Post Match Reaction: SAINTS 2-3 Aston Villa

[ringwood]

Strange game, Yoshi ? made no sense, then JWP wasnt sat in normal position infront of Clyne, only a couple of times did JWP and Davis swap over, so JWP off seemed bizarre , hard to figure the formation, then to go 3 at the back with Chambers on the bench?

 

Have to say Yoshi at fault for first but Artur's presence would probably of made him work harder to score, 2nd, Cork and why didn't Gazza move for the ball when the cross came over? 3rd was afine goal, Artur would of struggled.

 

Up front I though we clogged it up, they were always going to pack it, first half they played quite a high line at times , then gradually as we got possession they just sat further and deeper, we crossed from in front, rather than push and get behind them and turn them, Luke needs to step outside rather than cut in.

 

We scored two good goals from open play , could and should of had more, and why can't we pass the ball to Osvaldo's feet?

[Sour Mash]

Strange game, Yoshi ? made no sense, then JWP wasnt sat in normal position infront of Clyne, only a couple of times did JWP and Davis swap over, so JWP off seemed bizarre , hard to figure the formation, then to go 3 at the back with Chambers on the bench?

 

Have to say Yoshi at fault for first but Artur's presence would probably of made him work harder to score, 2nd, Cork and why didn't Gazza move for the ball when the cross came over? 3rd was afine goal, Artur would of struggled.

 

Up front I though we clogged it up, they were always going to pack it, first half they played quite a high line at times , then gradually as we got possession they just sat further and deeper, we crossed from in front, rather than push and get behind them and turn them, Luke needs to step outside rather than cut in.

 

We scored two good goals from open play , could and should of had more, and why can't we pass the ball to Osvaldo's feet?

Yep, agree with all that, strange game. Why was Fonte dropped? With a nervous, inexperienced keeper, surely it must have been imperative to keep the rest of the defence as settled as possible? I thought Yoshida was poor, but then I've never been a fan.

 

We dominated possession as we always do, but that is partly because teams are happy to let us. Villa conceded the middle of the park to us and stuck every one else behind the ball, apart from two forwards who threatened on the break - their tactics worked very well and left us playing congested football with little cutting edge around their 18 yard box.

 

Without Schneiderlin we seem to lack anyone who will make late surging runs into the box from midfield. As we all know, we lack creativity and tonight provided a great example of that, however I am not sure how much this is a MP tactic, possession at all costs and sometimes we do need to be prepared to take a few more risks going forward, break faster and take a chance, rather than always cutting back in.

 

We didn't play badly tonight and were much the better team, Gazzaniga unlucky all told considering the situation he was thrust into.

Edited 5 December, 2013 by Sour Mash

[shurlock]

Yep, agree with all that, strange game. Why was Fonte dropped? With a nervous, inexperienced keeper, surely it must have been imperative to keep the rest of the defence as settled as possible? I thought Yoshida was poor, but then I've never been a fan.

 

We dominated possession as we always do, but that is partly because teams are happy to let us. Villa conceded the middle of the park to us ad stuck every one else behind the ball, apart from two forwards who threatened on the break - their tactics worked very well and left us playing congested football with little cutting edge around their 18 yard box.

 

Without Schneiderlin we seem to lack anyone who will make late surging runs into the box from midfield. As we all know, we lack creativity and tonight provided a great example of that, however I am not sure how much this is a MP tactic, possession at all costs and sometimes we do need to be prepared to take a few more risks going forward, break faster and take a chance, rather than always cutting back in.

 

We didn't play badly tonight and were much the better team, Gazzaniga unlucky all told considering the situation he was trust into.

 

Agree with that - suffice to say while the boy has bags of potential, don't think JWP is the solution at the moment. Davis is more versatile but isn't going to give defenses any sleepless nights much while even with Morgan, it's sometimes been a struggle to get him to go forward more.

[Lord Duckhunter]

A game that proved beyond doubt what a load of horseshiete statistics are. Forget possession , they looked dangerous every single time they broke and our defence looked naive and very panicky. Had it got back to 3-3 , I'd have backed them to go up and score again.

 

A big big moment was Adam at 0-0 , seemed to delay his shot a fraction too long and defender managed to block. We really need to go up in these sort of games as it makes the opposition come out a bit. I thought Paul Lambert got his tactics spot on and MP does seem a bit stuck in his ways tactically sometimes. Jose did it Sunday to him and remember Steve Clarke doing similar last season.

 

That said, I thought every player worked hard, it certainly wasn't a defeat where you could point the finger at anyones effort. Defensively we were poor, there's no getting away from that. Even Lovren struggled tonight ,but I dont quite know what people expected from gazza and Maya. One is our 3rd choice and one is a average lower premier league player who hasn't played for months. I thought Cork was ok, but him and Davies are a bit too similar for my liking, all square passes and playing in front of the opposition. Osvaldo made some good runs, but was not picked out, Adam showed some good touches, but was equally frustrating today. Don't understand the critical posts about Rickie, I thought he did ok, I dont really know what people expect.

 

We've had a good start and have a decent pattern to our play and off field we seem to have a coherent plan going forward. Contrast us with west ham and Norwich, and you can see we're travelling in the right direction . It's always going to be 2 steps forward one step back , particularly when you've got 3 or 4 cast iron regulars injured or carrying knocks. Villa won at Arsenal in a similar manner, so we need to dust ourselves down and get behind the side Sat. We could get beat again, maybe even hammered, as city can take apart most teams in Europe on their day, but the team need our support not a load of moaning.

[Gemmel]

Does anyone on this board actually know anything about football?

 

Great performance, undone by a couple of defensive errors and a worldy.

 

Complete freak result.... well done Saints, aspirations in tact, if you keep playing like that.

[ant]

Rarely have I ever been so ****ed off after a game. Just about simmering down now but that was an awful way to lose.

 

I'd rather add to some of the stats on here as Villa completed a mite less than 50% of their passes - can't recall seeing a completion rate lower than that at the top level. It gives a measure of how poor they were and, despite any negatives, how well we managed to break up play yet again. Three mistakes/moments of weakness, three goals conceded. I just don't know how you can account for that when we didn't play particularly poorly.

 

I see lots of talk about our lack of creativity; when we worked the space we were actually pinging it about nicely in the final third. It's always going to be difficult to play through the middle when the opposition is camping narrowly in their own half. One thing that does annoy is the reluctance of Shaw and Clyne to beat the opposition full back. If they've been instructed to be more conservative it seems wrong - especially when one of our CDMs drops in to cover them.

 

Arsenal and Chelsea were largely better than us whereas Aston Villa played a kick and rush game that carved us open worryingly easily. We've got to find a method to withstand hoofball tactics or teams that sit deep and work the counter attack. To move to the next level we don't need to pick more than the odd point off top 4 teams, but we do need to put the average ones to bed. That's certainly how Everton have pushed on over the past decade.

 

I see no need for panic stations - a wafer thin slice of better luck our way and we'd be sitting pretty again. Perform like tonight (defensive frailties 'n all) and we'll still win plenty. It's true that beyond our strongest 13 or 14 players the quality dips, but the squad's still far stronger than it was 12 months ago.

Edited 5 December, 2013 by ant

[Dig Dig]

As said above, a very strange game.

 

On most days we would have won in a Fulamesq comfortable victory which would have been totally embarassing for Vill but we conspired to give them at least 2 goals which means that your chances of winning are already fairly limited. All their goals came at times where we were pushing to go ahead so not much went our way on the night.

 

Tonight again showed how dependent we are on stability in personnel, not many players ready to push for a starting 11 place beyond our best 11 and instantly make us more vulnerable.

 

Rickie needs to be dropped for a couple of games IMO, general sloppy play, limited mobility and hardly any shots at goal.

 

A more creative option in January is needed if Gaston is not going to get a chance. We are overly workman like and tidy at times, thank **** for Lallana.

[USA SaintsFan]

Insane result for how we played:

 

611 completed passes

77 percent possession

21 total shots

etc...

[USA SaintsFan]

43 crosses!!!

[70's Mike]

Does anyone on this board actually know anything about football?

 

Great performance, undone by a couple of defensive errors and a worldy.

 

Complete freak result.... well done Saints, aspirations in tact, if you keep playing like that.

 

95% Agree 5% is we do not cross enough , time after time Lambert gets behind small full back but rather than cross ball is checked back out and danger moment has gone

[70's Mike]

43 crosses!!!

 

 

most of which poorly delivered

[70's Mike]

I was disappointed with Luke Shaw, seemed reluctant to take full back on especially in 2nd half, not sure if he is carrying a knock

[thornhill_saints]

I was disappointed with Luke Shaw' date=' seemed reluctant to take full back on especially in 2nd half, not sure if he is carrying a knock[/quote']

 

That's what I was just saying to the misses, I also think his crosses are poor.

[dubai_phil]

That's what I was just saying to the misses, I also think his crosses are poor.

 

Glad someone else spotted that.

 

PLayed most of 2nd half in a wingback /MF role.

 

His final ball into the box was poor, lost count of the number of times that crosses hit the first defender last night from both sides

[NickG]

We had the highest possession for any team in any prem game this season.

 

They had three shots on target, JayRod had 4 (6 total) and Osvaldo had 3 (4 total).

 

Delph was their best passer but all our players each had more than him.

 

6 times more successful passes!

 

We had injuries to many of our best players this season -

 

Boruc

Schneiderlin

Wanyama

Clyne

Fonte ( knock & not fit for 90 -mp)

 

Five of our first choice back 7.

 

Maybe not surprising gave soft goals away?

 

Important not to over react , every neutral can see bit of freak result. In some ways with 5 of back 7 not fit including both CM surprising how well we played - can you imagine previous seasons?

 

Our organisation / system works so well because of MS and VW, MS is one of best midfielders in prem IMHO. Cork is decent but huge step down.

 

 

Gutted as should have been 3 points and now pressure increases.

 

Can't help wondering whether different type of attacking player is needed for teams like Villa, West Ham who we over run. Maybe Ramirez or a more direct quick forward (what we hoped Mayuka was).

 

Don't think anything wrong with tactics. Lambert didn't plan on being over run and getting lucky / taking advantage of mistakes / injuries. He did have quick players trying to break directly, but not rocket science just all they could do.

 

Finally, those moaning about MS's interview giving too much away - coach at my son's under 10 team had already described our method to the boys with that sort of detail so no secrets to even amateur coaches watching!

[JoeShmoe]

 

At the end of the day, Barry, Glasgow and Alpwhine will go into meltdown and change absolutely everything, while the real fans will calm down, look at it objectively and actually come to the conclusion that we're in pretty damn good shape.

 

Fixed it for you

[Batman]

It was like the Leeds away game..... In reverse

[adrian lord]

Just as the media plaudits had reached an hysterical crescendo, Saints' form catastrophically slumps. You just knew it, it's the true Southampton Way, and it dies hard.

[alpine_saint]

Just as the media plaudits had reached an hysterical crescendo, Saints' form catastrophically slumps. You just knew it, it's the true Southampton Way, and it dies hard.

 

Yup.

[alpine_saint]

Does anyone on this board actually know anything about football?

 

Great performance, undone by a couple of defensive errors and a worldy.

 

Complete freak result.... well done Saints, aspirations in tact, if you keep playing like that.

 

Wow, we've never heard this drivel before...

 

At least its a bit more dreamy than NickG's usual crap missive.......

[Smirking_Saint]

Wow, we've never heard this drivel before...

 

At least its a bit more dreamy than NickG's usual crap missive.......

 

He gloats to to the left

 

He gloats to the riiiight

 

Alpine Saints only on when were sh!te

[PhilippineSaint]

He gloats to to the left

 

He gloats to the riiiight

 

Alpine Saints only on when were sh!te

 

Wheres that Like Button again?

[St_Tel49]

Frustrated, nothing more to say really.

 

3 mistakes gifted them the goals, though that last one from them was a very good goal, Gazza not to blame for any of the goals. With the possesion and room Villa gave us we should have done much more, and Chambers (was he on the bench?) should have replaced Clyne, not Fonte.

 

Think some of the first team players are starting to feel tired and need a rest.

He could have done a lot more for the second. He came, hesitated and went back and left himself stranded in nomansland. What he should have done was take the ball, the attacker and both defender's if he had to. I doubt if Boruc would have conceded it.

[alpine_saint]

He gloats to to the left

 

He gloats to the riiiight

 

Alpine Saints only on when were sh!te

 

Freudian slip from you aside, I am glad we agree......

[Glasgow_Saint]

Freudian slip from you aside, I am glad we agree......

 

 

[Roger]

We weren't ****e at all last night. Sometimes our fans need to watch the match and then analyse and we were v good in a lot of aspects.

[Goalie66]

Does anyone on this board actually know anything about football?

 

Great performance, undone by a couple of defensive errors and a worldy.

 

Complete freak result.... well done Saints, aspirations in tact, if you keep playing like that.

 

Could not agree more. We played well against a side that could easily have been hammered with a bit more luck. reminded me of Reading game a couple of years ago. Dominated but got unstuck by three quick breaks. My only gripe was that their right back was very suspect and we did not exploit his hesitancy until the second half.

[ant]

Wow, we've never heard this drivel before...

 

At least its a bit more dreamy than NickG's usual crap missive.......

 

Maybe you had to be there.

[Sour Mash]

It was like the Leeds away game..... In reverse

We didn't have their keeper diving all over the place like Davis was that night, big difference.

[Batman]

We didn't have their keeper diving all over the place like Davis was that night, big difference.

 

yeah. it was LIKE the leeds game. not exactly the same.

we still hit the woodwork twice and guzan had to make a few very very good saves. granted not like the onslaught that kelvin had but this is as close as a reverse to that game as I can remember

 

 

this response on the villa site pretty much sums it up for them....

 

Not entirely sure how we got away with that

Edited 5 December, 2013 by Batman

[Sour Mash]

We weren't ****e at all last night. Sometimes our fans need to watch the match and then analyse and we were v good in a lot of aspects.

I don't think anyone is saying we were s***e last night though.

[Batman]

I don't think anyone is saying we were s***e last night though.

 

barry, alpine, glasgow/110 persaint are, over and over and over

[Sour Mash]

barry, alpine, glasgow/110 persaint are, over and over and over

[monosaint]

Some stats from our 1-0 away win at leeds a couple of years ago. Not disimilar to the Stats yesterday. I remember feeling that this was a smash and grab and I remember Neil Warnock saying the same thing..**** happens.

 

[monosaint]

Whoops. Lost the URL

http://www.leeds.vitalfootball.co.uk/stats.asp?a=274883

[LGTL]

Why did Yoshida start over Fonte?

[pangy]

Why did Yoshida start over Fonte?

 

Because MP thought it was 3 easy pts in the bag and he would rest one for Sat?

 

Fonte was clearly not injured

[eurosaint]

A game that proved beyond doubt what a load of horseshiete statistics are. Forget possession , they looked dangerous every single time they broke and our defence looked naive and very panicky. Had it got back to 3-3 , I'd have backed them to go up and score again.

 

A big big moment was Adam at 0-0 , seemed to delay his shot a fraction too long and defender managed to block. We really need to go up in these sort of games as it makes the opposition come out a bit. I thought Paul Lambert got his tactics spot on and MP does seem a bit stuck in his ways tactically sometimes. Jose did it Sunday to him and remember Steve Clarke doing similar last season.

 

That said, I thought every player worked hard, it certainly wasn't a defeat where you could point the finger at anyones effort. Defensively we were poor, there's no getting away from that. Even Lovren struggled tonight ,but I dont quite know what people expected from gazza and Maya. One is our 3rd choice and one is a average lower premier league player who hasn't played for months. I thought Cork was ok, but him and Davies are a bit too similar for my liking, all square passes and playing in front of the opposition. Osvaldo made some good runs, but was not picked out, Adam showed some good touches, but was equally frustrating today. Don't understand the critical posts about Rickie, I thought he did ok, I dont really know what people expect.

 

We've had a good start and have a decent pattern to our play and off field we seem to have a coherent plan going forward. Contrast us with west ham and Norwich, and you can see we're travelling in the right direction . It's always going to be 2 steps forward one step back , particularly when you've got 3 or 4 cast iron regulars injured or carrying knocks. Villa won at Arsenal in a similar manner, so we need to dust ourselves down and get behind the side Sat. We could get beat again, maybe even hammered, as city can take apart most teams in Europe on their day, but the team need our support not a load of moaning.

 

A good rational post IMO (especially as written at one o clock in the morning!). Others have said how carp Villa were but seemingly ignore the fact that they have one of the best away records in the league and are the only team to beat Arsenal at the Emirates ! They set out to soak up pressure and have serious pace on the counter attack, that's how they do it and it seems to work !

It strikes me that the most critical posters were not actually at the match and did not appreciate just how much effort our lads put in, sure we made a few critical blunders but there is no denying that the spirit is good and this bodes well for when we come out of this poor run of results !

COYS.

[Roger]

Freudian slip from you aside, I am glad we agree......

 

Are you sure they didn't say we were ****e?

[Charlie Wayman]

What to say about this mess? Start playing around with a winning team forced through injury or by choice to "rest" players and this is what happens.The adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies in spades. With Boruc, Clyne, Schneiderlin and Wanyama injured - that's 4 out of 6 - the immediate future does not look good and shows how little strength we have in depth. These defeats will start to erode that fragile confidence that has been built up over the season so far and even when we have al our regulars fit again and hoping we don't get anymore injuries to say Adam or Ricky, it will still take weeks to get us back up on the platform we've reached thus far. It seems these next couple of months will be tough through disruption and whilst relegation is out of the question, our slide down the table may be difficult to halt for a while.

 

Now more than ever we will find out what Pochettino is made of, if he starts tinkering through panic as he did last night things will only get worse and his own peace of mind will not have been helped by images flashed around the world last night of an angry Cortese with cupping his head in his hand in frustration and disbelief. Sadly, the Man City game looks to be a write-off, there won't be a repeat of lads year and on last nought's defensive form and with so many key players missing they will be hard to stop. Another whipping could be disastrous for morale.

[Barry Sanchez]

barry, alpine, glasgow/110 persaint are, over and over and over

 

Really? I have not said that at all, why do the happier ones always lie?

[Roger]

What to say about this mess? Start playing around with a winning team forced through injury or by choice to "rest" players and this is what happens.The adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies in spades. With Boruc, Clyne, Schneiderlin and Wanyama injured - that's 4 out of 6 - the immediate future does not look good and shows how little strength we have in depth. These defeats will start to erode that fragile confidence that has been built up over the season so far and even when we have al our regulars fit again and hoping we don't get anymore injuries to say Adam or Ricky, it will still take weeks to get us back up on the platform we've reached thus far. It seems these next couple of months will be tough through disruption and whilst relegation is out of the question, our slide down the table may be difficult to halt for a while.

 

Now more than ever we will find out what Pochettino is made of, if he starts tinkering through panic as he did last night things will only get worse and his own peace of mind will not have been helped by images flashed around the world last night of an angry Cortese with cupping his head in his hand in frustration and disbelief. Sadly, the Man City game looks to be a write-off, there won't be a repeat of lads year and on last nought's defensive form and with so many key players missing they will be hard to stop. Another whipping could be disastrous for morale.

 

Unreasonably negative.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

We lost last night despite playing well, creating all the pressure and making loads of chances...

 

Why do the usual crew LOVE to be able to slag players and the manager off...with such venom and gross inaccuracy

 

But when we win the compliments are so begrudgingly given...

 

Why do these people bother to follow football?

[Barry Sanchez]

We lost last night despite playing well, creating all the pressure and making loads of chances...

 

Why do the usual crew LOVE to be able to slag players and the manager off...with such venom and gross inaccuracy

 

But when we win the compliments are so begrudgingly given...

 

Why do these people bother to follow football?

 

Did we play well? Did we really? What clear cut opportunities were there, flowing football? Did we look comfortable when we were not in possession? Pochettino has ben honest in his assessment, I suppose football is a game of opinions.

[trousers]

Did we play well?

 

Yes

[Sour Mash]

We lost last night despite playing well, creating all the pressure and making loads of chances...

 

Why do the usual crew LOVE to be able to slag players and the manager off...with such venom and gross inaccuracy

 

But when we win the compliments are so begrudgingly given...

 

Why do these people bother to follow football?

I agree we played well and were certainly the better team, but did we make loads of chances?

[derry]

As Jimmy Greaves once said "It's a funny old game". There are so many different opinions, who was rubbish and who made mistakes. Firstly the first goal, Clyne ran down a blind alley, was blocked off tried a pass to Lallana who had no chance and the ball was given away, whacked up the line, Yoshida had little chance to intercept after that it was all over, Lovren sold himself and Gazzaniga was left high and dry with two Villa players. No chance with that one.

 

The second, Lovren in the clear went to send it long and miskicked to a Villa player, Cork won it back tried to look for Shaw and slipped Villa with the ball good cross to the near post over Yoshida, Fonte was the wrong side of Koska who buried the header, Gazzaniga no chance again.

 

The third on the edge of the Villa penalty area Lallana gave the ball away when not under pressure, Delph ran though Fonte backed off as did Yoshida, Cork was coming back just left of Yoshida, Yoshida then started to challenge but Delph hit it swerving away into the top corner, Gazzaniga no chance again. This was Delph's first ever Premier goal and it could have gone anywhere. If Yoshida had dived in too early and missed as Lovren did for the first we were wide open. Nobody could have anticipated that shot.

 

I think our game has been based on the block of four in the centre of the field which is the foundation for the way we play. Last night that wasn't there because of the jogging Davis playing. We would have been better placed with Cork teamed with Wanyama in front of the centre backs. West Brom played the same way last season but we persisted in waves of attacks which sucked Davis and the full backs in leaving the centre backs exposed to the through ball. The central block of four covers the full backs and provides the depth. Our game doesn't work against a team that doesn't pass the ball but sends it forward mostly first time to quick forwards unless we maintain that depth. Davis is neat and tidy but slow and just doesn't do the defensive covering which left us exposed because of our attacking full backs.

 

We can press high against passing teams but we can't play the same way against teams missing out midfield. It's all very well having 77% possession but then conceding goals after giving the ball away is nonsense. Both our goals came from balls hit in from wide, against these teams we need a lot more of those crosses. It's a lot more difficult then to make the interceptions and mostly ends up with the ball headed back out to be recycled wide and crossed again.

[Roger]

As Jimmy Greaves once said "It's a funny old game". There are so many different opinions, who was rubbish and who made mistakes. Firstly the first goal, Clyne ran down a blind alley, was blocked off tried a pass to Lallana who had no chance and the ball was given away, whacked up the line, Yoshida had little chance to intercept after that it was all over, Lovren sold himself and Gazzaniga was left high and dry with two Villa players. No chance with that one.

 

The second, Lovren in the clear went to send it long and miskicked to a Villa player, Cork won it back tried to look for Shaw and slipped Villa with the ball good cross to the near post over Yoshida, Fonte was the wrong side of Koska who buried the header, Gazzaniga no chance again.

 

The third on the edge of the Villa penalty area Lallana gave the ball away when not under pressure, Delph ran though Fonte backed off as did Yoshida, Cork was coming back just left of Yoshida, Yoshida then started to challenge but Delph hit it swerving away into the top corner, Gazzaniga no chance again. This was Delph's first ever Premier goal and it could have gone anywhere. If Yoshida had dived in too early and missed as Lovren did for the first we were wide open. Nobody could have anticipated that shot.

 

I think our game has been based on the block of four in the centre of the field which is the foundation for the way we play. Last night that wasn't there because of the jogging Davis playing. We would have been better placed with Cork teamed with Wanyama in front of the centre backs. West Brom played the same way last season but we persisted in waves of attacks which sucked Davis and the full backs in leaving the centre backs exposed to the through ball. The central block of four covers the full backs and provides the depth. Our game doesn't work against a team that doesn't pass the ball but sends it forward mostly first time to quick forwards unless we maintain that depth. Davis is neat and tidy but slow and just doesn't do the defensive covering which left us exposed because of our attacking full backs.

 

We can press high against passing teams but we can't play the same way against teams missing out midfield. It's all very well having 77% possession but then conceding goals after giving the ball away is nonsense. Both our goals came from balls hit in from wide, against these teams we need a lot more of those crosses. It's a lot more difficult then to make the interceptions and mostly ends up with the ball headed back out to be recycled wide and crossed again.

 

The goalie was guilty for second IMO was 5 yards out!

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I agree we played well and were certainly the better team, but did we make loads of chances?

 

Yes... 21 shots and 9 on target see sky sports web site

[Barry Sanchez]

Yes

 

Go on, you and Pochettino disagree, why do you disagree with our manager? Why do you think we played well, what did we do thats was good enough to warrant our overall game as "good"?

Edited 5 December, 2013 by Barry Sanchez