CB Fry Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 well. The club thought it was right. like I said, no one can win this arguement. We were told dumping the cup would help our league form. It hasn't. End of argument.
Batman Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 We could have won the cup and stayed where we were too. we could have won the league had we gone out 1st round
Turkish Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 we could have won the league had we gone out 1st round we could have won the double
CB Fry Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 We could have won the cup and stayed where we were too. You forget Wigan. Cup win = certain relegation. Don't you know anything?
Saint86 Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 The thing is, I said this was coming 2 weeks ago. And duncan RG just ripped into me as a bed wetter. How long can you do double training sessions and play the same 13players week in week out with this intensive style of play and not get injuries. To compound this, the utter lack of squad rotation means players like cork and yoshida, who were regulars last season, now have had no game time, and are making mistakes. I described this as MoPo's biggest weakness, he had the same issues at espanyol regarding fatigue and player fitness... Its also interesting because we had comparitely very good runs with injuries under Adkins... eg. Morgan who was essentially uninjured for 2.5 years... I like the way we're playing and the clubs philosphy, and i like MoPo.. I think he is a good manager who makes good tactical decisions to affect games as well. However, a not insiginifant part of me wonders what Nigel Adkins would have achieved with this squad, and we certainly wouldnt have had these injuries with him in charge. I accept that it is unlikely we would have landed osvaldo... but Lovren was signed by NC and the comittee, as was wanyama. The "gash" as so many people have named him, would also be getting more game time, and Lambert would be doing better...
Lets B Avenue Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 The thing is, I said this was coming 2 weeks ago. And duncan RG just ripped into me as a bed wetter. How long can you do double training sessions and play the same 13players week in week out with this intensive style of play and not get injuries. To compound this, the utter lack of squad rotation means players like cork and yoshida, who were regulars last season, now have had no game time, and are making mistakes. I described this as MoPo's biggest weakness, he had the same issues at espanyol regarding fatigue and player fitness... Its also interesting because we had comparitely very good runs with injuries under Adkins... eg. Morgan who was essentially uninjured for 2.5 years... I like the way we're playing and the clubs philosphy, and i like MoPo.. I think he is a good manager who makes good tactical decisions to affect games as well. However, a not insiginifant part of me wonders what Nigel Adkins would have achieved with this squad, and we certainly wouldnt have had these injuries with him in charge. I accept that it is unlikely we would have landed osvaldo... but Lovren was signed by NC and the comittee, as was wanyama. The "gash" as so many people have named him, would also be getting more game time, and Lambert would be doing better... So Big Vic colliding with the keeper and Boruc with the post, was down to extra training. You learn something new on here every day.
Olallana Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 The thing is, I said this was coming 2 weeks ago. And duncan RG just ripped into me as a bed wetter. How long can you do double training sessions and play the same 13players week in week out with this intensive style of play and not get injuries. To compound this, the utter lack of squad rotation means players like cork and yoshida, who were regulars last season, now have had no game time, and are making mistakes. I described this as MoPo's biggest weakness, he had the same issues at espanyol regarding fatigue and player fitness... Its also interesting because we had comparitely very good runs with injuries under Adkins... eg. Morgan who was essentially uninjured for 2.5 years... I like the way we're playing and the clubs philosphy, and i like MoPo.. I think he is a good manager who makes good tactical decisions to affect games as well. However, a not insiginifant part of me wonders what Nigel Adkins would have achieved with this squad, and we certainly wouldnt have had these injuries with him in charge. I accept that it is unlikely we would have landed osvaldo... but Lovren was signed by NC and the comittee, as was wanyama. The "gash" as so many people have named him, would also be getting more game time, and Lambert would be doing better... Just wondering, if they were rotated into the team in games previous than wednesday they would not make any mistakes in those games and also not on wednesday? We rotated this wednesday, admittedly by force, and imo that showed why we wont rotate unless we have to.
SNSUN Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Awww what crappy news is this? No Wanyama? No Morgan? Our entire defensive midfield ripped from our line up. Sure we have cover in the shapes of Cork, Davis, JWP and Reed but they're not in the class of Morgan/Victor. They'll be a massive loss. No Clyne is a loss too, now we truly get to see what Chambers has to offer. No Boruc for a couple of months too - that's a massive loss when you look at what we have instead of him. How long's Fonte out for? I never thought we'd be so keen to get him back in the first team!
Horley CTFC Saint Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 ****. This is the worst injury crisis I can remember in years. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2519008/Southampton-injury-problems-deepen-Victor-Wanyama-ruled-weeks.html Yep - since about 2005 I reckon.........
Barry Sanchez Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 the resting them against sunderland has no right or wrong answer. no one will say they were wrong. the club clearly had a policy that the league cup was no.4 and a way to get the younger players a chance.....rightly or wrongly Out of the Cup and slipping down the League I would say unless planned it is wrong unless I am missing something, this cant be spun, its a mistake or over optmism in the abilty of our 1st team or naivety in the fact we wont get injuries.
NickG Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Not sure how two bone injuries in games are due to over training??? Maybe there are negatives of MP's methods....the alternative? Easier training / less pressing? Wonder where we would be? People moan that GR is waste of money as is parasite, feel sorry for Cork and suggest he leaves...how many quality players can saints keep happy in squad just in case injury crisis? MS is immense for us, ability, work rate, reliability, awareness etc...Cork, Davis etc good players but big step down. Don't think Villa would have had look in (well hardly did!) If either VW or MS were there. If Fonte is recovered we still compare with last season - lost Boruc / MS but added Lovren, Osvaldo plus JayRod, Lallana improved. Is Clyne definitely out? Chambers kept him out of side so will be missed but not disaster. Man C if perform can beat whoever we put out.. But still chance with this team but less hopeful Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
benjii Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Shame if he's injured but CM is probably our strongest area in terms of quality in depth so it's not the end of the world. An injury to Clyne, Lallana, Shaw, Lovren or Boruc is worse news. Sadly it seems Clyne and Boruc are also injured!
Whitey Grandad Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 We were told dumping the cup would help our league form. It hasn't. End of argument. How do you know it hasn't?
Whitey Grandad Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 You can get cream for that. Or is it a special kind of bubble gum?
adrian lord Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Could easily go into free-fall between now and the end of Jan. I hope MPo can muster some Churchillian team talks through his interpreter, cos it's gonna need a triumph of sheer will, in the absence of much talent, against terrible odds not to see us in the mire by the end of February.
lloydie Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Could easily go into free-fall between now and the end of Jan. I hope MPo can muster some Churchillian team talks through his interpreter, cos it's gonna need a triumph of sheer will, in the absence of much talent, against terrible odds not to see us in the mire by the end of February. Just in case you start feeling more depressed pal: 08457 2090 2090 2090
Glasgow_Saint Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 The last 3 games and next few mopo has had to manage a squad similar to the one adkins had......... So far, not so good
lloydie Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Just in case you start feeling more depressed pal: 08457 90 90 90 edit (stupid phone) takes the punch (if there even was any) out of that remark slightly
CB Fry Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 How do you know it hasn't? What, apart from our recent form and current league position vs pre-Sunderland, you mean? Remember, these are facts, not speculation.
Olallana Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 What, apart from our recent form and current league position vs pre-Sunderland, you mean? Remember, these are facts, not speculation. Game schedule has no influence? We have had one bad result despite an actually v. good performance.
trousers Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 What, apart from our recent form and current league position vs pre-Sunderland, you mean? I think he may be suggesting that our form could have been even worse over that period than it has been.
Whitey Grandad Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 I think he may be suggesting that our form could have been even worse over that period than it has been. Quite so. We can speculate all we like but we shall never know what difference putting out a full first team would have made. It could be that our league position would have been worse.
Shanghai Saint Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 If Chambers does not impress you there is really not much hope. He was brilliant early in the season Which is clearly why Fonteyn replaced Clyne when he was injured... ...
Wrensup Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 The last 3 games and next few mopo has had to manage a squad similar to the one adkins had......... So far, not so good What are you on about. He had to manage the same squad as Adkins last season and did well.
Glasgow_Saint Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 What are you on about. He had to manage the same squad as Adkins last season and did well. He took over a team which was on a good run and confident but his record last season was no better than adkins. The test of mopos real merit has been the last 3 and the next 6 imho. When it gets tough you really get to see what a manager is made of
Turkish Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Not sure how two bone injuries in games are due to over training??? Maybe there are negatives of MP's methods....the alternative? Easier training / less pressing? Wonder where we would be? People moan that GR is waste of money as is parasite, feel sorry for Cork and suggest he leaves...how many quality players can saints keep happy in squad just in case injury crisis? MS is immense for us, ability, work rate, reliability, awareness etc...Cork, Davis etc good players but big step down. Don't think Villa would have had look in (well hardly did!) If either VW or MS were there. If Fonte is recovered we still compare with last season - lost Boruc / MS but added Lovren, Osvaldo plus JayRod, Lallana improved. Is Clyne definitely out? Chambers kept him out of side so will be missed but not disaster. Man C if perform can beat whoever we put out.. But still chance with this team but less hopeful Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk At least 6th but settling for 11th, surely?
Avenue Saint Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 The last 3 games and next few mopo has had to manage a squad similar to the one adkins had......... So far, not so good Does someone put physical money in your pocket for all the ****e you chat on here glasgow? Please tell!
Bucks Saint Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Quite so. We can speculate all we like but we shall never know what difference putting out a full first team would have made. It could be that our league position would have been worse. We should petition the FA now, that we be allowed to pull out of the FA Cup immediately
trousers Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 We should petition the FA now, that we be allowed to pull out of the FA Cup immediately *bites* Why pull out of the cup when it's a great opportunity to play fringe players and expose the development squad to first team action?
Glasgow_Saint Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 *bites* Why pull out of the cup when it's a great opportunity to play fringe players and expose the development squad to first team action? Thats what the teams in the chmpions leage or advance stages of eufa do....... not teams that finish 14th we are acting like one of the big clubs, but weve done nothing and won nothing
trousers Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Thats what the teams in the chmpions leage or advance stages of eufa do....... It's also what teams who want to fast-track players from the development and academy squads do...........................
Glasgow_Saint Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 It's also what teams who want to fast-track players from the development and academy squads do........................... but thats not what we have done - in the league cup we played Chambers and Reed and the rest were squad players.
Hamilton Saint Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 As reveled by me yesterday evening. Another Turkish exclusive! You mean this, don't you? 'As revelled in by me yesterday evening'.
richard Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 This is a great thread about Victor Wanyama being sidelined, really glad I read it and now know all about his injury and when he will be back
Bucks Saint Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 *bites* Why pull out of the cup when it's a great opportunity to play fringe players and expose the development squad to first team action? **reeling you in**. Not at all - unlike the league cup you do at least get some league game free weekends in the later rounds. And I loved 2003
Saint86 Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 So Big Vic colliding with the keeper and Boruc with the post, was down to extra training. You learn something new on here every day. Talk about selective injuries. Did clyne also run into a post. What about all the other various ins and outs we've had in recent weeks or early substitutions to combat fatigue. There is no smoke without fire and if you over work the body you pick up niggles.
Batman Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Talk about selective injuries. Did clyne also run into a post. What about all the other various ins and outs we've had in recent weeks or early substitutions to combat fatigue. There is no smoke without fire and if you over work the body you pick up niggles. if I am mistaken, every single team has picked up niggles this season
JustinR Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Talk about selective injuries. Did clyne also run into a post. What about all the other various ins and outs we've had in recent weeks or early substitutions to combat fatigue. There is no smoke without fire and if you over work the body you pick up niggles. I'm no expert but I think we've a fairly decent medical/ sports science department, which probably constantly analyses fatigue levels. I doubt players are even allowed to play if they are in the injury danger zones. Morgan said as much in an interview recently, less injuries than he's ever had.
Bearsy Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Morgan said as much in an interview recently, less injuries than he's ever had. thus angering the gods of crock
Lets B Avenue Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 thus angering the gods of crock ?? How did you do in that spelling test yesterday?
Olallana Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Talk about selective injuries. Did clyne also run into a post. What about all the other various ins and outs we've had in recent weeks or early substitutions to combat fatigue. There is no smoke without fire and if you over work the body you pick up niggles. But how is it that other teams that dont use our system pick up injuries also then?
Turkish Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Well the training program is being amended to include more rest time and less double sessions so perhaps it is taking it's toll.
Bearsy Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 ?? How did you do in that spelling test yesterday? i dunno what you mean! If it's any help one way to avoid angering the gods of cock, is to touch wood
david in sweden Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 ****. This is the worst injury crisis I can remember in years. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2519008/Southampton-injury-problems-deepen-Victor-Wanyama-ruled-weeks.html ........sometime before we were relegated (pre-2005).......we had SIX defenders injured and finally utilised a Northern Irish lad called Chris Baird ........think he ended up as a candidate for Player of the season and was promptly sold to Fulham for £3 million.......
CB Fry Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 (edited) ........sometime before we were relegated (pre-2005).......we had SIX defenders injured and finally utilised a Northern Irish lad called Chris Baird ........think he ended up as a candidate for Player of the season and was promptly sold to Fulham for £3 million....... Define "promptly". Edit: just looked it up and happy to confirm total appearances by Chris Bard in our relegation season: zero. Not even one in the cups. David, if Hollywood ever makes "The Chris Baird Story" then they probably will go with your version. Edited 6 December, 2013 by CB Fry
Glasgow_Saint Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 Well the training program is being amended to include more rest time and less double sessions so perhaps it is taking it's toll. or the message is sinking in? Seen a few club managers talk about it this season and last and they all talk about how demanding our style is and how you need a big squad (ala Barcelona) before even contemplating such tactics week i week out. mopo is a young and developing coach so i guess you have to make some allowances and allow him to learn from mistakes question is - does he know any other way of playing?
Special K Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 or the message is sinking in? Seen a few club managers talk about it this season and last and they all talk about how demanding our style is and how you need a big squad (ala Barcelona) before even contemplating such tactics week i week out. mopo is a young and developing coach so i guess you have to make some allowances and allow him to learn from mistakes question is - does he know any other way of playing? Hopefully he knows that there is a better than even chance of being found out in games now, so he's adapting to suit with a "plan b" strategy. We will see over the coming weeks I guess. Also it could be a seasonal thing. Too much training in the winter can be detrimental to the mental health too. Well it is for me anyway! Really looking forward to the next few games to see how the fringe players perform. The best motivation to the regular first teamers is to know that there is a fringe player more than filling their shoes and I think we've been a little too settled recently with the team selection. Not a criticism, more of an observation.
OldNick Posted 6 December, 2013 Posted 6 December, 2013 What, apart from our recent form and current league position vs pre-Sunderland, you mean? Remember, these are facts, not speculation.[/quote). During the debate regarding the cup game it was pointed out Hull being in a similar position to us at that time a few seasons back and just avoided relegation . Whilst I do not expect to get relegated just yet, Iam realistic enough to accept our squad is not deep enough and with enough quality to fight on 2 cup runs and the league. I have put 2cup runs as of course if you expect to put your best side out in the League cup you would also have to do so In the FA cup. Even without the injuries would you expect us to be able to cope with that?
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