Nationalism?

[Grey Crab]

I'd love to have a day celebrating my nationality. But then I read posts from c*nts like Barry et al and I become desperately ashamed of my country and that sort of hate-filled sh*t-eaters it produces.

[Grey Crab]

It seems that the discrimination in this country is mostly against the native population.

 

Yeh, of course it is you massive spastic.

 

Maybe you just feel that way because you are a massive tw*t and people (rightly) treat you like one?

[Rasiak-9-]

Not a master of debate, are you.

 

Haha I'm sorry but I just couldn't resist!

[pap]

Haha I'm sorry but I just couldn't resist!

 

tbf, it was better than your take on socialism

[Kingsland Codger]

What is there to be proud about?

 

Our tolerance.

[trousers]

Our tolerance.

 

I assume the "Our" in that sentence doesn't refer to the SaintsWeb Forum membership...?

[pap]

I assume the "Our" in that sentence doesn't refer to the SaintsWeb Forum membership...?

 

Or much of the country, which is why the call for national unity is such a laugh, even within England.

 

Any national celebration would be more about vicinity than unity.

[Halo Stickman]

What is there to be proud about?

 

Our intolerance of intolerance

[Barry Sanchez]

I'd love to have a day celebrating my nationality. But then I read posts from c*nts like Barry et al and I become desperately ashamed of my country and that sort of hate-filled sh*t-eaters it produces.

 

Morning Mr Crab.

[Barry Sanchez]

Its being steered by the extreme leftist agenda on here, turning it into a right wing issue when having a day off together should bring all together, Australia Day is great to anyone who has been out there, St Patricks Day is brilliant as well.

Its not a negative at all, merely driven by sandal wearing people who hate anyone having a good time.

[Barry Sanchez]

There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England.

Sir Winston Churchill

[norwaysaint]

Its being steered by the extreme leftist agenda on here, turning it into a right wing issue when having a day off together should bring all together, Australia Day is great to anyone who has been out there, St Patricks Day is brilliant as well.

Its not a negative at all, merely driven by sandal wearing people who hate anyone having a good time.

 

I think your problem is that, because of your agenda generally being to the right, you use most issues to try to make a stick to beat the left with, often even creating threads just in the hope that you'll get a chance. But you need to put that away and talk about it like a grown up.

 

Look back through the thread and you'll see it hasn't worked. Many left wing posters, me included, have supported nationalism and a national day. Many right wing posters have not been in favour. It's not an issue of left or right wing. It's an issue of how people feel the British deal with their nationalism. In the past it's been demonstrated in quite an unpleasant and excluding way. If an all embracing national day were created, that worked and encouraged immigrants to feel part of it too, then it would work well and would create a stronger nation. I know it's true, I see it here every year. People in national costume from Asia, Africa, or wherever waving Norwegian flags in the street and cheering and singing for Norway. Wouldn't you love to see a British version of that? My kids look forward to the national day like a birthday and I don't know anybody, literally anybody who isn't out celebrating. Nobody stays in.

 

Those who think a national day is some kind of right wing statement are very short sighted, I can promise you it's quite the opposite when it's done well.

[pap]

Its not a negative at all, merely driven by sandal wearing people who hate anyone having a good time.

 

Aw Barry, I do feel sorry for you if these are the conclusions you've reached. Do you think you're going to attract many plaudits by describing anyone who doesn't agree with you as a sandal-wearing killjoy?

People in this country know how to let their hair down. It's one of the things I like about it. I don't think you should get this animated because some people celebrate different things than where they happen to be born.

[pap]

I think your problem is that, because of your agenda generally being to the right

 

Barry is obviously New Labour.

[Barry Sanchez]

Aw Barry, I do feel sorry for you if these are the conclusions you've reached. Do you think you're going to attract many plaudits by describing anyone who doesn't agree with you as a sandal-wearing killjoy?

People in this country know how to let their hair down. It's one of the things I like about it. I don't think you should get this animated because some people celebrate different things than where they happen to be born.

 

No we dont pap, we dont know how to enjoy ourselves, we are too scared.

You sloped of the War thread once you could not copy and paste I see, and as for stating the obvious well, your contribution was hardly required:lol:

[Barry Sanchez]

Barry is obviously New Labour.

 

I left the party this year after 20 years in, you only joined last year, you are defo a Liberal Pap anyway.

[Barry Sanchez]

Aw Barry, I do feel sorry for you if these are the conclusions you've reached. Do you think you're going to attract many plaudits by describing anyone who doesn't agree with you as a sandal-wearing killjoy?

People in this country know how to let their hair down. It's one of the things I like about it. I don't think you should get this animated because some people celebrate different things than where they happen to be born.

 

You want it to be about where people are born Pap, where have I mentioned that, thats your exclusive liberal fearful agenda.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Lol @ Barry.

 

Liberal Liberal Liberal Liberal Liberal!!

 

Gaston Gaston Gaston

 

Reed Reed Reed

 

He's going to end up that crazy old guy shouting at lamp posts.

[tpbury]

This debate has happened before and I made an inarticulate response, just like I will do now.

 

Firstly to Norwaysaint - are you saying there is no social/racial antagonism present in Norway? I get the idea there is a lot of fascistic groups in Scandanavia- Norway is an exception?

 

Secondly, those of us born in the 60's and 70's (ie with a quite close connection to WWII - this war informed our lives as it would have indelibly imprinted on our parents, teachers, media and business people who were running the show 20 years after the end of the war). So we have the pink 'imperial'map of the world, the notion that Britain is best (and not s hit) - absolutely, unswervingly believed by the vast majority. This arrogance was articulated through football - 1966 reinforced it and it has taken 50 years for the UK to realise it is not the best in the world. It was once, if dispossessing native people of they're assets is a measure of success.'

 

Now I've lost my train of thought, it is probably related to the perceived crapness of foreign goalkeepers in the 70's, and that is why 'we' are best coz of Shilton, Jordan and Banks.

[pap]

No we dont pap, we dont know how to enjoy ourselves, we are too scared.

You sloped of the War thread once you could not copy and paste I see, and as for stating the obvious well, your contribution was hardly required:lol:

 

I think that your first comment, and indeed much of this thread, is a case of you projecting your own feelings and insecurities onto everyone else.

 

I'll be dipping back into the war thread to reply to one of Hamilton Saints' posts when I have time to do it justice. On an unrelated but still historical note, I'm keen to hear more of William the Liberator.

[Barry Sanchez]

I think that your first comment, and indeed much of this thread, is a case of you projecting your own feelings and insecurities onto everyone else.

 

I'll be dipping back into the war thread to reply to one of Hamilton Saints' posts when I have time to do it justice. On an unrelated but still historical note, I'm keen to hear more of William the Liberator.

 

You can assume what you want Pap.

[norwaysaint]

 

Firstly to Norwaysaint - are you saying there is no social/racial antagonism present in Norway?

 

No. Never said that and never would, we even have a far right, anti-immigration party in our coalition government now. I don't even know where you think I said that. What I said was that our national day here is set up in such a way that immigrants are inspired to join in and feel part of it, this helps a lot for both the immigrants feeling that they are a part of their new country and for those people who worry that because immigrants retain their original culture (like I have) that they have not accepted the culture of the country they live in (like I have). Like I also said, the typical symbol of this is an immigrant wearing the national dress of their original home country joining in the parade through the town while waving Norwegian flags and singing "Norge i rødt, hvitt og blått" or other Norwegian songs.

 

An inclusive national day is good for everyone, it's a win/win.

 

Having a few far right lunatics trying to marginalise immigrants is surely even more of a reason why you'd want an inclusive national day to try to make them feel more like a proud part of your country? Do you want them to be on the fringes and feeling apart from the rest of the nation?

[Barry Sanchez]

No. Never said that and never would, we even have a far right, anti-immigration party in our coalition government now. I don't even know where you think I said that. What I said was that our national day here is set up in such a way that immigrants are inspired to join in and feel part of it, this helps a lot for both the immigrants feeling that they are a part of their new country and for those people who worry that because immigrants retain their original culture (like I have) that they have not accepted the culture of the country they live in (like I have). Like I also said, the typical symbol of this is an immigrant wearing the national dress of their original home country joining in the parade through the town while waving Norwegian flags and singing "Norge i rødt, hvitt og blått" or other Norwegian songs.

 

An inclusive national day is good for everyone, it's a win/win.

 

Having a few far right lunatics trying to marginalise immigrants is surely even more of a reason why you'd want an inclusive national day to try to make them feel more like a proud part of your country? Do you want them to be on the fringes and feeling apart from the rest of the nation?

 

Exactly what I would want, a day for all, not that I would want anybody dressing up as a morris dancer mind.

[JN9]

I'm up for having a day off and a party..! Come on Barry, get organising, I'll help...

 

I'm not blowing up the balloons though, I hate doing that!

[Barry Sanchez]

I'm up for having a day off and a party..! Come on Barry, get organising, I'll help...

 

I'm not blowing up the balloons though, I hate doing that!

 

Brilliant thats two, I'll do the balloons and you bring the cake.

[Bearsy]

I've noticed some people i.e. tokyos-saint is so ashamed of being english that they often pretend to be japanese or on some occasions even scottish(!)

[Barry Sanchez]

I've noticed some people i.e. tokyos-saint is so ashamed of being english that they often pretend to be japanese or on some occasions even scottish(!)

 

I wish he could permenantly pretend to be amusing............................

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Its being steered by the extreme leftist agenda on here, turning it into a right wing issue when having a day off together should bring all together, Australia Day is great to anyone who has been out there, St Patricks Day is brilliant as well.

Its not a negative at all, merely driven by sandal wearing people who hate anyone having a good time.

 

Out of interest, who are the ones on here with an "extreme leftist agenda"?

[Barry Sanchez]

Out of interest, who are the ones on here with an "extreme leftist agenda"?

 

You appear as a good candidate I suppose. Pap is as foppy as Clegg so he gets the nod there as well.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

You appear as a good candidate I suppose. Pap is as foppy as Clegg so he gets the nod there as well.

 

hahahahahahahahahahahaha are you going on just this thread or have I built this up over time? I'm not sure apathy for a "national day" and gazumping your silly belief that the Normans liberated England justifies that.

 

Clegg is extreme left now is he as well? bless.

Edited 13 December, 2013 by anothersaintinsouthsea

[View From The Top]

I just relieved to find out that Saxon England was actually liberated by William of Normandy and not actually Conquered after all.

[Barry Sanchez]

hahahahahahahahahahahaha are you going on just this thread or have I built this up over time? I'm not sure apathy for a "national day" and gazumping your silly belief that the Normans liberated England justifies that.

 

Clegg is extreme left now is he as well? bless.

 

Where have I ever written the Normans liberated England?

[Barry Sanchez]

I just relieved to find out that Saxon England was actually liberated by William of Normandy and not actually Conquered after all.

 

:lol:

[badgerx16]

I just relieved to find out that Saxon England was actually liberated by William of Normandy and not actually Conquered after all.

 

No you've all got it wrong, he was really a visiting chiropodist - William the Corn-Curer.

[Barry Sanchez]

hahahahahahahahahahahaha are you going on just this thread or have I built this up over time? I'm not sure apathy for a "national day" and gazumping your silly belief that the Normans liberated England justifies that.

 

Clegg is extreme left now is he as well? bless.

 

This is a cracker of a post.

[pap]

Will the liberal elite be invited to this national day of celebration?

[derry]

Yeh, of course it is you massive spastic.

 

Maybe you just feel that way because you are a massive tw*t and people (rightly) treat you like one?

 

No thought for Spastics. Just demonstrates your ignorance. I don't 'feel' anything it's an opinion held by many but I suspect few if any on the liberal/labour left.

[Barry Sanchez]

Will the liberal elite be invited to this national day of celebration?

 

Of course Pap, they are more than welcome but would not show I suspect as everyone is having a good time and not offended by anything.

[pap]

Of course Pap, they are more than welcome but would not show I suspect as everyone is having a good time and not offended by anything.

 

Do you think they'd get on with the skinheads that'd invariably be attracted to such an event of national pomp and circumstance?

[buctootim]

I just relieved to find out that Saxon England was actually liberated by William of Normandy and not actually Conquered after all.

 

Edward the Confessor was only notionally 'English' - ruling after the Danish King Canute. He was only half Saxon - his mother was a daughter of the Duke of Normandy - Danish Viking raiders who settled. Harold's mum was also a Viking from Denmark. William the Conqueror was also of Danish Viking stock and of course a later Duke of Normandy. It was all just one big family row - being Anglo Saxon doesn't really come into it.

Edited 13 December, 2013 by buctootim

[derry]

Typical clueless UKIP voter.

 

Conservative with a damn good MP but like a lot of others will likely vote UKIP in the European elections to give the government a nudge they won't like.

[Barry Sanchez]

Do you think they'd get on with the skinheads that'd invariably be attracted to such an event of national pomp and circumstance?

 

Now you are letting a possibility stop the enjoyment of millions, thats so liberal Pap, the tail wagging the dog. Another typical liberalism is stereotyping when its suits them, a dreadful trait in anyone that Pap, others do that and get called allsorts by liberals funnily enough:p

[View From The Top]

Edward the Confessor was the only 'English' king after rule by the Danes under Canute. He was only half Saxon - his mother was from Normandy - the Normans were originally Danish Viking raiders who settled. Harold's mum was also a Viking from Denmark. William the Conqueror was also of Danish Viking stock. Being Anglo Saxon doesn't really come into comes into it.

 

The linage isn't in question. However, to suggest that England, south of the Danelaw line wasn't Anglo-Saxon is just plain wrong.

[Barry Sanchez]

Edward the Confessor was only notionally 'English' - ruling after the Danish King Canute. He was only half Saxon - his mother was a daughter of the Duke of Normandy - Danish Viking raiders who settled. Harold's mum was also a Viking from Denmark. William the Conqueror was also of Danish Viking stock. It was all just one big family row - being Anglo Saxon doesn't really come into comes into it.

 

The Normans were Scandinavian and superb at inter marrying with the locals, that was their success where ever they went in the old regions of France and England.

They ruled in England anyway by in effect franchising the land out to English nobles who then paid their dues to the King.

Edited 13 December, 2013 by Barry Sanchez

[buctootim]

The linage isn't in question. However, to suggest that England, south of the Danelaw line wasn't Anglo-Saxon is just plain wrong.

 

The people were primarily Anglo Saxon, especially after Ethelred the Unready (Edwards dad) had most of the Danes murdered - but as through history the ruling Royal lineage is 'international' at best.

[View From The Top]

The people were primarily Anglo Saxon, especially after Ethelred the Unready (Edwards dad) had most of the Danes murdered - but as through history the ruling Royal lineage is 'international' at best.

 

I don't disagree.

[Rasiak-9-]

I guess the overall question is whether or not you believe its healthy for a country to have a core, common culture which people ought to assimilate to or whether or not you think the host country ought to make an effort to incorporate the cultures of minorities and immigrants.

 

Of course, if you choose the latter, you then have to make a choice about where you draw the lines about what is non-negotiable as clashes (for example between gays and religious groups) is rather inevitable. You can't tolerate everything because there will be direct and unavoidable conflicts here and there and as such, a choice of some kind will be forced.

[badgerx16]

They ruled in England anyway by in effect franchising the land out to English nobles who then paid their dues to the King.

"By William’s death, the Anglo-Saxon aristocracy was all but replaced. In the Domesday book of 1086, there are only four large English landowners."

 

http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/NormanConquest/a/The-Consequences-Of-The-Norman-Conquest.htm

 

"It has been estimated that only about 8 per cent of the land was under Anglo-Saxon control by 1087" Wood, Michael (2005). In Search of the Dark Ages. London: BBC

 

http://www.britannia.com/history/hastings.html

Edited 13 December, 2013 by badgerx16

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Where have I ever written the Normans liberated England?

 

post 21:

 

Go on, thats a bold statement, werent the English liberated from the Normans?

 

my bad, you're actually claiming that the English were liberated from the Normans. Just as silly.

[Barry Sanchez]

"By William’s death, the Anglo-Saxon aristocracy was all but replaced. In the Domesday book of 1086, there are only four large English landowners."

 

http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/NormanConquest/a/The-Consequences-Of-The-Norman-Conquest.htm

 

"It has been estimated that only about 8 per cent of the land was under Anglo-Saxon control by 1087" Wood, Michael (2005). In Search of the Dark Ages. London: BBC

 

http://www.britannia.com/history/hastings.html

 

Within a few generations obviously not straight away, they wiped out, within a century marriages between English and Norman were frequent, the only way the Normans kept power was from castles as few actually came over, William was hardly ever here in truth.

A new NormanEnglish after a while came to be at it obviously, as I said there biggest weapon was integration, the Normans were quite frankly amazing at what they did. The pale in Ireland as another example of their amazing intentions and assimilation.