Cork / Wanyama

[CFSFC]

I dont think when Wanyama returns It has to be one or the other.

 

I think we could play the Two of them together and play Morgan further up the park. We lack goals and morgans energy in the final third with Jay and Lallana could be a lovely front three with rickie and Osvaldo vying for the top position.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I prefer it when Morgan arrives late in the box rather than get too involved up there with the ball at his feet. We tried a lot of Morgan with the ball in and around the area at the start of the season and it didn't really work too well. He likes things a bit more direct and for him to run onto and it doesn't gel too well with the rest of the guys at the moment. Though he would be epic at winning the ball back even further up the pitch.

[teenagegsaint]

If anybody says Cork is better than Wanyama you're stupid, it isn't even debatable.

[lifeintheslowlane]

If anybody says Cork is better than Wanyama you're stupid, it isn't even debatable.

 

So you have spoken and it's no longer debatable...thanks for that in depth insight we'd never considered before.

Edited 9 December, 2013 by lifeintheslowlane

[Shroppie]

If anybody says Cork is better than Wanyama you're stupid, it isn't even debatable.

 

Although Wanyama is stronger in the tackle than Cork and has more physical presence, Cork is better in most other ways - vision, passing, movement.

 

OMG. I think I'm stupid.

[CitySaint]

If anybody says Cork is better than Wanyama you're stupid, it isn't even debatable.

 

I believe Cork to be an all round better footballer, in a style of play where possession is key he gives the ball away less. I also believe he is fitter and anticipates better than Wanyama. The only counter claim would be that Wanyama is a stronger tackler and physical presence. I would have saved myself £12 million personally and stuck with Cork.

[Shroppie]

I believe Cork to be an all round better footballer, in a style of play where possession is key he gives the ball away less. I also believe he is fitter and anticipates better than Wanyama. The only counter claim would be that Wanyama is a stronger tackler and physical presence. I would have saved myself £12 million personally and stuck with Cork.

 

This is worrying. As explained by teenagesaint, you must be stupid too. Stupidity is breaking out all over the forum. (Not for the first time).

[CitySaint]

This is worrying. As explained by teenagesaint, you must be stupid too. Stupidity is breaking out all over the forum. (Not for the first time).

 

 

I apologise for such stupidity.

[svetigpung]

If anybody says Cork is better than Wanyama you're stupid, it isn't even debatable.

 

good post ... on a forum!

 

I have always liked Cork. His sense of play suits our style. Hard working and always looking for the pass.

I would have rotated our three CM all season. Would have kept all three on their toes. The occassional rest could have prevented the injuries.

And i was saying this before the injuries came.

[Window Cleaner]

Looks like we'll have 8 or 9 games to make up our minds then, for me it depends which Cork turns up, the one from Wednesday evening or the one from Saturday afternoon. Might have been a bit rusty on Wednesday vI suppose or perhaps playing with Victor doesn't suit him that well.

[Lazlo78]

I would have saved myself £12 million personally and stuck with Cork.

 

Ha, I just knew it! You bought Wanyama out of your own money, didn't you. I thought we agreed on small presents and then you go and blow £12M on a Kenyan giant...

 

(more seriously: every top team needs more than a good starting XI, and while it is very relevant to discuss the merits of our respective CM's I hope MP can keep all of them happy at SFC)

[Cabrone]

Can't see why all 3 can't play together, Big Vic infront of the back 4 with Morgan\Jack in the engine room positions.

 

I'd also persist with a Lambert\Ossie combination, Ossie playing spearhead and Ricky playing foil - I really think we could get a very productive partnership going there given a bit of patience. Don't think they have had enough time together to see what they can really do.

[Mowgli]

This was a serious thread until teenage saint got involved, at which point no one had said cork was better than Wanyama. FWIW I think Morgan would be wasted playing further forward as he can't really shoot. Tap ins following a let run are what he is good at. But yes, cork gives us good options in the middle. This is one zone on the pitch where rotation would be quite effective.

[lifeintheslowlane]

Gawd...look what happens when I go to walk the dog for and hour...a bloody discussion has broken out!! Teenagesaint was right...you're all stupid.

[Chez]

`Cork is better than Wanyama' - that kind of post could well bite you on the bum at some point in the future, so I'm not going to make it here, but I do think Poch has got it totally wrong up to now when it comes to Cork's selection. I probably wouldn't have started Cork, especially as Wanyama started very well at WBA and by and large has continued that form (there have been some poor showing I might add), but there have been a lot of times when we have taken a midfielder off and Cork would have been the ideal replacement. Quite frankly he has been ignored by Poch, which must have been very hard to take considering he was our player of the season (in my eyes, if not the majority) last time out. Perhaps now after a decent showing from Cork against a formidable midfield, he won't have any concerns about bringing him on.

 

I said before the game that Cork would do fine and like Jos he hasn't disappointed. In Davis, Jos, Chambers and Cork we have some decent players in reserve. Maybe not world beaters, but good enough to hold there own until our first string get fit again.

[Window Cleaner]

This was a serious thread until teenage saint got involved, at which point no one had said cork was better than Wanyama. FWIW I think Morgan would be wasted playing further forward as he can't really shoot. Tap ins following a let run are what he is good at. But yes, cork gives us good options in the middle. This is one zone on the pitch where rotation would be quite effective.

 

 

all professional footballers can shoot, they wouldn't be pros if they couldn't. Doing it in the heat of the action takes some time to get right on a regular basis. Most of our players have a problem with accurate shooting in the nanoseconds available to them, it's what makes Suarez an 80 million £ player and Lallana not. If Lallana could finish like Suarez as well as his other attributes he'd be a "Ballon D'Or" winner.

[saintbob40]

Holding mid as quarterback or pitbull.....no right or wrong answer really-it should depend on the situation,the opposition and your own footballing taste.

 

Where Potch has slipped up is by not rotating and making this a binary discussion in most people's eyes-same now with Lambert and Osvaldo.

 

Wanyama has a stress fracture which tells its own story on training methods and selection policy.

[Window Cleaner]

Holding mid as quarterback or pitbull.....no right or wrong answer really-it should depend on the situation,the opposition and your own footballing taste.

 

Where Potch has slipped up is by not rotating and making this a binary discussion in most people's eyes-same now with Lambert and Osvaldo.

 

Wanyama has a stress fracture which tells its own story on training methods and selection policy.

 

 

 

not sure it's a stress facture at all, it's a hairline fracture resulting from a collision from what I've read. Don't forget that Victor has committed the most fouls in the PL.

[saintbob40]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_fracture

 

Same thing I think but I am no doctor.

 

The danger for VW is that he ends up like Lee Cattermole who usually gets booked whilst putting his boots on in the dressing room before the game!

[NewYorkSaint]

Can't see why all 3 can't play together, Big Vic infront of the back 4 with Morgan\Jack in the engine room positions.

 

.

 

This is exactly what I argued for back at the start of the season. Reclaim the Morgan/Jack combo in a 41221 formation and let Vic be the rock in front of the back four. It does mean JWP and Davis on the bench, though. Truth is we have a lot of great options.

[Window Cleaner]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_fracture

 

Same thing I think but I am no doctor.

 

The danger for VW is that he ends up like Lee Cattermole who usually gets booked whilst putting his boots on in the dressing room before the game!

 

A stress facture is caused by err repetitive stress, a hairline fracture is caused by an impact. Wanyama collided with Guzan and chipped a bone in his leg well according to the press anyway.

[Andy Durman]

Is it not always the same on this website. One good game and he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. One bad game and he's rubbish. Can we have a little more balance in the arguments.

 

Cork whilst excellent did make a few defensive mistakes. He along with four other players should have cleared the cross from which they scored. Defensively he is not as good as Wanyama, but boy can he pass and has quick feet. We are luck y to have both players and both players bring different qualities.

[Chez]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_fracture

 

Same thing I think but I am no doctor.

 

The danger for VW is that he ends up like Lee Cattermole who usually gets booked whilst putting his boots on in the dressing room before the game!

 

VW does commit fouls and I'm amazed how few bookings he gets, but nothing I have seen so far has been anywhere near as reckless as some of the poor tackles Cattermole has put in over the last few years. Reputation may go before him, but he earned that reputation. I don't think VW is anywhere near to earning that sort of rep.

[Chez]

We are luck y to have both players and both players bring different qualities.

could not agree more. Add the 7 out of 10 Davis into the mix and we aren't too badly off in the middle.

[derry]

`Cork is better than Wanyama' - that kind of post could well bite you on the bum at some point in the future, so I'm not going to make it here, but I do think Poch has got it totally wrong up to now when it comes to Cork's selection. I probably wouldn't have started Cork, especially as Wanyama started very well at WBA and by and large has continued that form (there have been some poor showing I might add), but there have been a lot of times when we have taken a midfielder off and Cork would have been the ideal replacement. Quite frankly he has been ignored by Poch, which must have been very hard to take considering he was our player of the season (in my eyes, if not the majority) last time out. Perhaps now after a decent showing from Cork against a formidable midfield, he won't have any concerns about bringing him on.

 

I said before the game that Cork would do fine and like Jos he hasn't disappointed. In Davis, Jos, Chambers and Cork we have some decent players in reserve. Maybe not world beaters, but good enough to hold there own until our first string get fit again.

 

Pretty good summary of where they are. If Cork plays well and the results are good with the midfield playing well as a unit, Vic should wait for his chance to get back in. I will say that Cork is a much more secure midfielder than Davis whose game is mostly finding space receiving and passing with the odd longer attacking ball but doesn't close down tightly or tackle much (2 on Sat, 27th and 75th mins when most of the team tackled a lot). I think he has been unused as a sub at times when he really was a better option than Davis.

 

When Wanyama comes back he should be clear of the booking problem which becomes 10 before suspension at the beginning of January.

[hackedoff]

I believe Cork to be an all round better footballer, in a style of play where possession is key he gives the ball away less. I also believe he is fitter and anticipates better than Wanyama. The only counter claim would be that Wanyama is a stronger tackler and physical presence. I would have saved myself £12 million personally and stuck with Cork.

 

Totally agree, I guess that makes us both stupid though.

[toe_punt]

Wanyama certainly has some qualities that we need, BUT his passing is woeful. I've never seen a player turn the ball over as often as he does.

So stating that it is "stupid" to debate Cork vs Wanyama is stupid.

 

Still what would you expect from " teenagegsaint ". Is that supposed to read "teenage" or "Teenaged". I'm not sure what "teenageg" means?

[norwaysaint]

Wanyama certainly has some qualities that we need, BUT his passing is woeful. I've never seen a player turn the ball over as often as he does.

So stating that it is "stupid" to debate Cork vs Wanyama is stupid.

 

Still what would you expect from " teenagegsaint ". Is that supposed to read "teenage" or "Teenaged". I'm not sure what "teenageg" means?

 

it it means it's somebody's wind up account, how many actual teenagers do you know who would give themselves that username? Plenty of bites on here too.

[Toon Saint]

The Guardian writers must be pretty stupid as well: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/dec/09/premier-league-10-talking-points-weekend-action

 

Saints Cork up Touré

 

There were many excellent performances from Southampton players on Saturday – Adam Lallana and Luke Shaw were again wonderful, Dejan Lovren was immense at the back and Dani Osvaldo scored a sumptuous goal – but Jack Cork deserves particular mention. It is by no means obvious that Southampton needed to buy Victor Wanyama in the summer but they did and that has led to Cork being kept on the sidelines until Saturday, when he was cast into his first league start of the season against Yaya Touré, no less. He took a few minutes to get back up to speed with Premier League proceedings but soon he began to run the Southampton show in the middle. Touré did begin to look a little jaded as the game wore on – and City should definitely spare him Tuesday's trip to Bayern Munich, where the likelihood of them getting the 3-0 win they need to top the group is miniscule, especially compared to the need to have a fresh Touré against Arsenal next weekend – but that should not detract from the performance of Cork, who helped prove that there is depth to this Southampton squad. Paul Doyle

[Roger]

Please tell me the echo didn't give cork 6?

[Legod Third Coming]

`Cork is better than Wanyama' - that kind of post could well bite you on the bum at some point in the future, so I'm not going to make it here, but I do think Poch has got it totally wrong up to now when it comes to Cork's selection. I probably wouldn't have started Cork, especially as Wanyama started very well at WBA and by and large has continued that form (there have been some poor showing I might add), but there have been a lot of times when we have taken a midfielder off and Cork would have been the ideal replacement. Quite frankly he has been ignored by Poch, which must have been very hard to take considering he was our player of the season (in my eyes, if not the majority) last time out. Perhaps now after a decent showing from Cork against a formidable midfield, he won't have any concerns about bringing him on.

 

I said before the game that Cork would do fine and like Jos he hasn't disappointed. In Davis, Jos, Chambers and Cork we have some decent players in reserve. Maybe not world beaters, but good enough to hold there own until our first string get fit again.

 

Trouble is I saw Cork in the cup and he was poor - which could well be how he was in training. Often players coming back from injuries do struggle. On Saturday (and against Villa, apart from the obvious slip) I thought Cork was outstanding. But he's not a bull. And sometimes you need a bull. Against Arsenal, players bounced of Victor who would have blown Jack away. Horses for courses for me.

[stjohn]

Lets not forget this a team sport. All our players have strengths and weaknesses. Corky and Big Vic are very different players. Vic is great at breaking the play up but always gives it simple. If MP wants possession he is the way to go. However,corky is definately more creativity and progressive in his passing and is the best option if we need a goal. Big Vic is the man to defend a lead. They are both great players and need to drive each others improvement as footballers. With spider and JWP, saints have a multi-dimensional, multi-talented midfield.

[SuperMikey]

In the summer when we were linked with Wanyama, I put forward the idea of playing Cork and Vic in holding positions in front of the back 4 with Morgan slightly ahead of them in a screening role, supporting the forward players and helping to break up play in the more advanced positions on the park. Still think that would work tbh, although it would mean dropping one of the 3 playing behind the striker (which, atm, would be Prowsey).