What we are missing...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Seems to be goals and creativity to match our dominance. And in relation to this, it seems we are missing Gaston Ramirez.

 

In the 25 games he was involved in last season and this season we have averaged 1.4 goals per game.

In the 27 games he has not been involved in, we have averaged 1.18 goals per game.

 

It definitely seems to me that he is the missing link, and that we should look at bringing him back in, not getting rid as some of the unenlightened on the board believe.

[Barry Sanchez]

Pace, an outlet. A system that opens up play and creates opportunities for our forwards, just because its not working it does not mean we go back to something that did not work ie Ramirez.

Pride swallowed and purchase a winger, sell Ramirez, buy a CAM as well, and start looking at options for a keeper.

[Delboy Dave]

How many other stats back up the return of Gaston

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Pace, an outlet. A system that opens up play and creates opportunities for our forwards, just because its not working it does not mean we go back to something that did not work ie Ramirez.

Pride swallowed and purchase a winger, sell Ramirez, buy a CAM as well, and start looking at options for a keeper.

 

But why when the solution is Ramirez, and we have him?

[Barry Sanchez]

But why when the solution is Ramirez, and we have him?

 

Because you dont turn to something thats failed after repeated attempts to save you. He has been a failure, its as simple as that, what does that say to the others? Fail lads, be crap and you will still get picked.

He's gone.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Because you dont turn to something thats failed after repeated attempts to save you. He has been a failure, its as simple as that, what does that say to the others? Fail lads, be crap and you will still get picked.

He's gone.

 

But it hasn't failed. Not at all. He hasn't been amazing, but we scored more goals per game when he played.

 

Tell me how the Boruc experiment started...and how it finished when we went back.

[Solid Saint]

Pace, an outlet. A system that opens up play and creates opportunities for our forwards, just because its not working it does not mean we go back to something that did not work ie Ramirez.

Pride swallowed and purchase a winger, sell Ramirez, buy a CAM as well, and start looking at options for a keeper.

 

I wouldn't be against something like this.

 

Pace is so important in this league, more so than in others. Hence the top clubs having several pace merchants on their books.

[Wiggles31]

There is poor creativity in the middle of the park. Yesterday 77% possession and never got behind the back 4 once. No one can see that deadly through ball. Maybe Ramirez can be that player but I am not convinced sadly.

[shurlock]

Seems to be goals and creativity to match our dominance. And in relation to this, it seems we are missing Gaston Ramirez.

 

In the 25 games he was involved in last season and this season we have averaged 1.4 goals per game.

In the 27 games he has not been involved in, we have averaged 1.18 goals per game.

 

It definitely seems to me that he is the missing link, and that we should look at bringing him back in, not getting rid as some of the unenlightened on the board believe.

 

Of course, it may have nothing to do with Gaston. Most of his appearances coincided with Adkins tenure and he played a decidedly more open game than MP, for better or worse. A better, if still crude test would be to look at the goals scored when Gaston was in the team under MP.

[alpine_saint]

Because you dont turn to something thats failed after repeated attempts to save you. He has been a failure, its as simple as that, what does that say to the others? Fail lads, be crap and you will still get picked.

He's gone.

 

This.

 

After 18 months of country-before-club, being paid at the rate of 120 STs per week, persistent underachievement (when available, mind), and the odd fancy flourish or goal against cack League 1/2 opposition in the dont-give-a-sh*t rounds of the Carling Cup, we are really, trully f**ked if an element of our fan base see him as some magical Band-Aid.

[Solid Saint]

There is poor creativity in the middle of the park. Yesterday 77% possession and never got behind the back 4 once. No one can see that deadly through ball. Maybe Ramirez can be that player but I am not convinced sadly.

 

We were/are so much more threatening when getting the ball out wide and crossing it in (playing to our strengths). One of the problems we have of playing such a condensed, narrow pressing game is that you are also forced to play in that manner, almost a tic-a-tack system straight through the middle.

 

Without the talents of Messi, Iniesta et al, that deadly through ball can be a long time coming...

[Barry Sanchez]

But it hasn't failed. Not at all. He hasn't been amazing, but we scored more goals per game when he played.

 

Tell me how the Boruc experiment started...and how it finished when we went back.

 

Boruc is a keeper and did it for other clubs, the debate is now not whether Gaston will do it it is was he a flash in the pan for others? Thats a genuine question, his fall is that bad.

[Barry Sanchez]

Exactly the high game of pressing and poissession is great for Iniesta, Messi and Pedro etc etc but its a tad different in a different culture of football and calibre of players, Arsenal have possession football as they have the quality of player to retain the ball, its very open to debate whether we do, I dont but thats only my opinion.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Boruc is a keeper and did it for other clubs, the debate is now not whether Gaston will do it it is was he a flash in the pan for others? Thats a genuine question, his fall is that bad.

 

Being a keeper makes no difference, that's a moot point.

 

Gaston has done it for other clubs (notably Bologna), and will continue to do it in future for other clubs if he doesn't get his chance here.

[Whitey Grandad]

You may be right, we scored more but don't forget that we also conceded more.

[Sour Mash]

Seems to be goals and creativity to match our dominance. And in relation to this, it seems we are missing Gaston Ramirez.

 

In the 25 games he was involved in last season and this season we have averaged 1.4 goals per game.

In the 27 games he has not been involved in, we have averaged 1.18 goals per game.

 

It definitely seems to me that he is the missing link, and that we should look at bringing him back in, not getting rid as some of the unenlightened on the board believe.

The problem is that MP doesn't seem to rate/trust him. We do need someone with his sort of creative abilities though, just not sure if MP is too cautious at times?

[egg]

Gaston has done it for other clubs (notably Bologna), and will continue to do it in future for other clubs if he doesn't get his chance here.

 

Correct. He's also done it for Uruguay where he has the intelligent pacy runs of Suarez and others to link up with. He just doesn't have that here and as a result can look ineffective.

 

I agree with Barry though that we lack pace and/or an outlet. That's a bigger problem than a lack of creativity in the middle or the hole. At the moment a creative player doesn't have anyone to really create to and as a result we faff about with the ball in or around the box.

[alpine_saint]

Correct. He's also done it for Uruguay where he has the intelligent pacy runs of Suarez and others to link up with. He just doesn't have that here and as a result can look ineffective.

 

I agree with Barry though that we lack pace and/or an outlet. That's a bigger problem than a lack of creativity in the middle or the hole. At the moment a creative player doesn't have anyone to really create to and as a result we faff about with the ball in or around the box.

 

AKA, Everybody Else's Fault.......

[Suhari]

We were/are so much more threatening when getting the ball out wide and crossing it in (playing to our strengths). One of the problems we have of playing such a condensed, narrow pressing game is that you are also forced to play in that manner, almost a tic-a-tack system straight through the middle.

 

Without the talents of Messi, Iniesta et al, that deadly through ball can be a long time coming...

 

That's the thing isn't it though. Getting it wide and slinging it into the box won't help us progress; too easy for teams to defend - unless we get wide and round the back of the full back and cross/pull back. But we don't have the pace for this.

 

Last night we we getting it wide and aiming hopeful crosses in. Worked in L1 and the Championship, but in the Prem it's a waste of effort. We need more incisive runs, diagonal through balls etc.

 

Gaston has the skills we need in our CM....he is the only player in the past couple of seasons to provide that inventive spark when we are tight in the final third; but is clearly lacking something (desire/effort/fitness?) and I don't see that changing with him unfortunately.

 

Right now we are so predictable as an attacking force.

 

The solution? £10M spend in January on someone like Coutinho or Banegra, and perhaps bring in a Lennon-type too. At least we'll have options then.

[Smirking_Saint]

Pace, an outlet. A system that opens up play and creates opportunities for our forwards, just because its not working it does not mean we go back to something that did not work ie Ramirez.

Pride swallowed and purchase a winger, sell Ramirez, buy a CAM as well, and start looking at options for a keeper.

 

Why would we change our way of play which apart from the last three games is very successful ? If it wasnt for some **** poor (unusually) organisation against Villa and possibly Boruc against arsenal we wouldnt even be discussing things ?

 

If we change our gameplan we open up, and look how that went at the start of last year.

 

Keep what we are doing, give Ossie more time, try and get Ramirez fit and we will be ok.

[Bucks Saint]

The lack of a different plan worries me most - and for that, the most obvious solution (though not the only one) is pace. We saw what a very limited Villa side did to us and pace was a key factor. Yes, great finishing helps but we dont have anyone that can offer genuine pace, from the bench or otherwise.

[Bearsy]

The lack of a different plan worries me most - and for that, the most obvious solution (though not the only one) is pace. We saw what a very limited Villa side did to us and pace was a key factor. Yes, great finishing helps but we dont have anyone that can offer genuine pace, from the bench or otherwise.

 

Pace is most useful when you've got loads of space to run into, i.e. if you're sat back in your own half + attacking on the break. Dunno if it is essential to break down a team sitting deep. I would of thought you'd more need SKILLZ.

[Smirking_Saint]

We were/are so much more threatening when getting the ball out wide and crossing it in (playing to our strengths). One of the problems we have of playing such a condensed, narrow pressing game is that you are also forced to play in that manner, almost a tic-a-tack system straight through the middle.

 

Without the talents of Messi, Iniesta et al, that deadly through ball can be a long time coming...

 

Its pretty much this, opposition teams know that we play very narrow and slowly build things up. Villa played a similar game to sunderland earlier in the season, play direct balls with quick breaks but get as many bodies behind the ball once we have it and suck the space out of the middle of the pitch. They played 5 at the back which allowed bodies in the middle but allowed the full backs to occupy ours which is where our 'width' comes from.

 

Osvaldo is the man we need up top to provide mobility for orward balls but he isnt on his game yet. Lambert slows things down too much and isnt mobile enough to play up top alone.

 

Perhaps we need to get a bit quicker and take more risks, change the tempo at times. We play a bit like Barca in the fact that we take few risks and win the ball back quickly when lost effectively stopping the other team playing, problem is we dont create enough at all as we dont have their players.

 

I would say change the tempo every now and again to catch teams off guard

[Bucks Saint]

Pace is most useful when you've got loads of space to run into, i.e. if you're sat back in your own half + attacking on the break. Dunno if it is essential to break down a team sitting deep. I would of thought you'd more need SKILLZ.

 

Yes agreed but it is also very helpful for going past players and getting into positions behind them. We have very few players who can do this, or even try. Jay Rod does occasionally, as he the nearest we have to someone with pace. Luke was pretty reluctant last night, but i put that down to the full back being just as quick as him. Our plan A is to pass around people and constantly probe for an opening. We need a plan B too

[Barry Sanchez]

Yes agreed but it is also very helpful for going past players and getting into positions behind them. We have very few players who can do this, or even try. Jay Rod does occasionally, as he the nearest we have to someone with pace. Luke was pretty reluctant last night, but i put that down to the full back being just as quick as him. Our plan A is to pass around people and constantly probe for an opening. We need a plan B too

 

The patient Dutch 80's style is great, but we dont have a Gullit or Van Basten, nothing wrong with the system its simply the players calibre and the players they face means it does not really work, a pressing high game can yes but the free scoring and opportunities no.

[Turkish]

The lack of a different plan worries me most - and for that, the most obvious solution (though not the only one) is pace. We saw what a very limited Villa side did to us and pace was a key factor. Yes, great finishing helps but we dont have anyone that can offer genuine pace, from the bench or otherwise.

 

Johnno Quick?

[Bucks Saint]

Johnno Quick?

 

No obviously not. Pace plus skill, for the avoidance of any unlikely doubt

[70's Mike]

if Gaston played regularly the time he had the ball would drop by 10%

[egg]

AKA, Everybody Else's Fault.......

 

Aka a team game.

[Window Cleaner]

A proper left back, then we could move Shaw forward a notch, watched him closely last night, for the amount of time he has the ball he does in fact remarkably little, just sterile running down dead ends because he's gone so far that he's out of fuel at the end of each run.

[warsash saint]

A proper left back, then we could move Shaw forward a notch, watched him closely last night, for the amount of time he has the ball he does in fact remarkably little, just sterile running down dead ends because he's gone so far that he's out of fuel at the end of each run.

 

So if you think Shaw is rubbish going foward, how on earth is moving him into midfield gonna imrove things ??

[Window Cleaner]

So if you think Shaw is rubbish going foward, how on earth is moving him into midfield gonna imrove things ??

 

Didn't say he was rubbish going forward, I said that by the time he gets where he's going he's run out of steam for a final burst past his defender. Now if he started further forward that would be counteracted, plus I am known to believe that there are far better left backs (defensively) available. I like Shaw but he's wasted at left back.

[Bucks Saint]

Didn't say he was rubbish going forward, I said that by the time he gets where he's going he's run out of steam for a final burst past his defender. Now if he started further forward that would be counteracted, plus I am known to believe that there are far better left backs (defensively) available. I like Shaw but he's wasted at left back.

 

Bale #2?

[Window Cleaner]

Bale #2?

 

that would be a big ask but I don't doubt he has the talent to be thereabouts. Needs to be relieved of his primary defensive role first though. Kurzawa from Monaco would be my choice, young player and they'd probably let us have him for about 5 million €s.

[Mowgli]

We're not missing anything right now apart from oozing the confidence we showed before the international break. MP Has already said that it will be a quiet transfer window. My love for sport has always been and always will be how players cope with set backs and how coaches develop players, lifting them when low and managing them when on a good run.

 

So in the New year I hope to see our mid season blip (assuming it continues through December) put to bed, a few fringe players impressing and maybe a new star emerging from the youth team. Lifting the team after 3 or 4 defeats on the trot will be more challenging with the age of our squad but great character building stuff for later in the season.

[DuncanRG]

We're missing what Ramirez is meant to be. If we were missing what he is I should think he'd be playing regularly.

 

We're not missing anything right now apart from oozing the confidence we showed before the international break. MP Has already said that it will be a quiet transfer window. My love for sport has always been and always will be how players cope with set backs and how coaches develop players, lifting them when low and managing them when on a good run.

 

Agreed. I love the spirit and togetherness that Cortese has cultivated here, particularly since he started the run of contract extensions last season. We came through it as a team last year and will come through it this time as well, no doubt.

Edited 5 December, 2013 by DuncanRG

[S-Clarke]

We're missing a bit more depth to the squad, pretty much. We clearly need better backup in goal, and I think we're getting to the stage now where we can look to evolve the 2nd CB position with another Lovren-level defender. Having Fonte, Jos and Yoshida as the backup to CB isn't too bad. Midfield we're pretty much sorted, a lot of really good depth in that area. (Only question mark is over a natrual AMC style midfielder, if Ramirez isn't going to stick around)

 

and as hard as it may be for some people to accept, I think we're also edging nearer the time where we'll possibly look to evolve Lamberts position in the team.

[John B]

We're missing a bit more depth to the squad, pretty much. We clearly need better backup in goal, and I think we're getting to the stage now where we can look to evolve the 2nd CB position with another Lovren-level defender. Having Fonte, Jos and Yoshida as the backup to CB isn't too bad. Midfield we're pretty much sorted, a lot of really good depth in that area. (Only question mark is over a natrual AMC style midfielder, if Ramirez isn't going to stick around)

 

and as hard as it may be for some people to accept, I think we're also edging nearer the time where we'll possibly look to evolve Lamberts position in the team.

 

I agree in what you are saying it is going to take time to evolve into a top class team but it would have been better if the £30m or so we spent on two players had led to better performances

[david in sweden]

Seems to be goals and creativity to match our dominance. And in relation to this, it seems we are missing Gaston Ramirez.

 

In the 25 games he was involved in last season and this season we have averaged 1.4 goals per game.

In the 27 games he has not been involved in, we have averaged 1.18 goals per game.

 

It definitely seems to me that he is the missing link, and that we should look at bringing him back in, not getting rid as some of the unenlightened on the board believe.

 

 

..." being involved in" doesn't mean he was able to affect those games, and I think some of the goals referred to were scored when he wasn't even on the pitch, but still sat on the bench.

 

Ramirez only played 90 mins. on 5 occasions and was either subbed, or came on as a sub. in most of the others, and he missed the last three games because of a red-carding in WBA game.

Not such a good deal at £40K a week - or whatever he gets paid ?

 

IMHO.....if he wasn't scoring a lot, he should at least have been giving a lot more assists...and there didn't seem to be a lot of either otherwise why persist with him in the first place?.

 

However, he certainly doesn't seem a priority for MP's team sheet.

Edited 5 December, 2013 by david in sweden

[S-Clarke]

I agree in what you are saying it is going to take time to evolve into a top class team but it would have been better if the £30m or so we spent on two players had led to better performances

 

Gaston just hasn't had a chance this year for whatever reason, he was sporadic last year and frustrating but he did do things.....this year, for whatever reason he has been completely pushed aside. He's not injured in my eyes, clearly on the way out. Obvious cover up.

 

But I like Osvaldo, I thought he had a good game the other night. He gave us more attacking inpetus and had some good movement about him. Personally, from what I've seen...I don't think he's a ''target man'' or a ''play up top on his own'' sort of player. I think he needs lots of things going on around him for him to be effective. At Roma he usually played from the right, left and sometimes through the middle, with the likes of Pjanic, Totti and Lamella all floating around. I think Totti often played right up top.

 

He looked pretty poor at Chelsea, but he was seriously isolated. If you look at it last night, we had lots going on around him with Lallana, Jay, Lambert, Davis...and he looked better for it. Let's hope MP noticed it as well, as I'd hate to see him isolated up top again.

[The9]

I agree in what you are saying it is going to take time to evolve into a top class team but it would have been better if the £30m or so we spent on two players had led to better performances

 

We are pretty much currently at a season-low of 8th, which is higher than we were at any point last season - I'd say some "better performances" may have been involved somewhere along the way.