Nationalism?

[Barry Sanchez]

post 21:

 

 

 

my bad, you're actually claiming that the English were liberated from the Normans. Just as silly.

 

 

No its not, you could argue once the English (Norman blood makes no difference) took the fight to the French Territories they were liberated and a subjugated Nation was free.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

No its not, you could argue once the English (Norman blood makes no difference) took the fight to the French Territories they were liberated and a subjugated Nation was free.

 

Yeah you could argue that if you really wanted. Would be a load of toss but you could argue that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

National day, not for me. It'll be a ****ing nightmare. Having to listen to that dirge of a national anthem with a load of plums displaying that stupid union flag, and I bet those welfare scrounging Germans we all look up to , will be getting in on the act. The BBC will be dumbing down by interviewing some transgender British Muslim and banging on about how tolerant we are as a nation and how "nobody does pomp and ceremony" like the good old Brits. Load of pony, it would be embarrassing.

 

For such a brash and jingoistic country, surprisingly America has the best national "celebration" a simple thanksgiving , where families, friends and neighbours come together. I would be for something like that, not based on religion or race, but everybody in England (and the taffs and jocks if we have to) give thanks for living in a free and pretty wealthy country in an age of peace and harmony (compared to other ages). Perhaps 11/11, wander down to memorials and parades, quick couple of pints in the local then back home for roast dinner and watch the "memorial day " live sky match.

Edited 13 December, 2013 by Lord Duckhunter

[Barry Sanchez]

Yeah you could argue that if you really wanted. Would be a load of toss but you could argue that.

 

Ok then goodnight Mavis, you have ballsed it up through will an incorrect patronising post so you might as well continue, I would stand back and be quiet though.

[Barry Sanchez]

National day, not for me. It'll be a ****ing nightmare. Having to listen to that dirge of a national anthem with a load of plums displaying that stupid union flag, and I bet those welfare scrounging Germans we all look up to , will be getting in on the act. The BBC will be dumbing down by interviewing some transgender British Muslim and banging on about how tolerant we are as a nation and how "nobody does pomp and ceremony" like the good old Brits. Load of pony, it would be embarrassing.

 

For such a brash and jingoistic country, surprisingly America has the best national "celebration" a simple thanksgiving , where families, friends and neighbours come together. I would be for something like that, not based on religion or race, but everybody in England (and the taffs and jocks if we have to) give thanks for living in a free and pretty wealthy country in an age of peace and harmony (compared to other ages). Perhaps 11/11, wander down to memorials and parades, quick couple of pints in the local then back home for roast dinner and watch the "memorial day " live sky match.

 

It does not have to be a National Day, English Day or anything to do with St George, simply a day we all have off and thank ourselves we live in a free and democratic Country, if others have it why cant we?

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Ok then goodnight Mavis, you have ballsed it up through will an incorrect patronising post so you might as well continue, I would stand back and be quiet though.

 

oooh you called me Mavis, you really are the wit.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It does not have to be a National Day, English Day or anything to do with St George, simply a day we all have off and thank ourselves we live in a free and democratic Country, if others have it why cant we?

 

In the op you mention having a day off on our patron saints day specifically. Now you're posting that it doesn't matter, make your mind up Baz.

[pap]

It does not have to be a National Day, English Day or anything to do with St George, simply a day we all have off and thank ourselves we live in a free and democratic Country, if others have it why cant we?

 

Yeah, it's called "Sunday", mucker.

 

There are about 50 of them every year.

[Ohio Saint]

I'm proud to be English, but I don't have an English flag outside my house or wave one around in the air because, while being a proud Englishman, I don't want to look like an English d!ck. (Even if I am one)

[pap]

oooh you called me Mavis, you really are the wit.

 

I don't think it's fair to knock a man just because you don't own the DeLorean that would enable you to find his quip funny.

[Smirking_Saint]

I can't stop other people from being nationalistic, but I can point out the vicarious nature of taking pride in something you had no part in. It's actually a less defensible position than that of the vicarious parent, who at least can claim to have been an influence in their young charges.

 

The whole country? Nah. I'm very happy to celebrate the achievements of individual Britons, especially those who have helped to make this country what it is today. Can't take any pride in them, though. To quote Bart Simpson, "it was like that when I got here".

 

Sorry Papster, I missed this particular reply. I do understand and thoroughly respect your viewpoint, it does make sense. I am a proud Englishman first and a proud brit second, no I have not done much to help this country be what it is but then Ive done bugger all to help Saints and the national team either but Ill celebrate their achievements just the same.

 

To be honest though I sort of saw where this thread was heading and decided I couldnt be arsed to keep up bud so carry on, nothing to see here.

[Barry Sanchez]

In the op you mention having a day off on our patron saints day specifically. Now you're posting that it doesn't matter, make your mind up Baz.

 

Yes but it does not have to be anything to do with St George per se, a day that aims to unite everyone in England, some may look to St George and others something else BUT there has to be a unifying thing for all.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Yes but it does not have to be anything to do with St George per se, a day that aims to unite everyone in England, some may look to St George and others something else BUT there has to be a unifying thing for all.

 

Basically George had sweet FA to do with England, so I dont really see why we even have a patron saint, load of old pony if you ask me.

 

May 1st is too leftie for me. I'd get rid of it and replace it with a memorial day on 11/11.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Basically George had sweet FA to do with England, so I dont really see why we even have a patron saint, load of old pony if you ask me.

 

May 1st is too leftie for me. I'd get rid of it and replace it with a memorial day on 11/11.

 

Serious question, if in your opinion May 1st is "too leftie" (not saying you are right or wrong), then do you not think an 11/11 Memorial Day is more politically charged?

[Barry Sanchez]

Basically George had sweet FA to do with England, so I dont really see why we even have a patron saint, load of old pony if you ask me.

 

May 1st is too leftie for me. I'd get rid of it and replace it with a memorial day on 11/11.

 

Thats far too divisive and not in the holiday season at all, you are asking for a day of remembrance and we already have that.

[pap]

Sorry Papster, I missed this particular reply. I do understand and thoroughly respect your viewpoint, it does make sense. I am a proud Englishman first and a proud brit second, no I have not done much to help this country be what it is but then Ive done bugger all to help Saints and the national team either but Ill celebrate their achievements just the same.

 

To be honest though I sort of saw where this thread was heading and decided I couldnt be arsed to keep up bud so carry on, nothing to see here.

 

We all pay into the tax system, so there's that. Similarly, I think most Saints fans can say that they are part of the success of the club. We help to fund it, build awareness of it and the EPL through social media channels, and it's really football fandom that underpins the overall enterprise and makes football the thing it is. No fans = no market = no massive TV gravy chain.

 

I'm very a la carte with my Englishness. I love the politeness, humour, sense of fair play - but I dislike the deference, the apathy and the tub-thumping part of the enterprise. I've brought this point up tons before, but Paxman reckons a defining characteristic about being English is being so comfy in your nationality that you don't give a f*ck about it. I'm no different in that respect; I have a quiet confidence about my nationality and as I said, respect for a lot of the things we're supposed to hold dear.

 

Thing is, I'm not entirely sure what we're supposed to celebrate at the moment. The country doesn't seem too unified to me. Our actions, viewed externally, haven't been particularly honourable lately. Our domestic policy and population is directed by the EU. Our foreign policy is directed by the US. The country owes $160K per person atm, and is borrowing more. Nobody seems to have a long-term vision about what the country is going to do to support itself in future.

[Barry Sanchez]

We all pay into the tax system, so there's that. Similarly, I think most Saints fans can say that they are part of the success of the club. We help to fund it, build awareness of it and the EPL through social media channels, and it's really football fandom that underpins the overall enterprise and makes football the thing it is. No fans = no market = no massive TV gravy chain.

 

I'm very a la carte with my Englishness. I love the politeness, humour, sense of fair play - but I dislike the deference, the apathy and the tub-thumping part of the enterprise. I've brought this point up tons before, but Paxman reckons a defining characteristic about being English is being so comfy in your nationality that you don't give a f*ck about it. I'm no different in that respect; I have a quiet confidence about my nationality and as I said, respect for a lot of the things we're supposed to hold dear.

 

Thing is, I'm not entirely sure what we're supposed to celebrate at the moment. The country doesn't seem too unified to me. Our actions, viewed externally, haven't been particularly honourable lately. Our domestic policy and population is directed by the EU. Our foreign policy is directed by the US. The country owes $160K per person atm, and is borrowing more. Nobody seems to have a long-term vision about what the country is going to do to support itself in future.

 

 

Open more call centres and have neets do short term employment with no prospects and sell any public National asset this Nation still has. A general braindrain to the States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand (Nations that celebrate their Nationhood) shall continue.

[View From The Top]

Why have people got a stick up their a**e about May Day holiday? It dates back centuries. You could argue that it's the most traditionally English holiday of them all.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

In the op you mention having a day off on our patron saints day specifically. Now you're posting that it doesn't matter, make your mind up Baz.

 

It's Tris... not Baz.

[PhilippineSaint]

BUT there has to be a unifying thing for all.

 

And that is why we as English dont have one as there is nothing that unifies us all.

 

We cant even go to the next village or town without fighting Saints V Pompey, Macams V Geordies

North of the Watford Gap against those below,

although I prefer England as anything south of Winchester.

[pap]

And that is why we as English dont have one as there is nothing that unifies us all.

 

We cant even go to the next village or town without fighting Saints V Pompey, Macams V Geordies

North of the Watford Gap against those below,

although I prefer England as anything south of Winchester.

 

Yay, someone gets it.

 

Those are some localised examples, but you've also got the whole North/South thing or perhaps more accurately, the whole South East/Everywhere Else thing.

 

Not really that surprising when you've got the likes of the Daily Mail, Britain's least accurate newspaper, devoting a fair amount of its headlines on the denigration of certain sections of society. We're not even considering class differences here either.

[CB Fry]

And that is why we as English dont have one as there is nothing that unifies us all.

 

We cant even go to the next village or town without fighting Saints V Pompey, Macams V Geordies

North of the Watford Gap against those below,

although I prefer England as anything south of Winchester.

 

Yay, someone gets it.

 

Those are some localised examples, but you've also got the whole North/South thing or perhaps more accurately, the whole South East/Everywhere Else thing.

 

Not really that surprising when you've got the likes of the Daily Mail, Britain's least accurate newspaper, devoting a fair amount of its headlines on the denigration of certain sections of society. We're not even considering class differences here either.

 

Whereas people from North and South Wales, people from Swansea and Cardiff, and People from Glasgow and Edinburgh, and heck people in Glasgow all simply love each other.

 

Local/regional/inter-city hatred is not some exclusively English thing. It's a completely universal human experience, from the least developed Pacific tribe to New York City.

 

So yes Pap. "At last Someone gets it". Handily you're both wrong.

[pap]

Whereas people from North and South Wales, people from Swansea and Cardiff, and People from Glasgow and Edinburgh, and heck people in Glasgow all simply love each other.

 

Local/regional/inter-city hatred is not some exclusively English thing. It's a completely universal human experience, from the least developed Pacific tribe to New York City.

 

So yes Pap. "At last Someone gets it". Handily you're both wrong.

 

I must have missed the part where I said tribalism was exclusive to the English.

 

You obviously didn't though. Thanks for spotting it. A big "add" to the debate, I feel.

[norwaysaint]

Plenty of local rivalries over here, but it has no bearing on the national day. In fact, the national dress, or bunad, worn by most Norwegians on 17th may is a regional thing, each area has it's own design, so most Norwegians are effectively in colors all day. It makes no difference on the day though, everyone gets on and celebrates together. Also there are many, many marching bands, all representing a different area and all in competition with each other, but it's a friendly rivalry on the day.

 

Last year I was in the main parade with my kids' school. In front of us was a marching band from Northern Ireland, invited over, behind us was a group of Malaysian women in full national costume. We passed a Scottish pipe band and many international groups, but all along the way the road was lined with huge crowds of people waving flags and cheering everybody. Like somebody said, maybe even Barry, it's not to do with where you're born, it's to do with where we all live together. It's a big community coming together event, a friendly, inclusive nationalism that makes me and most other immigrants feel like part of Norway.

 

I think what makes it unified is the fact that it all revolves around the children too. Nobody on here has really talked about that, too many people thinking it's got something to do with gangs of tattooed skinheads. Norway isn't any kind of perfect utopian society where everyone gets along, but for one day a year we try to be and it helps.

[pap]

Do you have anything like The Daily Mail in Norway though?

[CB Fry]

I must have missed the part where I said tribalism was exclusive to the English.

 

You obviously didn't though. Thanks for spotting it. A big "add" to the debate, I feel.

 

So the person you quoted as "getting it" (who basically said national celebration wouldn't work because of rivalry like Southampton/Pompey) doesn't "get it" after all. That was quick.

 

It's all in the quotes above. Fascinating insight into the fluidity of the mind of the conspiro-nutcase.

Edited 15 December, 2013 by CB Fry

[pap]

So the person you quoted as "getting it" (who basically said it wouldn't work because of rivalry like Southampton/Pompey) doesn't "get it" after all. That was quick.

 

It's all in the quotes above. Fascinating insight into the fluidity of the mind of the conspiro-nutcase.

 

I'd advise having a cup of coffee or two to short those logic circuits into action, mucker.

 

PhillipineSaint pointed out a lack of national unity as a reason that a national day might not be a goer. He pointed out local rivalries as evidence of this. At no point in his post did he say that this was exclusive to the English.

 

I came along with some broader definitions of division to support his argument. At no point in my post do I indicate that this is an exclusive trait of the English.

 

You wade in with your typical strawman boll*cks, insisting that we think that this is exclusive to the English. You're arguing a point we never made, and declaring victory in a battle that never existed.

 

Frankly, I think you've made a fool of yourself, and should take some time to reconsider your life

[norwaysaint]

That's a little bit silly and immature, Pap, what he just said does have a clear logical connection with your posts and you need to read back if you can't see it or you need to rephrase it drastically if it's not what you meant.

 

PS said that we don't have a national day in England because nothing unifies us, he then put that down to local rivalries, which you posted that that means he "gets it".

 

Well, this can be dismissed as a reason, because other countries have the same rivalries but manage a national day, so actually his post doesn't indicate he gets it at all. The national day itself is part of what unifies those factions, at least for a day, we have all of the usual inter-city, north-south and east west rivalries in addition to an indigenous population to consider over here. In fact, I'd say many of your posts on this thread indicate a blinkered thinking, with comments to do with "where you were born" showing that you really don't get it.

 

As to why no national day has ever started up, simple, there has never been an event big enough to inspire it. The US has its independence to celebrate, which is especially important to a nation of immigrants looking for a unified population. Norway has its independence too, from both Sweden and Denmark, plus liberation from the Nazis. Britain has trundled along as a state for hundreds of years, without needing liberating or independence.

 

Do we have the Daily Mail? Well there's no mainstream paper quite so fear and hate-mongering, but our far right party is in government now, so believe me, their version of the news is being spread well enough.

[pap]

That's a little bit silly and immature, Pap, what he just said does have a clear logical connection with your posts and you need to read back if you can't see it or you need to rephrase it drastically if it's not what you meant.

 

My closing line was intentionally silly and immature.

 

However, neither of the people he quoted said the things he claimed they did. Please show me otherwise.

[aintforever]

My closing line was intentionally silly and immature.

 

However, neither of the people he quoted said the things he claimed they did. Please show me otherwise.

 

Pap, you tried to make our our lack of national pride was something to do with the tribal nature between our towns. That is obviously nonsense because it's the same all around the World.

[pap]

Pap, you tried to make our our lack of national pride was something to do with the tribal nature between our towns. That is obviously nonsense because it's the same all around the World.

 

I agreed with PhillipineSaint's points, talked about the role of media (the Daily Fail) and other divisive points, such as the class system.

 

Some may correctly surmise that by talking about other factors, I might not have been attributing a lack of national unity to just one thing.

[Lord Duckhunter]

So it's the mail's fault is it Pap, is there anything wrong with todays society that has nothing to do with the daily mail, because a lot of people waste a lot of time blaming it.

 

America have thanksgiving yet are racially divided in many areas. There is a massive gap between rich and poor. I worked with southerners who hated Yankees with as much passion as any skate/saints hatred. I regularly met and worked with people who hated "wet backs" , blacks, whites, hicks , French, and numerous other races, religions and states. So your arguement is clearly a flawed one. If a nation as divided as the US can have a day like thanksgiving, then the UK could.easily have a national day.

[CB Fry]

My closing line was intentionally silly and immature.

 

However, neither of the people he quoted said the things he claimed they did. Please show me otherwise.

 

What exactly did I "claim" you were saying apart from responding to the quotes that the two of you wrote, and giving my own reply?

 

You both (as others have also noted, mainly because it is in what you had actually written, nothing to do with anything I've "claimed" you've written) were keen to agree that not having a national day was linked to the fact that our cities/regions don't get on.

 

I just pointed out what utter boll ocks that is. Because it is.

 

Tell you what Pap. If you like you can accuse me of you "claiming" it is boll ocks if it gives you some enemy to babble against.

 

And yeah, thanks for the life advice earlier. Conspiro-fu ckwits tend to be a very rich seam of perspective, sense and balance, I find, and never, ever make a fool of themselves.

Edited 15 December, 2013 by CB Fry

[pap]

What exactly did I "claim" you were saying apart from responding to the quotes that the two of you wrote, and giving my own reply?

 

You both (as others have also noted, mainly because it is in what you had actually written, nothing to do with anything I've "claimed" you've written) were keen to agree that not having a national day was linked to the fact that our cities/regions don't get on.

 

I just pointed out what utter boll ocks that is. Because it is.

 

Tell you what Pap. If you like you can accuse me of you "claiming" it is boll ocks if it gives you some enemy to babble against.

 

And yeah, thanks for the life advice earlier. Conspiro-fu ckwits tend to be a very rich seam of perspective, sense and balance, I find, and never, ever make a fool of themselves.

 

Matey. Give the little demons that operate the levers in your brain some time off. They've been very busy this year.

[Saint_clark]

That WAS a public holiday up to 1859.

 

It's technically thanksgiving, but that's going way off on a tangent.

[Barry Sanchez]

Plenty of local rivalries over here, but it has no bearing on the national day. In fact, the national dress, or bunad, worn by most Norwegians on 17th may is a regional thing, each area has it's own design, so most Norwegians are effectively in colors all day. It makes no difference on the day though, everyone gets on and celebrates together. Also there are many, many marching bands, all representing a different area and all in competition with each other, but it's a friendly rivalry on the day.

 

Last year I was in the main parade with my kids' school. In front of us was a marching band from Northern Ireland, invited over, behind us was a group of Malaysian women in full national costume. We passed a Scottish pipe band and many international groups, but all along the way the road was lined with huge crowds of people waving flags and cheering everybody. Like somebody said, maybe even Barry, it's not to do with where you're born, it's to do with where we all live together. It's a big community coming together event, a friendly, inclusive nationalism that makes me and most other immigrants feel like part of Norway.

 

I think what makes it unified is the fact that it all revolves around the children too. Nobody on here has really talked about that, too many people thinking it's got something to do with gangs of tattooed skinheads. Norway isn't any kind of perfect utopian society where everyone gets along, but for one day a year we try to be and it helps.

 

Pap wants it, yearns it to be the right wing extremists, the liberal's dont want anything that may unify or help this Country, they thrive on division.

[CB Fry]

Matey. Give the little demons that operate the levers in your brain some time off. They've been very busy this year.

 

LOL. I think most of us remember the fantasies you've come out with this year.

 

The "voice of reason" outfit don't really fit that well when you are a mentalist.

Edited 16 December, 2013 by CB Fry

[Ohio Saint]

, the liberal's dont want anything that may unify or help this Country, they thrive on division.

 

Workers of the world disunite! Huh?

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Pap wants it, yearns it to be the right wing extremists, the liberal's dont want anything that may unify or help this Country, they thrive on division.

 

"The liberal's" [sic] eh? I thought it was the fault of "leftist extremists"? make you mind up.

[norwaysaint]

Pap wants it, yearns it to be the right wing extremists, the liberal's dont want anything that may unify or help this Country, they thrive on division.

 

 

Funny, when you first started up the Barry Sanchez thing, I said to somebody "Why is dune pretending to be a labour voter, while still posting almost exactly the same stuff all the time?" The answer was that you were doing a silly character and would make a big act of falling out of love with the left and would soon claim to be leaving the labour party, championing more right wing values and constantly attacking the left. I thought you might do it a bit more smoothly though, it's all been rather clumsily done imo.

 

I've never understood why anyone thinks "liberal" is an effective insult. I've always considered myself liberal since I discovered what it meant, I will always champion people's personal freedoms and equality, you feel free to go the other way.

[pap]

Funny, when you first started up the Barry Sanchez thing, I said to somebody "Why is dune pretending to be a labour voter, while still posting almost exactly the same stuff all the time?" The answer was that you were doing a silly character and would make a big act of falling out of love with the left and would soon claim to be leaving the labour party, championing more right wing values and constantly attacking the left. I thought you might do it a bit more smoothly though, it's all been rather clumsily done imo.

 

I've never understood why anyone thinks "liberal" is an effective insult. I've always considered myself liberal since I discovered what it meant, I will always champion people's personal freedoms and equality, you feel free to go the other way.

 

The commonalities between Barry Sanchez and dune are certainly there. You'd also have to figure that a sad c**t like dune, who basically couldn't do without this place, would be back in some way, shape or form.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Funny, when you first started up the Barry Sanchez thing, I said to somebody "Why is dune pretending to be a labour voter, while still posting almost exactly the same stuff all the time?" The answer was that you were doing a silly character and would make a big act of falling out of love with the left and would soon claim to be leaving the labour party, championing more right wing values and constantly attacking the left. I thought you might do it a bit more smoothly though, it's all been rather clumsily done imo.

 

I've never understood why anyone thinks "liberal" is an effective insult. I've always considered myself liberal since I discovered what it meant, I will always champion people's personal freedoms and equality, you feel free to go the other way.

 

Great post, totally agree on the last bit.

 

I must say that when "Barry Sanchez" came on here I did think it was "Dune". The only things that Dune would post that BS hasn't have been posts extolling foxhunting and tips for buying shares - remember his tip to load up on HMV? lol.

[Grey Crab]

It just goes to show that dune/Barry clearly knows that his idea have no credibility. Otherwise, why would he go through the rigmarole of disguising himself/disguising his ideas. S'funny really, isn't it?

[suewhistle]

You wade in with your typical strawman boll*cks,)

 

What? CB Fry? Never!

 

As to the national unity business you could always take Italy; unified in the 1860s but still very regional and with such localism that there is the word 'campanilismo' after the bell tower of each small town. Can't remember the national holidays off-hand, but there were local ones as well (S.Ambrogio at Milan, for example). The World Cup tends to be a far better unifier mind.. I used to go to my local bar with an England flag - all very tongue in cheek - and an Italian one with a wry smile as soon as we'd been knocked out...

 

Personally I think May Day should get more prominence: apart from the capitalist rentiers amongst you we are all workers/ex-workers and May day has a long tradition. I know some people who go out at dawn to Morris dance and generally celebrate the spring. I've joined them in the past for a breakfast pint around 8, which is about as early as I can manage..

 

I don't dance but know loads of traditional tunes, and it's always the people like BS who give the most grief to people who have the temerity to do traditional dance and music.

[suewhistle]

The only things that Dune would post that BS hasn't have been posts extolling foxhunting and tips for buying shares - remember his tip to load up on HMV? lol.

 

No, why, was the b******d shorting them?

[Barry Sanchez]

The commonalities between Barry Sanchez and dune are certainly there. You'd also have to figure that a sad c**t like dune, who basically couldn't do without this place, would be back in some way, shape or form.

 

Still waiting for my apology Pap, or do you still think I'm dune?

[Barry Sanchez]

Great post, totally agree on the last bit.

 

I must say that when "Barry Sanchez" came on here I did think it was "Dune". The only things that Dune would post that BS hasn't have been posts extolling foxhunting and tips for buying shares - remember his tip to load up on HMV? lol.

 

I dislike foxhunters and persons who hunt for fun should have the same done to them.

[Barry Sanchez]

What? CB Fry? Never!

 

As to the national unity business you could always take Italy; unified in the 1860s but still very regional and with such localism that there is the word 'campanilismo' after the bell tower of each small town. Can't remember the national holidays off-hand, but there were local ones as well (S.Ambrogio at Milan, for example). The World Cup tends to be a far better unifier mind.. I used to go to my local bar with an England flag - all very tongue in cheek - and an Italian one with a wry smile as soon as we'd been knocked out...

 

Personally I think May Day should get more prominence: apart from the capitalist rentiers amongst you we are all workers/ex-workers and May day has a long tradition. I know some people who go out at dawn to Morris dance and generally celebrate the spring. I've joined them in the past for a breakfast pint around 8, which is about as early as I can manage..

 

I don't dance but know loads of traditional tunes, and it's always the people like BS who give the most grief to people who have the temerity to do traditional dance and music.

And dozy doe your partners and back to your places..........

[Barry Sanchez]

It just goes to show that dune/Barry clearly knows that his idea have no credibility. Otherwise, why would he go through the rigmarole of disguising himself/disguising his ideas. S'funny really, isn't it?

 

Not really monsieur Cab not really.

[Barry Sanchez]

Funny, when you first started up the Barry Sanchez thing, I said to somebody "Why is dune pretending to be a labour voter, while still posting almost exactly the same stuff all the time?" The answer was that you were doing a silly character and would make a big act of falling out of love with the left and would soon claim to be leaving the labour party, championing more right wing values and constantly attacking the left. I thought you might do it a bit more smoothly though, it's all been rather clumsily done imo.

 

I've never understood why anyone thinks "liberal" is an effective insult. I've always considered myself liberal since I discovered what it meant, I will always champion people's personal freedoms and equality, you feel free to go the other way.

 

 

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/liberal.html

 

Sums it up to me, what do they do?