Is London sucking the life out of the UK?

[pap]

The most read article on the Beeb's website at the moment poses this very question, largely on account of recent comments by Vince Cable.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25444981

 

This isn't a new question. The linked article has a seven-minute video on this very topic, produced long before Cable's remarks. Some interesting evidence showing how London is prioritised here; both Manchester and Birmingham have better links to London than they do to other cities, including each other. The point is also made that London's focus tends to be the country's focus - would manufacturing be more venerated if the capital was in the West Midlands, for example.

 

Is London's success built at the expense of provincial towns and cities? If so, what can be done about it? Is more decentralisation the answer, or should we be thinking of something more radical, such as changing our capital?

[toofarnorth]

I hope not. I've just moved to the North West.

 

I do however think with HS2 planned that will reduce journey times to the capital, expansion at Airports such as Birmingham and Manchester should be looked at more closely. I know they are not hub airports, but lots of people from the North seem to needlessly travel to Heathrow for long haul flights when more could and should be flying from northern airports.

 

Many people have said that HS2 should be shelved and better West -East links established, but it's not easy because of the Pennines. Would definitely help though if these links can be improved.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

I think it does. There is always a chicken and egg side to things but I hardly think it is a coincidence that our manufacturing base has been shrinking for decades at the same time that "the City" has become ever bigger. We have a short term approach to business in this country that focuses upon quick cash and profits rather than long term investment and I think this is driven by the City. In the UK our financial sector, our politicians, our civil services, our national media, our major companies, our main airports are all based in London.

 

With regards to HS2 I fear that this will have a contrary impact to that hoped for by Northern politicians. If HS2 makes it quicker and easier for people to get to the North it obviously also makes it quicker and easier to get to London. Businesses could figure that locating head offices in London becomes therefore more attractive.

Edited 19 December, 2013 by anothersaintinsouthsea

[buctootim]

Britain is much more focussed on its capital than most other countries. Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg are all genuine rivals to Berlin and have their own power bases (finance, engineering and shipping). In the US New York, Los Angeles and Chicago easily outweigh Washington DC.

 

We should move the political capital to Chipping Norton and free up the rest of the country to return to a healthier balance.

[bridge too far]

Britain is much more focussed on its capital than most other countries. Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg are all genuine rivals to Berlin and have their own power bases (finance, engineering and shipping). In the US New York, Los Angeles and Chicago easily outweigh Washington DC.

 

We should move the political capital to Chipping Norton and free up the rest of the country to return to a healthier balanc'se.

 

That would save on 'Call me Dave's' travel expenses for a start.

[trousers]

our manufacturing base has been shrinking for decades

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/22/manufacturing_figures/

 

[Halo Stickman]

One of the factors behind London’s dominance is an historical one.

 

If we go back to 1770, a pre-industrial time (i.e. before the immergence of the industrial northern towns), the population of London was approaching 700,000 – about an eighth of England’s entire population. The next largest town was Norwich with 30,000, and only Bristol, Exeter (probably), York, Newcastle, Colchester and Yarmouth topped 10,000.*

 

This huge disparity between a nation’s capital and provincial towns / cities was much larger than that found in most other countries around the globe at that time.

 

* re. English Society in the 18th Century by Roy Porter

[moonraker]

It’s a very simplistic approach, London is so much bigger than any other UK city. The examples of Germany (5x bigger than UK) and the US refer to much larger countries with a federal constitution neither of which were fully unified until the Mid 19. As federations there regional cities have greater political significance. The Capitals of Germany and the US and a number of other countries are essentially only political centres built or developed with one purpose. London grew and developed as the political and commercial centre of England due to its strategic position not because it is in the South.

London has always been a mixed economy, manufacturing, trading, finance, retail, tourism etc. Many other UK cities were built on single or a limited number of industries hence many football clubs nicknames: The Hatters, The Blades, The Glovers and have struggled to attract new industries once these went into decline: Hats and Gloves are no longer being standard dress for the gent about town, or where the manufacturing process could be undertaken more cost effectively elsewhere (not just a labour issue). London’s mixed economy ensured it was more resilient despite the demise of one of its biggest industries The Port of London and its associated industries. Of course its position as the seat of Government works in its favour but I do not support the view that it is a political manufactured position it is commercially driven.

[tpbury]

Germany 5x bigger than UK - really?

http://overlapmaps.com/index.php

 

Country Population density (km2) Population

United Kingdom 255.6 243,610 62,262,000

Germany 233 357,021 81,799,600

 

In any case, an interesting discussion, UK is maybe more centralised, but UK regions are similar to other European and worldwide regions in identifying with the region before the country.

 

(PS perhaps you meant US 5x bigger than UK which sounds about right, population wise)

[buctootim]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/22/manufacturing_figures/

 

 

 

But as a proportion of GDP it is falling. It not necessarily a criticism of the UK, its a trends of affluence

 

 

Edited 19 December, 2013 by buctootim

[Whitey Grandad]

I have long held the same view. Londoners have a very blinkered view of the country and if it's not happening there then it doesn't count. Anything else is 'provincial'. What they overlook is how much London is supported by the surrounding counties in terms of social support. A large number of the people who work there commute from outside and all their housing, educational, medical needs are provided locally.

[TopGun]

I hope not. I've just moved to the North West.

 

I do however think with HS2 planned that will reduce journey times to the capital, expansion at Airports such as Birmingham and Manchester should be looked at more closely. I know they are not hub airports, but lots of people from the North seem to needlessly travel to Heathrow for long haul flights when more could and should be flying from northern airports.

 

Many people have said that HS2 should be shelved and better West -East links established, but it's not easy because of the Pennines. Would definitely help though if these links can be improved.

 

As a Manchester resident I believe HS2 is essential and we neeed to get on with it. We're messing about with nimby objectors who are scaring others in communities and then intend to build about 400 miles of new track by 2033. The Chinese have built nearly 20,000km of dedicated high speed track in the last five years and it is operational!

 

On the east-west point in the north, the Pennines is an issue but there are disused railway tunnels that connect Lancashire with Yorkshire such as the Woodhead tunnel. These could be re-opened to increase rail capacity as the M62 motorway is at bursting point in morning and evening rush hours.

Edited 19 December, 2013 by TopGun

[badgerx16]

Many people have said that HS2 should be shelved and better West -East links established, but it's not easy because of the Pennines. Would definitely help though if these links can be improved.

Are the Alps a problem for France, Italy, Austria, and Switzerland.

 

Opening up better links between Lancashire and the dark side would help bring some light into the lives of the afflicted, ( Yorkshiremen )

[TopGun]

A few years ago I was in London and needed to get back to Manchester but there were big rail problems because of electrical supply issues. The receptionist at the company I was visiting was asked to find me the best available route back to Manchester or, failing that, a train to somewhere up north with a connection to Manchester.

 

She came back, pleased as punch, to tell me that she had found me a train to Watford!

Edited 19 December, 2013 by TopGun

[moonraker]

Germany 5x bigger than UK - really?

http://overlapmaps.com/index.php

 

Country Population density (km2) Population

United Kingdom 255.6 243,610 62,262,000

Germany 233 357,021 81,799,600

 

In any case, an interesting discussion, UK is maybe more centralised, but UK regions are similar to other European and worldwide regions in identifying with the region before the country.

 

(PS perhaps you meant US 5x bigger than UK which sounds about right, population wise)

 

Appologies I was not refering to population but geographical area, and I was wrong Germany is 1.5 times bigger but the US is 40 times bigger. The point I was trying to make is that we in the UK espeicially England are very parochial yet our distanes are small, tiny even compared to most other developed nations and hence having a single predominant city is no surprise. You are right it is an interesting discussion.

[buctootim]

Appologies I was not refering to population but geographical area, and I was wrong Germany is 1.5 times bigger but the US is 40 times bigger. The point I was trying to make is that we in the UK espeicially England are very parochial yet our distanes are small, tiny even compared to most other developed nations and hence having a single predominant city is no surprise. You are right it is an interesting discussion.

 

The UK is less densely populated than the Netherlands - whose capital is the Hague and has vibrant cities in not just Amsterdam but Rotterdam, Utrecht, Eindhoven, Leiden etc.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/22/manufacturing_figures/

 

 

...as a proportion of our economy (obviously)

[swannymere]

It really doesn't matter what the UK thinks, the rest of the world barely know Manchester, Birmingham or Leeds.

[trousers]

...as a proportion of our economy (obviously)

 

So, because other parts of the economy are doing even better that means "manufacturing is in decline"? It's not "in decline" it's simply not growing as much as other sectors, surely?

 

I suppose there are positive and negative ways of looking at everything depending on what picture one wants to paint...

[badgerx16]

It really doesn't matter what the UK thinks, the rest of the world barely know Manchester, Birmingham or Leeds.

 

And there is always the perception many Americans seem to hold of Scotland being a district of England.

[tpbury]

The UK is less densely populated than the Netherlands - whose capital is the Hague and has vibrant cities in not just Amsterdam but Rotterdam, Utrecht, Eindhoven, Leiden etc.

 

Interesting as this wiki article has Netherlands 23 places above United Kingdom in the population density stakes.

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

 

 

Historically, Netherlands is small, but with a 'busy' lifestyle, but those cities you mentioned are still quite big, with the exception of Leiden maybe. If we excised Scotland from UK, we would have an even denser population, though possibly not, in the geographically proximate view. (sorry, couldn't help unrequired jibe!)

Edited 19 December, 2013 by tpbury
punctuation is everything, and I am excited about being able to edit posts

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

So, because other parts of the economy are doing even better that means "manufacturing is in decline"? It's not "in decline" it's simply not growing as much as other sectors, surely?

 

I suppose there are positive and negative ways of looking at everything depending on what picture one wants to paint...

 

One key to a successful economy is a balance across sectors to help you ride out economic shocks and how more consistent and sustainable growth. An advantage of having a sizeable manufacturing sector is that the opportunities for productivity improvements are much greater - you can increase the output of a manufacturing business dramatically through new and better technologies - whereas with Service industries the scope is much lower. Manufacturing is also wealth generating in a way that most service businesses cannot be as well as providing well paid skilled jobs even towards the lower end of a business's workforce. The UK is becoming ever more service dominated and as such future growth is being limited and we're moving towards a largely two tier economy of very well paid professional jobs at one end and very poorly paid manual jobs at the other with little in between.

[trousers]

One key to a successful economy is a balance across sectors to help you ride out economic shocks and how more consistent and sustainable growth. An advantage of having a sizeable manufacturing sector is that the opportunities for productivity improvements are much greater - you can increase the output of a manufacturing business dramatically through new and better technologies - whereas with Service industries the scope is much lower. Manufacturing is also wealth generating in a way that most service businesses cannot be as well as providing well paid skilled jobs even towards the lower end of a business's workforce. The UK is becoming ever more service dominated and as such future growth is being limited and we're moving towards a largely two tier economy of very well paid professional jobs at one end and very poorly paid manual jobs at the other with little in between.

 

Fair enough but I still wouldn't use the word "decline" to describe manufacturing in this country over the last few decades. All semantics I guess.

[Verbal]

Is London's success built at the expense of provincial towns and cities? If so, what can be done about it? Is more decentralisation the answer, or should we be thinking of something more radical, such as changing our capital?

 

Nothing in the article or Stephanie Flanders' report suggests anything of the sort. This sounds like typical special pleading from serial scrounging provincials, trying to explain away London's massive subsidisation of provincial Britain as some kind of fake colonialism. As Flanders says, the problem isn't London, its central government. London has not disempowered provincial cities like Liverpool or Manchester - it's just got on with being what it has become since the end of WW2, a world city.

 

It's not just x times bigger than other British cities; it is an economic engine of vast proportions, and people who live and work in it have an energy that puts provincials to shame. As someone who lives both in London and the north of England, the contrast in attitudes is stunning. Even the act of getting off the train in London require spinning up to 'London speed', rather than the provincial dawdle. Economic creativity in the capital is vastly superior to anywhere else in Britain. Provincial decline, on the other hand, has followed manufacturing decline - and no one came up with a better idea. London, spectacularly (although not without problems), did.

[Barry Sanchez]

Always said this, take out the banking in London and what do you have?

[Barry Sanchez]

Nothing in the article or Stephanie Flanders' report suggests anything of the sort. This sounds like typical special pleading from serial scrounging provincials, trying to explain away London's massive subsidisation of provincial Britain as some kind of fake colonialism. As Flanders says, the problem isn't London, its central government. London has not disempowered provincial cities like Liverpool or Manchester - it's just got on with being what it has become since the end of WW2, a world city.

 

It's not just x times bigger than other British cities; it is an economic engine of vast proportions, and people who live and work in it have an energy that puts provincials to shame. As someone who lives both in London and the north of England, the contrast in attitudes is stunning. Even the act of getting off the train in London require spinning up to 'London speed', rather than the provincial dawdle. Economic creativity in the capital is vastly superior to anywhere else in Britain. Provincial decline, on the other hand, has followed manufacturing decline - and no one came up with a better idea. London, spectacularly (although not without problems), did.

 

 

What a crock of ****, you imply us in the North are not use to working long hours, as person who has also worked down there there are lazy people as there are superb workers, what a load of absolute crap.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Fair enough but I still wouldn't use the word "decline" to describe manufacturing in this country over the last few decades. All semantics I guess.

 

I would. It's declined in in importance to the UK economy.

[pap]

Is London's success built at the expense of provincial towns and cities? If so, what can be done about it? Is more decentralisation the answer, or should we be thinking of something more radical, such as changing our capital?

 

Nothing in the article or Stephanie Flanders' report suggests anything of the sort. This sounds like typical special pleading from serial scrounging provincials, trying to explain away London's massive subsidisation of provincial Britain as some kind of fake colonialism. As Flanders says, the problem isn't London, its central government.

 

How much can you get wrong in one post?

 

 

What do you feel you added here?

[Barry Sanchez]

Nothing in the article or Stephanie Flanders' report suggests anything of the sort. This sounds like typical special pleading from serial scrounging provincials, trying to explain away London's massive subsidisation of provincial Britain as some kind of fake colonialism. As Flanders says, the problem isn't London, its central government. London has not disempowered provincial cities like Liverpool or Manchester - it's just got on with being what it has become since the end of WW2, a world city.

 

It's not just x times bigger than other British cities; it is an economic engine of vast proportions, and people who live and work in it have an energy that puts provincials to shame. As someone who lives both in London and the north of England, the contrast in attitudes is stunning. Even the act of getting off the train in London require spinning up to 'London speed', rather than the provincial dawdle. Economic creativity in the capital is vastly superior to anywhere else in Britain. Provincial decline, on the other hand, has followed manufacturing decline - and no one came up with a better idea. London, spectacularly (although not without problems), did.

 

 

Become subsidized by the banking sector.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Always said this, take out the banking in London and what do you have?

 

A humungous crash in the property market

[adrian lord]

London is the lifeblood of the nation, finacially and creatively. London's success pays for the regions' subsidies and millions of public sector jobs in the North. Absurd to say it sucks life out of the country. God help the rest if and when London declares independence!

[trousers]

Nothing in the article or Stephanie Flanders' report suggests anything of the sort. This sounds like typical special pleading from serial scrounging provincials, trying to explain away London's massive subsidisation of provincial Britain as some kind of fake colonialism. As Flanders says, the problem isn't London, its central government. London has not disempowered provincial cities like Liverpool or Manchester - it's just got on with being what it has become since the end of WW2, a world city.

 

It's not just x times bigger than other British cities; it is an economic engine of vast proportions, and people who live and work in it have an energy that puts provincials to shame. As someone who lives both in London and the north of England, the contrast in attitudes is stunning. Even the act of getting off the train in London require spinning up to 'London speed', rather than the provincial dawdle. Economic creativity in the capital is vastly superior to anywhere else in Britain. Provincial decline, on the other hand, has followed manufacturing decline - and no one came up with a better idea. London, spectacularly (although not without problems), did.

 

Blimin' heck. Verbal, me and Boris all on the same wavelength....

 

http://www.conservatives.com/News/Speeches/2010/10/Boris_Johnson_Keep_the_UK_motor_going.aspx

 

When you look at a London bus you are looking at seat fabric from Huddersfield and windows from Runcorn and destination blinds from Manchester with bodywork and chassis assembled all over the country, from Falkirk to Guilford to Scarborough to Leeds to Rotherham to Blackburn to Ballymena. And when you look at the Tube railway you see rails that are made in S****horpe where there are 350 jobs and conductor rail from Chard in Somerset where there are 180 jobs, concrete sleepers from Sandiacre in Derbyshire, and 800 people working on signalling at Chippenham in Wiltshire and ballast for railtrack quarried in Yorkshire and stockpiled in Wellingborough, and 60 jobs making timber sleepers at Boston in Lincolnshire, the constituency of my old friend and colleague John Hayes. And I hope that my old chum will join me with all his redoubtable campaigning fire and fight for London transport and I hope we will be joined by the people of Derby where we are making our new air conditioned trains and by the people of Crewe where rail parts are manufactured and by the people of Coventry and Portsmouth and Worthing.

 

What do we have in Worthing? We have the congestion charge correspondence unit and if that body is not popular anywhere else it is popular in Worthing and I hope that every MP and citizen of these towns and cities around Britain will join me in supporting London's transport budgets not just because they produce jobs across the UK but because a London where people can move cheaply and easily across the biggest and greatest city in Europe is indispensable for the success of the whole UK economy.

 

It is not just that London exports £20 billion in tax to the rest of the UK London is responsible for a third of the UK exports of services. There would be no insurance industry in Norwich if it was not for London. There would be no financial services industry in Edinburgh, and great international law and accountancy firms would have no offices in Birmingham if they did not have offices in London. And that is why I will stick up for the city of which I am mayor and that is why I believe it is good for the whole of the UK that we are tackling Labour waste axing pointless schemes, and investing the money in making London an ever more attractive place to live in and to invest.

 

And I say to my friends in Birmingham and Manchester and Leeds and all the other compartments of the train, or the skilift you pick your metaphor, that are powered by the London economy, let's defeat the union militants, let's confound the doomsayers and the gloomadon poppers, let's continue our work of creating the best big city on earth to live in, and let's keep London moving, and let's keep the great London economy motoring for the good of the whole UK.

 

I'm not sure the space time continuum is going to survive this collision of thought waves to be honest...

Edited 19 December, 2013 by trousers

[LainPain]

Always said this, take out the banking in London and what do you have?

 

Still the biggest economic centre in the UK by a distance?

[trousers]

I would. It's declined in in importance to the UK economy.

 

No problem. Differences of opinion are to be applauded rather than scorned.

[pap]

No problem. Differences of opinion are to be applauded rather than scorned.

 

Amen to that, you peasant hunting capitalist pig-dog

[Verbal]

What a crock of ****, you imply us in the North are not use to working long hours, as person who has also worked down there there are lazy people as there are superb workers, what a load of absolute crap.

 

I'm not implying it, I'm saying it. I live in both worlds and the contrast is startling. You can point to busy individuals in northern provincial cities, but as populations, the contrast is between sludgy entropy and creative energy.

[Whitey Grandad]

Become subsidized by the banking sector.

 

It's been the other way round in the last few years.

[Barry Sanchez]

I'm not implying it, I'm saying it. I live in both worlds and the contrast is startling. You can point to busy individuals in northern provincial cities, but as populations, the contrast is between sludgy entropy and creative energy.

 

You have obviously worked with absolute **** then, good and bad everywhere.

[Barry Sanchez]

It's been the other way round in the last few years.

 

Very true, owned by the people, brother lived there for years as an accountant for a few well known bands, he got the London fever and its this and that, sure its glitzy but its not real, ended up hating it and know has a farm in Wellow.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

London is the lifeblood of the nation, finacially and creatively. London's success pays for the regions' subsidies and millions of public sector jobs in the North. Absurd to say it sucks life out of the country. God help the rest if and when London declares independence!

 

Are you including the bail-out of the financial sector in that appraisal? You also don't mention how the scramble by the super-rich to own London property is skewing the housing market in the rest of the country.

[moonraker]

Always said this, take out the banking in London and what do you have?

 

Loads and Loads, this Northern view that London is only banking is tiresome unless you are being literal and only speaking of the square mile. Even that has insurance (which is not banking) tourism, shipping services etc. Other industries that employ significant numbers are ART and culture, professional services including engineering, design and architectural consultancy (knowledge led high value) high end retail. To give an example Heathrow employs 114,000 on airport and as many again off site, whilst there would be a loss of traffic if banking moved offshore there would still be equivalent of the working population a dozen or more northern towns employed, or significantly more than the working population of a city like Liverpool.

[Barry Sanchez]

Loads and Loads, this Northern view that London is only banking is tiresome unless you are being literal and only speaking of the square mile. Even that has insurance (which is not banking) tourism, shipping services etc. Other industries that employ significant numbers are ART and culture, professional services including engineering, design and architectural consultancy (knowledge led high value) high end retail. To give an example Heathrow employs 114,000 on airport and as many again off site, whilst there would be a loss of traffic if banking moved offshore there would still be equivalent of the working population a dozen or more northern towns employed, or significantly more than the working population of a city like Liverpool.

 

 

Because of the high population and the huge monopoly of traffic of Airlines.

[Verbal]

Because of the high population and the huge monopoly of traffic of Airlines.

 

You and pap are showing your usual provincial sludginess with this kind of lazy response. With pap's lack of mental alertness in failing to read beyond a headline, you two should get on like a house on fire.

 

London's economic dominance over the rest of the UK is not down to population size. That would just make it bigger than other cities not immensely richer.

 

I tell you what: get on a train, if your provincial salary can take the strain, and come to London. Have a good look around. See what's happening, rather than peddle your provincial hard-done-by stereotypes. You'll be amazed. Just within a mile of where I live, we have two premier league clubs, arguably the best restaurant in London, an architects' practice that is world famous, a leading theatre, cinema and gallery venue, one of the most popular concert venues in London, the wonders of the River Thames, a famous international tennis venue, some of the finest riverside Georgian architecture in Britain...as well as multinationals like Coca Cola and Disney, creative-industry stalwarts like the BBC and HarperCollins, and much, much more. All within a mile. And I live in a quiet part of town.

 

So it's not just about population. But whether you come down here or not, please do feel free to stay in your comfort zone. It's a perfect place for some...

[moonraker]

Because of the high population and the huge monopoly of traffic of Airlines.

 

Provincial airports are cheaper for airlines, hence low cost airlines operating from them, it is passengers who set demand and Heathrow is where huge numbers want to fly from and to. My local airport Bristol tried a US route it failed I am sorry to say.

[Barry Sanchez]

You and pap are showing your usual provincial sludginess with this kind of lazy response. With pap's lack of mental alertness in failing to read beyond a headline, you two should get on like a house on fire.

 

London's economic dominance over the rest of the UK is not down to population size. That would just make it bigger than other cities not immensely richer.

 

I tell you what: get on a train, if your provincial salary can take the strain, and come to London. Have a good look around. See what's happening, rather than peddle your provincial hard-done-by stereotypes. You'll be amazed. Just within a mile of where I live, we have two premier league clubs, arguably the best restaurant in London, an architects' practice that is world famous, a leading theatre, cinema and gallery venue, one of the most popular concert venues in London, the wonders of the River Thames, a famous international tennis venue, some of the finest riverside Georgian architecture in Britain...as well as multinationals like Coca Cola and Disney, creative-industry stalwarts like the BBC and HarperCollins, and much, much more. All within a mile. And I live in a quiet part of town.

 

So it's not just about population. But whether you come down here or not, please do feel free to stay in your comfort zone. It's a perfect place for some...

 

West London is lovely (or parts of it) but that does not stop you being a tit. I have lived (not visted) in London and lived in major Cities around the place, how much left have you got to go until you clear your mortgage? 232433 years?

Edited 19 December, 2013 by Barry Sanchez

[Barry Sanchez]

Provincial airports are cheaper for airlines, hence low cost airlines operating from them, it is passengers who set demand and Heathrow is where huge numbers want to fly from and to. My local airport Bristol tried a US route it failed I am sorry to say.

 

The premium slots are given to BA, Manchester Airport is booming. 15 Million people live in the South East, they have to fly to/from Heathrow, there is no alternative really is there long haul, **** poor.

[Barry Sanchez]

You and pap are showing your usual provincial sludginess with this kind of lazy response. With pap's lack of mental alertness in failing to read beyond a headline, you two should get on like a house on fire.

 

London's economic dominance over the rest of the UK is not down to population size. That would just make it bigger than other cities not immensely richer.

 

I tell you what: get on a train, if your provincial salary can take the strain, and come to London. Have a good look around. See what's happening, rather than peddle your provincial hard-done-by stereotypes. You'll be amazed. Just within a mile of where I live, we have two premier league clubs, arguably the best restaurant in London, an architects' practice that is world famous, a leading theatre, cinema and gallery venue, one of the most popular concert venues in London, the wonders of the River Thames, a famous international tennis venue, some of the finest riverside Georgian architecture in Britain...as well as multinationals like Coca Cola and Disney, creative-industry stalwarts like the BBC and HarperCollins, and much, much more. All within a mile. And I live in a quiet part of town.

 

So it's not just about population. But whether you come down here or not, please do feel free to stay in your comfort zone. It's a perfect place for some...

 

London obviously pays you **** as you have not parted with a fiver for 4 and a 1/2 years and yet contribute (debatable) an awful lot ya tramp:D

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Loads and Loads, this Northern view that London is only banking is tiresome unless you are being literal and only speaking of the square mile. Even that has insurance (which is not banking) tourism, shipping services etc. Other industries that employ significant numbers are ART and culture, professional services including engineering, design and architectural consultancy (knowledge led high value) high end retail. To give an example Heathrow employs 114,000 on airport and as many again off site, whilst there would be a loss of traffic if banking moved offshore there would still be equivalent of the working population a dozen or more northern towns employed, or significantly more than the working population of a city like Liverpool.

 

This only supports the notion that London is too dominant for the rest of the country.

[shurlock]

You and pap are showing your usual provincial sludginess with this kind of lazy response. With pap's lack of mental alertness in failing to read beyond a headline, you two should get on like a house on fire.

 

London's economic dominance over the rest of the UK is not down to population size. That would just make it bigger than other cities not immensely richer.

 

I tell you what: get on a train, if your provincial salary can take the strain, and come to London. Have a good look around. See what's happening, rather than peddle your provincial hard-done-by stereotypes. You'll be amazed. Just within a mile of where I live, we have two premier league clubs, arguably the best restaurant in London, an architects' practice that is world famous, a leading theatre, cinema and gallery venue, one of the most popular concert venues in London, the wonders of the River Thames, a famous international tennis venue, some of the finest riverside Georgian architecture in Britain...as well as multinationals like Coca Cola and Disney, creative-industry stalwarts like the BBC and HarperCollins, and much, much more. All within a mile. And I live in a quiet part of town.

 

So it's not just about population. But whether you come down here or not, please do feel free to stay in your comfort zone. It's a perfect place for some...

 

So what?

 

London has benefitted from past investments and prioritisation -favouritism if you will- that have allowed it to become an economic magnet, attracting activity that in turn has attracted more activity in a virtuous circle. It's not a coincidence that Harper Collins is near the BBC -to use your examples; but there is no reason why the BBC had to be located in London in the first place.

 

The rich get richer; the strong get stronger - though tell them that circumstance and fortune are responsible and they play dumb.

Edited 19 December, 2013 by shurlock

[moonraker]

Much of London's success is based on its international reputation and attraction, no amount of provincial winging or political action will convince the international commercial community to head for Stoke on Trent, Barnsley, Plymouth or any other provincial city. Personally I have no desire to live in or near London, but having travelled a fair bit it is a truly great city and I always enjoy my regular visits there both business and leisure.