Crazy Diamond Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 According to the bloke sat behind me at Stamford Bridge his performances aren't a problem - and I quote: "I don't care if Osvaldo is sh*t, he's a lad" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Don't see how you can claim Guly was poor. In L1 when he was signed he was good - and his goals early on in the Champ were vital. Also, this want to dismiss the promotions - were the players signed then not relevant on where we are today? Some truly bizarre logic, though let's unsurprising really - as any sensible person wouldn't try and make the argument you do. Lol at deflector shields - every myth of yours that gets busted you just move on to another ridiculous argument. Very few say Ramirez or Osvaldo have been raging successes yet. The less hysterical amongst us are able to recognise that whilst disappointing, they haven't been as bad as you and you're band of miserable trolls try to claim. Life isn't as black and white as you try to claim. Life is not black and white (another deflector shield effort) and we all know that, the players mentioned have been shiit, no deflector sheild required, the fact you pick Guly as you trump card as a player who has not been crap merely shows how weak and flimsy your argument actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Life is not black and white (another deflector shield effort) and we all know that, the players mentioned have been shiit, no deflector sheild required, the fact you pick Guly as you trump card as a player who has not been crap merely shows how weak and flimsy your argument actually is. Errrrm, says the man that went from Cortese buys all our players - to all our players are useless. Deflector shield Bazza. I think it shows how weak your argument (and how poor your judgement is) is that you mentioned Guly. If anything he was a pretty decent signing. I'll ask again - do you think all other clubs are spot on with their transfers in 100% of cases? Yeah, Mayuka & Forren didn't work out. They are no longer at the club, move on. Or is it too hard to moan when we are having a good season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Would like to see him start with Ramirez for a game or two, IMO would gel together well... I expect this is what most people were expecting prior to the beginning of the season. This thread makes for some painful reading. Fox a better player than Osvaldo? Get rid of Osvaldo now after 6 starts? I'm amazed how people can watch football for years, and yet be quite happy to write a £15m player off after half a dozen games in a new club/country and not be open to giving people a chance. Bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Errrrm, says the man that went from Cortese buys all our players - to all our players are useless. Deflector shield Bazza. I think it shows how weak your argument (and how poor your judgement is) is that you mentioned Guly. If anything he was a pretty decent signing. I'll ask again - do you think all other clubs are spot on with their transfers in 100% of cases? Yeah, Mayuka & Forren didn't work out. They are no longer at the club, move on. Or is it too hard to moan when we are having a good season? I'll make it easy, who is responsible for signings? A collective group to spread the blame or one person? I believe its one person, you obviously dont. Of course other clubs signings fail, thats not unusual, what is unusual is the apparant prominence of Cortese in our signings, why Italy? Its a huge coincidence dont you think? The scale of % of failures of our foreign signings is alarming, we are a smaller club who will struggle to absorb the failures, I explained this yesterday in short bigger better squads can accomodate shiit signings as they already have high quality there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 I'll make it easy, who is responsible for signings? A collective group to spread the blame or one person? I believe its one person, you obviously dont. Of course other clubs signings fail, thats not unusual, what is unusual is the apparant prominence of Cortese in our signings, why Italy? Its a huge coincidence dont you think? The scale of % of failures of our foreign signings is alarming, we are a smaller club who will struggle to absorb the failures, I explained this yesterday in short bigger better squads can accomodate shiit signings as they already have high quality there. We're 7th in the Premier League, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 He also bought for an awful more money Mayuka Ramirez Osvaldo Forren Lee Gazzaniga Guly So maybe when significant purchases are required he should told to to sit the fu ck back and shut the fu ck up and sign the cheques and push pens. So wanyama and lovren were not significant purchases? Once you start on this Cortese sign players on a whim business, any argument you make, be it good or bad, starts to lose credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 So wanyama and lovren were not significant purchases? Once you start on this Cortese sign players on a whim business, any argument you make, be it good or bad, starts to lose credibility. Where have I said he signs them on a whim? We are talking about his poor signings, wasn't Lovren a new system of how we buy a player? That says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Where have I said he signs them on a whim? We are talking about his poor signings, wasn't Lovren a new system of how we buy a player? That says it all. Osvaldo was signed after Lovren, therefore the same system on that basis was used for both. How does it 'say it all?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 It's unusual for a new player to go straight into the team and be a success. Historically in the big clubs it would take a few months before a new signing would be considered to have adapted enough to be a regular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Osvaldo was signed after Lovren, therefore the same system on that basis was used for both. How does it 'say it all?' Do you know that or are you assuming it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Do you know that or are you assuming it? You assume they would use a system once and then not again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 You assume they would use a system once and then not again? So its safe for me to assume this time the system did not work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 So its safe for me to assume this time the system did not work? Taking it as having begun this summer and that it was used for Osvaldo it is worst only 33% percent ineffective. Wanyama and Lovren have been contributing, you have already written off Osvaldo. It is clear that the team management and many fans have not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Do you know that or are you assuming it? Do you know this: the apparant prominence of Cortese in our signings Or are you assuming? I know you get all Dewey eyed about football of yesteryear, but in modern football yes, Chief Executives do take part in the signing of players. The days of wheeler dealer 'Arry managers are all but gone. Can you not comprehend that his involvement in transfer does not mean that he is specifically selecting the players. Even if he was, where do you think he would be getting the information? All that time he sits playing Football Manager/Fifa in June/July instead of signing players to annoy AlpWhine? It's not like he is insistent on doing his best to not flush away money, so why would he hire a DoF and an entire scouting network if he is just going to decide who he signs anyway? Oh and the blindingly obvious example at hand here, the managers preference - you know, that guy who worked with Osvaldo for 18 months at his previous club. Couldn't be anything to do with your obsession (hilarious seeing as you are the one that talks about the 'cult', yet talk about him more than most posters) with Cortese eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Taking it as having begun this summer and that it was used for Osvaldo it is worst only 33% percent ineffective. Wanyama and Lovren have been contributing, you have already written off Osvaldo. It is clear that the team management and many fans have not. I have not written him off I am saying as it stands we can not afford to have a striker who is not playing well in the side as we are not creating nor scoring many, we dont have that luxury, I am writing off Ramirez as he has had enough opportunities and looks disinterested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Good to see Troll Sanchez taking over yet another thread with his mindless bull ****. I guess he believes that if he says something often enough it will be true. Clealry knows nothing about how players are recruited and bought and sold, and seems to think all of the players we have bought were from Italy. I can only think of 3 players that we have bought permanently from Italy, Boruc, Gaston, Ossie and Guly. Artur, complete failure of course, broken hand was Cortese's fault, Guly was a great success when he was bought, Ramirez does not fit into our current system, but was OK-ish when Adkins was in charge, and Ossie has started about 6 games, been injured in two of them, has recovered from a medical condition and so has only played one game since, yet he is being written off, how fecking stupid can some people be (no need to answer Barry we know the answer in your case). Why pick on Italy anyway, Ossie played successfully in Spain, where we know all the players are failures. We get just as many transfers wrong from other places, Holland has had good and bad, Switzerland useless, Japan disappointing. Perhaps we should buy all of our players from France where we have a 100% success rate (1 of 1, Morgan was pre-Cortese). Some of our British signings have not been too good, Danny Fox for one. Anyway, it is not Cortese that decides who we buy, it is not even Lou Reed. Paul Mitchell is Head of Recuritment, Cortese just does the deals. Of course he is prominent in the signings, thats because HE RUNS THE CLUB, really its not difficult. Italy should also be a good source because many Italian clubs are in huge debt and need to shift players, can't see any reason why not to look there. Ramirez is hardly a product of Italy, he has played more games for Penarol and Saints than he ever did for Bologna. Anyway, I will spend another pleasant evening viewing troll postings that people will continue to quote (no point having these idiots on ignore) because with only 3 posts per day now I won't waste another one on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 God this thread is just an embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 (edited) Watched a bit of Verona-Fiorentina yesterday, out of 7 goals 5 were from shots outside the box, one was just inside and the other was a penalty. The amount of time and space the shooters had to tee up and pick their spot just doesn't exist in the PL. I mean it must look fantastic on YouTube clips but it's nothing to do with real football, more like Subbuteo. As MPo says today, Dani needs more time to adjust to the intensity of our game. Edited 3 December, 2013 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 A deceased Rock Star, a hair dresser and an accountant doing our buying, awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Predictable - we lose a couple of games and the panic sets in. And the scapegoating goes into high gear. Looking for players to blame is just a way of displacing your own lack of confidence in the team. A team's performance is never consistent. Players go through difficult periods. Take the long-term perspective. Get behind your team and support the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Predictable - we lose a couple of games and the panic sets in. And the scapegoating goes into high gear. Looking for players to blame is just a way of displacing your own lack of confidence in the team. A team's performance is never consistent. Players go through difficult periods. Take the long-term perspective. Get behind your team and support the players. Who would have thought that could happen in football........!!! I agree with your sentiments Hamilton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Predictable - we lose a couple of games and the panic sets in. And the scapegoating goes into high gear. Looking for players to blame is just a way of displacing your own lack of confidence in the team. A team's performance is never consistent. Players go through difficult periods. Take the long-term perspective. Get behind your team and support the players. Where does this sit with the fact Ramirez has always been gash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Where does this sit with the fact Ramirez has always been gash? Oh Bazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Oh Bazza Just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Watched a bit of Verona-Fiorentina yesterday, out of 7 goals 5 were from shots outside the box, one was just inside and the other was a penalty. The amount of time and space the shooters had to tee up and pick their spot just doesn't exist in the PL. I mean it must look fantastic on YouTube clips but it's nothing to do with real football, more like Subbuteo. As MPo says today, Dani needs more time to adjust to the intensity of our game. thanks windows that is interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Where does this sit with the fact Ramirez has always been gash? Where does this sit with the fact your 'judgement' is totally gash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 What about if we swapped him for Carlos Vela and a few bob, who'd think that was good ? Personally if Sociedad really want him I'd hold out for Griezmann. I like Griezmann, not fussed about Vela though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Where does this sit with the fact your 'judgement' is totally gash? Probably near or at the same point as Gaston's performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Where does this sit with the fact Ramirez has always been gash? No he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 No he isn't. I agree with many of Barry's assessments but in this case I'm with you Whitey - top quality player and the finish against Bristol was one not many in our side our capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Good to see Troll Sanchez taking over yet another thread with his mindless bull ****. I guess he believes that if he says something often enough it will be true. Clealry knows nothing about how players are recruited and bought and sold, and seems to think all of the players we have bought were from Italy. I can only think of 3 players that we have bought permanently from Italy, Boruc, Gaston, Ossie and Guly. Artur, complete failure of course, broken hand was Cortese's fault, Guly was a great success when he was bought, Ramirez does not fit into our current system, but was OK-ish when Adkins was in charge, and Ossie has started about 6 games, been injured in two of them, has recovered from a medical condition and so has only played one game since, yet he is being written off, how fecking stupid can some people be (no need to answer Barry we know the answer in your case). Why pick on Italy anyway, Ossie played successfully in Spain, where we know all the players are failures. We get just as many transfers wrong from other places, Holland has had good and bad, Switzerland useless, Japan disappointing. Perhaps we should buy all of our players from France where we have a 100% success rate (1 of 1, Morgan was pre-Cortese). Some of our British signings have not been too good, Danny Fox for one. Anyway, it is not Cortese that decides who we buy, it is not even Lou Reed. Paul Mitchell is Head of Recuritment, Cortese just does the deals. Of course he is prominent in the signings, thats because HE RUNS THE CLUB, really its not difficult. Italy should also be a good source because many Italian clubs are in huge debt and need to shift players, can't see any reason why not to look there. Ramirez is hardly a product of Italy, he has played more games for Penarol and Saints than he ever did for Bologna. Anyway, I will spend another pleasant evening viewing troll postings that people will continue to quote (no point having these idiots on ignore) because with only 3 posts per day now I won't waste another one on this thread. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 I agree with many of Barry's assessments I was wondering if ur related in some way? Genuine question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 I was wondering if ur related in some way? Genuine question! Do have a couple of scouse mates, but thankfully no family members I know of live in or come from Liverpool. We do seem however to have a telepathic mutual understanding and agree on many Saints related issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 I think Osvaldo is so frustrating to people because we know he is a great player and he just isn't showing it. He needs time to settle, the English game is so different to Europe and so much more intense. How many players come to England on big money and fail to make an immediate impact! Give him a chance and Dani will come good. P.s. Mods really need to do something about the derailing of threads where 2 posters get into an argument and spend pages bickering the same points, reading this forum is getting tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintrich Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 What was said on saints player re: Osvaldo, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Good to see Troll Sanchez taking over yet another thread with his mindless bull ****. I guess he believes that if he says something often enough it will be true. Clealry knows nothing about how players are recruited and bought and sold, and seems to think all of the players we have bought were from Italy. I can only think of 3 players that we have bought permanently from Italy, Boruc, Gaston, Ossie and Guly. Artur, complete failure of course, broken hand was Cortese's fault, Guly was a great success when he was bought, Ramirez does not fit into our current system, but was OK-ish when Adkins was in charge, and Ossie has started about 6 games, been injured in two of them, has recovered from a medical condition and so has only played one game since, yet he is being written off, how fecking stupid can some people be (no need to answer Barry we know the answer in your case). Why pick on Italy anyway, Ossie played successfully in Spain, where we know all the players are failures. We get just as many transfers wrong from other places, Holland has had good and bad, Switzerland useless, Japan disappointing. Perhaps we should buy all of our players from France where we have a 100% success rate (1 of 1, Morgan was pre-Cortese). Some of our British signings have not been too good, Danny Fox for one. Anyway, it is not Cortese that decides who we buy, it is not even Lou Reed. Paul Mitchell is Head of Recuritment, Cortese just does the deals. Of course he is prominent in the signings, thats because HE RUNS THE CLUB, really its not difficult. Italy should also be a good source because many Italian clubs are in huge debt and need to shift players, can't see any reason why not to look there. Ramirez is hardly a product of Italy, he has played more games for Penarol and Saints than he ever did for Bologna. Anyway, I will spend another pleasant evening viewing troll postings that people will continue to quote (no point having these idiots on ignore) because with only 3 posts per day now I won't waste another one on this thread. "... I'm waiting for my man ...". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 I think Osvaldo is so frustrating to people because we know he is a great player and he just isn't showing it. He needs time to settle, the English game is so different to Europe and so much more intense. How many players come to England on big money and fail to make an immediate impact! Give him a chance and Dani will come good. P.s. Mods really need to do something about the derailing of threads where 2 posters get into an argument and spend pages bickering the same points, reading this forum is getting tedious. Yes. The same suspects over and over. They sure do like the "sound" of their own voices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 3 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 3 December, 2013 :lol: Billy Sharp, the man so good he can't get into the Reading team - let alone score. Back fit after an injury and started for Reading tonight. Surprise, surprise scores a wonder goal after 13 minutes. Good timing huh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 http://www.loureed.com/inmemoriam/ http://www.paul-mitchell.co.uk/ http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02561/cortese_2561941b.jpg Shock and awe and a touch of confusion when buying..................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Back fit after an injury and started for Reading tonight. Surprise, surprise scores a wonder goal after 13 minutes. Good timing huh Let's not kid ourselves that he would have done any better on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Taking it as having begun this summer and that it was used for Osvaldo it is worst only 33% percent ineffective. Wanyama and Lovren have been contributing, you have already written off Osvaldo. It is clear that the team management and many fans have not. I'm not sure what point you are making there? The fact is Lovren and Wanyama have settled in quickly and Wanyama came from the Scottish league which is as similar as you can get to our Championship so he had more 'adjusting' to do than most ........ So these guys have managed to settle and play very well but our friend under discussion hasn't played well. The ironic thing is that even the pro Osvaldo crowd are all saying that we should 'give him time' and are therefore admitting by inference that he is playing below expectations so even they agree that there is an issue with him. The only slight disagreement is the matter of whether he is given time or not played at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 I'm not sure what point you are making there? The fact is Lovren and Wanyama have settled in quickly and Wanyama came from the Scottish league which is as similar as you can get to our Championship so he had more 'adjusting' to do than most ........ So these guys have managed to settle and play very well but our friend under discussion hasn't played well. The ironic thing is that even the pro Osvaldo crowd are all saying that we should 'give him time' and are therefore admitting by inference that he is playing below expectations so even they agree that there is an issue with him. The only slight disagreement is the matter of whether he is given time or not played at all. Some people just don't seem to understand football. Osvaldo is an Italian International, proven everywhere else he has played and has started 6 games in the premier league. At the same time, the chances the TEAM have created for him have been few and far between so far so anyone with a bit of nouse will know it's far too soon to say that he is a dud or can't hack it in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 I suspect MP is not overly enthralled with his contribution so far... but its his responsibility to fit Osvaldo into our playing style and there is no evidence that this is going to happen any time soon. So, not sure where he sees him fitting in... lone striker - not convinced.. One of the 3 offensive playmakers.. not convinced. We will have to wait and see... but I think Ramirez or a similar type of player would increase his chances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Some people just don't seem to understand football. Osvaldo is an Italian International, proven everywhere else he has played and has started 6 games in the premier league. At the same time, the chances the TEAM have created for him have been few and far between so far so anyone with a bit of nouse will know it's far too soon to say that he is a dud or can't hack it in this league. Blimey this thread is still going. At least some are talking sense though although worrying how many knobs we have as fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 3 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Tomorrow is a huge game for him. Time to start repaying his fee, wages and fans patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 Tomorrow is a huge game for him. Time to start repaying his fee, wages and fans patience. All four of you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110_Persaint Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 All four of you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 3 December, 2013 Share Posted 3 December, 2013 The ironic thing is that even the pro Osvaldo crowd are all saying that we should 'give him time' and are therefore admitting by inference that he is playing below expectations so even they agree that there is an issue with him. The problem here is impatient people with unrealistic expectations, not Osvaldo's performances. People are saying "give him time" because 6 matches is a completely unrealistic timeframe for judging a player. Anyone can have a run of average performances when adjusting to a new location and system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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