Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 So then, after seeing Osvaldo scoring 2 from 2 from open play over the last couple of games, including the wonder goal on Saturday, who should be our starting striker. Lambert has certainly not been on form, and he doesn't fill me with confidence that he will score from open play due to him not getting into the right positions. However, he is still better in the build up to goals. So, who do we start against Newcastle? Decisions, decisions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Osvaldo at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 If Ossie plays, who takes penalties ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 9 December, 2013 If Ossie plays, who takes penalties ? Ossie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints67 Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 If Ossie plays, who takes penalties ? JW-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Osvaldo to start up top, then a decision needs to be made regarding who we are playing. For me Rickie doesnt fit our system as the loan front man but there are certainly options there to play him as part of our attacking three midfielders or even as a partner to Ossie who I see creating a decemt partnership. Ossie is starting to get a little better, Im sure its partly confidence as shown by his greediness, Im hoping he will kick on over the next month but also as a team WHOEVER is upfront will need the team to be more creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 For me Rickie doesnt fit our system as the loan front man but there are certainly options there to play him as part of our attacking three midfielders Agree with this. Rickie is probably our best 'through ball' player and Osvaldo is crying out for such deliveries with the runs he makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 I think we'd have to shoehorn Lambert into midfield. He could be useful there but would he be better than Lallana, Rodriguez, JWP et al? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Rickie didn't seem too happy when he trudged off at the end, not even acknowledging the crowd who were buzzing about how well we had played. I think he realized that Osvaldo's goal and Rodriguez's speed and trickery could well result in more days starting on the bench and - consequently - a diminishing chance of being on the plane to Brazil. As much as I love the guy and all the skills and vision he brings, it's hard to fault Pochettino for taking that approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Pete Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 I think it will be a case of horses for courses from now on. For me, there will still be games where Lambert is the better option due to his ability to hold the ball up and bring others into the game. (In the home game against Hull for instance, I thought he was outstanding). I still don't think that Osvaldo is combining that well with Lallana, Rodriguez, etc, but hopefully he will continue to improve now that he's got the confidence of a couple of goals behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Personally, I don't think Lambert in midfield would ever really work. Certainly wouldnt be better than JR, AL, SD or JWP in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Osvaldo has the confidence at the moment, so I think if we stick with him it's likely he'll get better and better. Think he can do the job against Newcastle too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Personally, I don't think Lambert in midfield would ever really work. Certainly wouldnt be better than JR, AL, SD or JWP in that area. I think Lambert has really fallen away this season, bit like Holt at Norwich last season. He always looks so slow and ponderous, always looking to slow the game down to his pace, don't think he was doing that last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Osvaldo has score one good goal - I wouldnt get carried away. Still has a lot to prove. Thought he would kick on after his goal on saturday and show some magic....... but he fluffed 3 decent chances and did little in a very good team performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Osvaldo has score one good goal - I wouldnt get carried away. Still has a lot to prove. Thought he would kick on after his goal on saturday and show some magic....... but he fluffed 3 decent chances and did little in a very good team performance. People aren't getting carried away, just saying that as a striker this season it seems that Osvaldo has been more effective... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 People aren't getting carried away, just saying that as a striker this season it seems that Osvaldo has been more effective... which the stats would tend to show; Osvaldo 3 goals from 8 starts and 4 sub appearances, Lambert 4 from 12 and 3, but if Osvaldo took the penalties who could say he wouldn't be on 5 goals (well hypothetically, don't think he was even here for the West Brom game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 4 goals and 4 assists vs 3 goals and 0 assists tells another story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Osvaldo as the default, but would be tempted to play Lambert when we know we're going to have a lot of the ball around the oppos box, as he is good winning those headers in the box, and little touches around the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 9 December, 2013 4 goals and 4 assists vs 3 goals and 0 assists tells another story I know this is against your Osvaldo hatred so I am not surprised that you would want to criticise Osvaldo, but surely you must agree that recently he has been more effective, and certainly from open play. Lambert doesn't gamble enough to get into positions to score, which is one reason why we don't create as many 'clear cut' chances and also why the ones we have tend not to fall to Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 I know this is against your Osvaldo hatred so I am not surprised that you would want to criticise Osvaldo, but surely you must agree that recently he has been more effective, and certainly from open play. Lambert doesn't gamble enough to get into positions to score, which is one reason why we don't create as many 'clear cut' chances and also why the ones we have tend not to fall to Lambert. Lambert has definitely slowed down of late, perhaps the International games were a bit too much for him and he needs a break but he best days seem to be behind him. If we got a realistic offer for him in January I think we should seriously consider it and go for someone a bit more mobile. In the meantime we should allow the JRod-Osvaldo partnership to develop at every chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Lambert has definitely slowed down of late, perhaps the International games were a bit too much for him and he needs a break but he best days seem to be behind him. If we got a realistic offer for him in January I think we should seriously consider it and go for someone a bit more mobile. In the meantime we should allow the JRod-Osvaldo partnership to develop at every chance. I also don't think he does the defensive work that Pochettino wants him to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 I also don't think he does the defensive work that Pochettino wants him to... He's certainly handy to have at opponents corners though but JRod seems to do far more than his share of pressing opponents back 5s. It eventually knackers him for the attacking side of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 I know this is against your Osvaldo hatred so I am not surprised that you would want to criticise Osvaldo, but surely you must agree that recently he has been more effective, and certainly from open play. Lambert doesn't gamble enough to get into positions to score, which is one reason why we don't create as many 'clear cut' chances and also why the ones we have tend not to fall to Lambert. I was very impressed with Osvaldo's goal (obviously), but genuinely haven’t seen much else that has impressed me so far. Our style of play doesn’t maximise Lamberts strengths that is for sure so on that basis a full throttle Ossie will become the obvious choice id imagine. Lambert needs to drop too deep to get the ball under mopo’s tactics/style and that removes him from the danger area(s). I pointed out after the Villa game that Lambert is deadly but only when we get him the ball in the right areas. Against Villa he had only two touches in the box. One setup Lallana for a great chance and the other was the assist for Osvaldo’s goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom28 Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 I would find room for both of them. Lambert in the 10, Osvaldo in the 9. J-rod and Lallana in the 7 and 11 (Acknowledging that they all rotate anyway). Morgan and Wanyama in the holding positions. I think that is our strongest line up when everyone is fully fit. Creates a very strong subs bench: JWP, Davis, Ramirez, Cork (plus defensive subs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 I would find room for both of them. Lambert in the 10, Osvaldo in the 9. J-rod and Lallana in the 7 and 11 (Acknowledging that they all rotate anyway). Morgan and Wanyama in the holding positions. I think that is our strongest line up when everyone is fully fit. Creates a very strong subs bench: JWP, Davis, Ramirez, Cork (plus defensive subs). you need to be far more mobile than Lambert to play "number 10", you also need a technical ability way beyond Lambert's, you just have to admit that players get older and less effective and put them out to grass gently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 you need to be far more mobile than Lambert to play "number 10", you also need a technical ability way beyond Lambert's, you just have to admit that players get older and less effective and put them out to grass gently. You are only saying all this whilst Roger is offline. Just you wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 you need to be far more mobile than Lambert to play "number 10", you also need a technical ability way beyond Lambert's, you just have to admit that players get older and less effective and put them out to grass gently. Agree. All the stuff about Lambert being a number 10 is because he has good technique and often drops off the front well. Actually being a number 10 is about more than that, and I would rather Lallana, J Rod, Davis and Ramirez at 10, all of whom are better suited than RL. Lambert is a forward, an adaptable one, but a forward. He will still get plenty of minutes for us and is an important player. In terms of the next game though, which is what the OP asked about, it would be Osvaldo up top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Matty 76 Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Dropping Osvaldo after Saturday is the last thing we should be doing, could stop him from kicking on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 4 goals and 4 assists vs 3 goals and 0 assists tells another story Rickie Lambert has not scored from open play this season. Rickie Lambert got 3 goals from open play in the final 16 matches of last season, against Wigan, Newcastle and Stoke. Rickie Lambert has averaged out at about a goal every ten games from open play over almost a calendar year. Not impressive. However, I grant you that you can't dismiss or ignore his ability with a dead ball, nor indeed his assists, through-balls or ability in the air, yet on the other side of the coin you've got to admit that those are attributes irrelevant to his ability as a goalscoring centre-forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Surely didn't people suggest this was the scenario when Osvaldo was first signed. ....so why the questioning now? Lambert's career " peaked " with his England caps, (and few would dare to suggest he didn't deserve them), but barring another injury crisis for Saints (or England-in the remaining friendlies) Ricky must realise that his seasons are severely numbered, although no-one is suggesting he's finished as a Prem.striker - are they ? Osvaldo should never be compared to Rickie Lambert, because they are different types of players but if Osvaldo can convert more chances like the one v.Man.City, and begin to score regularly then he's going to be first choice for quite a while ....whereas I still see RL with an important role to play.....even if it means coming off the bench on a regular basis, although I'd feel happier to have him on the pitch whenever we get a penalty in the last minute. Penalties are few and far between in the Prem. we definitely need another RL (or MLT ) to rely on to convert the things after they've been awarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Surely didn't people suggest this was the scenario when Osvaldo was first signed. ....so why the questioning now? Lambert's career " peaked " with his England caps, (and few would dare to suggest he didn't deserve them), but barring another injury crisis for Saints (or England-in the remaining friendlies) Ricky must realise that his seasons are severely numbered, although no-one is suggesting he's finished as a Prem.striker - are they ? Osvaldo should never be compared to Rickie Lambert, because they are different types of players but if Osvaldo can convert more chances like the one v.Man.City, and begin to score regularly then he's going to be first choice for quite a while ....whereas I still see RL with an important role to play.....even if it means coming off the bench on a regular basis, although I'd feel happier to have him on the pitch whenever we get a penalty in the last minute. Penalties are few and far between in the Prem. we definitely need another RL (or MLT ) to rely on to convert the things after they've been awarded. But surely JWP must take a mean penalty? Should be able to with his dead ball ability. JRod has scored all of the penalties he's taken for us I believe although that's probably limited to a couple in the League Cup last season. I really don't think finding another pernalty taker amongst our players is going to cause a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom28 Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Dropping Lambert is madness in my view. He's one of our more creative players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Dropping Lambert is madness in my view. He's one of our more creative players. He really isn't, he might have been in the past but this season he's a total liabilty more often than not. Look at last Wednesday, we had nothing at the sharp end and MPo was obliged to make a desperation substitution after about half an hour. Once we get past this Lambert is God crap we'll be a lot better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Lambert will always see the pass to put a better positioned player in which IMO result in more goals than Dani Osvaldo can score and often ignores better placed players to do his own thing. His last two goals were examples of both styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Lambert will always see the pass to put a better positioned player in which IMO result in more goals than Dani Osvaldo can score and often ignores better placed players to do his own thing. His last two goals were examples of both styles. True - certainly Lambert's awareness of the whole game is superior, but RL wouldnt have scored that goal at the weekend, and certainly seems to be struggling to get clear sights of goal in open play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 you need to be far more mobile than Lambert to play "number 10", you also need a technical ability way beyond Lambert's, you just have to admit that players get older and less effective and put them out to grass gently. So who do you see has the technical ability in our squad over and above Lambert; or have we not signed him yet. Lambert will provide most assists in our team and will play a fair amount of games this season.. out to grass.. nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 So who do you see has the technical ability in our squad over and above Lambert; or have we not signed him yet. Lambert will provide most assists in our team and will play a fair amount of games this season.. out to grass.. nonsense Technically ? Lallana, Ramirez, Osvaldo to name three Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Technically ? Lallana, Ramirez, Osvaldo to name three Have to agree to disagree there I'm afraid.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 For now, Osvaldo. Before the Villa game I was banging the drum for him to get a few starts. He obviously came on as a sub, and scored. Then he scored that goal at the weekend and had a couple more chances than usual. I'd like to keep him in the side for 2-3 more games and see how how progression continues. The guy is class and has the pedigree, lets give him time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 He really isn't, he might have been in the past but this season he's a total liabilty more often than not. Look at last Wednesday, we had nothing at the sharp end and MPo was obliged to make a desperation substitution after about half an hour. Once we get past this Lambert is God crap we'll be a lot better off. I think you need to get past the anti-Lambert opinion you have... Lambert is still our best passer of a football.. we will replace him but not until we sign better creative players which we do not have at present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 I think you need to get past the anti-Lambert opinion you have... Lambert is still our best passer of a football.. we will replace him but not until we sign better creative players which we do not have at present In fact with his 67.9% pass success rate only Boruc of our entire squad is a worse passer than Lambert. Morgan is the best passer closely followed by JWP, most of the others are above 80%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan abnormal Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Osvaldo should start vs Newcastle. Would be madness to drop him after the confidence boost of 2 goals in 2 games. He is only going to be able to prove himself with an extended run in his preferred position rather than constantly in and out of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 In fact with his 67.9% pass success rate only Boruc of our entire squad is a worse passer than Lambert. Morgan is the best passer closely followed by JWP, most of the others are above 80%. Meaningless statistics.. I'm referring to passes that create chances; Morgan would certainly be nowhere to be seen.. anyone can pass the ball around and keep it as we have shown all season; but we do not create and Lambert is still the best at assists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Osvaldo should start vs Newcastle. Would be madness to drop him after the confidence boost of 2 goals in 2 games. He is only going to be able to prove himself with an extended run in his preferred position rather than constantly in and out of the team. I agree Osvaldo needs a run in the team, but apart from his goal on Saturday, he still has a lot to prove in the EPL.. lets hope he adjusts quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Osvaldo, Lamberts third choice as a striker for me, Rodriguez is better than him now too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Osvaldo, Lamberts third choice as a striker for me, Rodriguez is better than him now too Don't be ridiculous. Rickie still has a big part to play. JRod is fine out wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 I quite liked them both playing together against Villa, it looked quite lively. A front 4 of Lallana, Rodriguez, Lambert and Osvaldo is going to cause a hell of a lot of problems for the opposition. I think you need to create activity around the front players, I don't think either look that effective just stuck up top away from the play - you need to get in and around them, taking on the 2nd balls, running in behind etc. I think there's a place for both and they're clever enough to play together, Rickie certainly is. He's not getting any younger, but he's still class. It's not like he's going to lose pace, as he never had any, so that ability will stay in there....he could probably play onto near 40 in my eyes, has really looked after himself in the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneawol Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 But surely JWP must take a mean penalty? Should be able to with his dead ball ability. JRod has scored all of the penalties he's taken for us I believe although that's probably limited to a couple in the League Cup last season. I really don't think finding another pernalty taker amongst our players is going to cause a problem. Dani taking a penalty for Roma.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Durman Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 People aren't getting carried away, just saying that as a striker this season it seems that Osvaldo has been more effective... Based on what? A wonder goal? Who headered the ball into the danger zone for Oswaldo to score against Aston Villa? Oswaldo needs to improve his goals to chances ratio. Wonder goal are one thing, but he missed two bread & butter chances that would have won the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard Posted 9 December, 2013 Share Posted 9 December, 2013 Dani taking a penalty for Roma.... Takes two penalties in that video and scores some really nice goals, hope he can produce that sort of magic for Saints! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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