't believe Cropper could be worse (worse than what?); if our 4th choice keeper is genuinely 'worse' than Gazza, our second choice keeper is KD (top bloke and SFC all round good guy), and our third choice keeper looks like a competition winner we aren't going where NC thinks we are any time soon. #Cathartic! Roll-on Thursday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratio_decidendi Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 This has been pointed out before, and I don't mean to flog a dead horse but: "Terrible keeper Will never make it at the top flight in England" Not only is the OP's language, to put it lightly, entirely unproductive and negative, how can such a judgement be made with regards to a 21-year-old goalkeeper? It's not uncommon that goalkeepers tend to peak later than others, so they need time to grow and develop. It is, of course, unfortunate for us that he has this opportunity in Southampton's first team, but he will be all the better for it in the future. This may benefit us immensely if he turns out to be worth a bit of dollar. Negative comments do not help - especially when they're worded as such and are completely devoid of any reasonable lines of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 thing for me is you cannot learn keeping on a practice field, he needs to go out on loan where he will have to make decisions every week not just because 2 other people are injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 Simon Peach has tweeted Davis may well be fit for thursday, fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 thing for me is you cannot learn keeping on a practice field' date=' he needs to go out on loan where he will have to make decisions every week not just because 2 other people are injured.[/quote'] Yep good post. The kid has clearly got some ability judging by the rave reviews he was getting at Gillingham, which would suggest he also has the ability to improve. Unfortunately he has been thrown in at the the deep end too soon and it has destroyed his confidence. You can see it, he virtually ****s his shorts every time the ball comes near him. He needs to go out to a lower level to carry on learning his trade and rebuild his shattered confidence or it could be the end of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 thing for me is you cannot learn keeping on a practice field' date=' he needs to go out on loan where he will have to make decisions every week not just because 2 other people are injured.[/quote'] so why hasn't he then instead of rotting somewhere or other in our set-up, I mean surely we didn't anticipate KD and AB being injured at the same time and I don't think Gazza has been a total regular in the U21s, could be wrong there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 There's a reason very, very few kids that age play top level first team football. The role takes experience and it takes a very special young lad (e.g. Joe Hart) to carry the burden that young. so we're in the business of nurturing unexceptional keepers. well that's par for the course with us, yeah. Alan Blayney, Michael Poke, and Scott Bevan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 so we're in the business of nurturing unexceptional keepers. well that's par for the course with us, yeah. Alan Blayney, Michael Poke, and Scott Bevan can't remember too much about Bevan but Blayney and Poke weren't absolutely ridiculous on the few occasions when they had to step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 so why hasn't he then instead of rotting somewhere or other in our set-up, I mean surely we didn't anticipate KD and AB being injured at the same time and I don't think Gazza has been a total regular in the U21s, could be wrong there though. good question only MP can answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 good question only MP can answer won't be MP who decides who goes out on loan and who doesn't. That's a development/finance thing I believe. It's a bit odd that we have Gazzaniga, Cropper and Britt as our young keepers and not one of them has been loaned out even for a short time to get a bit of experience. Assuming that AB and KD are the first team keepers that leaves us with 3 princesses for one glass slipper or whatever the old fairy tale says about that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 (edited) so we're in the business of nurturing unexceptional keepers. well that's par for the course with us, yeah. Alan Blayney, Michael Poke, and Scott Bevan So are the vast majority of football clubs around the world, that's kind of what exceptional means. There really are only a handful of top-flight, first team goalkeepers younger than 24 and you're incredibly lucky if you have one who's up to it. There are none in the Premier League at the moment. Edited 24 December, 2013 by DuncanRG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 (edited) So are the vast majority of football clubs around the world, that's kind of what exceptional means. There really are only a handful of top-flight, first team goalkeepers younger than 24 and you're incredibly lucky if you have one who's up to it. There are none in the Premier League at the moment. Sure about that ? Not even one ? How old do you think De Gea is then or Cszesny ? The fact that they've been playing for top sides for a while now has obviously thrown you. In fact if you look at all PL keepers habitually starting games i think you'd find that the vast majority are in fact under 30. Edited 24 December, 2013 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 so why hasn't he then instead of rotting somewhere or other in our set-up, I mean surely we didn't anticipate KD and AB being injured at the same time and I don't think Gazza has been a total regular in the U21s, could be wrong there though. MP said quite soon after he took over that Gazzaniga wouldn't be going out on loan as he's likely to learn more spending time training with his coaching team, than he would going out on loan to a lower club and potentially picking up bad habits. Or words to that affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 And to think £2 million would put Gazza in our top 15 most expensive transfer list Mayuka and Forren make the top 15 too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 (edited) MP said quite soon after he took over that Gazzaniga wouldn't be going out on loan as he's likely to learn more spending time training with his coaching team, than he would going out on loan to a lower club and potentially picking up bad habits. Or words to that affect. that seems to have worked out well then, bad habits like the occasional save or non f*cked up coming out for a cross I could live with. I like Mauricio and wouldn't criticise him as a rule but if that really is his opinion on Gazza then he's wrong. Being loaned out hasn't done Courtois any harm. Edited 24 December, 2013 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 Sure about that ? Not even one ? How old do you think De Gea is then or Cszesny ? The fact that they've been playing for top sides for a while now has obviously thrown you. In fact if you look at all PL keepers habitually starting games i think you'd find that the vast majority are in fact under 30. I stand corrected - proper brain fart moment. We should remember the teething problems De Gea had though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 I stand corrected - proper brain fart moment. We should remember the teething problems De Gea had though! he was about 12 at the time though, Gazza hasn't got what it takes, no amount of coaching will change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 Is it not glaringly obvious that 1. Most keepers peak later than outfield players? 2. Gazzaniga's problems are mostly psychological? Nerves, decision making etc? I'm not saying Gazzaniga will be a good or great keeper - I have no idea either way, but to me dismissing a 21 year-old keeper is like dismissing an 18-year old striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Saint Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 he was about 12 at the time though, Gazza hasn't got what it takes, no amount of coaching will change that. The sooner we cut our loses the better imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 December, 2013 Share Posted 24 December, 2013 The sooner we cut our loses the better imho. Indeed because otherwise he'll be bottlenecking any other real prospects that we have behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Did somebody kidnap Gazza and substitute a doppelganger today ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 (edited) he was about 12 at the time though, Gazza hasn't got what it takes, no amount of coaching will change that. Wasnt de gea older than gazza? EDIT - indeed he was, 22 last season, gazza is 21. Edited 26 December, 2013 by Saint_clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Good today besides one suicidal attempt at a first-time clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 (edited) Did well today, but still scares the sh*t out of me every time the ball goes near him. Edited 26 December, 2013 by Jack Idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Good today besides one suicidal attempt at a first-time clearance. The defence played him into trouble - I thought there were 3 or 4 occasions when we kept it at the back a bit too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Did well today, but still scares the sh*t out of me every time the ball goes near me. You should get out of the way quicker then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 The defence played him into trouble - I thought there were 3 or 4 occasions when we kept it at the back a bit too long. Not that time they didn't, he had more than enough time to take a touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suhari Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Was decent today. Couple of reaction saves, and some dominance on crosses. Admittedly his punching wasn't great, but at least he was making decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 It takes time for any player to get used to playing in the Premier League, especially a 21 year old goalkeeper who has seen little or no action of any kind this season. He still shows plenty of potential, anyone writing him off because of a few mistakes is an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Still looked poor on crosses and gave them a lift start of 2nd half with some iffy moments but best game since coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Still looked poor on crosses and gave them a lift start of 2nd half with some iffy moments but best game since coming in. Suppose this is the important thing, that he's showing improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 He did what was expected of him today, but is still worth 1 or 2 clangers a game. He was let off the hook once or twice today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suhari Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Suppose this is the important thing, that he's showing improvement. Pod we still reckon he is young, hungry and likely to improve?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 One thing I did notice was that when the ball is played backwards he turns completely sideways, like he's about to let it run out for a corner. It's kind of awkward and means he can only really play the ball in one direction. I'm not sure if it's something that he's been coached into but he has a weird style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Pod we still reckon he is young, hungry and likely to improve?? Not sure what the pod is supposed to mean, but yes he is young, he is definitely hungry (see his reactions to us scoring), and he is more likely to improve than get worse. Completely irrelevant of course to my point that his performance today was an improvement on previous ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch01 Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 As I have always said, he has the necessary quality to be a very good keeper. His technique and reach is better than Kelvin's, therefore he is a good prospect. He can also play a bit with his feet. However, as has already been pointed out on this thread, that is only half the battle for a professional keeper. He appears to be a weaker keeper now than he was when he was first in the team, meaning he has struggled to mentally shake off his mistakes. Decision-making and confidence have got to be much much better if he's ever going to get anywhere with us. Today was a step in the right direction though. If I had to guess, I'd say he'll end up in the Championship. Its very rare for a keeper to be this shaky for this long and to end up as a top class performer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 He had a good game today but only by his standards I hope people aren't naive enough to think he's anywhere nr good enough to be a premiership keeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 (edited) We should only let players who will automatically be brilliant and the finished article play for SFC in any position. Goalies are the worst. If you are rubbish at lb or cf you can get taken off - but at gk its much worse. I remember when most of our so- called best players were not all that great at 90 minutes....Adam lallana when he was at Bournemouth on loan for instance...MS when he was apparently unable to tackle, shaw and chambers were sperm cells...only player I recall " doing it" from the off was SRL who scored on debut....basically it's about a 10% chance they are great from the off- 90% they won't- and the time scale could be 3 years plus ( as per Morgan for instance).... Edited 26 December, 2013 by Giordano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 So why do so many think that gazza is rubbish when clearly he is just learning his trade? He just needs games at a good level and confidence from being picked and some clean sheets. Doesn't anyone remember how " rubbish" de gea was ? Gazza would never get in I f picked by the fifa14 saints supporting managers out there. Should we put kd in or how about cc? It's laughable really. If you can't be positive about an no option situation please give him your support and let MP make the call.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Didn't see him today, but still having nightmares about quite how bad he was against Spurs. Question to those who saw the game - Sky Sports saying Cardiff had no shots on target, so did he actually have a save to make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Didn't see him today, but still having nightmares about quite how bad he was against Spurs. Question to those who saw the game - Sky Sports saying Cardiff had no shots on target, so did he actually have a save to make? He made a couple of quite decent ones. At least one was from a deflection which might have affected the stats Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 It takes time for any player to get used to playing in the Premier League, especially a 21 year old goalkeeper who has seen little or no action of any kind this season. He still shows plenty of potential, anyone writing him off because of a few mistakes is an idiot. agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Minus some dodgy kicks the lad did very well after the last few performances. Defence looked much better with out OG Jos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 (edited) He had a good game today but only by his standards I hope people aren't naive enough to think he's anywhere nr good enough to be a premiership keeper Look, I also have a mild heart attack when watching him but he's 21 FFS and a damn good 21 year old! Put into context, he has 12 years less experience than Boruc, it's like expecting a clerk at a law firm to step up and do the partner's job; keepers improve with age and I think Gazza is going to be some keeper eventually. Edited 26 December, 2013 by farawaysaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch01 Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Look, I also have a mild heart attack when watching him but he's 21 FFS and a damn good 21 year old! Put into context he has 12 years less experience than Boruc, it's like expecting a clerk at a law firm to step up and do the partner's job; keepers improve with age and I think Gazza is going to be some keeper eventually. I respect that position but he really is a bag of nerves, 21 year old or not. He makes some really poor decisions, and a really exceptional goalkeeping talent wouldn't (in my opinion) be doing that this regularly at 21 with a fair few PL appearances under his belt. I've always been of the opinion that he has some great ability (that excellent save at home to Newcastle last season for example), but at some point he has to start showing a bit of command of his box and self-assurance. I haven't really seen that so far. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he had a very good career in football but the regularity of his suspect moments suggests to me that it won't happen fast enough to be with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 He made a couple of quite decent ones. At least one was from a deflection which might have affected the stats There was another one in the first half that had already been flagged for offside so it did not count as a shot on target in the stats, but Gazza didn't know that and made a good save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 A lot more brave and better decision making. Still nervous and not full of confidence though but a step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 There was another one in the first half that had already been flagged for offside so it did not count as a shot on target in the stats, but Gazza didn't know that and made a good save. For the offside goal, he let in a virtually identical one against Chelsea. The shot is going to his left yet he has to reach over and across with his right hand. It just adds to the reaction time. Keepers should be able to make one handed saves with both hands, He also survived a similar incident to the one that led to Adebayor's first on Sunday, this time he was fortunate enough to be able to rock back and take the ball virtually on the byline without any incoming attackers. Don't get me wrong - he had a better game but the cracks were still on show, papered over by Cardiff's utter prolifigacy and toothlesnees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 Window Licker seems conspicuous by his absence on this thread today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 26 December, 2013 Share Posted 26 December, 2013 How did Mignolet do for MCs goals today? Precisely. Too much criticsm not enough support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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