Post Match Reaction: Newcastle United 1-1 SAINTS

[Smirking_Saint]

we scored an absolute cracker. but like what villa did to us.

 

It always amazes me that 4-4-2 means you get overrun in midfield nowadays. How did it work so well for so long if you needed more men in midfield?

 

Because it was the tactic of choice back then, plus the game wasnt as technical. Ive long said that the game is won and lost in midfield and personally would much rather a box to box midfielder arriving late supporting the front man to a front pairing.

[adrian lord]

We should OF won.

 

Oh dear oh dear.

[stknowle]

Oh dear oh dear.

 

Yeah 'should of won' lol

[RonManager]

Yeah 'should of won' lol

 

Shudder Vwern.

 

A small island off the coast of Shetland.

[badgerx16]

The thing with young players is that if you give them a chance they will improve. .

 

But apparently it's different if they are keepers.

[corky morris]

Just arrived home. Good point in the end.

Thought Lovren was mom for me. Morgan & Lallana made the difference second half. Thought Chambers did well too.

Negatives, Gazza worries me & the defence. Osvaldo was shocking. Shaws worst game of the season for me. Got done quite a few times. Jos is simply not good enough. MP got the formation wrong first half.

Rickie had to go so deep in the first half it wasted him.

Would love some pace in the team & for us to leave someone up from corners

[shurlock]

But apparently it's different if they are keepers.

 

Though the learning curve is arguably different with keepers. It takes longer for them to improve -most don't hit their peak till their late 20s/early 30s. Not every club has the luxury to sit and wait for that long.

[Roger]

What the f**k has that got to do with the valid point that we are playing our 3rd choice keeper?

 

Language. Wash you're mouth out. Nothing but he doesn't look good enough. Of course you support him but to say he doesn't look good enough isn't an invoice.

[trousers]

I've just noticed we've got the best defence in the premier league again (joint with Everton)

[Pedro]

Happy clapper. The players are paid well enough. Tough league.

Whatever he is paid, he is 3rd choice and I think only 21, why try and destroy his confidence, I doubt anyone at the club wanted him to be pushed into premiership action yet and yes, i am nervous with him in goal but what options have we got. Like someone else pointed out, Butland isn't doing that well and yet we were prepared (allegedly) to pay several millions for him.

[CanadaSaint]

Language. Wash you're mouth out. Nothing but he doesn't look good enough. Of course you support him but to say he doesn't look good enough isn't an invoice.

 

I hope he'll save some soap for you, Rog:

 

Seriously wtf. Marty had it all vision passing everything. What a stupid comment .

 

I'd be a lot more willing to think about your opinions if you didn't respond to fellow Saints fans who see things differently with words like idiots, mad, clueless, stupid, happy clappers, garbage and rubbish, or invite them to "do one" (all examples from your last two pages of posts).

 

I could have done that when you gave Shaw an 8 today and said he was brilliant, which he certainly wasn't, but I understand that you see things your own unique way.

[suewhistle]

As usual it's the over-the-top reactions that annoy me. We've a sound defence, as the stats prove, playing with a third choice keeper and a depleted midfield away from home against an in form side.

 

Although Gazzanigga doesn't fill me with confidence he's not "a Wessex League keeper" and all the other similar criticisms. He handled the back pass badly, but it was hit hard and with spin and he should probably have taken a touch before trying to boot clear. He came out well for that high ball before the end where he got clattered, but held onto the ball well when he came down hard. Incidentally, why did the ref give a bounce ball seeing as play stopped with the keeper in possession?

 

I thought maybe MP was resting Lallana (and Morgan) and drawing the sting out of Newcastle in the first half, with both those changes perhaps anticipated from the beginning. When you consider Newcastle only scored through two defensive errors - allowing the header and then not clearing - it was nearly a succesful policy.

[channonball]

Oh my god. Gazza is a genuine Wessex league standard keeper. He is fecking appalling.

[Bananaman]

can we not just play without a keeper?? play in a 0-5-2-3-1 formation??

[Roger]

I hope he'll save some soap for you, Rog:

 

 

 

I'd be a lot more willing to think about your opinions if you didn't respond to fellow Saints fans who see things differently with words like idiots, mad, clueless, stupid, happy clappers, garbage and rubbish, or invite them to "do one" (all examples from your last two pages of posts).

 

I could have done that when you gave Shaw an 8 today and said he was brilliant, which he certainly wasn't, but I understand that you see things your own unique way.

 

Not always have the time to post essays so sorry if I have been too blunt. Let's be honest we are doing v well whatever we all think.

[badgerx16]

Oh my god. Gazza is a genuine Wessex league standard keeper.

 

No he isn't,

 

He is fecking appalling.

 

No he isn't.

 

If either of these statements were true, how come we have only conceded 2 goals in the last 2 games, neither of which could be claimed to directly be his fault ?

Edited 15 December, 2013 by badgerx16

[Berkshire Saint]

Just got home. Decent point. Either side could have won it but a draw seemed like a fair result to me. Pretty confident that both sides will finish in the top 10 this season.

 

Still very worried about Gazzaniga in goal but as mentioned above he is 3rd choice so we'll have to make do for now. Lallana made a big difference when he came on. Osvaldo poor away from home again but I thought Lambert had a pretty decent game.

[jupu]

I've just noticed we've got the best defence in the premier league again (joint with Everton)

 

Tis.

 

Are people watching at all the cock-ups the other PL league goalies and defenders do regularly?

[channonball]

I'm not sure why you have chosen to ignore Chelsea and villa? Perhaps it doesn't suit your argument. So i will attempt to answer your questions.

 

The reason we have only let in 2 goals is that he doesn't have a Wessex league standard defence or midfield in front of him! Therefore he hasn't had a lot of shots to save. A good goalkeeper will save/win you points by making a save you wouldn't necessarily expect them to make. Boruc (except for his recent blunder at arsenal) has done this. Gazza hasn't got near any of the goals he has conceded.

 

Did you see his attempted clearance today?

 

Your argument is a bit like saying pulis jnr can't be a bad player because he was given a professional contract by saints.

[offix]

first half was not very good. Second half much better. Which was the half with Osvaldo?

[Smirking_Saint]

can we not just play without a keeper?? play in a 0-5-2-3-1 formation??

 

If I remember my playground rules wasnt this known as Scramble ?

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Pleased with the point but every 'good point' at present is undermined by that home defeat to Villa. Need to make sure we bag the 3 against Spurs, who aren't that good really. Gazza doing a decent enough job, 2 conceded in 2, not bad for a 3rd choice. Not Osvaldo's day today with Poch tactics costing him the second half, but those saying get rid should just have another look at his goal last weekend. Get rid? What?

[badgerx16]

I'm not sure why you have chosen to ignore Chelsea and villa? Perhaps it doesn't suit your argument. So i will attempt to answer your questions.

 

My argument is not affected by the results of those 2 games - he is NOT Wessex League standard, FACT; he is much better than that, though possibly not yet of a level that would make him a #2 in the EPL, but he's only #3 on our squad list. Why the f()ck do so called 'fans' of this club have to turn of him when the fact that he is playing, regardless of what you think of his ability, is not his fault. If it's a mistake to select him, slate the manager.

 

And just to give you the chance - which of the goals in the 2 games you have mentioned are ENTIRELY down to Gazza, and not due to poor defending in front of him ?

[channonball]

 

And just to give you the chance - which of the goals in the 2 games you have mentioned are ENTIRELY down to Gazza, and not due to poor defending in front of him ?

 

I agree with you there, none of the goals were entirely hiss fault because in most cases you could identify a defensive error that led to the shot coming in. E.g. Villa yoshi was culpable for the first and third goals in my opinion. The point is the keeper didn't get near any of them. In fact Gazza didn't make a save from a shot on target until city. Wessex league might be a little harsh! He will slide down the pyramid in a similar fashion to Bart IMHO.

 

He may be 3rd choice! But again your forgetting he wasn't signed as a 3rd choice keeper. He had some appalling performances last season if my memory serves me right.

 

I don't expect him to read the forum! So my berating of him will have little impact to his confidence. I will still clap him at the game! But also be praying a new keeper is signed soon, especially as boric isn't getting younger.

[CanadaSaint]

Did you see his attempted clearance today?

 

We get it, you don't rate the guy and you're unwilling - or unable - to open your mind to the possibility that he will become a good keeper with the experience that makes keepers good.

 

Joe Hart was City's first choice and everyone's England #1 not so long ago, but he's lost ground because he's prone to errors of judgment or technique under pressure.

 

Jack Butland was on most big team wish lists a couple of years ago, but has faded away for now.

 

And let's not forget that Gazza has not let one in from the opposing penalty box or by trying to dribble around a forward - errors for which Boruc has been let off with far less criticism than Gazza is receiving now.

 

Unless you're perfect, you'd better hope that people in your life are willing to cut you more slack than you're willing to cut Gazzaniga.

[Sour Mash]

Nothing wrong with AL,just a MP decision

What was that decision based on do you know? As a general theme at the moment, there seems to be the policy of putting first choice players on the bench that have a knock, but then seem fine to come on and play when needed. Weird.

[Bearsy]

i'm watchng motd now + we need some of oue blick players back qsap we look like hitler youth out there yo! our game was definite the most lols i've rewinded + watch referee get smack in face 6 times! i also like bench fight + g-nigga vs backpass.

[dubai_phil]

i'm watchng motd now + we need some of oue blick players back qsap we look like hitler youth out there yo! our game was definite the most lols i've rewinded + watch referee get smack in face 6 times! i also like bench fight + g-nigga vs backpass.

 

 

^ See TMS Awards - posting when drunk nomination.

 

Thought Gazza looked better today, claimed a good cross from one of their early corners.

There is sod all we can do about the fact we are having to play him so I really cannot understand the perpetual ranting on here. (Unless someone can bung Blatter a few quid to make a rule change so we can sign Casillas for a month)

 

Shaw is starting to show me he needs a rest. Yes he is a superb player and great talent but our style will burn players out and we are now seeing MP rotate the squad as much as he can.

Jos made the Wessex League level mistake. Part of our problem in the first half is that he simply was not as confident on the ball as Lovren and that seemed to spread through the team. Yes he is a decent cover and will stay that way until Turnbull/Stephens or another Academy lad comes through.

 

Annoyed that I had to watch it on Viasat in some obscure language but then when we used to watch down the pub we never hear the commentary anyway.

 

Gave up at HT we were so bad, went to have dinner and was surprised to see we had equalized. The last 15 minutes or so before Ref Dive Gate thought we looked to be tearing them to pieces again.

 

Need a win now though

[Batman]

We get it, you don't rate the guy and you're unwilling - or unable - to open your mind to the possibility that he will become a good keeper with the experience that makes keepers good.

 

Joe Hart was City's first choice and everyone's England #1 not so long ago, but he's lost ground because he's prone to errors of judgment or technique under pressure.

 

Jack Butland was on most big team wish lists a couple of years ago, but has faded away for now.

 

And let's not forget that Gazza has not let one in from the opposing penalty box or by trying to dribble around a forward - errors for which Boruc has been let off with far less criticism than Gazza is receiving now.

 

Unless you're perfect, you'd better hope that people in your life are willing to cut you more slack than you're willing to cut Gazzaniga.

 

simple fact, he is not good enough. since he has been in the side (last season and this) has has been awful. no improvement at all.

apart from 1 very good save against newcastle (last season at home) nothing he has saved has been of note.

 

some of the goals he has let in (or like yesterday, nearly) have been league 2 standard

 

he will never be our 1st choice keeper whilst we are in the premier league

[Batman]

No he isn't,

 

 

 

No he isn't.

 

If either of these statements were true, how come we have only conceded 2 goals in the last 2 games, neither of which could be claimed to directly be his fault ?

he is. some of his time in goal have been utter bizarre.

that clearance yesterday was horrific. let alone when he went walkabout for Ameobi's header.

there were times like that every game he played last season. so hardly (if at all) any improvement.

 

people make mistakes, but he KEEPS making them

[CanadaSaint]

simple fact, he is not good enough. since he has been in the side (last season and this) has has been awful. no improvement at all.

apart from 1 very good save against newcastle (last season at home) nothing he has saved has been of note.

 

some of the goals he has let in (or like yesterday, nearly) have been league 2 standard

 

he will never be our 1st choice keeper whilst we are in the premier league

 

Look, he gives me the ab-dabs as well but I don't agree with all the hysterical crap posted on here about a young keeper (the youngest in the PL by a mile, I think) being forced to play above his current level. I'm willing to keep an open mind about his future because he has much to learn and plenty of time in which to learn it, and I'm not ready to agree that "he will never be our 1st choice keeper whilst we are in the premier league". I think he needs a good goalkeeping coach (which I'm not sure we have because you're right - he hasn't improved) and some extended playing time away from the high-pressure PL (which we haven't been willing or able to arrange.)

 

And if "some of the goals he has let in ... have been league 2 standard" is the criterion for judgment, we might as well boot Boruc, Hart, Davis and most other PL keepers as well. Some of their howlers have been more laughable than any of Gazzaniga's.

 

But this has become a circular debate between the closed-minded and the open-minded, which is really a waste of everyone's time.

[Batman]

Look, he gives me the ab-dabs as well but I don't agree with all the hysterical crap posted on here about a young keeper (the youngest in the PL by a mile, I think) being forced to play above his current level. I'm willing to keep an open mind about his future because he has much to learn and plenty of time in which to learn it, and I'm not ready to agree that "he will never be our 1st choice keeper whilst we are in the premier league". I think he needs a good goalkeeping coach (which I'm not sure we have because you're right - he hasn't improved) and some extended playing time away from the high-pressure PL (which we haven't been willing or able to arrange.)

 

And if "some of the goals he has let in ... have been league 2 standard" is the criterion for judgment, we might as well boot Boruc, Hart, Davis and most other PL keepers as well. Some of their howlers have been more laughable than any of Gazzaniga's.

 

But this has become a circular debate between the closed-minded and the open-minded, which is really a waste of everyone's time.

i am not hysterical about it.

the mistakes he makes time and time again are alarming. these are not 1 off's. they happen ALL then time

 

apart from 1 very good save at home to newcastle last season, nothing he has done has been of note. no game changers, not match winners. nothing.

using another poor keeper in butland as an example is daft. He is also not very good and like many young english players, got hyped up too much

 

boruc has made a couple of mistake (like all players) but he has the ability and has proved it, the skills to win us a game. gazza is far far far from that and to me, has not progressed one bit. The fact we are saying he did well by making saves from 25 years that are straight at him says it all.

 

we are now a top 10 prem club. he is utterly miles from that

[mitch01]

I'm a bigger and bigger fan of Davis every time I see him play. Really underrated him when he first signed, but he is a very neat player indeed. Knows his limitations and plays within them, rarely gives the ball away. That volley would have been unbelievable.

[positivepete]

Wenger on the defeat to Man City....

 

Wenger said. "I do not want to look for excuses after a defeat like that; we made too many mistakes running after the score and should not have conceded six goals, but the game on Wednesday did not help. The situation was not ideal, but what hurts me most is that we missed the chance to go nine points ahead of City. They were not unbeatable. They are one of the teams with a chance, of course, but I would not say they are the best team we have played this season. Everton were as good as Man City, and so were Southampton.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

You can talk Gazzaniga up all you like, doing so may even improve our morale temperately, but the simple truth is we've gone from fielding one of the very best keepers in this division, to one who is almost certainly the worst. Now if you don't agree with that statement then name me a worse keeper who played in the PL yesterday?

 

Yes he's young and only 3rd choice, and yes he might even improve over time I suppose. There again it seems just as likely he may never make the grade at this level. For me I'm just not seeing much strength of character and confidence in your own ability from this player - surely basic requirements needed for anyone to become a success in the game. But those questions remain debatable propositions at this time.

 

What seems more certain however is that with Boruc still weeks away from returning, this team of ours needs Kelvin back desperately.

[speed demon]

simple fact, he is not good enough. since he has been in the side (last season and this) has has been awful. no improvement at all.

apart from 1 very good save against newcastle (last season at home) nothing he has saved has been of note.

 

some of the goals he has let in (or like yesterday, nearly) have been league 2 standard

 

he will never be our 1st choice keeper whilst we are in the premier league

 

This.

 

Got nothing against the lad but as long as he's got a hole in his arse, he won't ever be our first choice keeper.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

We get it, you don't rate the guy and you're unwilling - or unable - to open your mind to the possibility that he will become a good keeper with the experience that makes keepers good.

 

Joe Hart was City's first choice and everyone's England #1 not so long ago, but he's lost ground because he's prone to errors of judgment or technique under pressure.

 

Jack Butland was on most big team wish lists a couple of years ago, but has faded away for now.

 

And let's not forget that Gazza has not let one in from the opposing penalty box or by trying to dribble around a forward - errors for which Boruc has been let off with far less criticism than Gazza is receiving now.

 

Unless you're perfect, you'd better hope that people in your life are willing to cut you more slack than you're willing to cut Gazzaniga.

 

This.

[david in sweden]

Much better second half, JRod was terrific up front

 

Chambers, Shaw, Davis and Lovren really good as well, Newcastle are a decent side

 

Think were at a tipping point now with Osvaldo and SRL as strikers in this team, the movement and mobility we had with Rodriguez in that second half transformed our game and i would start playing him up top from now on. We look slow and ponderous with either of those two up front

 

 

I'd go with these comments 100%.....and if only Steven Davis' volley had been six inches further to the right, we 'd have got all three points.

[badgerx16]

You can talk Gazzaniga up all you like, doing so may even improve our morale temperately, but the simple truth is we've gone from fielding one of the very best keepers in this division, to one who is almost certainly the worst. ....

 

It's not a case of 'talking him up'. He IS temporarily our first choice keeper, if this causes people to suffer fits of apoplexy then they should direct their bile at the manager who has failed to address this apparent weakness in our squad. If you are looking for a 'worse' example in the EPL then logically you need to assess each team's 3rd choice option - I'm not sure I could name any of them, let alone give an informed opinion on their playing ability.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It's not a case of 'talking him up'. He IS temporarily our first choice keeper, if this causes people to suffer fits of apoplexy then they should direct their bile at the manager who has failed to address this apparent weakness in our squad. If you are looking for a 'worse' example in the EPL then logically you need to assess each team's 3rd choice option - I'm not sure I could name any of them, let alone give an informed opinion on their playing ability.

 

In my (unedited) post I was careful to acknowledge his status here. But is football not a squad game these days? Some might say squad players who are incapable of doing a satisfactory job when called upon serve no good purpose.

 

Both this season and last, Gazzaniga reminds me so much of the 'bag of nerves' Bart had become before we got rid of him that the resemblance is uncanny ... it must be something in the water.

 

Now if you want to add to this forum ever growing 'excuse mountain' (AKA Mt Guly) then carry on ... but that won't make any difference however.

[Wade Garrett]

Look, he gives me the ab-dabs as well but I don't agree with all the hysterical crap posted on here about a young keeper (the youngest in the PL by a mile, I think) being forced to play above his current level. I'm willing to keep an open mind about his future because he has much to learn and plenty of time in which to learn it, and I'm not ready to agree that "he will never be our 1st choice keeper whilst we are in the premier league". I think he needs a good goalkeeping coach (which I'm not sure we have because you're right - he hasn't improved) and some extended playing time away from the high-pressure PL (which we haven't been willing or able to arrange.)

 

And if "some of the goals he has let in ... have been league 2 standard" is the criterion for judgment, we might as well boot Boruc, Hart, Davis and most other PL keepers as well. Some of their howlers have been more laughable than any of Gazzaniga's.

 

But this has become a circular debate between the closed-minded and the open-minded, which is really a waste of everyone's time.

 

Closed-minded?

[Patrick Bateman]

Oh my god. Gazza is a genuine Wessex league standard keeper. He is fecking appalling.

 

But he's not is he?

 

He is;

- 21

- Learning

- Our 3rd choice

- Not as good as an International goalie

- Not quite as good as someone with years of experience

 

Adkins shouldn't have played him last season when he was messing around with goalies, but the guy is learning and will be okay I'm sure in years to come.

 

But hey, it's easy to jump on the back of a 21 year old, currently 3rd choice keeper.

[Window Cleaner]

I know Saint Charlie doesn't agree but I'm not convinced that MP rates JWP as much as we do - moved out of midfield and to RB against Arsenal (needlessly IMO), pulled off just after the hour at Chelsea, withdrawn before half time against Villa, and substituted at the break today.

 

I'm hoping it's because the absence of the Schneiderlin/Wanyana duo is making it difficult for JWP to play his game, but MP seems rather quick to give him the hook.

 

Thoughts?

 

Well from my memories of the first half yesterday I'd say that the absence of Schneiderlin makes it difficult for Steve Davis to play his game, seemed to be back helping out JWP all of the tie yesterday; In the second half we looked more assured in the middle allowing SD to get forward and link play which is what he does best. For me (and I could be wrong) JWP isn't strong enough to be left alone in a CM position.

[Huffton]

Right . Gazzaniga was not awful. Nervous yes, awful, no. He made one mistake which was not dealing with a horibble bouncing back pass, apart from that he was actually quite solid. Not saying hes anywhere near ready yet, just trying to put a bit of perspective against the doom merchants

[Badger]

I understand the 'nerves' about Gazzaniga playing in goal, but he has a long way to plummet before he reaches the same standard of sh!t as Bialkowski, and lets not forget Forecast.

 

Gazzaniga or KD is a difficult choice as I see it. Best thing for Gazzaniga's development though is a loan to Championship team for a year,rather than losing all confidence in the Prem, but for the next few weeks he is in the spotlight.

[CWD]

As a 3rd choice keeper Gazza is fine. What he lacks at the moment - composure and authority - are things that come with experience. He isn't PL standard at the moment but I'd like to see a list of 3rd choice goalies who are. He'll improve but he needs a loan once Davis/Boruc are fit.

[Wade Garrett]

As a 3rd choice keeper Gazza is fine. What he lacks at the moment - composure and authority - are things that come with experience. He isn't PL standard at the moment but I'd like to see a list of 3rd choice goalies who are. He'll improve but he needs a loan once Davis/Boruc are fit.

 

I don't think he just lacks composure and authority. I see basic flaws in his technique and poor handling.

 

I'll stop banging on about it for now though, as hopefully a few others will.

[Andy Durman]

If you don't make mistakes you don't learn. The difference with Southampton is we believe in our youngsters. Stop getting on the back of our future stars. Gazza is and will be a fine keeper. Stop looking at the negatives and start looking at the good things he's doing.

[shirleysfc]

I thought we missed Wanyama. As good as Cork was against City he didn't look great yesterday.

[Bearsy]

Gazza is and will be a fine keeper. Stop looking at the negatives and start looking at the good things he's doing.

 

e.g the amputation of his padawan rat tail