Savage suggests Moyes should buy a load of Southampton players.....

[Smirking_Saint]

If a serious cemented bid of £30 Million came in for any of our players we would sell, even if we did not want or require to, the player would want to go or their agent would push it upon them, the lure is just too big.

We could not offer them anything, the only way we could get them to stay is to buy huge and do a Chelsea or City, that is not going to happen.

 

Pretty much this right now, perhaps progression will happen more slowly then Chelsea and City however we'll still need to spend around the 40m mark most years and keep the squad more or less intact.

 

Dune/barry is right though, a fee of around 30m will put very heavy pressure on us to sell, yes we have made a good start to the season but we havnt proven anything yet after all.

[Miltonaggro]

I know it's Manchester United, but can you imagine the cost? Can you imagine Cortese's starting point? Not one key player will leave in the January window, you watch...

[Mr X]

Why would any of the Saints players want a transfer to a team that is lower in the table?

 

Lower by all of one point & the biggest club on the planet you do the maths

[Shroppie]

Lower by all of one point & the biggest club on the planet you do the maths

 

WAS one of the greatest clubs. Now in free fall. Stay with Saints for CL football.

[Window Cleaner]

WAS one of the greatest clubs. Now in free fall. Stay with Saints for CL football.

 

haven't studied their apparent demise much but it would seem to me that one of their principal problems is that Van Persie is playing less and scoring less. Must have won quite a few matches last season with Van Persie goals late on in games. Same problem for Spurs I think, Baled (??) out late on a few times.

[RobM]

I really don't think Utd are the biggest club on the planet any more. Real Madrid and Barcelona are ahead of them in almost every measurable way. Those two clubs have also proven they have the structure, leadership and quality of players to not only survive a change in manager, but often improve as a result of it.

 

However, let's be realistic, there will always be players coming through our academy that wan't to play for clubs like them, Chelsea, Arsenal etc regardless of where we are in the league. This won't change overnight, but might change in a few years if we've had sustained success at the highest level.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

haven't studied their apparent demise much but it would seem to me that one of their principal problems is that Van Persie is playing less and scoring less. Must have won quite a few matches last season with Van Persie goals late on in games. Same problem for Spurs I think, Baled (??) out late on a few times.

 

Being kept out of the team by Rooney - who has been brilliant this season. They'd be much worse off this season if it wasn't for him, same as RVP last season.

 

Saw a stat too that Carrick has missed the last 4 games - in which Utd have 4 points.

 

As widely mocked as it was at the time. Is their midfield really much better than ours? I don't think it's so stupid a question to pose. It is probably our strongest area on the pitch, whilst Utd's midfield is easily their weakest position, and it is widely acknowledged this area needs addressing. They are aware of this too, hence chasing Cesc, Herrera etc all summer.

[eelpie]

I think his point is proved with Shearer Bale Bridge Walcott and OXO

 

I wonder which of our current young players will move which I am sure they will if they want to win trophies

 

This season we are still building our squad. Next year will be our trophy season.

[Barry Sanchez]

I really don't think Utd are the biggest club on the planet any more. Real Madrid and Barcelona are ahead of them in almost every measurable way. Those two clubs have also proven they have the structure, leadership and quality of players to not only survive a change in manager, but often improve as a result of it.

 

However, let's be realistic, there will always be players coming through our academy that wan't to play for clubs like them, Chelsea, Arsenal etc regardless of where we are in the league. This won't change overnight, but might change in a few years if we've had sustained success at the highest level.

 

Define sustained success and how will we acheive it?

[disconnect]

As someone else posted, hopefully Utd not being at the top will mean some of their super overrated players (Welbeck and Cleverley especially), are nowhere near the England squad.

 

With regards to our players, I cant see Lallana leaving.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Maybe Shaw would go, but there's no reason for him to be in a rush. This isn't the club Walcott and Bale left. He's playing in the top flight every week, in an improving team with lots of people he has known a long time. He's probably as aware as anyone how much the squad can improve.

 

But if there was a crazy offer and we did sell, it's not the end of the world. We're showing the academy is a great way forward and that continues even if you do lose someone. Hopefully it'll reach a position that no-one would want to leave. Shaw could stay 5 years and still be a young player commanding a huge fee if he wants. I think he'll be in the England squad every time after the world cup anyway.

 

If Man Utd wanted to improve, it's our central midfield they need. There was a thread suggesting our options were better than theirs before the season, which was scoffed at by those who tend to react in similar discussion killing way to all threads (before ironically claiming they're not allowed to say anything negative). Man Utd really do lack a CM partnership though. Cleverley is an extremely average player, who might do alright with time elsewhere, but he's far from good enough for them. They have no real strong defensive midfielder like Cork or Wanyama, and while Carrick is similar to Schneiderlin in many ways, IMO he's not as good, and a lot more injury prone. A similar problem to England, who rely on an out of position Gerrard who'd be much more effective in front of 2 CMs.

 

We're seeing more and more than time playing together and partnerships in CM and CB are more important than anything else. Far better players are outperformed this way and it's evident every week. Man City buy expensive CBs, yet it changes so often they can look clueless. I think Moyes had success at Everton that way, knowing his team, knowing the partnerships. MU now still have a lot of good players, but no coherent team. And again like England, they have too many wingers who'll get their head down and run, normally losing possession, which isn't the way to success anymore. Some get impatient with Saints, some cry out for fast wingers and some still even 442. More problems mirrored with England and the praise for players like Townsend who lose the ball the vast majority of the time. Lallana rarely does, he's a possession footballer but it seems England fans aren't ready for that, let alone some of the other players. He's another one who could do a lot of good at Old Trafford, a proper team player unlike Nani or Young.

 

I hope MU keep up their current form, and to be honest I think they will with that midfield. Every away game is a potential slip up, and now home games look nervous too. I think they could well come outside the top 6 at this rate. I'd go with 6th though. What will that mean for Welbeck, Cleverley and Smalling in terms of England though? 3 players I'd rather not be near the team but seem to be relied on.

 

I agree in parts.

 

I think Utd have a good side, save their midfield. It just lacks quality (especially for the level they should be at). Last season they won the league at a canter, so they can't be awful - but I think that was largely down to have two absolutely top-draw players up front that could dig them out of holes.

 

Upfront, they are scary. Rooney, however fashionable it is to knock him now, is simply world-class. He has been proving that this season - as I said above, they would be much worse off this season if it wern't for him. RVP, obviously top-drawer. Hasn't had a great start to this season, but still quality. Then Chicarito, who is a great back-up option. Not totally sold on Welbeck yet, he just doesn't score, or even look like scoring anywhere near enough for a striker. But yeah, very strong front line.

 

Defensively, they are pretty strong - certainly in the middle. Jones & Smalling are good defenders, but shouldn't really be playing full-backs for me.

 

De Gea - wobbly start, understandable for a 20 year-old keeper after a £20m move to a foreign country, but yeah the lad is quality. Will be one of the top keepers in the world in a few years time.

 

It's just the midfield that is lacking for me.

 

They have wingers, which are pretty obsolete in the modern game. Nani, good player when he wants to be, but painfully inconsistent. Far too often just head down, runs into someone or just launches a wild cross/shot. Young, don't know what happened to him. Start off flying at Utd, now something of a forgotten man. Valencia, I like him, solid and hard-working player but is he really top-quality? Debatable.

 

In the middle, they are pretty reliant on Carrick. Good player, vastly under-rated in his career imo but let's face it, he ain't Xavi is he?

Fellaini, another painfully inconsistent performer - who can be an absolute liability with his thuggish outbursts. Probably better player slightly further forward off the striker anyway - but Utd already have the dilemma of fitting Rooney & RVP in the team, and Marouane certainly doesn't offer as much as them.

Cleverly, as said, painfully average. I don't get him. What does he offer? He's not particularly offensive - he doesn't create a great deal, or score many. Yet he is hardly going to shield the defence either.

Anderson, is he actually a footballer? £24m, and christ people moan about our transfers?! (Yes obviously Sir Alex got a lot right, but this was a massive miss).

Fletcher, obviously it's horrible he has been so unwell you don't wish that on anyone, but this has been ongoing for a while and he hasn't exactly been there to call upon. Industrious player, box-to-box non-stop (when fit) but again, is he likely to open a team up?

Kagawa, I actually like this guy. He does seem lively, and when I have seen Utd with him (which isn't often) they look more dangerous, but Moyes just doesn't seem to fancy him.

Giggs, on the pitch the guy is an undisputed legend. Still can change a game, but unsurprisingly for a 40 year old is pretty pedestrian, which is very unsuited to the pace and physicality of the premiership.

 

I honestly cannot pick a pairing out of that, I'd take over Big Vic & Morgan.

 

I think they are a better side, mostly due to having 2 world-class strikers that can win any game for anyone, a solid defence (though too many cbs and not enough fbs) and a very, very good keeper (I'd take him over Boruc if I'm honest). They will probably finish above us, but I don't think it is stupid to suggest that one could make a favourable comparison between our midfield and theirs. Granted, a couple of decent signings in that department on their part and that could all change - if that happened they would be a very, very good side imo.

[Miltonaggro]

Maybe Shaw would go, but there's no reason for him to be in a rush. This isn't the club Walcott and Bale left. He's playing in the top flight every week, in an improving team with lots of people he has known a long time. He's probably as aware as anyone how much the squad can improve.

 

But if there was a crazy offer and we did sell, it's not the end of the world. We're showing the academy is a great way forward and that continues even if you do lose someone. Hopefully it'll reach a position that no-one would want to leave. Shaw could stay 5 years and still be a young player commanding a huge fee if he wants. I think he'll be in the England squad every time after the world cup anyway.

 

If Man Utd wanted to improve, it's our central midfield they need. There was a thread suggesting our options were better than theirs before the season, which was scoffed at by those who tend to react in similar discussion killing way to all threads (before ironically claiming they're not allowed to say anything negative). Man Utd really do lack a CM partnership though. Cleverley is an extremely average player, who might do alright with time elsewhere, but he's far from good enough for them. They have no real strong defensive midfielder like Cork or Wanyama, and while Carrick is similar to Schneiderlin in many ways, IMO he's not as good, and a lot more injury prone. A similar problem to England, who rely on an out of position Gerrard who'd be much more effective in front of 2 CMs.

 

We're seeing more and more than time playing together and partnerships in CM and CB are more important than anything else. Far better players are outperformed this way and it's evident every week. Man City buy expensive CBs, yet it changes so often they can look clueless. I think Moyes had success at Everton that way, knowing his team, knowing the partnerships. MU now still have a lot of good players, but no coherent team. And again like England, they have too many wingers who'll get their head down and run, normally losing possession, which isn't the way to success anymore. Some get impatient with Saints, some cry out for fast wingers and some still even 442. More problems mirrored with England and the praise for players like Townsend who lose the ball the vast majority of the time. Lallana rarely does, he's a possession footballer but it seems England fans aren't ready for that, let alone some of the other players. He's another one who could do a lot of good at Old Trafford, a proper team player unlike Nani or Young.

 

I hope MU keep up their current form, and to be honest I think they will with that midfield. Every away game is a potential slip up, and now home games look nervous too. I think they could well come outside the top 6 at this rate. I'd go with 6th though. What will that mean for Welbeck, Cleverley and Smalling in terms of England though? 3 players I'd rather not be near the team but seem to be relied on.

 

 

Good post which raises some interesting points. If we do lose a top young player before we are 'ready' it will be for a record fee and the fee will be reinvested. There are a lot of people who get hard ons when the likes of United or Chelsea are mentioned, and even the 2008 League Cup winners, Spurs. Saints are perhaps four players away from having a squad that can seriously challenge in the top quarter of the Premier League, rejoice in that and f*ck the uncontrollables (which includes 'cap doffing' and 'auto-reverence' to 'big' clubs)...

[adrian lord]

SAF was neglectful of the ManU squad development in recent years and has left Moyes a classic poisoned chalice.

 

While I have some sympathy for Moyes, I must say I thoroughly enjoy seeing the misery etched on the faces of Utd's once-cocky fans nowadays.

[UpweySaint]

Some good points.

 

I think a great deal of it comes down to having a style of play. We know how we play and it is taught through the academy. Given time I imagine Moyes will sort them out and build a team he wants playing his way. Just look at some of the football Everton played last year without the massive resources (albeit with less pressure!).

 

Perhaps a little cheeky of Savage but always nice to get plaudits and I am shocked to say I think Utd could learn a lot from the way we do things!

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Some good points.

 

I think a great deal of it comes down to having a style of play. We know how we play and it is taught through the academy. Given time I imagine Moyes will sort them out and build a team he wants playing his way. Just look at some of the football Everton played last year without the massive resources (albeit with less pressure!).

 

Perhaps a little cheeky of Savage but always nice to get plaudits and I am shocked to say I think Utd could learn a lot from the way we do things!

 

Lol, remember last season when the usual wombles were in hysterics at the whole - "having a system imposed" blah blah nonsense.

 

All that noise has gone a bit quiet now, hasn't it?

[UpweySaint]

Lol, remember last season when the usual wombles were in hysterics at the whole - "having a system imposed" blah blah nonsense.

 

All that noise has gone a bit quiet now, hasn't it?

 

 

I will admit I've been sceptical about a lot of the top down management and called for more pragmatism but sometimes we have to concede we were wrong and others know best. I hope people keep some faith though with the way we are doing things even if we have a blip! The way the academy boys have looked so seamless on coming into the first team is proof enough for me we're doing plenty right!

[Whitey Grandad]

SAF was neglectful of the ManU squad development in recent years and has left Moyes a classic poisoned chalice.

 

While I have some sympathy for Moyes, I must say I thoroughly enjoy seeing the misery etched on the faces of Utd's once-cocky fans nowadays.

 

Maybe he eased back when he thought he was retiring but then came back for a last big payday. Like you I have no sympathy for the fans. Now it's time for then to feel our pain. We shall know that the tide has finally turned when other teams start to get the benefit of the decisions at Old Trafford. Beating them 3-0 at St. Mary's to snatch 4th place from them on May 11th would be a nice end to the season

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I will admit I've been sceptical about a lot of the top down management and called for more pragmatism but sometimes we have to concede we were wrong and others know best. I hope people keep some faith though with the way we are doing things even if we have a blip! The way the academy boys have looked so seamless on coming into the first team is proof enough for me we're doing plenty right!

 

Oops, sorry pal. Fair play though.

 

Just seems common sense to me - it's obviously going to be easier for kids to adapt if they are able to slot into the same system in the same position. No coincidence that teams such a Barcelona do this, and are able to build a team of academy products!

[UpweySaint]

Oops, sorry pal. Fair play though.

 

Just seems common sense to me - it's obviously going to be easier for kids to adapt if they are able to slot into the same system in the same position. No coincidence that teams such a Barcelona do this, and are able to build a team of academy products!

 

No worries! All have to be wrong now and then.

 

Common sense yes but it is still relatively new to the English game, I remember a few years back people were baffled by the Europeanisation with directors of football becoming commonplace!

 

Now it does seem baffling that one man should be in charge of the first team and all it's dealings without more background planning going on.

[LainPain]

De Gea

Jones

Rooney

van Persie

Hernadez

Carrick

Kagawa

Vidic

Zaha

Januzaj

Felliani

 

Of the top of my head, I do hope you are joking.

 

Especially as Rooney is probably the best player in the EPL. Amazing that people that preach that Savage is ignorant when the general football knowledge on this forum is laughable.

[AussieDog]

We WILL sell players (maybe not in January) - but when we do, it will be on OUR terms. Everyone has a price.

If you think about it, there's no point in grooming the academy players if they aren't going to get a chance. Of course they need to be good enough, but if the management think we can sell someone for 30 million, and replace him with someone at half the price or someone from the Academy close to his ability with the potential to be as good or if not better, then it's simple economics that we would do it. It's a balancing act. If we want to entice the best youngsters to our club we have to ensure the path to the first team remains open.

[farawaysaint]

Especially as Rooney is probably the best player in the EPL. Amazing that people that preach that Savage is ignorant when the general football knowledge on this forum is laughable.

 

Suarez just chuckled a little at that comment.