"Southampton hoping to tie down Pochettino to new deal to ward off Spurs interest"

[trousers]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2525712/Southampton-hoping-Mauricio-Pochettino-signs-new-deal-end-Spurs-interest.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

 

Southampton are preparing contract talks with Mauricio Pochettino as they look to nail down the in-demand manager’s long-term future.

 

Edit: apologies, just seen this has already been posted in AVB thread. Ignore and/or delete

Edited 18 December, 2013 by trousers

[Saint_John]

That reporter often gets things wrong where Saints are concerned. Here are some of his "exclusives" :-

 

1/ 6th Nov 2012 he told us that Nigel "was in crunch talks" over his job, with comments like :- "could be gone as early as today" and "inevitable that the ex-S****horpe boss will be axed sooner rather than later" - Nigel was still in charge for 2 more months.

 

He also said that "Swindon manager Paulo Di Canio, Italian like banker Cortese, could be in line for a move up to the Premier League, if Adkins goes and inevitably former Saints and Cheats manager xxxxxx (cannot mention his name) will be linked with any vacancy."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2228682/Nigel-Adkins-Southampton-talks-future.html

 

2/ 1st Jan 2013 He told us that Luke was going to Arsenal for £5M

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2255426/Arsenal-talk-Southampton-Luke-Shaw-transfer.html

 

3/ 9th Jan 2013 He told us that Gross or Di Matteo were going to take over, even though we now know that Pochettino had been watching Saints games for "a while" before he took over.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2259795/Southampton-consider-Christian-Gross-Roberto-Di-Matteo.html

 

4/ 20th Jan 2013 He told us that Pochettino lack of English on the Training ground was a problem getting the message across

He also said "Pochettino could be faced with a torrent of ill-will from the St Mary's crowd during his first game in charge against Everton on Monday."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2265624/Southamptons-new-boss-Mauricio-Pochettino-needs-interpreter-speak-English.html

 

5/ 25th Feb 2013 He told us that Chelsea were "set to land Luke for £10m"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2284192/Chelsea-set-land-10m-Southampton-teenager-Luke-Shaw-replace-Ashley-Cole.html

[farawaysaint]

That reporter often gets things wrong where Saints are concerned. Here are some of his "exclusives" :-

 

1/ 6th Nov 2012 he told us that Nigel "was in crunch talks" over his job, with comments like :- "could be gone as early as today" and "inevitable that the ex-S****horpe boss will be axed sooner rather than later" - Nigel was still in charge for 2 more months.

 

He also said that "Swindon manager Paulo Di Canio, Italian like banker Cortese, could be in line for a move up to the Premier League, if Adkins goes and inevitably former Saints and Cheats manager xxxxxx (cannot mention his name) will be linked with any vacancy."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2228682/Nigel-Adkins-Southampton-talks-future.html

 

2/ 1st Jan 2013 He told us that Luke was going to Arsenal for £5M

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2255426/Arsenal-talk-Southampton-Luke-Shaw-transfer.html

 

3/ 9th Jan 2013 He told us that Gross or Di Matteo were going to take over, even though we now know that Pochettino had been watching Saints games for "a while" before he took over.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2259795/Southampton-consider-Christian-Gross-Roberto-Di-Matteo.html

 

4/ 20th Jan 2013 He told us that Pochettino lack of English on the Training ground was a problem getting the message across

He also said "Pochettino could be faced with a torrent of ill-will from the St Mary's crowd during his first game in charge against Everton on Monday."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2265624/Southamptons-new-boss-Mauricio-Pochettino-needs-interpreter-speak-English.html

 

5/ 25th Feb 2013 He told us that Chelsea were "set to land Luke for £10m"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2284192/Chelsea-set-land-10m-Southampton-teenager-Luke-Shaw-replace-Ashley-Cole.html

 

None of those seem too far off? A lot of speculation but no worse than most journos.

Edited 18 December, 2013 by farawaysaint

[ashleyb5443]

Do you have a black book at home with every news reporters name in?

[Bearsy]

This article asks a pretty fair question bout if ponch is overhype:

 

http://www.football365.com/faves/9078961/F365-Says

[trousers]

This article asks a pretty fair question bout if ponch is overhype:

 

http://www.football365.com/faves/9078961/F365-Says

 

Fair piece

[buctootim]

Refreshing bit of rare objectivity.

[Badger]

This article asks a pretty fair question bout if ponch is overhype:

 

http://www.football365.com/faves/9078961/F365-Says

 

Interesting statistics if true :

 

Nobody is pointing out that Southampton play more long balls than any other Premier League side and have a pass completion rate lower than Fulham.

[OldNick]

This article asks a pretty fair question bout if ponch is overhype:

 

http://www.football365.com/faves/9078961/F365-Says

Sarahs perpective is valid , it is a good time to be a Saints manager, and it is nothing new for a manager at a smaller club to be hyped for jobs.

More long balls than any other club,she proclaims, well we must win a lot of them as we have far more possession than most. If Gerrard hits one its a cross field pass,if we do its a long ball. Statistics are easy to play with, Cardiff have gone on a good run, Palace have a new belief, so it is convenient to compare. We rotate our squad as the season is long and the pressing game can burn players out, so i can understand why he changes the team. i would love to keep the same players in every week, but pragmatism is the order of the day.

As for the foreign signings, nobody has seemed to get that right with Gaston, Osvaldo gives me more hope,Dejan has been superb. Our transfer policy i not just down to MP apparently, and so can he be blamed?

At present the article hits home and could be seized upon, but a few weeks ago it would not have made the press, that is the fickle fate of a football manager

[Saint_clark]

The long ball stat is meaningless as the requirement for a long ball isn't actually that far...also most of those are switching the play from side to side.

The pass completion stat surprises me however, and I'm not sure I'm convinced about that one when you consider we rarely run with the ball (choosing to pass instead) and quite often pass it back and amongst the defence.

But the tone of that article isn't objective or unbiased, it's almost bitter. And if you look at other articles written by her, you'll see she thinks Fellaini fits in perfectly at United and that she's written "spiteful" articles about other clubs in the past : http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A25494744

Edited 19 December, 2013 by Saint_clark

[Colinjb]

The long ball stat is meaningless as the requirement for a long ball isn't actually that far...also most of those are switching the play from side to side.

The pass completion stat surprises me however, and I'm not sure I'm convinced about that one when you consider we rarely run with the ball (choosing to pass instead) and quite often pass it back and amongst the defence.

But the tone of that article isn't objective or unbiased, it's almost bitter. And if you look at other articles written by her, you'll see she thinks Fellaini fits in perfectly at United and that she's written "spiteful" articles about other clubs in the past : http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A25494744

 

The pass completion stats, looking at this it appears as though we are bang average in that respect.

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

 

This does ignore the number of attempted passes, etc but in isolation we do not appear to be anything special.

[There when Franny scored]

This article asks a pretty fair question bout if ponch is overhype:

 

http://www.football365.com/faves/9078961/F365-Says

 

You can interpret statistics however you like to suit the point you are trying to make. We also have the 2nd most possession and are 7th best for short passes. We play an average of 69 long balls per game whereas Chelsea in 10th place play 64 so the range is compact. We are in 10th place for pass completion with 80% which is indeed 1% below Fulham and 6.9% behind Swansea who are the best but are below us on points.

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

[Window Cleaner]

The pass completion stats, looking at this it appears as though we are bang average in that respect.

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

 

This does ignore the number of attempted passes, etc but in isolation we do not appear to be anything special.

 

 

we've got a couple of really average performers when it comes to PSR, Boruc and Lambert being the principal culprits. Nearly half of Boruc's passes go astray and about a third of Lambert's. Other than that we're pretty decent. Now as John Major would say "It's no use living in some dumb disneyland and waving your arms about, these are the facts".

[Sour Mash]

You can interpret statistics however you like to suit the point you are trying to make. We also have the 2nd most possession and are 7th best for short passes. We play an average of 69 long balls per game whereas Chelsea in 10th place play 64 so the range is compact. We are in 10th place for pass completion with 80% which is indeed 1% below Fulham and 6.9% behind Swansea who are the best but are below us on points.

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

You've completely missed the point of the article.

[Saint_clark]

You can interpret statistics however you like to suit the point you are trying to make. We also have the 2nd most possession and are 7th best for short passes. We play an average of 69 long balls per game whereas Chelsea in 10th place play 64 so the range is compact. We are in 10th place for pass completion with 80% which is indeed 1% below Fulham and 6.9% behind Swansea who are the best but are below us on points.

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

 

 

So the point she makes about pass completion is in contradiction to the point about Chelsea using less English players but being more successful (trying to say that it doesn't matter how many we use).

[Saint_clark]

You've completely missed the point of the article.

 

I actually agree with her that managers need longer before you can properly judge them, but she didn't need to make that point in such a cynical, strangely bitter way.

[Sour Mash]

I actually agree with her that managers need longer before you can properly judge them, but she didn't need to make that point in such a cynical, strangely bitter way.

I agree it's a bit of a pointless piece, there is a valid point there, but not really writing an article about. But then, as with a lot of these things that get posted on here, it's not really a proper article, more of a blog, not much different to any posts on here.

[There when Franny scored]

You've completely missed the point of the article.

 

I did understand the point which I suppose can be summarised as MP has received, almost without exception, praise in the media for his style of play, use of young Englishman etc., but a closer analysis belies some of the hype.

 

The point I was making, althouth perhaps tangentially, was that the statistics she herself is using are a little misleading so you might argue that she falls foul of her own message!

[buctootim]

I actually agree with her that managers need longer before you can properly judge them, but she didn't need to make that point in such a cynical, strangely bitter way.

 

 

Its actually very objective. To find something "cynical and strangely bitter" simply because it isn't a relentless puff piece is odd.

Edited 19 December, 2013 by buctootim

[Bearsy]

I agree it's a bit of a pointless piece, there is a valid point there, but not really writing an article about. But then, as with a lot of these things that get posted on here, it's not really a proper article, more of a blog, not much different to any posts on here.

 

that's what happens when you let women write about football

[Bearsy]

The point I was making, althouth perhaps tangentially, was that the statistics she herself is using are a little misleading so you might argue that she falls foul of her own message!

 

She wasn't saying they are necessarily valid criticisms, but that they are sticks the national media would be using to beat ponch with if he managed a club anyone gives a fuck about.

[Matthew Le God]

Interesting statistics if true

 

Nobody is pointing out that Southampton play more long balls than any other Premier League side and have a pass completion rate lower than Fulham.

 

A pass between Fonte and Lovren across the back as they often do counts as a "long ball" even though it is along the floor and not aimless.

 

As for "pass completion rate" that is another stat that can be manipulated to mean whatever you want. Southampton this season have made thousands of passes this season more than Fulham, if Southampton's competition rate for example is 3 per cent below Fulham that still means they have completed a huge amount of passes more than Fulham. In one game this season Southampton completed 611 passes and the opposition only had 104!

Edited 19 December, 2013 by Matthew Le God

[Coxford_lou]

The point I was making, althouth perhaps tangentially, was that the statistics she herself is using are a little misleading so you might argue that she falls foul of her own message!

 

...and I think that was the point she was making. If you want to turn stats against someone, you can easily find a way. Pochettino just isn't under that level of scrutiny...yet.

 

It would have been a better article without the slightly bitter tone.

 

But ultimately, Saints have the perfect setup at the moment, and perfect environment to thrive and experiment (without press/fans criticism/pressure). Mourinho hinted it the other week. Pochettino would be crazy to leave, and I bet he knows it!

[Coxford_lou]

that's what happens when you let women write about football

 

Nice to read a thread with "she" referenced so many times that isn't describing "nuns" !

[rudi7s]

I think this lass can't have watched many of our performances this season, especially the games against Liverpool, United, Arsenal and City. While we only won one of those games the performances were spot on and fully evidenced the impact of MPs identity -which is key here. Taking aside games our squad should really win - this is where we were pitted against the 'big boys' and played true to our style and with purpose/direction - again down to MP's stamp on the team. Yes, whilst there will be some flat 5/10 stuff in there along the way the vast majority of our football under MP is why he is highly rated. Stats aside, we have been refreshing and distinctively different in our style since he took over. Its a process that we should all enjoy, and so should journos alike

[Turkish]

I'm not quite sure why everyone is so desperate to defend any suggestion of us being a long ball team. If that's how we play that's how we play. The quicker you get it forward to less time the ball spends in your half so perhaps our switch to being a long ball side, which would entail the ball spending as little time in our half as possible is part of the reason why we are so good defensively this season. I see it as a good thing rather than desperately trying to skew stats to make out we are something we are not.

[Saint_clark]

Its actually very objective. To find something "cynical and strangely bitter" simply because it isn't a relentless puff piece is odd.

 

Well no, there's criticisms in there veiled as being objective. Stating that we spent £36 million all on foreign players whilst failing to mention it was only actually on 3 is misleading, for a start.

[Turkish]

Well no, there's criticisms in there veiled as being objective. Stating that we spent £36 million all on foreign players whilst failing to mention it was only actually on 3 is misleading, for a start.

 

Not really. Did we or did we not spend £36m on foreign players?

[Turkish]

That article doesn't paint Pochentino in a very good light. A long ball team with a low pass completiion percentage. Spent a fortune on foreign players. Lucky to inhert a decent squad at a good time. Gets away with tactical errors because no one scrutises his decisions. Fair comments or nonsenses?

 

Either way it was written by a woman so what does she know about football?

[Saint Garrett]

We're definitely not a long ball side, but we're more direct now than under Adkins. We mix it up, but also their not long ball hooofs up the pitch. (although when Hooiveld plays they do seem to treble!) There are a lot of balls into the channels or through calls, quite a few balls from Lovren and Fonte into Lallana/Jrod/Lambert/Osvaldo along the ground, and we switch the ball to our full backs a lot who play a long way wide and a long way up the pitch. a ball over 25 yerds counts as a long ball, so when Morgan picks it up from Lovren and pings it across to Shaw/Clyne, that counts as a long ball.

 

I'd prefer us to mix it up anyway - as if teams only play one way, it gets very predictable.

[Saint_clark]

Not really. Did we or did we not spend £36m on foreign players?

 

Sorry, you're right. We're not actually using that many English players and there is a foreign invasion of St Marys right now.

[Saint_clark]

That article doesn't paint Pochentino in a very good light. A long ball team with a low pass completiion percentage. Spent a fortune on foreign players. Lucky to inhert a decent squad at a good time. Gets away with tactical errors because no one scrutises his decisions. Fair comments or nonsenses?

 

Either way it was written by a woman so what does she know about football?

 

All of these, and none of his good points included in the article. Exactly why it is cynical and strangely bitter, as I said before.

[Turkish]

Sorry, you're right. We're not actually using that many English players and there is a foreign invasion of St Marys right now.

 

Just pointing out that that bit is not misleading at all. We did spend £36m on foreign players. The article also says that we have a "fine smattering of English players" in our starting XI but i guess you missed that bit. Funny that.

[Turkish]

We're definitely not a long ball side, but we're more direct now than under Adkins. We mix it up, but also their not long ball hooofs up the pitch. (although when Hooiveld plays they do seem to treble!) There are a lot of balls into the channels or through calls, quite a few balls from Lovren and Fonte into Lallana/Jrod/Lambert/Osvaldo along the ground, and we switch the ball to our full backs a lot who play a long way wide and a long way up the pitch. a ball over 25 yerds counts as a long ball, so when Morgan picks it up from Lovren and pings it across to Shaw/Clyne, that counts as a long ball.

 

I'd prefer us to mix it up anyway - as if teams only play one way, it gets very predictable.

 

When does a long ball team become a team that play hoof ball? WHat is the cross over point?

[Bearsy]

When does a long ball team become a team that play hoof ball? WHat is the cross over point?

 

the M27

[Saint Garrett]

A long ball side (for me) is when a team just launches the ball up to a striker, aerially, generally from a keeper or CB's, if the ball is being played into the strikers feet or cross field, then thats not long ball for me. From the stats that I see, generally the most occurred pass combinations for a long ball side are CB>ST or GK>ST.

[notnowcato]

When does a long ball team become a team that play hoof ball? WHat is the cross over point?

 

Hoof would indicate greater % unsuccessful pass completion... oh feck.

 

Stats for t**ts.

[Turkish]

A long ball side (for me) is when a team just launches the ball up to a striker, aerially, generally from a keeper or CB's, if the ball is being played into the strikers feet or cross field, then thats not long ball for me. From the stats that I see, generally the most occurred pass combinations for a long ball side are CB>ST or GK>ST.

 

SO who plays like that these days?

 

We were told Chelsea played that way against us in the second half at their place, yet i would consider that to be direct football not hoofball.

[OldNick]

She wasn't saying they are necessarily valid criticisms, but that they are sticks the national media would be using to beat ponch with if he managed a club anyone gives a fuck about.

look if you are going to be sensible Bearsy there is no place for you here. You are only allowed on here for the comic effect and looking pretty. Apart from that you have by mistake tripped over a correct assumption.

[shurlock]

SO who plays like that these days?

 

We were told Chelsea played that way against us in the second half at their place, yet i would consider that to be direct football not hoofball.

 

Hoofball= one crude indicator is when you have relatively low possession combined with a high number of long balls.

 

We tend to dominate possession in games -we even edged it at the Emirates IIRC- suggesting we either mix it up (assuming the silly mare's numbers are correct) or we don't lose possession with our long balls which in turn suggests they are controlled not speculative which is the essence of a hoof.

 

Frankly, I don't see much change from Adkins in our willingness to go long - that's not the first place I'd go looking to find difference between the two.

[mikee]

A pass between Fonte and Lovren across the back as they often do counts as a "long ball" even though it is along the floor and not aimless.

 

As for "pass completion rate" that is another stat that can be manipulated to mean whatever you want. Southampton this season have made thousands of passes this season more than Fulham, if Southampton's competition rate for example is 3 per cent below Fulham that still means they have completed a huge amount of passes more than Fulham. In one game this season Southampton completed 611 passes and the opposition only had 104!

 

I feel sorry for the guy that counts them all!

 

Although he probably gets one of those silver clicky things that bouncers use.

[There when Franny scored]

...and I think that was the point she was making. If you want to turn stats against someone, you can easily find a way. Pochettino just isn't under that level of scrutiny...yet.

 

It would have been a better article without the slightly bitter tone.

 

But ultimately, Saints have the perfect setup at the moment, and perfect environment to thrive and experiment (without press/fans criticism/pressure). Mourinho hinted it the other week. Pochettino would be crazy to leave, and I bet he knows it!

 

I think you are right, although the undertone of the article does perhaps convey a slightly acerbic agenda as you say.

 

However, I appreciate that she is saying that the media would perhaps turn these stats against Pochettino if he was at a bigger club, but having looked at the stats more closely I'm not sure that that's accurate. Possibly the preconceived starting point of the article has led her to select statistics that are neither negative nor would be perceived as negative in the media. Hence she is falling foul of her own message because she failed to apply the rigour advocated in her article when assessing performance to her own interpretation of the statistical analysis of Southampton's performance.

 

For example, I don't think the media would pick up on the 80% pass completion rate when Man U and Everton are 83% and Chelsea and Liverpool are 84%. That Fulham have a 1% better completion rate than us is more an indication that Fulham are overachieving in that area relative to their overall performance.

 

The long ball one possibly, but again if you look at the stats more closely the most long balls in home games are played by Chelsea and the most in away games by Swansea.

 

I think if it were any reputable sports journalist they would be critisising the disparity between our home and away performance (as they do with Man City). E.g. pass completion home 83%, away 76%. You could select several others, but for the top teams the difference is much smaller, i.e. they generally maintain performance away from home. We still do not, although we have had more difficult away fixtures.

 

To belatedly conclude, she says "Nobody is pointing out that Southampton play more long balls than any other Premier League side and have a pass completion rate lower than Fulham". I think nobody is pointing that out because nobody sees, or would see if they applied more scrutiny, those stats as particularly negative. If she'd applied the same thoroughness to the selection of statistical indicators that she's demonstrated in assessing MP's performance I don't think she would have selected those stats in the first place.

[Barry Sanchez]

I would have thought with the charisma of Cortese there would be no need for this, after all none of the players are going anywhere in January. #itshappening

[Batman]

I would have thought with the charisma of Cortese there would be no need for this, after all none of the players are going anywhere in January. #itshappening

 

no doubt they will play for free

[trousers]

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/2/9081109/pochettino-no-tottenham-contact

 

Southampton host managerless Spurs in the Barclays Premier League on Sunday, seeking their first win in six games.Saints' Argentinian manager had been widely touted as a potential replacement for Andre Villas-Boas at White Hart Lane.

But the 41-year-old Southampton boss confirmed no-one from Tottenham has been in touch.

Pochettino is happy at Southampton, especially with the backing of chairman Nicola Cortese.

"As a manager what's really important is that the sporting aspect is under my control, in terms of signings," Pochettino said.

"Without my agreement no signings go through, and those two basic things are very important for any manager."

[Coxford_lou]

 

To belatedly conclude, she says "Nobody is pointing out that Southampton play more long balls than any other Premier League side and have a pass completion rate lower than Fulham". I think nobody is pointing that out because nobody sees, or would see if they applied more scrutiny, those stats as particularly negative. If she'd applied the same thoroughness to the selection of statistical indicators that she's demonstrated in assessing MP's performance I don't think she would have selected those stats in the first place.

 

Hey there. Agree with what. I felt similar when I was reading the article without looking into the detail on the stats she pulled out, so thanks for interrogating.

 

But reality is, plenty of journos do write these criticisms without that same rigour you're showing. So just because they don't stand up to scrutiny, doesn't mean they wouldn't be said, or that journos wouldn't be searching for every opportunity to knock us down (if we were Tottenham or Arsenal etc).

 

But basically (anyone notice how Pochettino's translator starts every sentence with this word?) we're in agreement.

[DuncanRG]

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/2/9081109/pochettino-no-tottenham-contact

 

Southampton host managerless Spurs in the Barclays Premier League on Sunday, seeking their first win in six games.Saints' Argentinian manager had been widely touted as a potential replacement for Andre Villas-Boas at White Hart Lane.

 

But the 41-year-old Southampton boss confirmed no-one from Tottenham has been in touch.

 

Pochettino is happy at Southampton, especially with the backing of chairman Nicola Cortese.

 

"As a manager what's really important is that the sporting aspect is under my control, in terms of signings," Pochettino said.

 

"Without my agreement no signings go through, and those two basic things are very important for any manager."

 

Bit of a dig at Spurs, that?

[Matthew Le God]

Bit of a dig at Spurs, that?

 

Not when you see it in context alongside the question asked.