Councillor to have diversity training after golliwog remarks

[pap]

Were you unaware of the cultural differences because you were in an unfamiliar culture? Who should adapt to whom?

 

Yes I was unaware because of the cultural differences of an unfamiliar culture. Any migrant must respect the laws of the host nation, but even so, there are differences between people that we observe and respect, even if it is at a person to person level. I don't agree with all of the opinions of the right wingers on here, but if they argue honourably, they have my respect.

 

One of my best friends is a vegetarian. I respect that and make sure that she is well catered for in any restaurant that we visit. Some of my friends are Muslim. I'd never dream of offering them an alcoholic drink or a bacon sandwich.

 

We continually adapt to people on an individual basis. Why is it so hard for people to accept a few wider recommendations? Lest we forget, the golliwog that that many are defending was a cultural staple at one point, the second most popular toy in Europe. That may be part of the problem. A beloved toy with such positive connotations being hijacked by the politically correct crowd. That's fair enough, but in 2013 when we've got so many more positive and inspiring examples of black people, this smiling minstrel has had its day when it comes to representing.

Edited 20 December, 2013 by pap

[Hokie]

Interesting thread. If you were at a pub with a black mate, and someone called him a golliwog, how would you react?

[solentstars]

Interesting thread. If you were at a pub with a black mate, and someone called him a golliwog, how would you react?

 

You would want to punch the ignorant bigots lights out but they would be to thick to understand it and will call it political correctness for there lack of manners.

[aintforever]

I hate stories like this, the ***t who said it knew some people find it offensive, that's why she said it.

 

It's just pandering to the swivel-eyed right wingers who just love to go around moaning about "political correctness gone mad".

[trousers]

Yes I was unaware because of the cultural differences of an unfamiliar culture. Any migrant must respect the laws of the host nation, but even so, there are differences between people that we observe and respect, even if it is at a person to person level. I don't agree with all of the opinions of the right wingers on here, but if they argue honourably, they have my respect.

 

One of my best friends is a vegetarian. I respect that and make sure that she is well catered for in any restaurant that we visit. Some of my friends are Muslim. I'd never dream of offering them an alcoholic drink or a bacon sandwich.

 

We continually adapt to people on an individual basis. Why is it so hard for people to accept a few wider recommendations? Lest we forget, the golliwog that that many are defending was a cultural staple at one point, the second most popular toy in Europe. That may be part of the problem. A beloved toy with such positive connotations being hijacked by the politically correct crowd. That's fair enough, but in 2013 when we've got so many more positive and inspiring examples of black people, this smiling minstrel has had its day when it comes to representing.

 

If it's so easy for humans to 'adapt' to changes in understanding over the years, why is that seemingly a one way process?

 

If people 'today' like "gollys" from a purely aesthetic perspective why can't those who might have previously been offended by supposed more sinister connotations 'adapt' their views about people that, today, see 'gollys" as a completely innocent character?

Edited 20 December, 2013 by trousers

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Being offensive makes the perpetrator an arsehole whatever form that rudeness takes. The issue in this story is the fact that an elderly lady is being sent on a 'diversity course' for what is essentially a very trivial statement. Is it not something you would expect in North Korea to 're-educate' people for something that is a generational issue - an absurd overreaction.

 

The people that take offence on behalf of others do far more damage than those that hold old fashioned attitudes. Why not send the Brighton lynch mob on a course to teach them that the lady meant no offence but when she was growing up golliwogs were simply part of a bed time story and she might feel a little sentimental about it. For that matter should vegetarians not be sent on a course to be taught that at dinner parties they cannot expect all the other guests to have to eat nut loaf just to accommodate them or maybe the councillors that seek to restrict Christmas decorations in their town so as not to offend other religions, that people have put up Xmas decorations up for several hundred years and it is not really meant to be designed to ram it down the throats of others and that they are just carrying on a tradition.

 

All the people I know that they inadvertently patronise are very embarrassed by those that take offence on their behalf. Perhaps they should concentrate on the real bigots of which I am sorry to say they are among.

Edited 20 December, 2013 by Sergei Gotsmanov

[hypochondriac]

People from Brighton love acting like drama queens.

[richie]

I would love to see the Gollywog defenders on here (great name for a band btw) take their toys and nostalgic memorabilia to Brixton and explain to some of the Black population there just why they are harmless fun and a good time for all.

 

I will assume you are white. You have made a massive generalisation there. I'm white, my wife is black - we have a gollywog stuck on our fridge and think nothing of it.

 

Get a grip man.

 

Oh **** I have a gollywog on my fridge. Come and take my two mixed race children off me now!!!!!!!

 

I bet the people who complained were white on behalf of non whote people who really couldnt give a sh1t either way about gollywogs!!

[Halo Stickman]

Barnett says that golliwogs are nostalgic rather than racist.

 

Choudary and Bakri refuse to condemn the slaughter of Lee Rigby by people claiming to be ‘soldiers of Allah’.

 

One of them is ordered to undergo diversity training.

[SuperMikey]

I will assume you are white. You have made a massive generalisation there. I'm white, my wife is black - we have a gollywog stuck on our fridge and think nothing of it.

 

Get a grip man.

 

Oh **** I have a gollywog on my fridge. Come and take my two mixed race children off me now!!!!!!!

 

I bet the people who complained were white on behalf of non whote people who really couldnt give a sh1t either way about gollywogs!!

 

I am white, yes. My point is that, while people might not find gollywogs offensive, they are still racist to a degree. It's something that i've talked about with my friends of all ethnicities. It's great that you and your wife don't take them seriously, but there are some people who do and are offended by things like that. You might call my objection to gollywogs being overly-PC, but I don't care.

[Griffo]

I am white, yes. My point is that, while people might not find gollywogs offensive, they are still racist to a degree. It's something that i've talked about with my friends of all ethnicities.

 

You and your friends must have some proper exciting times together.

[SuperMikey]

You and your friends must have some proper exciting times together.

 

I like to think so.

[Saint in Paradise]

How long before "diversity training" gets harsher as people are still not being "educated"

as well as the lefties demand?

 

All dictatorships usually end up with "camps" for those who refuse to reform. North Korea

has been mentioned but remember U.S.S.R. China as well as Argentina in South America

where people "disappeared".

[hypochondriac]

How long before "diversity training" gets harsher as people are still not being "educated"

as well as the lefties demand?

 

All dictatorships usually end up with "camps" for those who refuse to reform. North Korea

has been mentioned but remember U.S.S.R. China as well as Argentina in South America

where people "disappeared".

 

Whilst I disagree with this particular case, that comparison is just nuts.

[Sour Mash]

I am white, yes. My point is that, while people might not find gollywogs offensive, they are still racist to a degree. It's something that i've talked about with my friends of all ethnicities. It's great that you and your wife don't take them seriously, but there are some people who do and are offended by things like that. You might call my objection to gollywogs being overly-PC, but I don't care.

I very much doubt that there are many people in this world that are genuinely offended by gollywogs. There are plenty of things in this world to get offended by, this is pretty far down the list.

[hypochondriac]

I very much doubt that there are many people in this world that are genuinely offended by gollywogs. There are plenty of things in this world to get offended by, this is pretty far down the list.

 

I hope I never meet these people. I don't think we would get along...

[SuperMikey]

I very much doubt that there are many people in this world that are genuinely offended by gollywogs. There are plenty of things in this world to get offended by, this is pretty far down the list.

 

It's true that it's not exactly the most offensive thing out there, but it's a bit naive to suggest that very few people would be offended by them. I found 3 articles after a quick Google search that shows at least some people find them offensive - including the BBC...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7868401.stm

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368713/Tory-husband-wife-posed-golliwogs-Facebook-forced-leave-conservatives.html

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/golly-dolls-seized-by-cops-985434

 

I hope I never meet these people. I don't think we would get along...

It must be difficult to find people who are as intellectually stimulating and charismatic as you Hypo. Social experiences (however few and far between) must be a real bore for you.

Edited 21 December, 2013 by SuperMikey

[Lord Duckhunter]

Gollywogs are clearly some sort of caricature of black blokes , and the word wog is clearly inappropriate in this day and age.

 

There isn't somebody who sits around deciding what is or isn't appropriate, or a body whose job it is to decide what is or isn't offensive, its just over a number of years the culture of a country changes. It wasn't that gollywogs were deemed offensive by some sort of law , just that most people thought we're better off consigning them to the past. Personally im glad they are, as there's no place for them in a modern country in public. If somebody wants to put one on a fridge magnet, or on their bed, that's up to them, but personally i would be uncomfortable explaing to my children why i had one. If one of my mates came up the alehouse with a golly badge on , id think he was a tw at rather than a racist, but would really wonder what the point was.

 

As for diversity training, the ones I've done have always struck me as a company covering their backside. There was nothing in it thst anyone needed re educating about, anyone with half a brain would know what was appropriate and what wasn't. Companies just do it to ensure compliance if they need to sack someone imo.

[pap]

If it's so easy for humans to 'adapt' to changes in understanding over the years, why is that seemingly a one way process?

 

If people 'today' like "gollys" from a purely aesthetic perspective why can't those who might have previously been offended by supposed more sinister connotations 'adapt' their views about people that, today, see 'gollys" as a completely innocent character?

 

You're making out like adaptation to the host culture isn't happening. By and large, it is. Most people who have moved from another country to live here have had to make huge adjustments to their own lives.

 

There has been a black community in this country for over three hundred years. Granted, the fifties broadened that community massively, but even then, when do the descendants of those immigrants need to stop adapting? How many generations do you think is appropriate before we finally say "fair enough, you're a Brit, people will have to adapt to you too"?

 

Immigration is a two-way street. To do as you suggest, you have to assume that their is some kind of cultural norm that immigrants to ascribe to. As we've seen on the Nationalism thread, just identifying ourselves is enough of a problem. What do we hold up as the normal standard that immigrants should adhere to? You must have some idea of the "core of Britishness" that immigrants should adopt, but I certainly don't, and wouldn't know where to start if I tried.

 

Finally, let's divorce ourselves from the notion that golly is an innocent character. I can accept that as children, people will have thought that. As adults living in a more enlightened age and a much more nuanced understanding of race relations, doesn't wash as well. Your childhood memories can stay as they are. The discussion is whether golliwog is an acceptable toy or term to use in 2013. Personally, I'm happier with the more authentic representation of black people that I live and work with. Golly has had its time.

Edited 21 December, 2013 by pap

[Barry Sanchez]

but if they argue honourably, they have my respect.

 

Pap you are so far up your own arse it really is funny:lol:

[Wes Tender]

Being offensive makes the perpetrator an arsehole whatever form that rudeness takes. The issue in this story is the fact that an elderly lady is being sent on a 'diversity course' for what is essentially a very trivial statement. Is it not something you would expect in North Korea to 're-educate' people for something that is a generational issue - an absurd overreaction. The people that take offence on behalf of others do far more damage than those that hold old fashioned attitudes. Why not send the Brighton lynch mob on a course to teach them that the lady meant no offence but when she was growing up golliwogs were simply part of a bed time story and she might feel a little sentimental about it. For that matter should vegetarians not be sent on a course to be taught that at dinner parties they cannot expect all the other guests to have to eat nut loaf just to accommodate them or maybe the councillors that seek to restrict Christmas decorations in their town so as not to offend other religions, that people have put up Xmas decorations up for several hundred years and it is not really meant to be designed to ram it down the throats of others and that they are just carrying on a tradition. All the people I know that they inadvertently patronise are very embarrassed by those that take offence on their behalf. Perhaps they should concentrate on the real bigots of which I am sorry to say they are among.

Bravo! Attempting to justify "diversity" courses by the thought police in this petty instance against the background of soldiers in Northern Ireland, or the implications of naive tourists failing to understand the cultural imperatives of the country they are visiting is taking this matter way out of proportion.

It's (diversity training) probably worthwhile for people who represent a diverse range of constituents, such as this councillor.

It's not. This is a local councilllor who was elected by a majority of her constituents. She represents a part of Brighton comprising voters of a social demographic the majority of whose opinions on a range of policy matters and political leanings are likely to be in accord with her own. Any candidate putting themselves forward in any type of election will obviously have to be seen to represent the broad interests of their electorate in order to be elected. Do you really believe that the local Council officers should have the right to interfere in the political process and insist that certain elected Councillors should undergo indoctrination of ideas which they consider to be politically correct? Let's just extend it to MPs too, shall we, and have the Civil Service Mandarins dictate that all candidates up for election will have to undergo diversity training before they can stand. Interference in petty matters like this by Brighton's PC Gauleiters is the thin end of the wedge, a constant drip drip that is increasingly frustrating and annoying the man in the street and eventually there will be a backlash against it.

[Wurzel]

Interesting thread. If you were at a pub with a black mate, and someone called him a golliwog, how would you react?

 

Isn't that the point though. That would be saying he looked like the golliwog. Not that the golliwog looked like him.

 

I had one as a child. I never once considered that it represented any form of human, black or otherwise, any more than a teddy bear was meant to represent a real bear. It was just, plain and simply, a toy (and one of my favourites I seem to remember - no, not a "some of my best toys were black" claim), If the toy came first and the word "wog" derived from golliwog then the word "wog" is wrong, just as ****** or paki is wrong. But can't see that that is any fault of existence of the toy.

 

BTW, do a google image search of "traditional voodoo dolls". Despite coming from a "black" culture, a very high percentage of these are white. Should we be offended? I'm certainly not.

[pap]

but if they argue honourably, they have my respect.

 

Pap you are so far up your own arse it really is funny:lol:

 

That's curable. I can simply poo myself out.

 

I feel blessed to have so few problems, comparatively speaking

[View From The Top]

Always amusing to read a thread with the Daily Mail brigade keyboard thumping.

 

Personally I think Duckhunter speaks the most sense on this thread.

[SuperMikey]

Always amusing to read a thread with the Daily Mail brigade keyboard thumping.

 

Personally I think Duckhunter speaks the most sense on this thread.

 

Surprisingly I agree with you actually. Don't usually agree with Duckhunter, but seems to have nailed it this time.

[pap]

Surprisingly I agree with you actually. Don't usually agree with Duckhunter, but seems to have nailed it this time.

 

I like Lord D because he expresses his own opinions in favour of regurgitating Paul Dacre's thoughts.

[Whitey Grandad]

If the toy came first and the word "wog" derived from golliwog then the word "wog" is wrong, just as ****** or paki is wrong. But can't see that that is any fault of existence of the toy.

 

The word 'wog' is not derived from the toy. That was in the article quoted above.

 

If Pakistan is ok then how can Paki be wrong? How about these others: Frog, Kraut, Mick, Spic, Yank, Itie, Aussie, Kiwi, Eskimo, Lapp, Ivan, Hun, Newfie...

[pap]

The word 'wog' is not derived from the toy. That was in the article quoted above.

 

If Pakistan is ok then how can Paki be wrong? How about these others: Frog, Kraut, Mick, Spic, Yank, Itie, Aussie, Kiwi, Eskimo, Lapp, Ivan, Hun, Newfie...

 

Paki is offensive for all sorts of reasons, chiefly in the correct identification of Pakistanis, so you get the grim spectacle of an ignorant white person calling an Indian or Sri Lankan a "Paki".

 

Do you think it acceptable to refer to a newsagent run by Asians as a Paki Shop?

[John Boy Saint]

I will assume you are white. You have made a massive generalisation there. I'm white, my wife is black - we have a gollywog stuck on our fridge and think nothing of it.

 

Get a grip man.

 

Oh **** I have a gollywog on my fridge. Come and take my two mixed race children off me now!!!!!!!

 

I bet the people who complained were white on behalf of non whote people who really couldnt give a sh1t either way about gollywogs!!

 

I have customers (I even know the folks referred to in the op link) who sell and have sold the Robertson Jam Golliwog Character themed products in their shops, Tea Towels, Biscuit Tins etc, every single person who has gotten all emotional about the character depicted on product being sold has been white.

 

There was a story a few years back about a shop-owner who had the Golliwog soft toys for sale and a window display, over the course of 18 months I believe he was arrested twice following complaints about him selling the toys. He drank in the same pub as the local Police Chief and they were on friendly terms, after the second arrest they were both in the pub and the shop-owner requested that he got a bit of notice the next time they were going to arrest him as everytime he had been arrested, and it had made the news, he had sold out of all his Golliwog stock: and it would be nice to get a bit more stock in before the next time.

[Viking Warrior]

Diversity training can be a helpful tool and equally it cab be very divisive . When I was working for a health authority in London I was told that diversity training was to take place immediately by the two job share chief exec who had been parachuted in from Lambeth . Being the training officer I said fine but the told me who to use and it was mandatory for every member of staff . Their trainers started each session by saying that every white person in the room was racist and they were here to change white attitudes . This was to a multicultural workforce who got on well with each other . Those that were most offended were non white colleagues many were in tears and when they told the trainers they were wrong one of the trainers said they were wrongit was because you had been indoctrinated by white ideologies . That training only last three sessions but it showed how out of touch the job share ce's were. Before that these two women went round the organisation with me to make sure no males had pinup girls pictures . Apart from the odd football team and pictures of family no male had any such pictures meanwhile there were a number of women who had pictures of the chippendales up and a few penis shaped paper weights on their desks .

 

Back to the Golliwog post many will think it is offensive others will remember it as a logo for Robinson s jams . Don't forget we cannot have black boards any more but it's okay to have white boards . Common sense needs to prevail but too many folk are to quick to jump on the bandwagon notably the politically correct . I will speak about transgender in another post following a discussion at work yesterday.

[hypochondriac]

Lol. No one has banned blackboards.

[Griffo]

You're making out like adaptation to the host culture isn't happening. By and large, it is. Most people who have moved from another country to live here have had to make huge adjustments to their own lives.

 

There has been a black community in this country for over three hundred years. Granted, the fifties broadened that community massively, but even then, when do the descendants of those immigrants need to stop adapting? How many generations do you think is appropriate before we finally say "fair enough, you're a Brit, people will have to adapt to you too"?

 

Immigration is a two-way street. To do as you suggest, you have to assume that their is some kind of cultural norm that immigrants to ascribe to. As we've seen on the Nationalism thread, just identifying ourselves is enough of a problem. What do we hold up as the normal standard that immigrants should adhere to? You must have some idea of the "core of Britishness" that immigrants should adopt, but I certainly don't, and wouldn't know where to start if I tried.

 

Finally, let's divorce ourselves from the notion that golly is an innocent character. I can accept that as children, people will have thought that. As adults living in a more enlightened age and a much more nuanced understanding of race relations, doesn't wash as well. Your childhood memories can stay as they are. The discussion is whether golliwog is an acceptable toy or term to use in 2013. Personally, I'm happier with the more authentic representation of black people that I live and work with. Golly has had its time.

 

You're a very strange person. You love being offended on other people's behalf don't you?

 

every single person who has gotten all emotional about the character depicted on product being sold has been white.

 

That doesn't surprise me at all.

[View From The Top]

Diversity training can be a helpful tool and equally it cab be very divisive . When I was working for a health authority in London I was told that diversity training was to take place immediately by the two job share chief exec who had been parachuted in from Lambeth . Being the training officer I said fine but the told me who to use and it was mandatory for every member of staff . Their trainers started each session by saying that every white person in the room was racist and they were here to change white attitudes . This was to a multicultural workforce who got on well with each other . Those that were most offended were non white colleagues many were in tears and when they told the trainers they were wrong one of the trainers said they were wrongit was because you had been indoctrinated by white ideologies . That training only last three sessions but it showed how out of touch the job share ce's were. Before that these two women went round the organisation with me to make sure no males had pinup girls pictures . Apart from the odd football team and pictures of family no male had any such pictures meanwhile there were a number of women who had pictures of the chippendales up and a few penis shaped paper weights on their desks .

 

Back to the Golliwog post many will think it is offensive others will remember it as a logo for Robinson s jams . Don't forget we cannot have black boards any more but it's okay to have white boards . Common sense needs to prevail but too many folk are to quick to jump on the bandwagon notably the politically correct . I will speak about transgender in another post following a discussion at work yesterday.

 

Have you been puffing on a crack pipe?

[Viking Warrior]

The point I was making is you cannot refer to them as blackboards . I will dig out the PC advice on these . But a memorandum did go out a couple of years ago about using that terminology . Most modern schools have wipe boards or these electronic boards . So sorry guys for not being concise re black boards

[Viking Warrior]

I believe the boards should be referred to chalkboards now . I believe that some local authorities thought the use of the word black board gave negative connotations against ethnic communities .

 

Some years ago John Denham got chastised for using the words nitty gritty

From some of the PC brigade because it had a link to slavery .

[pap]

You're a very strange person.

 

Thank you. I find it keeps things interesting.

 

You love being offended on other people's behalf don't you?

 

Nah, not really, but I've often remarked that politeness is one of the best British traits. A big part of politeness is respecting the views of others. If you're ignorant of such views, how can you respect them?

[hypochondriac]

I believe the boards should be referred to chalkboards now . I believe that some local authorities thought the use of the word black board gave negative connotations against ethnic communities .

 

Some years ago John Denham got chastised for using the words nitty gritty

From some of the PC brigade because it had a link to slavery .

 

WHich local authorities?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Thank you. I find it keeps things interesting.

 

 

 

Nah, not really, but I've often remarked that politeness is one of the best British traits. A big part of politeness is respecting the views of others. If you're ignorant of such views, how can you respect them?

 

Politeness is a wonderful British trait. What is not is the trend for people to report other people to 'the authorities' for trivialities and these authorities to have closed courts which then send people on re-education courses. It is intolerant and typical of the new institutionalised thinking. Four legs good two legs bad. Four legs good two legs bad.

[solentstars]

Always amusing to read a thread with the Daily Mail brigade keyboard thumping.

 

Personally I think Duckhunter speaks the most sense on this thread.

agree and its the usual suspects spouting there usual hate agendas.the worlds moved on but some of them still think we live in the 1950s.

[Whitey Grandad]

agree and its the usual suspects spouting there usual hate agendas.the worlds moved on but some of them still think we live in the 1950s.

 

It was a better world then. At least the grammar was better.

[aintforever]

If the dozy old bint can't see what is racist about the Gollywog I think that, given that she is a councillor, it makes perfect sense for her to have diversity training.

[Barry Sanchez]

 

This looks like you Pap, right on sister.

[buctootim]

I believe the boards should be referred to chalkboards now . I believe that some local authorities thought the use of the word black board gave negative

 

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/50021076/

https://www.chalkboardsuk.co.uk/buy/pubsvenuesandentertainment/unframed-boards/wc471g-blackboard-insert-1mm/

http://uki.blackboard.com/sites/international/globalmaster/

Edited 21 December, 2013 by buctootim

[Viking Warrior]

Backtootim yes the word is still used and it's okay to use in the us . But the extreme PC still sow the seeds of doubt re certain I phrases or words we innocently use .

 

The problem with political correctness is that it is purely subjective. What I take offence to, might not necessarily offend somebody else. Therefore, how do we realistically define what is politically correct or incorrect?

 

Whilst I believe that people should be aware of different cultures, societies and health issues, we need to refuse to conform to the exaggerated speech codes that are imposed upon us in order to stop it. If political correctness is allowed to perpetuate, it will curb our right to free speech.

 

DAISY PHELAN, English Language undergraduate, University of Chester, UK

Edited 21 December, 2013 by Viking Warrior

[Whitey Grandad]

If the dozy old bint can't see what is racist about the Gollywog I think that, given that she is a councillor, it makes perfect sense for her to have diversity training.

 

She's a councillor, an elected representative of the people, not an employee. She can think whatever she likes.

[Viking Warrior]

I just realised that it was a Tory councillor but the labour lot are so squeaky clean and politically correct they would never make such comments . This thread is not what this woman said but more about her political leanings

[Wes Tender]

If the dozy old bint can't see what is racist about the Gollywog I think that, given that she is a councillor, it makes perfect sense for her to have diversity training.

As far as I understand it, she expressed nostalgia for a toy doll that was popular among children when she was a youngster and the whole thing has been blown out of all proportion by the PC brigade, supported by over-sensitive and small-minded individuals like you and solentstars. There is a parallel with the popularity of the Black and White Minstrel show, which had viewing figures in the millions each week and no doubt there is a substantial element of senior citizens who feel nostalgic about that programme too. That doesn't make them racists either.It seems to me that you two are the dozy ones, because you are unable to understand that people who lived in different eras have different views on many things that have been shaped by the prevailing ideals and morality of the day. In fact the irony seems to have escaped you that your opinion of her is ageist and generalistic when you make a connection that because she is old that perhaps she might not have possession of all of her marbles. As for the diversity training, you two can be added to Pap as among those who feel that there is validity in the interference in the political process by non-elected Council Officers acting beyond the compass of their jurisdiction. If they wish to indoctrinate their own staff, fine. But Councillors are not employees of the Councils they represent and as I said before, she should tell them to go to hell.

[Viking Warrior]

What has also not be mentioned is that all councillors are to have this diversity training not just get .

[Viking Warrior]

Discussing the ‘Golliwog’ image on Robertson’s jam is “inherently racist” as the term is so offensive, a judge ruled.

Lord Justice Floyd, sitting in the Court of Appeal, said that saying the term in front of a black person, whatever the context, was “offensive", as he upheld a ruling that chef who discussed the image was guilty of racial harassment.

Mark McAleese, a chef at London School of Economics, used the term while he discussed food labelling in the presence of his black colleague Denise Lindsay. An employment tribunal found him guilty of harassment and three judges at the Court of Appeal upheld the finding.

Lord Justice Floyd said: “His failure to be truthful about the fact that he had used the term at all, coupled with his own subjective view that any use of the term in the presence of a black person would be offensive, formed an adequate evidential basis for the tribunal's finding that the words had been used by him on the grounds of race."

Mr McAleese had swiftly apologised to his co-worker after the January 2009 incident and had not intended to violate Miss Lindsay's dignity or to "create an intimidating, hostile, degrading or offensive environment for her

Miss Lindsay lodged a formal grievance five months later.

Mr McAleese's account was that he and Miss Lindsay had their backs turned to eachother as they innocently discussed food and packaging. After chatting about Walker's crisps, he said the conversation turned to Robertson's jam and the fact that its label had changed.

Daniel Matovu, for Miss Lindsay, earlier told the court: "White people don't get called golliwogs. The word is an overtly racial comment.

”Golliwog cannot be interpreted in any other way. What the authorities make clear is that, when something is inherently discriminatory and clearly has racial overtones, there is no further debate.”

And Lord Justice Floyd agreed that the word 'golliwog' was "obviously racist and offensive" if used in the presence of a black person.

The real issue in the case, he said, was "why did Mr McAleese say what he did? Was it because he knew he had used the word on the grounds of her race, but dressed it up as innocent chat? Or was it for some other reason?"

Mr McAleese recognised that the term would be 'down right offensive' if aimed at a black person and the judge said he had 'not been truthful' in repeatedly denying, including before the tribunal, that he had said the word.

Lord Justice Floyd, sitting with Lords Justice Moore-Bick and Christopher Clarke, upheld the tribunal's finding that the 'the most likely explanation was that Mr McAleese had used the word because of Miss Lindsay's race'.

But the Court of Appeal’s decision may give little comfort to Miss Lindsay who was told she had lodged her complaint too late and that it would not be 'just and equitable' to allow her to continue with her compensation claim against the LSE.

Shaen Catherwood, for LSE, insisted that Mr McAleese's use of the word - spoken quietly and quickly - did not come anywhere close to racial harassment.

"I say it is unsatisfactory that somebody should be labelled with a finding of harassment on racial grounds when the actual context in which the word was used was innocent and inoffensive," he told the court.

The Appeal Court judges dismissed Miss Lindsay's challenge to the dismissal of her case on grounds of delay. Her other claims of race discrimination had earlier been rejected by the tribunal, although she still has a victimisation claim against the LSE extant.

Edited 21 December, 2013 by Viking Warrior

[Frank's cousin]

The point I was making is you cannot refer to them as blackboards . I will dig out the PC advice on these . But a memorandum did go out a couple of years ago about using that terminology . Most modern schools have wipe boards or these electronic boards . So sorry guys for not being concise re black boards

 

First up a couple of popularly held ignorant myths:

 

1. Pornography is offensive to women-WRONG some women find pornography offensive

 

2. Golliwog is offensive to black people -WRONG, some black people find the term offensive

 

there is a difference and it's an important one.

 

the fact is that there are people who find certain things offensive, and it's not for you or I to tell folk what they should or should not be offended by. In an educated, mature , grown up, civilised society, it's POLIITE to avoid causing offence where there is a chance that some might be taken. Taking the selfish route, no matter how 'insignificant' some think a term is , is just plain and simply ignorant.

 

naturally there are plenty in this country as this thread proves who are struggling with this simple concept, are ignorant and still feel it's their right to behave as they see fit. That is sadly a lack of education, or for those in a certain generation a legacy of when such things were 'acceptable' - a less educated time, based on less understanding.

 

Sadly there are some who don't want to be educated, or advance themselves culturally. For such folk help is at hand as the media kindly provided them with a useful term to justify their mind set.... Political correctness - a hideous piece of made up crap. There is no such thing. A decent educated and mature society, will not wait, for everyone to be educated before offence caused by ignorance is stopped. It will implement legislation, and education to try and speed up the process so that those who might take offence are not exposed to it. If nothing else it's good manners... For the Daily Mail set, it's PC gone mad... Make your choice

 

Why? Because it has become a political football.... When it should be nothing to do with your politic. The right wing press use this PC stick at every opportunity and even make up rubbish such as councils banning 'baba black sheep' (the Sun later admitted they had made this up) ....

 

I am not offended easily, but that does not mean I am happy to go round using terms that someone within earshot might... It's just being polite. Sadly there still seem too many happy to remain ignorant on equally petty cultural and nationalistic stances...