Email to the club

[BedfordSaint]

Penned an email a week or so ago to the club in an attempt to uncover a bit more about some of the away allocation decisions which have seemed bizarre of late and also the situation with this 'away fans fund'. The response is below.

 

Selecting the appropriate allocation for away tickets is a decision that is not taken lightly for any game, and one into which a lot of thought and consideration are placed. For each game, we assess a number of criteria, many of which are fairly obvious such as the day/date of the fixture, travel time from Southampton, previous attendances at that ground etc.

 

 

 

To address the matches that you have outlined below, the allocation options were some distance apart. Given the limited options for segregation at the Away Clubs, we are unable to reserve the option to 'call off' the additional tickets should sales progress fairly well due to the limited number of tickets they have to sell to the home supporters, and their need to adhere to their own advertised sales criteria. For last year's game at Manchester City for example, we were left with several hundred unsold tickets, the cost of which was borne by the Club. Over the course of the season, selecting options which causes a repeat of this can lead to a considerable loss of revenue for us as a business.

 

 

 

Using Manchester United as an example, given the speed at which the tickets sold, we do not believe that we would have been able to sell all of the additional tickets on General Sale for this game, an opinion which is supported by the amount of tickets sold when the game reached General Sale in the 2012/13 season. In this instance, we are confident that the correct decision was made as to which allocation was opted for. Contrasting that with the West Bromwich Albion game, and the fact that historically the first away game of the season sells better than other comparable fixtures, we opted for the larger allocation based on the sales figures from last year, again a decision we feel was vindicated by the speed of the sales.

 

 

 

We try to be as flexible as possible when it comes to offering and obtaining away allocations, and the decision not to disclose allocation figures reflects that these numbers can change dramatically during the course of a sale for an away game, and would quickly lead to the information offered being outdated and incorrect.

 

Whatever happened to 'initial allocations'?!

[kwsaint]

Penned an email a week or so ago to the club in an attempt to uncover a bit more about some of the away allocation decisions which have seemed bizarre of late and also the situation with this 'away fans fund'. The response is below.

 

Selecting the appropriate allocation for away tickets is a decision that is not taken lightly for any game, and one into which a lot of thought and consideration are placed. For each game, we assess a number of criteria, many of which are fairly obvious such as the day/date of the fixture, travel time from Southampton, previous attendances at that ground etc.

 

 

 

To address the matches that you have outlined below, the allocation options were some distance apart. Given the limited options for segregation at the Away Clubs, we are unable to reserve the option to 'call off' the additional tickets should sales progress fairly well due to the limited number of tickets they have to sell to the home supporters, and their need to adhere to their own advertised sales criteria. For last year's game at Manchester City for example, we were left with several hundred unsold tickets, the cost of which was borne by the Club. Over the course of the season, selecting options which causes a repeat of this can lead to a considerable loss of revenue for us as a business.

 

 

 

Using Manchester United as an example, given the speed at which the tickets sold, we do not believe that we would have been able to sell all of the additional tickets on General Sale for this game, an opinion which is supported by the amount of tickets sold when the game reached General Sale in the 2012/13 season. In this instance, we are confident that the correct decision was made as to which allocation was opted for. Contrasting that with the West Bromwich Albion game, and the fact that historically the first away game of the season sells better than other comparable fixtures, we opted for the larger allocation based on the sales figures from last year, again a decision we feel was vindicated by the speed of the sales.

 

 

 

We try to be as flexible as possible when it comes to offering and obtaining away allocations, and the decision not to disclose allocation figures reflects that these numbers can change dramatically during the course of a sale for an away game, and would quickly lead to the information offered being outdated and incorrect.

 

Whatever happened to 'initial allocations'?!

 

Tbh they do have a fair point in the fact that they don't want to go for a larger allocation as I suppose they are buying the tickets off the opponent and then just recouping the money when they sell them to us. In answer to your question, I assume the speed in which tickets sell nowadays, other clubs can't afford to put aside a couple of thousand seats just in case we sell all our allocation and want more. I agree though it is annoying but something that, nowadays, we have to accept.

[BedfordSaint]

Sorry, managed to miss out the last bit!

 

I can advise that the Away Supporters initiative was set up for Clubs to use to improve the experience offered to visiting fans. This could be used either for our supporters travelling to other Clubs, or supporters visiting us. Currently Southampton Football Club have put money into improving the Away fans concourse areas and are providing supporters with a Family Fun Day as part of the Fulham match day experience. We are still looking into further options for this, when decisions are made they will be announced on our website.

 

 

 

We do try to listen to the opinions of fans, particularly surrounding areas that provoke as much debate as away ticketing does, and your comments have been noted and logged.

 

Yeah I'd agree with that, seems to be a few strange examples though such as Norwich where I believe we only requested around 1,200 despite taking around double that on that horrendous March afternoon last season!

[Graffito]

If they are not going use the Away Supporters Initiative to subsidise away tickets or travel for Saints fans, they could substitute a policy of taking full allocations for away matches for the current arrangement which appears to rely on the judgement of some anonymous bod in the ticket office, and use the Away Supporters initiative money to cover the cost of any unsold tickets. Using that money, any of it, for the benefit of away supporters to SMS is an insult.

[Saints foreva]

Sorry, managed to miss out the last bit!

 

I can advise that the Away Supporters initiative was set up for Clubs to use to improve the experience offered to visiting fans. This could be used either for our supporters travelling to other Clubs, or supporters visiting us. Currently Southampton Football Club have put money into improving the Away fans concourse areas and are providing supporters with a Family Fun Day as part of the Fulham match day experience. We are still looking into further options for this, when decisions are made they will be announced on our website.

 

 

 

We do try to listen to the opinions of fans, particularly surrounding areas that provoke as much debate as away ticketing does, and your comments have been noted and logged.

 

I really don't understand why the club give a **** about the match day experience offered to away fans at St. Mary's.

[BedfordSaint]

I can understand them caring about it to a certain degree, but the fact they've chosen to improve it further instead of rewarding their own supporters is downright insulting.

[Sour Mash]

Last post on this thread from Steve Grant explains the situation better http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?47011-Stoke&p=1806935#post1806935

[saints_is_the_south]

That reply is virtually word for word the same received earlier in the season after we took a smaller allocation for Norwich. They've a point and it was a fair answer I felt.

 

What I am more interested in now is this £200K away fund, and why the club feel it was appropriate to spend it on decorating the away end at St Mary's and on the fun fair ******** against Fulham (I struggle believe that the two combined cost them anywhere near £200K either). I believe every other club in the PL is using it to reduce ticket and/or travel costs for their own supporters. To me the way SFC have used this money is unacceptable, and quite frankly a disgusting insult to those that travel the length and breadth of the country following the club. I feel at the very least we deserve an explanation for this.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If they are not going use the Away Supporters Initiative to subsidise away tickets or travel for Saints fans, they could substitute a policy of taking full allocations for away matches for the current arrangement which appears to rely on the judgement of some anonymous bod in the ticket office, and use the Away Supporters initiative money to cover the cost of any unsold tickets. i

 

I thought this, but can understand the club's stance. If they spunked all the money on stoke away, although no better than decorating the away end, people would soon be moaning. I've been going away for years and did 9 last year and even I was surprised at the demand for Norwich and Chelsea in particular, so can understand the ticket office misjudging it. I would think anyone making the decision would tread on the line of caution and **** the fans off rather than Nicola or his henchmen.

 

They do seem to have a hang up over the man city game from last year. They dont seem able to see past that, had it not been 4pm on a Sunday , we'd have sold out easy.

[M271]

'Using Manchester United as an example, given the speed at which the tickets sold, we do not believe that we would have been able to sell all of the additional tickets on General Sale for this game, an opinion which is supported by the amount of tickets sold when the game reached General Sale in the 2012/13 season'They shouldn't use last seasons Manchester United game as a comparative example as it was on a Tuesday Evening at the end of January not a Saturday in October. They don't seem to be using this criteria very well:

'Selecting the appropriate allocation for away tickets is a decision that is not taken lightly for any game, and one into which a lot of thought and consideration are placed. For each game, we assess a number of criteria, many of which are fairly obvious such as the day/date of the fixture, travel time from Southampton, previous attendances at that ground etc.'

[Saint Lindford]

The ticket office seem to be using cut and paste as I received almost the exact same response yesterday to e-mail I sent the ticket office asking about away allocations etc. The last part of the reply to my e-mail was regarding the Loyalty Points scheme...

 

Regarding Loyalty Points, we can advise that this is currently in development, as soon as we have any further information this will be advertised on our website.

 

Blimey, how long does the development of a simple scheme take?

[Saint Garrett]

If it was me, I'd just take a couple of quid off the ten furthest away games. Let's say 2,500x10=25,000x8=200,000.

 

So the club could have reduced the ticket prices by 8 quid each for these games. Instead they've painted the away end. Brilliant.

 

(This assumes an allocation of 2500 for all away games)

[JRM]

let's be honest , they don't give a shlt about travelling saints fans and just see us as an inconvenience who they want to sell as few tickets as possible to, regardless of how the support gives the team a lift at away games.

 

they've outsourced the travel club if they could they'd do the same with away tickets they would

[JRM]

the point about loyalty points has been a running joke since they launched it.

 

for away games ticket sales goes to season ticket holders with x number of away games then down to just season ticket holders , then general sale, surely after season ticket holders it should be non-season ticket holders with x number of away games to give priority to those who go regularly but don't have a season ticket ahead of someone who hasn't been all season

[Sour Mash]

Tbh they do have a fair point in the fact that they don't want to go for a larger allocation as I suppose they are buying the tickets off the opponent and then just recouping the money when they sell them to us. In answer to your question, I assume the speed in which tickets sell nowadays, other clubs can't afford to put aside a couple of thousand seats just in case we sell all our allocation and want more. I agree though it is annoying but something that, nowadays, we have to accept.

They don't have a fair point if you go by what is in this season's PRemier LEague Handbook, which states:

 

"The visiting club have to pay for all of the tickets requested in that allocation, with the following caveats:

1. if the visiting club fully sells out all except the final seating block, they do NOT have to pay for any unsold tickets in that final seating block;

2. if the visiting club wishes to return an entire block of tickets, they must do so at least 10 days before the game, and if the home club cannot sell them, the visiting club must pay for that block of tickets (with the price determined based on the ratio of adult:concession tickets actually sold by the visiting club)."

[100%Red&White]

With regards the ' Away Supporters Fund' is any other club using it to benefit visiting fans and not their own travelling supporters?

 

To me it just further proves they don't want Saints fans putting money into another club's pocket thinking it will instead be spent at St Mary's. At the same time encouraging away fans to visit SMS which does boast SFC's finances.

 

The numbers of travelling support raises a club's profile and kudos. This is one area of this new era I can't understand and have a gripe with.

[trousers]

They don't have a fair point if you go by what is in this season's PRemier LEague Handbook, which states:

 

"The visiting club have to pay for all of the tickets requested in that allocation, with the following caveats:

1. if the visiting club fully sells out all except the final seating block, they do NOT have to pay for any unsold tickets in that final seating block;

2. if the visiting club wishes to return an entire block of tickets, they must do so at least 10 days before the game, and if the home club cannot sell them, the visiting club must pay for that block of tickets (with the price determined based on the ratio of adult:concession tickets actually sold by the visiting club)."

 

So, if I'm reading that correctly, as long as we sell one ticket in the final block the club doesn't have to pay for the rest of the unused block?

 

In other words, and for example, if there are 2 blocks each with 1000 seats and we only sell 950 tickets, it would be cheaper for the club to buy a further 51 tickets itself to avoid having to pay for the unsold block?

[stevegrant]

So, if I'm reading that correctly, as long as we sell one ticket in the final block the club doesn't have to pay for the rest of the unused block?

 

In other words, and for example, if there are 2 blocks each with 1000 seats and we only sell 950 tickets, it would be cheaper for the club to buy a further 51 tickets itself to avoid having to pay for the unsold block?

No, in order to not have to pay for the full lot, we would need to sell 50% of the final block.

[sandwichsaint]

If it was me, I'd just take a couple of quid off the ten furthest away games. Let's say 2,500x10=25,000x8=200,000.

 

So the club could have reduced the ticket prices by 8 quid each for these games. Instead they've painted the away end. Brilliant.

 

(This assumes an allocation of 2500 for all away games)

 

:lol:

 

We have already turned down this size of allocation for Chelsea and Man Utd.

 

We will probably ask for less than this for Palace, Cardiff, Villa, Fulham,

 

all games where we could have sold 2500.

[Griffo]

Chelsea we would have sold 3,000 for if it was Saturday and not on TV. Man Utd was a sell out was it not? Bar about 400 seats to the left of the away end. Palace we will take the maximum allocation which is 2,500 I believe. Cardiff only give 2,000 I think which we will take close to on Boxing Day. Villa we will hopefully get the 3,000 again and should sell out as long as it stays Saturday 3pm. At Fulham we will sell out the maximum allocation again too.

[JackanorySFC]

What email have you used. Won't make a tiny bit of difference but I'm going to complain about the away supporters fun. I suggest as many people do as possible, the odd voice here and there will be ignored, if we do it on our hundreds then maybe, just maybe, we'll get an explanation.

[BedfordSaint]

Customerservices@saintsfc.co.uk

[Saint Garrett]

:lol:

 

We have already turned down this size of allocation for Chelsea and Man Utd.

 

We will probably ask for less than this for Palace, Cardiff, Villa, Fulham,

 

all games where we could have sold 2500.

 

Well the less tickets we have over the season, the more could have been knocked off per ticket. No brainer to me....

 

If we took an average of 2000 to every game...lets say £200k goes between 20000 (10*2000).....thats £10 off per ticket per game on average.

[JackanorySFC]

Customerservices@saintsfc.co.uk

 

Cheers, will get on that now

[Horley CTFC Saint]

Tbh they do have a fair point in the fact that they don't want to go for a larger allocation as I suppose they are buying the tickets off the opponent and then just recouping the money when they sell them to us. In answer to your question, I assume the speed in which tickets sell nowadays, other clubs can't afford to put aside a couple of thousand seats just in case we sell all our allocation and want more. I agree though it is annoying but something that, nowadays, we have to accept.

They pretty much always sell out before general sale - for any match south of Brum. Given the number of fans we have who are not season ticket holders I would have thought that for these games at least they should be taking the full allocation for

[Saint George]

I think the whole away thing, including the 200k would be a different story if St Mary's had been a sell out for every home game so far this season......That's the root of the issues I'm sure

[Saint Garrett]

I think the whole away thing, including the 200k would be a different story if St Mary's had been a sell out for every home game so far this season......That's the root of the issues I'm sure

 

It's got nothing to do with home games though. We could have 10k at home games, and still sell out aways before on general sale. The money is supposedly to reward our own fans who travel the country spending an awful lot of money watching us play.

 

Travel prices are going up, as are plenty of others, to go and watch us play Newcastle it's a good £200 weekend atleast.

[70's Mike]

With regards the ' Away Supporters Fund' is any other club using it to benefit visiting fans and not their own travelling supporters?

 

To me it just further proves they don't want Saints fans putting money into another club's pocket thinking it will instead be spent at St Mary's. At the same time encouraging away fans to visit SMS which does boast SFC's finances.

 

The numbers of travelling support raises a club's profile and kudos. This is one area of this new era I can't understand and have a gripe with.

 

Agreed

[Saint George]

What part of "the Away Supporters initiative was set up for Clubs to use to improve the experience offered to visiting fans. This could be used either for our supporters travelling to other Clubs, or supporters visiting us" don't you understand?

 

If SMS was maximizing its revenue potential, there would be a whole lot more room to maneuver when it came to taking a chance on away ticket allocations and subsidizing our away support......and if you think 10k attendances at SMS wouldn't affect the Club's decision making process in any way, don't ever think about going into business, or taking a job that involves any kind of fiscal reasonability.

[Bearsy]

The numbers of travelling support raises a club's profile and kudos.

 

Surely not as much as having the best painted away concourses in Europe?

 

On the other hand i wonder if a good away support helps the team. You'd like to think so. Dunno how I'd find out tho really, maybe comparing if our away results is better than Portsmouth?

[100%Red&White]

What part of "the Away Supporters initiative was set up for Clubs to use to improve the experience offered to visiting fans. This could be used either for our supporters travelling to other Clubs, or supporters visiting us" don't you understand?

 

I think what's being questioned is that Saints appear to be the only club not using it for the benefit of their own supporters, who, along with the Geordies/Mackems have the most arduous trips on the road.

 

 

 

Surely not as much as having the best painted away concourses in Europe?

 

Well, when you put it like that

[70's Mike]

Surely not as much as having the best painted away concourses in Europe?

 

On the other hand i wonder if a good away support helps the team. You'd like to think so. Dunno how I'd find out tho really, maybe comparing if our away results is better than Portsmouth?

 

will be having first class catering and a radio station next, and an insurance company

[Sour Mash]

It's got nothing to do with home games though. We could have 10k at home games, and still sell out aways before on general sale. The money is supposedly to reward our own fans who travel the country spending an awful lot of money watching us play.

 

Travel prices are going up, as are plenty of others, to go and watch us play Newcastle it's a good £200 weekend atleast.

Maybe not the £200k, but I think the not taking full allocations at away games is linked to home games not selling out. If fans pickand choose games, the clubwould much rather they chose a home game, then say Man Utd or Liverpool away, which may have been the fan's first choice, but as they couldn't get tickets for either of those, they do Hull at home instead (for example.).

[The9]

So they based some of this year's allocation decisions on the Man United game last season going on general sale?

 

The one that was midweek, in Manchester, in January? And another for a match against City which was live on Sky on a Sunday during the summer holidays and cost £53 a ticket after booking fee?

 

Genius.

 

As an aside to the general uselessness of the website nowadays, which is basically not worth going to other than for away ticket news, I went to 10 away matches last season and didn't even know the Chelsea tickets had been announced by the time they'd sold out.